We went with the Triple pane apex package (ultra-u plus8). We're in MN and suffer from both weather extremes. The windows are not yet installed, they were just ordered after before the Christmas. We are actually just doing two double casements first and will live with them for a few months before purchasing more. i want to make sure I truly like our windows before committing another $20-30k for the rest of our windows and doors. Yes, it cost more doing it this way, but I'm ok to pay a bit more to ensure I'm happy.

From an 2010 thread on warranty here is some excellent input from @xoldtimecarpenter and jives with the biz law course that I audited years ago on contract law. If there is forum member with legal background it'd be nice to get their opinion on this. After my prior post I read about "stress cracks" caused by thermal differences and realize these can happen fairly easily especially on larger windows and so a warranty that is skimpy here as Kolbe seems to be is not positive. His/her post also made me laugh: "Window warranties aggravate me about as much as faucet warranties, which are only slightly less annoying than setting my hair on fire with kerosene and putting it out with a brick. I don't know of a single window manufacturer that really stands behind its product. Almost all claim to have life-time warranties, but if you read the warranty, they actually promise very little. At most they will, eventually, send you a replacement part, but actually getting the window fixed is up to you. Not to be impolite, but this is crap. The window fogged up because it was not manufactured properly. There is no other explanation for fogging of an unbroken window. The homeowner did nothing to cause the problem. It is entirely on the manufacturer, who, if he was actually standing behind his product would also pay for the labor to install the window. I am not at all impressed with the fact that a window company makes a video showing the homeowner how to install replacement glass. Why should the homeowner have to install it? He didn't cause the problem. If we install windows for a customer, and they have manufacturing problems, we take care of the problem. We deal with the manufacturer, we install the replacement parts. And we keep track of our time and costs and bill the manufacture for them. If they have not paid in 90 days, we sue. Most people are not ware that the manufacturer's written warranty is not the only warranty a homeowner has. By law the manufacturer warrants the windows to be merchantable, workmanlike, and fit for the purpose for which intended. If the manufacturer violates these warranties by, for example, providing a dual-glazed window with seals that leak so the window fogs up (not merchantable, not workmanlike), he has to pay for the parts AND the labor to install the parts. That is the law, and has been the law for over 100 years. Manufacturers' warranties are not written for the purpose of protecting the customer, they are written to avoid, as much as possible, their duties under these common law warranties. The effort is only effective if the customer lets the manufacturer get away with it. We never do, and we never lose. My suggestion for homeowner is not to deal with warranty issues themselves. Get the company who installed the windows to deal with it. You may have to pay them to take care of manufacturing problems (but not installation problems -- that's on them). That way you avoid the finger-pointing that is common in window warranty claims. The manufacture says its an installation problem, the installer says its a manufacturing problem and no one does anything. Take pictures, get invoices, keep close track of your costs. Add them up and bill the manufacture. The company will probably deny their liability since labor is not covered by their written warranty. Don't spend any time trying to explain your rights under common law warranty -- just sue in small claims court. The judge will provide all the explanations necessary. At $15-45 to file a small claim, it is one of the best judicial bargains around. Keep in mind also that most window companies are members of the Better Business Bureau and as members have to submit to binding arbitration if your ask for it. Ask for it. Let the BBB collect for you. Stop taking crap from manufacturers over warranty issues. Regards,"

Why use the Ultimates on the front? The only difference I can think of when viewed from the street is the 1.5" deeper placement of the sash in the Ultimate that creates a stronger shadow line and more traditional appearance. But wouldn't you have in 2 different windows and hardware viewed from inside the front rooms? I don't know if the exterior appearance would be a major advantage since I never use casement windows. Have you looked at these windows in a showroom? Check out the scrolling screens. I would add a sub - sill to either of these windows. But I haven't seen what your house looks like. Look at the relationship of the nailing fin to the face of the sash in the details below and the thin sill nosing and the effectiveness of the drip. ELEVATE (sash in front of fin, missing drip) ULTIMATE (sash behind fin, thin sill nosing)

@bethesdabeth We don't deal in any products that deliberately engage in an engineered obsolescence foundation, but pretty much every product that is used in track built new construction willfully does. Combine that with every appliance (as high end as you want to go with sub zero and beyond) in the home as well as every other material except the wiring, framing, and concrete...they all have dramatically shorter predictions than you reference. As does everything these days. The windows that lasted over 100 years from before don't exist. Mostly because the missing calculus from that lifespan is MAINTENANCE. Yes, that 100 year old window was harvested from a very dense timber strand...but it only makes it that long when its covered in about 17 coats of paint. Same with the siding. You leave any uncovered or finished wood exposed in a climate with any wet season, it's gonna fail. Obviously...you know this. But I feel like basic realism in the projections is worthy for context. Even that aluminum window, in climate with some rain, will experience some sort of finish degradation over time that would make it visually an eyesore. @dottt1 My college stays were spent at a school at over 7,000 feet so I understand the strength of the sun. The sun is stronger at that altitude but the overall strength (i.e. seasonal exposure) is less. I would say that the windows that are closer to the Equator still get more UV exposure in aggregate than most high altitude applications. Fiberglass, based on the ability to pultrude narrow and heavy mill thickness profiles, does have the ability to run some narrow frames. Most vinyl manufactures will not attempt to design a narrow profile with attention to profile width and visible glass because it is cheaper and easier to use a larger profile for profile stability. That said, there are several vinyl suppliers that will provide similar VT (visible transmittance) numbers as fiberglass windows (Ex. VT of 62 for both the Elevate with clear glass as well as Okna and Sunrise). To your question, is the Marvin Essentials a "bad" windows, no. Obviously it missed the mark for you in several capacities and I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion if those criteria in question, are of importance. That said, in the larger comparison to the products available in the marketplace, the Marvin Essentials in not a bad window. Is the Elevate a better looking window, yes. Do I recommend the Essentials over the Elevate, no. Before the accusations of being Marvin "homer" are levied, I don't know when the last Marvin job we sold was as a point of reference. The "best" window depends solely on the needs, necessities, and aesthetics of the client. That is as varied and diverse as the construction out there. There are good products in every category and if folks spent the same amount of time researching less "sexy" products like windows, siding, etc....as they did kitchen countertops...they'd probably land on better products. On the average, of course. Hope this helps. Happy Thursday.