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Jack and Jill Bathroom Improvements

rr4580
2 months ago

I have teenage girls. Want to make this jack and jill easier for them to use at the same time. No privacy right now, so they can only use 1 at a time. Wanted to keep as much closet space as possible for each girl bedroom. Want to have a private toilet and shower, so that can be in use at same time as another girl is at the sink.

Those of you with teens sharing a bath, what are your thoughts on current floor plan and attached 2 updated ideas?

Please share any ideas and opinions!!! Thanks!


EXISTING FLOOR PLAN:


UPDATED FLOOR PLAN / PRIVATE TOILET MASTERBATH / PRIVATE TOILET J&J BATH

This plan uses closet space from one room and moves closet to new location




ANOTHER IDEA - SPLITS THE MASTER - NEW ENTRANCE TO THE TEEN GIRLS ROOM OFF THE NEW PLAY ROOM SO THAT MASTER AND GIRLS ROOMS FEEL "SPLIT"

ALSO UPDATED J&J BATH




Comments (102)

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    Suzanne,
    Did one of your recent posts get deleted? There was one where you pushed the toilet back one foot and then kept both girls closets in the same location but made them a little smaller?

  • suzanne_m
    last month

    Yes but I can post it again if you like.

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  • suzanne_m
    last month

    Here it is:


  • suzanne_m
    last month

    Here's one where each girl gets a 2nd closet and there is space for the piano.


  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    I feel like this is definitely the master bath plan to go with - it is least intrusive to plumbing, but still gives everything we need.


    I think this JJ plan is good - I like keeping toilet close to same location to save on costs.


  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    Thank you for re posting that bathroom drawing. Seems like lots of doors with 2 closets per girl. But I feel like I’ve been given so many options that will work.

  • suzanne_m
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Please let us know what J&J and closets you will decide. I also would like to know if keeping the toilet in the same vertical line as it is now if it will save money. I think it will but it might have something to do with the joists.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    I still haven't settled on a decision. I'm stressed! I think I'm trying to make my house do things it can't do, WHILE trying to please girls and husband!


    They all love the entrance from the sunroom to the master. I am unsettled about it. I feel like I need the blessing of a professional to be assured about it.


    For the girls bathroom, they want the front living to be large. So need to eliminate that closet for the front bedroom. Trying to really think if your last drawing will work or if that bathroom and the girls now new and narrowed closets would work.


    Could have the middle bedroom closet cut into the new master closet. Just trying to think if sacrificing master closet space is worth all of this jack and jill bathroom idea.

  • suzanne_m
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I don't know if that helps or make it even more confusing but this is what I would probably do.

    - The toilet is moved vertically. Depending on the direction of the joists, it may not be expensive to move.

    - Both girls get the same amount of closet.

    - Both closets are walk-in.

    - You don't lose your 6 ft of closet storage.

    - As a compromise the living room is shorten by 1 ft not 2. But your daugther's bedroom is shorten by 1 ft. It is a matter of where you want to use the space: all in your living room, all in your daughter's bedroom or half-half. Actually, I would use the living room space for your daughter's closet and move the piano beside the tv console.

    - Your master bedroom is in an alcove. I would go for it.


  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    You're saying you would go for this new master entrance, correct?

    My architect is pushing back and I trust her! But she did draw it for me ;-)


    I like that compromise on the closet - half and half in her bedroom and living room.

    I could have a small built in or locker in that small niche in the corner or the living room that is left.

    She could put her tall chest next to the closet, and her desk on the bathroom wall.


  • suzanne_m
    last month
    last modified: last month

    It might not help but I also prefer the entrance of each bedroom to be in the same area (hallway) but I would really listen to everyone (including your architect) and list the pros and cons. If the only con is that you feel it is weird then I would go for the sunroom entrance. It seems that you would have more pros:

    - You please 3 persons in your family (mostly your husband since once the girls are gone, it should no longer affect them). I think it might bother you for a few weeks but then you will get use to it.

    - The bathroom closet is really close to the walk-in closet.

