I didn't mean to imply an improper installation will cause condensation to drip from the PVC exhaust pipe. Jake the Wonderdog is correct in that condensation can occur at end of the vent pipe and drip down. Condensation is likely to occur whenever warm air meets a cold surface. Having it drip down onto the condenser is not an ideal situation. But this is not the cause of your current problem.

I thought about the condensation occurring near the air handler. What may be happening is warm air is entering from the outside end, and cold air is entering at the air handler end. Under the right conditions at high humidity condensation will occur. It should not be a problem if the condensation drainage is working properly. The amount of condensation in the PVC exhaust produced while the furnace is operating is much more than than you will ever see in the summer.

So I basically just dialed it in as it was set for a 6 ton unit when I have a 3 ton and a lot of other settings were also wrong in which I fixed. I guess the installer did not want to set it up to have communication with the condenser is what I guess bassed on the research I did.

A properly sized 3 ton unit would not have a setting for 6 tons? Are you kidding?

A unit less than a year old and you're required to: "do some research". What did you pay the installer for? So you would have to monkey around with it a year later?

Amazing. This is why installation and who you choose to do it --- is so important.

Why you pay someone to do it, is so that you don't have to. Clearly you didn't get what you paid for.

I don't disagree with Austin air.

With the very limited info we have it feels like this wasn't a quality install. What's more, the homeowner is having to become an "internet expert" instead of having the installer fix the problem.

When you've lost confidence in the installer, it really calls into question the value of any warranty.

Jake, there's clues there in the pictures.

On some odd occasion I get called out on these kinds of jobs, because many times the homeowner thinks if something goes wrong the Manufacturing warranty will bail them out.

The first thing I check is age of the equipment. 1-2 years old. Collect service fee tell home owner to call the company who installed it. OR give them a price for new equipment installed properly by me. I'm not sticking my neck out / my HVAC license on the line for a job not installed by me.

Separate the men from the boys pretty quick. If the home is a "new build" as in new construction and the unit is less than a year old: call the builder or in some cases I will offer a solution as well... because I know how builders can be sometimes. Provided of course I don't get there to find the unit in pieces... meaning the home owner tried to do something foolish.

If you can imagine it... you can almost bank on it that I've seen it and probably worse in the field.

Usually builder related problems are due to quality of the installation. These kinds of installs are often rushed as installers are paid on piece count type pay. The more jobs you do (homes) the more you make. (some slower home build areas could be different, when I say these things I speak of my location in Katy, Texas)

Austin Air,

In my previous post I was choosing my words carefully. What I don't agree with is the almost aggressive attitude of blaming the homeowner.

From the homeowner's perspective, they presumably did their due diligence in hiring a professional HVAC installer and paid for that service. When things don't work, the homeowner is in a bad position because they don't have the technical ability to evaluate if the work was done properly. Even if it's evident the installer did a poor job, they have very little recourse other than to roll the dice with another installer - and we are not talking about small sums of money.

Although I don't think it's the right answer, I understand why a homeowner would say, "this is bs!" and turn to the internet for answers.

Granted, I'm making some assumptions about the quality of the install (based on limited info) and that the homeowner vetted the installer.

In my area, residential and light commercial HVAC installers are licensed - but virtually never inspected. The quality of the work ranges from very good - to slap-your-forehead bad. Both the good and the bad will tell you that they are "professionals". Too many of the installers are not much more than laborers - with minimal skills, training and knowledge. I've played "dumb" and asked basic questions, and I am amazed at both the answers - and the cockiness with which they are given.

I was fortunate that I understood the physics, the engineering, the electrical, etc. I was also fortunate that I trained under a commercial mechanical contractor (I was working on mid-rise and high-rise residential at the time). I don't do any of that now. I made the decision to get out of that field when I realized that the trades - even people who do know what they are doing - are not valued.

