I have spoken to others and your opinion is definitely in the minority. I've gotten the opinion of a contractor as well as a relative who is an attorney.

Well now go get a third opinion from another independent attorney and see what they say, because for the life of me, I can't figure out what damages you are trying to collect. Please report back if your next attorney, the one you actually pay, tells you something different.

ETA: I know this is going to be a bit dismissive, but the opinion of the contractor is largely irrelevant. Unless he also happens to have some tort experience.

This company was in breach of contract when they initially saw sogns of mold and covered over it. Their contract specifically calls out the protocol for unexpected situations when floors or walls are removed and mold was a specific example. I dont claim to have damages caised by them but i want compensated in the form some type of refund

Also, the mold specialist said it will take three days for them to complete the remediation process and we should not be in the house. so my family has to stay im a hotel during that time.

Add to the fact that this was unexpected so i did not have time to make a temporary kitchen therefore, we must order takeout to feed my family.

this is not a functional kitchen

They should cover your nights in the hotel, and give you a meal voucher. But beyond covering some unexpected expenses, and making you whole, you are not due punishment funds. That would be wrong.

You still need to pay for the end result that you wanted, and that will be achieved. You just shouldnt pay any of the extra issues due to problems. That’s a fair expectation. Getting a reduction in the original contract fee, when they are actually being conscientious and doing way more work than had to do here, that’s is not fair. They are already losing money.

It is not fair to ask them to bleed a little more just because you want to punish them. They could have blown you off completely, and many contractors would have. Be thankful that they are not. Drink some wine. Take a walk. Get your temper under control.

This company was in breach of contract when they initially saw sogns of mold and covered over it. Their contract specifically calls out the protocol for unexpected situations when floors or walls are removed and mold was a specific example.

You can't claim a material breach of a contract because someone started to do something and stopped. This is tantamount to saying UPS is in breach of contract if their driver takes a wrong turn. That is simply not how a material breach of contract works. However, whether it was breach of contract as you say, or negligence as I would argue... what are your damages? The amount you pay for a hotel? That isn't even worth the fight.

Feel free to ask for a discount, there is no harm in asking. However, in my opinion this isn't even worth a serious risk of a mechanic's lien.

From almost 20 years of reading this forum, I'd say you're lucky just to get them to solve the issue and complete the work. Posters aren't usually wanting to get compensation, they're usually pulling their hair out just to get their contractor to finish a job once it's gone south.

Also from many years reading this forum, I trust bry911's advice. They know of what they speak, without bias or emotion that often clouds others opinions.

I'm not sure if what I am describing is intentionally being mis-read or ignored. Once again, I am not upset the job is taking longer than expected. I'll try to explain in more simple terms.

1. Per the contract that I signed, it states that if the contractor sees indications of mold, they will stop the job, meet with us and we will sign a change order for the work that needs done to remedy the situation. THAT WAS NEVER DONE. They proceeded to install flooring on a sub-floor with indications of mold.

2. My kitchen was completed to the point we had the final walk through and put together a punchlist. One of the items on the punchlist was to remove approximately 4 planks because the measurements of how they were placed were off.

3. When they pulled up the planks, one of the contractors saw indications of mold on the sub-floor (same sub-floor location) and was going to install new flooring on that section until the second contractor stopped him and called quality control.

4. The mold specialist came and they pulled more planks and saw indications of mold on the sub-floor so they now have to re-do the entire job and pull out lower cabinets and island.

5. while meeting with the general manager yesterday, my husband pulled up pictures we took of the progress of the work and we found a picture of the subfloor and when the general manager zoomed in, he verified that it was evident that there were indications of possible mold. He stated that his contractor should have stopped the job at that point and we should have met to discuss remediation and implment a change order.

Explain how that is not breach of contract if they didn't do what their contract states they will do? The only reason we are even aware that there was mold was because luckily our punch list contained an item that caused them to expose part of the sub-floor.

