Well you guys were right to go back to question the Integrity quote saying it should be less than the Kolbe Ultra - We took out about 80 lites across our entire package - again, without materially changing the look of the house - in fact we think we like it better. The architect had lites EVERYWHERE - in any case what a difference that and a little nudging makes on the pricing. To those out there shopping - certainly don't take that first quote as the answer - and 'value engineer' your grid patterns. Original Koble quote $38,700 - after removing those lights and continuing to press for some price movement $35,300 - more from the lite reduction that a price reduction - but we got 3% off if we pay in full at time of order Integrity - and this was the SHOCKER - original quote was a bit over $42,000. With the reduction in the number of lites, and the Marvin rep citing a 'calculation error and some more aggressive pricing' - the new quote came in at $29,300! This includes the hardware we want - Ultrex/Wood with primed interiors and screens. So now we really do have to think long and hard about which one to go with - thought it was getting easier (to go with the Kolbe) with the first Integrity quote $6K more than the Kolbe - but now with it thousands under, not sure which way to go - maybe it actually did get easier, but just swung in the other direction. Thank again for all the guidance - and had it not been suggested that some were surprised that the Integrity was higher than the Kolbe I probably would have disqualified it as an option without going back and questioning the quote.

I have no experience with Marvin, but we are mid-build and just got our Kolbe order a couple weeks ago. We got VistaLuxe for most of our windows, but got Forgent in any wet rooms and I have to say they look and feel amaaaazing. Like, we both commented we could have easily gone with the Forgent all over the house and been plenty happy. We happened to have wanted a wood finish, but had we wanted black interiors we would have been pleased as punch. They are sleek, they feel good to the touch, solid, sexy even. Our builders have worked with top of the line windows, by they way, and they were gushing about these windows, as well—, beauty, quality, and ease of installation. So I can at least give you that firsthand positive reaction. Haven’t lived with them yet, but they are beautiful and our trades folks give them the thumbs up.

Why use the Ultimates on the front? The only difference I can think of when viewed from the street is the 1.5" deeper placement of the sash in the Ultimate that creates a stronger shadow line and more traditional appearance. But wouldn't you have in 2 different windows and hardware viewed from inside the front rooms? I don't know if the exterior appearance would be a major advantage since I never use casement windows. Have you looked at these windows in a showroom? Check out the scrolling screens. I would add a sub - sill to either of these windows. But I haven't seen what your house looks like. Look at the relationship of the nailing fin to the face of the sash in the details below and the thin sill nosing and the effectiveness of the drip. ELEVATE (sash in front of fin, missing drip) ULTIMATE (sash behind fin, thin sill nosing)

I'm probably going to regret this, but oh well, here we go ... I don't have either exact product, but we have Marvin windows and an Andersen door, and both work nicely. Our products are wood interior and clad exterior, so different lines from those featured here, but in terms of the brands, both are capable of making quality products. We've had bad windows ... these aren't them. I cant say whether the Essential line is good quality, as I have no experience with that line, but to discredit the entire brand based on one line is not fair ... the ultimates are very nice; they come with a price tag to go with it, but they are evidence that Marvin does, or at least can, make quality windows. I do also want to clarify ... the top sash cover (the piece that sits on top of the lower sash in the double hung windows where the lock and tilt hardware attach, possibly the same as a check rail, listed as part of the weatherstripping in the window specs) is actually ABS not vinyl/PVC ... both plastic, but not quite the same material, in case that's important in the decision. It's up to you whether that is acceptable or not. As to the rest of this mess, mostlikely no one is following anyone around ... but if y'all follow the same topics, you'll find the same threads ... that's how I got here: this thread kept popping to the top. If you all follow "windows" you'll find the same threads; personally, I got here from "design dilemma." Just my two bits ... I'll leave the rest of this discussion to those more familiar with the lines in question. You might want to see if there's either a showroom you can view the windows in and/or if your contractor can point out other houses where they've installed the different products, so you can get a feel for how they might look in your project.