Thank you Jake the Wonder Dog for at least understanding where I'm coming from. I wouldn't be so upset if the installer would have that bare minimum went over the at least settings and features I'm able to change such as basically everything I'm having a problem with it is all on an application and again reading through all the manuals and service books that belong to my furnace it's states that it is the installers job to go over all of that with the homeowner so I don't feel it was not even a week later the motor blew out and they had to replace it and then looking on my app they never mentioned that my air conditioner is throwing trouble codes after they've been here how many times and the trouble code is B3 basically is saying that there is a problem with the limit of air and that was all because they had it set the default settings at 6 ton and not 3-ton like it was supposed to be not to mention probably 10 or 12 other settings that I had to adjust and it's not that I asked the installers not to go over it with me it was just never mentioned. And then reading through the entire manual it even says that if you would have taken an extra 10 minutes and hooked up two more wires my whole entire system would have communicated with itself in other words it would have known what condenser it is and the tonnage and everything else would have automatically adjusted itself with two wires being hooked up but they chose not to do it I think for a $9,000 job at bare minimum I could have gotten that. And I just want to add so everybody is aware I'm not trying to be mean or disrespectful. But the top all of this off I have cameras throughout my whole house and these people were talking a lot of negative stuff about me my wife and my dogs while they were here they also we're not wearing their masks or their booties as they were supposed to be and they were vaping e-cigarettes in my house when the door was closed not to mention they sat down for probably a total of 3 hours literally playing with their drill in the air making it I guess sound like they're working but I did not want to have to mention all of that I wasn't aware I would be criticized to come on to a HVAC Forum which is what I thought this would be for to ask for help not for a fix but when I'm trying to get to is what options would a homeowner have to get their warranty or work backed up if they're basically not acknowledging it. Is there some kind of like State inspector I can hire that will certify their work and then you know give me a printout that I can bring to these people or is it court-related or does anybody know or am I just being a scumbag homeowner that's nitpicking because of my username do-it-yourself because I like to do things myself my name is not do everything yourself. I think with water going down into a wall and creating a ton of mold which has been creating tons of issues for myself as I am asthmatic and have an immune disorder and then my children that are asthmatic I guess I should just suck that up and just get over it right? There's a few you that at least seemed a little understanding where I'm coming from maybe I am a little irritated which I am but specifically the first gentlemen's response I think was absolutely unnecessary and I feel he's probably the type of worker that would do this type of work. Now you guys or anybody reading this does not want to help me in any way or doesn't have an answer you can just tell me that and I will go elsewhere and ask. Like I said I thought that that's what these forums were for to express a concern I have and to me mold growing through my house due to a humidity issue that was most likely from a bad install with a brand new unit that we paid $9,000 for I personally I feel like that was a good enough concern to at least go on the internet and ask being that the company that installed it one hour heating and air conditioning has been blowing us all and giving us BS answers all they want to do is sell us more stuff so I'm sorry if I'm wasting your guys time as I know your time is not cheap and I do appreciate any of you that have answered or at least have tried to understand where I'm coming from like I feel like I'm being responded two from the exact same installers that were at my house ( A couple of you only, not all of you)

I feel like the adult thing would have been to do is if you read this and had an answer such as the first gentleman did I don't even know why I'm calling him a gentleman but I will do so as I have pride for myself and manners but it would have been a lot more Humane for you to just not say anything at all because you gave no valuable information and all you did was express your belittling ethnics. I have tried to take as many pictures as I can and I have somewhat document that each photo with a little bit of text so if there are any other HVAC workers that do you happen to read this and understand what it is and have a suggestion or even an idea I would greatly appreciate it as things are hard enough as they are right now and now dealing with this mold if you are not able to assist me or feel as if you want to say something negative or do make me feel like I am doing the wrong thing by going to internet Forum that is designated for situations like this then please just either do not comment or telling me to go to a different place because I don't want to irritate you or anyone and I also don't want to feel belittled more than I already have

The fact that one of the pipes just ends inside the furnace cabinet suggests that is the combustion air intake for the furnace. Warm humid air coming into the furnace box with the AC running will produce condensation. Why is air being drawn into the furnace box when the furnace/inducer motor is not running? Maybe an issue with the AC condensate trap?

The pipe coming into the furnace that isn't connected to anything is indeed the combustion air intake.

Here's what I think is going on - based on very limited information:

1. there is negative pressure inside the top area of the furnace. That shouldn't be happening during cooling.

2. Because of that, it's drawing warm moist air from the outside into that area via the combustion air intake and it's condensing on the controls, etc.

That's not supposed to happen.

What I suspect is that the return air system is screwed. More specifically:

1. that the filter / return air duct is resulting in seriously excessive pressure drop. That may be combined with improperly sized blower - or a blower that was never accurately set (or an incorrect setting for the outdoor unit). The result is that it's sucking air from everywhere - including the combustion compartment of the furnace. You say, "the motor blew up" - was that the blower motor?

And / Or

2. that the return air ductwork was so sloppy that it's depressurizing the utility room, closet, basement. Having an open vent in the return air in the basement will do that too.

I would also guess that there's a ton of other stuff wrong here - starting with sizing the unit, airflow, etc.