They are fulfilling the contract by taking this on and repairing it, and restoring you to wholeness. That is what you are due. You are not due *more* than that. But thats what you have your hand out for.

It’s you who want to breach the contract and adjust the compensation after the fact. They‘ve lost every bit of profit they made off of this job and 4-6 others besides, in order to do the right thing. And you still want more more blood and to punish them for having integrity. That is outrageously unfair and greedy to even suggest. It isn’t a very attractive peek into who you are.

If the original contractor finishes the work to the specs of the original contract, regardless of the bumps in the road, you owe him the agreed upon sum and have suffered no damages.

You can't base anything on the speculation they were covering something up. The fact that they stopped, called in a mold inspector, will mitigate the damage and repair accordingly, means you did not suffer damages. Inconvenience is not damages.

The GM has addressed your concerns and has responded to them. Just because it didn't go as smoothly as you desired doesn't change the fact you will have a fully functioning kitchen, with the finishes of your choice, as the end result.

I hope you obtained a signed a waiver with each payment and get a final on the job, if the GM doesn't pay the subs for their work (regardless of how poor the quality) you could find yourself with a lien.

There is no breach of contract! Not sure how many experts and attorneys on this forum need to tell you that.

Even if your contract had language that "Contractor will lay the floor on non-wet subfloor", in order to have a breach of that language, you'd have to prove that the subcontractor knew that the floors were damp when he installed the floor. You'll never be able to prove that. Just because there is now evidence of damp floors doesn't mean there was any evidence when they installed the floors. It is totally within the realm of reasonable possibilities that there was no evidence of dampness back then. So once and for all, we are quashing your aspirations of a breach of contract.

Rather, the facts suggest that the first time anyone learned of the moist floor was THIS WEEK. Your contractor is immediately taking steps to remedy the situation, as is their right under contract law.

You will be entitled for any out of pocket costs -- hotel, meals, mold remediation (if you pay for it - so long as the costs were reasonable), other damage to your house. But courts are loath to award punitive damages - especially where, as here, there is no evidence to suggest that the contractor knew or should have known about the damp floor.

I know this isn't what you want to hear. But think about it from the contractor's perspective. What if they really didn't know about the damp floor in the spring, and what if there was no reason for him to have known? So he installs a floor and does a good job. And then, through his own diligence follow up, finds out the floor is wet and is now immediately and quickly attempting to remedy the situation for you, at his own cost. Wouldn't the legal system be messed up if we said not only did he have to pay for the remediation, but he also needed to pay punitive damages?

Explain how that is not breach of contract if they didn't do what their contract states they will do? The only reason we are even aware that there was mold was because luckily our punch list contained an item that caused them to expose part of the sub-floor.

In your original post, the first time you mention that the mold was discovered was on August 30th... Go back and read your OP and see when you said mold was discovered. Now you suddenly have evidence that the mold was there all along...

I am not misreading your post although you seem to be ignoring mine. Which is fine, I am only trying to help you out. Please feel free to ignore it if you want, but I am going to say it again in all caps so you can see how important it is.

IT COULDN'T MATTER ANY LESS IF THEY BREACHED THE CONTRACT OR NOT.

What is the advantage of them breaching. If you breach them, you then have the right to go out and find someone else to perform the work and then try to collect that money from the original company. You could also stop all work and renegotiate a new contract with this company but then you are largely releasing them from the old contract. You can't simultaneously claim a breach and then demand they honor the contract. There is no advantage to a claim they breached.

Furthermore, that is actually the more limiting theory of the case. A better theory is that the contractor was negligent in his duty of due care. If you were to present the argument in court that the contractor didn't stop, my counter-argument would be that the contract is still being executed in a reasonable time frame for a remodel. You are just at the six month mark and the contractor did stop work and is repairing at his expense within a reasonable time frame for a remodel. Although, it could and should have been avoided by the contractor he is remedying it at his expense. You are not materially damaged by it.

