That is a great example of microclimates JoJo! The time spent at the minimum temperature (minutes, hours, days) plays a big role in what temperatures a plant can survive. So does the amount of water in the plant, and in the soil. Dry plants are much more tolerant of cold compared to wet plants. Plants in the ground can survive colder temperatures than plants in pots. I have found most of my plants can tolerate much lower temperatures than typically listed. These lows are brief, just a few hours at most, and it's at least 20 degrees warmer during the day. So plants that are supposed to not go below the mid-thirties F can tolerate minimum temperatures in the high twenties. Agave ferdinand-regis is listed at both +5, and -12 in the list above. The difference between a minimum average temperature, absolute minimum temperature, and Fahrenheit and Celsius scales is often confused. Minimum temperature listings should be regarded with great suspicion, even when coming from a more or less credible source like Desert-Tropicals. It is better to research the plants natural environmental conditions. I would not give much credence to this, or any other so called 'minimum temperature' list. There are too many variables for these to be accurate to any degree. ;) Brad

Hi Osprey, I'd go for this; as before, approxomate with a lot of overlap: By order of decreasing heat tolerance, approx: Abies cilicica Abies numidica Abies nebrodensis Abies pinsapo Abies cephalonica Abies bornmuelleriana (= Abies equi-trojani) Abies borisii-regis Order of fastest growth rate is approx reverse of heat tolerance By order of decreasing cone size: Abies cilicica (12-25cm) Abies cephalonica (11-21cm) Abies borisii-regis (11-21cm) Abies numidica (10-20cm) Abies bornmuelleriana (= Abies equi-trojani) (10-20cm) Abies pinsapo (10-17cm; to 20cm in A. pinsapo var. marocana) Abies nebrodensis (10-16cm) Resin

Hi David, I got them from all over, anyone who I could find who had them. I am in the interior of Southern California. I do have very high summer temps. I hope I didn't waste my time and money searching and for them specifically because I was told that my best bet was Firma grafts and that they would not even be a sure thing. I have A. Koreana, A. Lasiocarpa, A. Procera, A. Pinsapo, and A. Squamata on Firma. All are doing well except for the few defoilated shrivelled limbs on my Icebreaker's I was asking about (pic 2, but I will wait to see what those limbs end up doing as per Ken's recommendation) and my A. Procera's, they just do not like the heat. One blaue hexe died within a week or two, the other I still have but it is struggling, and I have an A. Procera Sherwoodi that is also struggling. A. Squamata and A. Lasiocarpa are both doing the best with no defoliation signs of stress at all. Anything I did try that was not on Turkish or Firma have died :( If they were on Balsam they were the first to go. When can I buy some of the species you mentioned on their own roots? Almost everywhere I know of sell grafts. I have a P. Parviflora that I received as gift plant, I was told it would not survive in my climate but it was free so I figured why not see what happens, and it is now also flushing :) That gives me hope and I may buy more :) I have a Picea Bicolor and Picea Blue Cloak. They were not what I intended to buy and they have not started to flush yet. I was told Spruces will not survive here so they are a whole nuther experiment, we shall see. Plantkiller, LOL yes it is due to lots and lots and lots of obsessively reading GW and asking lots of questions to lots of others who know more than me!

Hi all, this group of Abies has a wide range, with very different climates. I would like to react on the idea of grouping A. chensiensis, A. recurvata, A. ernestii and A. salouensis into one single species. They certainly have a common ancestor but have evolved separately. In reference to the types of each species, each spécies has individual characters that separate them. But it must be understood that these characters are not fixed like a statue, and that there are meeting areas. For example, in southern Gansu, in northern Yunnan and in C. Sichuan, and in these places, intermediate forms are sometimes difficult to classify in one or the other species. In the type locality of a species the taxa are very characteristic and the further away we are the more we find variations. It is therefore normal that the trees we grow are not always as characteristic as those described in the books. The authors of the descriptions often had only herbarium specimens at their disposal. The original descriptions represent only a moment T of the life of a plant. They do not reflect all the variation of a species. Here is an example of two-year variations of an original Abies recurvata from the type locality, min river valley, south of Songpan city, Sichuan.