So here's what's up:

1. We can't fully troubleshoot this install remotely. There are too many details for anyone to do that.

2. We have every reason to believe that the furnace - specifically the top compartment - is subject to negative air pressure. This can be very dangerous in the winter because of the danger of carbon monoxide poisoning. Left unchecked in the summer, it's likely to result in moisture damage to the controls.

3. Every part of this install, from sizing, to the ductwork, to the airflow, to the programming and venting needs to be reviewed.

4. This is not a DIY project - and I'm not being disrespectful of your attempts.

BTW: Do you know for a fact that they are licensed? Goodman is one of the few companies who will sell to anyone.

Austin Air,

In my previous post I was choosing my words carefully. What I don't agree with is the almost aggressive attitude of blaming the homeowner.

Jake, I'm in the business of telling people bad news all the time. How do you tell people bad news by choosing words carefully? It's still bad news. They still aren't going to like it.

The bible describes the truth as a "two edged sword". People want to be told what they want to hear, more often than not. I'm not in an 'enviable position'. I'm often times in the position of pulling a bandaid off a gaping wound. It's gonna hurt, no way around that.

I didn't cause this situation. I can be the solution, but your goals have to match mine. Oh Ray all you're doing is patting yourself on the back--- opinions. I've had these given to me all the time. Everything I do has a reason... most of what I do and in many cases what I say is going to rub people the wrong way.

I am here to provide you with the truth. Of which you're probably not going to like. I'm not in the candy making business, it's not going to taste good either.

This is a forum board Jake. How much can we prove or disprove? The person who posted this has a handle name of "Do It Yourself". So maybe I'm a bit too agressive, but it's not all that uncommon for me to see these kinds of things in the field. The job was done recently by an installer. Whoever it is? Does it matter? --- nope, the installer is responsible for this job.

If the installer can't be contacted, can't be found, is no longer working on HVAC, doesn't answer his phone... what ever the reason. It still does not change nothing.

So because I've delivered this glaringly "bad" news. You're going to blame me? How is it my fault for telling you what you don't want to hear... If an installer couldn't do it right the first time --- how is anyone here in a forum board going to "help"?

A bad install will remain a bad install until the day it is ripped out and done correctly.

What can others gleam from my harsh words? The installation is the most important part of the job. Being able to call that company when problems arrise. Problems will arrise from time to time. There is no brand immune to failure.

Now maybe you understand why I tend to be more so on the harsh words --- as opposed to someone who is simply going to lie to your face.

Honesty means honesty all the time, not just when it's bad for you. I am also honest when the odds fall in your favor. Just realize that is often times not the case. Everyone likes a simple fix. Don't they?

I service the Katy, Texas area.

And I just want to add so everybody is aware I'm not trying to be mean or disrespectful. But the top all of this off I have cameras throughout my whole house and these people were talking a lot of negative stuff about me my wife and my dogs while they were here they also we're not wearing their masks or their booties as they were supposed to be and they were vaping e-cigarettes in my house when the door was closed not to mention they sat down for probably a total of 3 hours literally playing with their drill in the air making it I guess sound like they're working but I did not want to have to mention all of that I wasn't aware I would be criticized to come on to a HVAC.

This is a forum board. I am not a psychic nor anyone else here. So what you tell us is all we have to go by. I often times jump the gun based on "trying to forsee" the future. So if I got it wrong this time I appologize for that. Your handle isn't helping you here --- so I see something that doesn't look quite right, put with your handle... well magic 8 ball skills only go so far.

However, what you post here about the installer... it was your decision to use this HVAC company wasn't it? If they couldn't install it properly "in person" not sure what you think you will get from a group of "mostly homeowners". This is an in person job and because this system is so young it's not likely for another HVAC contractor to get involved with it. Where do you think I learned this? It has always been in place industry wide. I was running calls 20 years ago seeing this sort of thing when I worked for a major HVAC company. It's nothing new. People get the run around with their installing HVAC company start calling other companies only to find out no one will work on it? Is that the "other" problem you are having?

Let's take a step back..... list your all your equipment you have. Model # & Serial # of each piece of equipment.

magic 8 ball skills? oh, maybe you're late to this board. I have a friend in the business...

So I've glanced thru the additional photos you've posted... we need to know how, what, why, where did you find this HVAC installer?

Was this HVAC company provided to you by your Home Warranty? If not, how and why you chose them?

Realize there is no warranty for improper installation. There are glaring problems. A job is often quoted by what is going to be done. Often times there is more to be done than just merely swapping out a box. This is why I often say: "the devil is in the details". HVAC is detail heavy.