I would have a much more difficult time defending against the idea that the contractor shouldn't have used the boards in the first place if their was mold on them. E.g. rather than arguing a breach of the contract, argue that he had a duty of due care which he neglected but still...

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THE PROBLEM ISN'T AND NEVER HAS BEEN WHETHER OR NOT THEY BREACHED. Suppose I went to court and won this case, which doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Then the court would award you a few nights in a hotel room and a few bucks for dinners and that is likely all. Then you could pay the five figures in attorney fees and you and you can walk away knowing that for only a five figure investment you got an $800 discount.

If this had been dragging on for multiple years then you might have a remote shot at some meaningful recovery, but you simply aren't out anything other than a perfectly reasonable amount of inconvenience for a kitchen remodel.

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There are people on these forums who have paid their contractor $75,000 of a $100,000 remodel, only have half the work done badly by a contractor they haven't seen in months. They go see and attorney who then tells them that it just isn't worth the effort to sue. So they end up paying another $75,000 to get it finished and they never recover.

I know it seems like this is a tragedy to you and you are upset, but as frustrating as it is, I promise you that most of the people who come here in similar situations are much worse off. Most will never get right. You have a contractor who isn't shifting blame and who is being responsible, put their name out here, if they are within 100 miles of me I will pay extra money to have them do my home.

Everyone's opinion here is just that.....an opinion. We all have them. I will gladly report back with an update on how this ends up working out.

And to the poster who asked how I have evidence that the mold was there prior to August 30th? Like I said above, my husband went through pictures he took when they were at the stage where we only had a sub-floor and the GM zoomed in to that area and stated that he could tell from the picture that there were indications of mold and his contractor should have easily spotted that when they initially removed the floor. THAT'S HOW I HAVE EVIDENCE.

I like the last post and agree.

- For the benefit of the doubt, let's say there is a direct breach of the contract. That there is proof they saw mold in the spring and did not stop. Directly in violation of the express provision of the contract. Legal result: You get paid your damages to make you whole. Courts almost never require punitive damages (ie., damages not just to make you whole but also to punish the other side). They would never have punitive damages in a small case like this, where he's still on a reasonable timeline and trying to make good. In short, breach of contract or not, there are no damages to be paid here.

- But as I said, there's zero evidence of a breach of contract.

- You should also go back to the contract and read the damages provisions. Are their liquidated damages? Does it carve out indirect damages?

Okay, i revise my last post that there's no evidence of mold. Then see my first bullet in my last post: There's a clear breach of contract. You get hotel room damages. Congrats!

Also - these aren't opinions.

Bottom line...you are generally not entitled to compensation for inconvenience, as frustrating as that is.

On another note, why does the cabinet to the left of your sink look like an inset design and not a full-overlay like the rest of the cabinets? Also, they should change out the outlet in the island for a darker option.

It most certainly is an opinion because 1. you don't have the contract in front of you and 2. you don't have access to the supporting evidence I have or a detailed list of all that has transpired. I've provided a cliff notes version. You don't know what state I live in and what the laws are.

So yes, these are all opinions.

This is what Kristin Petro is referring to. The blue circled cabinet door appears to be inset, and the red circled door (like the rest of your kitchen) is overlay.

Because it's a base lazy susan and had to be based on the way it functions.

Why do you continue on here belligerently asserting your position without listening to any of the clearly knowledgeable people who are trying to help you? You are berating those who have tried to be constructive and respond to your initial post. You don't want anyone else's opinion, just a validation of your own. Fine. If you are so sure you are correct, get off this forum and find an attorney who agrees with you. You haven't found one here (and I am another attorney who will tell you you're wrong), so perhaps it's time to move on.

Everyone's opinion here is just that.....an opinion. We all have them. I will gladly report back with an update on how this ends up working out.