    - The walk-in closet acts as a noise reducer between your bedroom and you daughter's closet.

    - You don't have a long walkway between the entrance and the view of your bedroom.

    - There would be less traffic between the entrance and the closet since there are no 2 doors in that small area.

    - You currently have a direct entrance from your bedroom to the sunroom. Is that weird?

  • suzanne_m
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I was thinking that this might be a solution in your laundry room to keep iron board and have a folding station. The compromises would be:

    - less counter top around the sink

    - the dog kennel is below the counter where you fold clothes


    or


  • suzanne_m
    last month

    Out of curiosity, what prompt your architect to offer you the option of the entrance by the sunroom?

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    I love what you did in the laundry room! That is a perfect place for a counter top. Thank you for that.


    The architect offered the option of the entrance by the sunroom when I asked her if there was any way that we could make our master feel more "split" from the girls rooms. They are 12 and 14, and we want them to have fun and be able to talk when they have sleepovers.


    The architect has strongly advised against the sunroom entrance, saying masters are meant to be private and it feels less private off a living area.


    If we keep the entrance off the same hallway as the girls rooms, we will use better sheetrock to reduce sound, and get new solid core doors (we have hollow now).


    So we either keep master where it is, and try sound proofing suggestions, or put entrance in living (which I think we STILL need the sound proofing). What about loud teenagers in the kitchen at 2 am!


  • anj_p
    last month

    I'm just going to beat this dead horse because I keep getting notifications for this thread.

    If you do a 2.5'x8' reach in closet in your daughter's room between your master bedroom and your daughter's bedroom, it will be the best sound proofing you can have. Better doors will also make a huge difference. If you do a reach in, it has the added bonus of giving your daughter MORE closet space than she currently has by a long shot, and opens up the possibilities in your J&J bathroom. She currently has about 5 feet of closet space. She could have 8'. (The same goes with the other bedroom - making that walk in a reach-in will give you more closet space: 7' to 8'). Square footage in closets is meaningless. Walk-ins aren't automatically bigger or better than reach-ins. The only thing that really matters is wall space for storage.

    I agree with your architect that the entrance to the master bedroom through the more public space is not ideal.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    I currently have a direct entrance from my bedroom to the sunroom (which is an old enclosed patio), they are old sliding glass doors. We are getting rid of that. Sheetrock to make normal walls, and floating the sunroom floors to become part of the house. It will no longer feel like an enclosed patio room. We currently have permanent drapes covering the sliding glass doors, and never use that as an entrance to the master. We have it covered up and blocked off.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    Suzanne,

    Since you are active on this site, I'm curious if you have an idea on the general concencus of a tub with shower or no tub/walk in shower for jack and jill baths?


    Also, wondering if you have any thoughts for me - if I leave girls existing closets as is ... any way to use girls existing bathroom to get any private tub/shower/toilet areas (even if it means moving ALL the plumbing?)

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    Was thinking - could move toilet to existing "linen" area, have a more private toilet area that way. Doesn't solve a private shower area, but at least something to make the bathroom more "shareable" within the current walls.


    We are just really struggling (STILL!) with moving girls closets to sacrifice living or bedroom space or anything in the master.

  • suzanne_m
    last month
    last modified: last month

    You are onto something Rhonda. This one does not have room for a tub but only the toilet is moved. The plumbing for the vanity and the shower stay in the same location.

    Since you have a tub somewhere else in the house, I don't have a strong opinion for either a tub or shower in the J&J. This is one layout I have drawn some days ago but never thought of keeping the vanity where it currently is.


    I am leaning towards keeping the master bedroom entrance where your daughters' bedrooms are. If your biggest concern was the noise, then like you said, you have ways to make the walls more insulated.

    BTW, if you put a counter top beside the W/D for folding clothes, I recommend you make it 30" deep. It gives you more flat surface when you want to fold t-shirts.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    Thanks Suzanne!
    This plan seems less intrusive aside from moving the toilet. I’m trying to explore all cost options.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    anj_p

    Thanks for your suggestion. I know I am beating a dead horse. Trying to make everyone happy, and it is definitely extending the decision making.