If there's glaring problems with what I "can see" it's quite more accurate there's more with what I "can't see" -- it's an in person job. Helping you see the forest from the tree. (The big picture)

The con is always cost. A job done proper costs more, no way around that. You can argue, fashion opinions here and there... none of which would matter now. You're in a spot regardless if I give it to you straight or lie to your face. Clearly from what you say... "you've been lied to."

I come along, tell you the truth in an overly aggressive manner... it was for your own good. "They call it tough love."

@Do It Yourself,

Regarding the combustion air intake and vent piping, the relevant code is the International Fuel Gas Code, section 503.4.1 It directs you to follow the manufacturer's installation instructions.

I don't know which Goodman model you have, but the instructions for one Goodman condensing furnace I found online indicate a 4" minimum/6" maximum distance from the wall for a horizontal combustion air intake and a 8" minimum/12" maximum distance from the wall for a horizontal vent termination. I don't think your installation complies. Further, it is not good practice to install the vent in a location where acidic condensate would drip on equipment.

Regarding the condensation issues, I concur with Jake the Wonderdog.

Mike_home : that is exactly what I was trying to imply with my first question but I assume I did not word it right LOL the reason I was questioning those vents being above the condenser it is because I thought it was supposed to get fresh air not hot, humid and recycled air being blown in from the condenser.

Jake the Wonderdog: by the sounds of what you are saying I do believe that you are correct but your assumption. I used one hour heating and air conditioning which they are fully licensed insured and are a very large company where I am so I did not think that there will be any issue. But like I said every time I have them come out and try to work with me to fix an issue they either just patch it up or pretend they fixed it and then leave. So I don't know who I call or what I can do about handling yes or if there is anything I can do, I just don't have enough knowledge in this specific field unfortunately and that's why I and appreciating all of the feedback I'm getting from each one of you..

Austin Air Company: sorry if my name seems a little aggressive but it just automatically filled itself based upon my emails title. I did not choose it per say but upon signing up it essentially chosen felt. But my furnace model is gmvc960804cn and my condenser model is Gsx16s361AA . Serial numbers I can get tomorrow due to me being at my sister's to visit family.. I will also be adding a few more photos including one of the app with the original settings the installers had it on.. Also just some other random photos incase they may help with something

Austin air: We choose them just do to the fact that they are very reputable where I am and have very good reviews under Google, they claim to guarantee their work for 2 years with labor and have a 5 year warranty on my equipment but it is hard to have them fix it if they are saying there is nothing wrong

Jake the Wonderdog: the part that was replaced was the blower motor. Upon looking at the app it had some previous error codes right after it being installed which I'm assuming was probably due to the fact that he never adjusted any settings so it just ran at default settings and was probably too much for the actual blower motor to handle so came back out made an excuse on why it went bad and replaced it

There seem to be many problems involved. You should put down your camera and pick up your phone to call out whoever did this work. If not satisfied with the result, call another experienced and licensed HVAC company, but be aware that many could shy away from dealing with problems caused by someone else. .

Austin Air Company: sorry if my name seems a little aggressive but it just automatically filled itself based upon my emails title. I did not choose it per say but upon signing up it essentially chosen felt. But my furnace model is gmvc960804cn and my condenser model is Gsx16s361AA .

Ok well I'm sorry to you as well. I clearly "jumped the gun" until all facts came out.

So from the pictures you post, how this unit sits does not look like your location is Texas. I've been wrong before (obviously, this post) So I'll wait until you confirm your location.

"one hour" blah blah blah --- is a large company, but they are independantly owned and operated. Which means? Big corporate money grab. So essentially anyone can start up their own "one hour" franchise. This is where "big" doesn't do you the kind of favors you think it should.

This is just to possibly explain "why" you get the treatment you get from this company. I know how and why they formed here in Houston area... how yours formed in your area could be considerably different. (It's a franchise and from what I see not a well run one either) It's true their reviews all look great. Which leads one to wonder if they are "real" or not?

Usually their advertisements will let onto this fact by stating that each company is independently owned and operated. I checked the website they don't "offer up" any of these truths you would have to hunt for it. Most of the time it's only listed on "mailing type advertisements, probably because it's required by law for them to do so."

--------------------

Your Equipment.

Your furnace is rated for 4 ton. Your AC is a 3 ton single stage 16 SEER. So the thermostat setting of 6 ton leads me to believe a "commercial HVAC company, decided to get into the residential market". For residential there is no 6 ton equipment I am aware of. You can get there on the furnace side in residential but not AC equipment wise.