There is a difference between an opinion and a calculation. What are your damages? Can you calculate your damages? If you can't, then who do you expect to calculate your damages for you?

From the beginning of this thread I have simply asked you to explain your damages and you have failed to thus far. You show pictures of your kitchen and explain the problem again and again, but what amount of financial compensation are you asking for and how did you arrive at that number?

OP you should be happy that the company is making this right. After all the horror stories I have read on here over the years, you clearly don't realize how well off you are.

I guess to answer your question "Am I wrong for wanting compensation?" No, you are not wrong for wanting it but you are wrong to expect it. Does your contract prescribe a remedy for if it is breached? Does it state you will get a refund or discount? If not, then you cannot apply an arbitrary discount to make yourself feel better about the inconvenience. I think this is the argument that is mostly being made here. You may be right that the contract was breached, but you are not right to assume you should be awarded monetary compensation for it, unless that amount is spelled out in the contract. It's frustrating but it is pretty much standard in this industry where delays happen often for a variety of reasons.

Why is your newly remodeled house moldy?

@imgmom I'm belligerent? You have to be kidding me. I've clearly stated facts and the course of events that had led up to where we are now. Yes, you all have your opinions and insist on telling me that it could be worse and there are other people who have more devastating experiences.

Ironically, the logistics manager was just here to drop off an industrial HEPA filter and asked if he could speak freely, to which my husband and I said of course :). He said that this is a f**king disaster and in his 6 years at the company they have never came close to having a situation like this where they are so blatantly wrong. He said that my husband and I have handled this exceptionally well and that if this was happening to him, he would have been bashing heads yesterday. He said that his company has daily 7AM and 6PM meetings to discuss our situation because of how bad the entire situation is and they have already fired the first contractor, with potentially more to come. So it doesn't seem like the company is of the opinion that this is no big deal and a mere inconvenience. This is a company that has been in business for over 50 years and has multiple locations in my area, so to hear this tells me I am not being as dramatic, angry and bitter as you all are claiming I am.

This is a company that has been in business for over 50 years and has multiple locations in my area, so to hear this tells me I am not being as dramatic, angry and bitter as you all are claiming I am.

NO ONE HAS MADE ANY SUCH CLAIM! No one has said the company wasn't wrong. No one. We all 100% agree that this was a royal screw up that could have and should have been avoided. Now what are your damages?

No one has said that you can't win. We all agree that you will win. You have every right to have them come in and remediate the mold and repair your house... oh wait, that is what they are doing. So, yes you can force them to do what they are absolutely willing to do already.

@ksc36 My kitchen and dining room is what was newly remodeled, and the mold was found under the sub-floor in an area there. I can not tell you why it was there, the floor was there before we bought the house and this was the first kitchen remodel we did.

@bry911 You seem more vested in this thread than I do, Mr. All Caps. Relax.

You seem more vested in this thread than I do, Mr. All Caps. Relax.

@jdl56 - Well that is absolutely true, because apparently you haven't even read it.

I would like to change my position. I have several contacts in construction litigation if you provide me with your area I will happily provide you with a reference for someone to take your money and will surely do a fantastic job for you.

As I said, OP, you should probably just move on. I can't see what you're getting out of continuing this conversation since you are obviously not interested in anyone else's advice or opinion.

@bry911 thanks for the offer, but I'm good.

@imgmom I never said I wasn't interested in advice or opinions, I'd be ignoring all of the posts if I wasn't interested. I'm merely stating the facts of what has occurred so far.

OP I am very sorry that this happened to you - it sounds like a very unpleasant situation. However everything you have said about this remodeling company is making them sound incredibly professional and trustworthy. Twice daily meetings?? I can only wish that my upcoming remodel is handled by a company that cares about making things right half as much as these guys do! Maybe taking a step back and reassessing what everyone here is unanimously trying to tell you would be helpful.

I agree what a previous poster said.....if the mold had been found and dealt with earlier, the company would have added extra costs for the removal of the mold. They are taking care of the mold, I assume, at no charge to you now. What do you have to complain about???