    So on the girls closets, they are 5' wide by 4'10" deep - so they have clothes hanging on both sides, which is over 9' of hanging space if you add both sides (that isn't even with double rods).

    My hesitation about the reach in closets - it will shrink their rooms some, but also take up more wall space with the door system a reach in needs. They need wall space for bed/nightstand, tall chest, and desk, and they both have a cozy chair. When you consider the additions of doors and windows that take up wall space, it gets tricky.

    I truly appreciate your advice! I love hearing all options so thanks!


  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    anjp,

    Also, I'm glad to hear that you think the solid core doors help. That makes me feel better about keeping the rooms on the same hall. I am trying to make this house work and do some things it just can't do!


    Remodeling is huge expense right now! So just trying to check the options to pick the one that is worth the money and doesn't feel like a sacrifice (or is worth the sacrifice?)


    Thanks again@


  • suzanne_m
    last month
    last modified: last month

    If the closets are 5'0"x4'10", the room where the shower and toilet are needs to be smaller:


    rr4580 thanked suzanne_m
  • suzanne_m
    last month

    Have you decided on the entrance of your master bedroom and the layout of the J & J?

  • suzanne_m
    last month

    One more thing, I recommend to put the shower drain anywhere where you don't stand when taking a shower. I would be more comfortable to the feet.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month


    Suzanne,

    We want to go with this option that doesn't compromise the girls closet or room space. Gives a separate toilet and shower room. Just hoping it doesn't feel too tight - 3' of space between bathroom sinks and the wall. Small amount of floor space between toilet and shower.


  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    This was another option - but the shower is exposed unless I put a curtain on it, and no place to change behind a closed door while someone else uses the sink.



  • suzanne_m
    last month
    last modified: 27 days ago

    Just out of curiosity on the placement of the toilet: Is it less expensive to rotate it than moving it somewhere else? Is it because of the joists are running horizontally? I think if you put the cabinet in the middle, 3'0" behind the vanity is fine. One does not need to walk behind her sister to reach the cabinet. They both have their own space in the 'vanity' area.

    I think the last layout would not solve the initial reason why you wanted to redo their bathroom which is to allow the 2 girls to use the bathroom at the same time. Also, it seems that they have lost their cabinet.

    Have you decided on the entrance of the master bedroom?

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    The architect drawing doesn’t show the center cabinet in between their sinks - such as this.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    last month

    Regarding moving the toilet. It is cheaper to keep toilet in same location. But can rotate it as shown.

    I could also flip the architect version on a horizontal line - keeping their vanities on the same wall as current. Then the shower stays in same location and all that moves is the toilet. Just a mirror image of what is drawn. It shouldnt matter either way just comes down to cost.

    I’m trying to find pics of this situation with the toilet and shower in same enclosed room
    Just can’t fine any inspiration pics. It might be unusual to have toilet facing the shower but it is just what works.

  • suzanne_m
    29 days ago
    last modified: 29 days ago

    I think I would make the shower 3'9"x3'9" (even 3'6"x 3'9" would be fine in imo). You may consider a rounded seat toilet with a shallow tank or even a tankless toilet.

    https://www.wayfair.ca/home-improvement/pdp/horow-dual-flush-round-one-piece-toilet-seat-included-hrow1001.html?piid=

    https://www.wayfair.ca/home-improvement/pdp/swiss-madison-sublime-dual-flush-elongated-wall-hung-toilets-seat-included-swmd1051.html?piid=61836542

    Also make sure you get a 21" deep vanity, not 24".

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    29 days ago

    That is a great idea to make the shower smaller in order to have more room between toilet and shower. If they don't have room to move around to dry off, change clothes, etc ... then what's the point!?!


  • suzanne_m
    29 days ago
    last modified: 29 days ago

    Strange, according to my drawing if your space is really 10'0"x14'0", your closets would be 4'7" wide. If they really are 5'0" and the shower is 3'9"w and the vanity area is 5'0" then your space is 14'5", not 14'0".