Think about it as if the mold were termites.....and someone missed seeing the termites. You STILL would have to pay to have the termites treated! It's your house, your termites. The contractor appears to be doing this for you at no charge.

I'm not an attorney, but I think they could certain have billed you for the mold removal if they had wanted to. If you try to push for compensation, don't be surprised if they bill you for the mold removal all the sudden.

"So it doesn't seem like the company is of the opinion that this is no big deal and a mere inconvenience. This is a company that has been in business for over 50 years and has multiple locations in my area, so to hear this tells me I am not being as dramatic, angry and bitter as you all are claiming I am."

No one has stated that. The fact is that they ARE making it right. In addition, they sound pretty concerned with it. I don't know what more you want or what it is you think you are entitled to.

So the wet subfloor and mold was an existing condition when the remodel started.

What was the previous flooring? How did the subfloor get wet? And was that the reason for the remodel?

Since you were living in the house, how did you not notice a wet floor?

What is the total, documented, monetary amount of your DAMAGES. ? In a contract dispute, which this is, you alllege money DAMAGES. You have some, but are they enough to make a big deal about?

As a side note: whatever is causing the mold …. you are probably responsible for fixing that, not the kitchen remodeler. That would be my biggest worry, far outweighing the delay and living with a garage kitchen. I would save the money you are about to spend on an attorney, and use it towards proper mold remediation and prevention of reoccurrence.

Since this thread has come back up... I thought I would throw down a primer on construction damages, settlements, etc. This is going to be too long cause I love to hear the clackity clack of my keyboard... so don't read if you are not interested.

Some definitions that are not nearly complete but are easy and convenient:

Breach of contract: One of the parties in the contract not performing as per the contract.

Breach of duty: One of the parties in the contract not performing as per the law. Breach of duties are a function of statutes and precedent and exist even when not in the contract, some duties can be removed by the contract, but others are very difficult to remove.

Settlement: A subsequent agreement in lieu of other actions when a breach has occurred.

Damages: The cost of the breach to the non breaching party. There are six types of tort damages but it is often easier to break them down into three different levels of difficulty to collect. Costs that actually incurred in spending or loss of value. Next, time, health (mental and physical), and opportunity that you lost because of the breach. Finally, punitive damages that are used to punish.

In any breach you have the right to be put into the position you reasonably would have been in without the breach. This can get complicated so let's look at an example (completely unrelated to the OP) of how this might happen.

Scenario 1: Suppose I paid $50,000 for a new kitchen and during the process the contractor took an action that caused mold to grow. I contact a new company and ask them for an estimate to fix the problem. The new company charges $5,000 to remove the old work, $10,000 to remediate the mold, and $30,000 to replace the kitchen. Suppose I also have to pay $1,000 for a hotel while the mold is remediated (let's assume that is reasonable).

I have a strong action for $46,000. Since they failed to take reasonable precautions to prevent mold, they are responsible for all the costs.

Scenario 2: Suppose the same facts as above but instead of causing the mold to grow they ignored existing mold growth. I would then have a strong action for $35,000. While I would be able to recover the cost of removal and replacement, the mold remediation and hotel are not marginal costs and I would have had to pay them had they not ignored it. Since those costs were things I would have had to pay if they had not breached, those are things I still have to pay.

Scenario 2a: Same as scenario 2 but now the company offers to do the work themselves and pay for the mold remediation. That is obviously a settlement and it would preclude any other action against them. I can't accept their solution and then turn around and sue them for it. The best way to preserve my right to sue is to not let them fix it, but then I would have to pay a different company to fix it, then sue the original company, and still probably be out the $10,000 for remediation.

Time is valuable and the loss of a kitchen is valuable, but only if the remodel and correction take an amount of time well outside of reasonable. If I am only losing my kitchen for a couple of months, then losing it again for a couple of more months later, I am not likely to recover for the inconvenience. However, if I noted "time is of the essence." in the original contract then part of the value I was paying for originally was fast completion and I would have a reasonable action for being compensated because of the delay.

However, let's go back to Scenario 2a and assume I also had a time is of the essence clause. The settlement would preclude me from pursuing compensation for their violation of the time is of the essence clause because they have settled for all of the previous breach.

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I hope this helps anyone seeing this in the future...

On a personal rant, this is why there are so many bad contractors out there. Because the OP is likely going to demand a discount, the company is going to give them one because they care more about their reputation than being right. Meanwhile, the homeowner isn't going to write a good review and these actions which show an incredible amount of integrity are just going to go to waste. Meanwhile, someone screwing customers over left and right is paying for good reviews and taking business away from the good contractor.

The typical remedy for breach of a contract is that the breaching party need to "un-breach" it. So if I breach a contract by not paying, I need to pay. If a contractor breaches a contract by doing crappy work, they have to replace it with non-crappy work.

Sometimes companies throw in an extra discount if a customer was inconvenienced, but I'd be very surprised if your contract provided for that. In fact, it's much more likely that your contract has language that specifically excludes indirect, consequential, and punitive damages.

I would never try to punish a contractor that was trying to fix a mess that he/she caused or overlooked. They're doing the right thing, and unfortunately the lengths that they are going to to un-breach their contract are rare in construction. Count your blessings.

@jdl56,

I'm sorry for your experience. I understand that you have been inconvenienced and may have also incurred some additional expense due to the contractor's failure to address a problem in a more timely fashion. What's not clear is whether the root cause of the problem is your contractor's fault.

It appears that your contractor is making a good-faith effort to remedy the issue, presumably at no additional cost to you. That's not the typical experience of houzzers. I think you've got a good contractor and I think they're doing what they can to make it right. I suggest you go with the flow and applaud their efforts to correct the problem, even if it's resulted in some inconvenience to you and your family. You're likely to get more from that approach than from an adversarial one.

You're likely to get more from that approach than from an adversarial one.

I agree!

UPDATE: The CFO and GM of the company met with my husband and I on Friday for a settlement meeting and this was the finalized agreement:

1. Our remaining 10% balance ($5,400) was removed and changed to $0

2. They gave us a check for $30,000

3. Any warranties and guarantees documented on the initial contract still apply

4. They are finishing up the work this Friday

5. We agree to not post bad reviews on social media or websites like BBB, etc.

All this without even threatening a lawsuit or hiring an attorney.

$30K???? Why so much????

The overall project cost was $54,000 we already paid them $48,000. I’m not sure what factors played into them landing on that check amount. They didnt share tuat information

As I noted before... it is a company who actually cares about their reputation and are willing to pay to protect it. Situations like these are really just the cost of doing business, they will just make the money back by spreading the cost to other customers.

Sometimes the screening process for clients goes amiss. When that happens, you’ll pay any amount to sever the relationship.

That's what I was thinking too Magnifico.

I'm sorry - are jdl56 and HU-98401169247 the same person?

@HU-727078151 lol at the fact that you are saying we were bad customers. we have been more than understanding. They started the reno in March and my kitchen is still not finished.

You all would rather blindly try to make us look like the bag guys than acknowledge that this company was wrong.

You’re willing to ignore the fact that this company (unprompted) came to my house proposing to eliminate $35,400 from our total cost just to continue to make me look unreasonable and bad.

Thats ok though….I’ll gladly take my $30k check to the bank without a second thought

And yes this is the OP… for some reason it doesnt show my user nake when i respond from my phone

It sounds like the OP threatened to escalate on social media. essentially financial blackmail for what may or may not have been actionable, but the contractor has probably been down that path before and wants to avoid it. so the rest of us pay more for their unreasonableness.

Nope, I sure did not. Never threatened that or a lawsuit