    Here are two drawings, one with the closets 4'7" with a 3'9" wide shower and a 5'0" vanity area. The second picture shows a 5'0" wide closet but the shower is 3'6" wide shower and the vanity area is 4'10".




    Note that I slide the pocket door in the shower wall to allow you to mount an art or towel bar on the other side. You can't put screws on the wall where the pocket door slides.

  • Karenseb
    29 days ago
    last modified: 29 days ago

    Rhonda, would this layout be possible? More closet space, more room between vanity and wall. Larger shower and room for linen closet in shower/toilet room.

    You could add a high window over the shower for natural light.

    At least with the shower and toilet in one room, you should only need a lock on that area, so no locked doors from the bedrooms which can cause problems.


    With more closet space, you could add shelves and or drawers. You could include a laundry basket on a shelf in each closet and let the girls do their own wash.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    27 days ago

    The girls would give up wall space between the bathroom door and closet door - that is where each of them put their dressers (in between 2 doors on that wall).

    I have a hard time understanding how the reach in closets give us more space - when we lose wall space in their rooms. Their closets are almost 5' deep - with double rods on both sides that is about 20' of hanging space.

    I do like this bathroom shower and toilet room more in your drawing Karen.

    The drawing above it (from Suzanne), shows a way to put the toilet and shower into its own room as well, but keep their walk in closets.

    This has been such a battle for me to figure out!!! I feel like I'm trying to make the bathroom do things it can't do.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    27 days ago

    Suzanne,

    Their closets are 60" wide.

    So the 2nd drawing from your recent post is accurate.


  • rr4580
    Original Author
    27 days ago

    I really like Karen's drawing. But it is more intrusive to our plumbing. $$$

    So, if I don't gain much drying space, and if 3' is ok behind a vanity rather than 4' ... I think I'm better with sticking to the walk in closets that don't take up a full wall.


    I so so appreciate everyone talking and thinking through this with me. It is just so much money to spend on a bathroom! Trying to accomplish keeping room size, keeping closet size, not being too intrusive to plumbing unless an idea is SO worth it!

  • emilyam819
    27 days ago

    Most people don’t have 2 walls of hanging in a 5 foot wide closet, because clothes would take up 2 feet on each side, leaving only 1 foot in between for a person to move. And if the 2 walls of hanging were adjacent, then 2 feet of clothes would be buried in the corner by the other clothes. However, if you like your closets and need the wall space, that’s fine.

  • suzanne_m
    27 days ago
    last modified: 27 days ago

    According to your calculations, you are counting double quantity of clothes that can be stored in the corner. In that specific area (corner 2' x 2'), you either have one row of clothes that runs on the N wall or 1 row of clothes that runs on the E wall. It is just not possible that clothes are hung in both directions in that corner. At the very best you have 16'0" of hanging space and from that 16', you have 4' of clothes that are harder to reach.

    But I do understand that re-doing a closet that works well for you is not worth the money. I am just explaining the calculations.

  • suzanne_m
    27 days ago
    last modified: 27 days ago

    I like the idea that the cabinet is in the middle as your two daughters have their own space. It prevents from having to circulate in a 3'0" walk-way. However, the disadvantage is that each sister has less counter space and the drawers below the vanity are very small. I would recommend to have a cabinet no more than 24" wide (18" is better) and have their sink closer to their bathroom door. This way, they have a longer continuous counter space and their drawers are wider.

    Also, maybe it is already planned this way, but in case it is not, I would do not put a pony wall for the shower, just glass. It will make that space feel more spacious.

    rr4580 thanked suzanne_m
  • suzanne_m
    27 days ago
    last modified: 27 days ago

    If you prefer to have the sink centered on the vanity, this is one way to get wider drawers (it does not solve the issue of having less continuous counter top though).


  • Karenseb
    27 days ago

    I can understand not wanting to lose wall space. I had thought a dresser could have been put on the wall to the right as you enter the room in the middle bedroom.

    I think Suzanne's last layout works. I am a little concerned about door interference between the bathroom entry space and the bedroom door .

    You could have the bedroom doors open the other way. Or you could put the bath vanity against the closets and have the shower located where you have the tub now and the move the toilet next to the shower..


    Have you considered closing off the hallway behind the bathroom in order to enlarge the bathroom? A little crazy, but I thought I's put it out there.



    rr4580 thanked Karenseb
  • suzanne_m
    27 days ago
    last modified: 27 days ago

    Karen brought a good point about the doors' interference. If the cost is the same between having the vanity on the hallway wall or the closet wall, I would put the vanity on the closets' wall. If not, I think it is ok to keep the vanity on the hallway wall. It is not ideal but not a very big problem to manage if only only person is using the bedroom.

    Another option would be to use a 28" pocket door for the bathroom (but not ideal either since the wall needs to be 4.75" thick to allow for a pocket door to slide in).

    rr4580 thanked suzanne_m
  • rr4580
    Original Author
    27 days ago

    Karen,

    Such a good point about the doors.

    I need to "flip" the design like this. This should totally work, because it keeps the shower and sink plumbing exactly where it is. Just moves the toilet.


    Karen, Regarding bringing in the hallway for the bathrooms, I would totally do that if I could figure out how to have the entrances for the rooms be in a "normal", not awkward spot. I just don't know how to make that work.


    Suzanne,

    I like the idea of NOT centering their sinks, but pushing to the side to have extra counter space. Maybe I'll make the linen cab a little more narrow, so they have more counter space.


    flipped the design so sinks adjacent to closet wall. To fix the door situation pointed out by Karen.

  • Karenseb
    27 days ago

    I thought I'd draw out the layout so you could see what I was proposing. It would limit the entrances to the girls bedrooms to from the great room for the middle bedroom and through the play room for the end bedroom. Of course the sisters could still visit through the bathroom.

    Larger bathroom and closet.



    rr4580 thanked Karenseb
  • suzanne_m
    26 days ago

    I went back to your very first floor plan you posted with the measurements and it appears that the space is 10'0" x 14'5". It is 5" more than the layouts I drew. If you go with the last layout I posted, I suggest that you make the walk-way 3'2" and the shower 3'9" wide. The wider the shower, the more space you have in the drying area.


    rr4580 thanked suzanne_m
  • rr4580
    Original Author
    26 days ago

    Karen,

    You have some really creative ideas!

    Daughter in the middle room likes direct access to the "play room" via that hallway. Using that hallway for bathroom space sure expands the options!

    Suzanne,

    Thanks for the idea - I like as much space I can get between sinks and wall, while still maximizing the drying/changing space between toilet and shower.

  • rr4580
    Original Author
    26 days ago

    Suzanne,

    You mentioned not putting a pony wall for the shower, but just all glass. I was thinking I could even do a curtain to begin with, then add glass down the road. Not sure if this is a good idea or not, but allows for the shower to be a more open space and not hit elbows, etc. Would just have a "curb" for the shower. I might even copy the tile and paint in this picture! I love it!



  • suzanne_m
    26 days ago
    last modified: 26 days ago

    I don't think you will hit your elbows in a 3'6" x 3'6" shower but a shower curtain will work just fine. If you think that adding a glass down the road is a possibility, I would talk to the contractor about the extra cost involved to add a glass later as opposed to now. I see no problem with the curtain but it would allow you to take an informed decision. A curtain is also less maintenance as it is very easy to put it in the washer.

    Yes this shower is beautiful and the color scheme makes it looks spacious.

    This is something I mentioned earlier, I encourage you to put the drain in the shower in a location where you don't stand when you shower. It is more comfortable to the feet. In this picture, they put the drain far on the opposite side. They also put the faucet where it is really easy to turn on before entering the shower so you can set the water temperature before you get wet.

    rr4580 thanked suzanne_m
  • rr4580
    Original Author
    26 days ago

    Thank you. Suzanne, You have spent so much time commenting on this post! Thanks a LOT!