SO paring a 4 ton furnace to a 3 ton AC "might be" ok. This depends primarily on your location. As some areas need heating more than they need AC if you catch my drift... the climate is more extreme on the heating side as opposed to the cooling side.

What is the ductwork capable of? How much air flow? Just mentioning this for now.

Your furnace is a condensing furnace. So even if it was marginally over-sized it would merely only run in first stage heat. Depending on how it's wired / controlled from the thermostat.

What kind of thermostat did they provide you? Take a picture of it / give model number of it.

------------------------

I'd like to know what this unit replaced was your previous equipment. I want to know if the PVC flue vent was this companies work. Based on what I've read this far, it sounds like that is the case. Just want to be sure.

---------- Let us know your location (city, state) ------ I will try to find a possible pathway for you out of this mess. Right now this won't include calling another HVAC company at least not yet.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Note: your equipment comes with a conditional "life time warranty" provided where this unit resides is a residence. If it's commercial, it would be 5 years. --- the lifetime warranty is in addition to the 10 year parts warranty. This comes from the manufacturer when you follow their rules for registering etc. Improper installation will void any warranty, regardless.

Jake the Wonderdog: the part that was replaced was the blower motor. Upon looking at the app it had some previous error codes right after it being installed which I'm assuming was probably due to the fact that he never adjusted any settings so it just ran at default settings and was probably too much for the actual blower motor to handle so came back out made an excuse on why it went bad and replaced it

Default settings won't tear up a blower motor. Improper sized return air --- if the ducting is not rated to handle the air flow of the furnace blower, the motor will eventually burn it self out. The blower to this furnace is an ECM, which is a bit cheaper grade of variable speed motor.

Settings just dictate how the blower is to run, this doesn't cause damage in and of itself.

The easiest way to determine air flow capacity now is if you have any information related to the size of your previous equipment. Like a model # or serial # of your previous furnace.

SO paring a 4 ton furnace to a 3 ton AC "might be" ok.

You're kidding, right? Air conditioners and heat pumps are rated in tons of refrigeration. Furnaces are not. They're rated in BTU/hr. While you can convert between the two in terms of energy flowrate (1 ton of refrigeration = 12,000 BTU/hr) "tons" or "tons of refrigeration" is, by definition, a cooling capacity metric--not a heating capacity metric.

The capacity of a furnace should be matched to the required heating load for the specific home--not the the air conditioner's cooling capacity.

Your air conditioner and furnace share a common air mover and duct work--the size of which need to deliver adequate air flow in both heating and cooling modes. They both need to be designed accordingly.

I live in a high heat climate (cooling dominated)

The heating load for my climate is low. So say you have a need here for 60k BTU's of heat but on the AC side you need 4 tons of cooling.

A 3 ton furnace is not capable of moving the air flow needed for a 4 ton air conditioner. (if the roles were reversed in this particular thread)

Mr. Charles Ross you're a builder first and foremost, AND you live in a moderate ho-hum climate. I live in an extreme "hot" climate. BUT it still can get cold here.

Climate concerns are different for different locations. (you need to get out more)

Consider your sources of information people......

Do It Yourself,

If I understand correctly the installation was done by a franchisee of One Hour Heating and Cooling. This is a legitimate company licensed installer which you paid $9,000. The furnace is a Goodman GMVC96 80K 2-stage furnace, the condenser is a GSX16 3 ton single stage condenser (rating up to 16 SEER and 13 EER). We don't know what coil and thermostat was installed and what was done about the line set. Nor do do we know your market location. But it does seem your intention was to hire a reputable company to do the proper installation.

You have a 2 year labor warranty (normal practice is one year), and a 5 year parts warranty (I believe if the equipment is properly registered by the installer it should be a 10 year warranty). The blower motor has already been replaced, which is unusual in a new installation, but it is possible it there was a manufacturing defect.

My advice is you need to get tough with One Hour Installation. It is unfortunate but you have another year of fighting under your labor warranty in order to get the claimed "100% Satisfaction Guarantee". You have many photos showing problems. Reading all the posts it appears this franchisee has hired incompetent techs and is unwilling to fix the installation problems. You should speak to the franchise owner and explain you want this to be fixed properly and if he can't he can remove all the equipment and return all your money. If you have not done so already, you need to document all the problems and the responses.

@Austin Air Companie

There is plenty of misinformation on a typical houzz thread. It shouldn't be the case that "professionals" are a source of it, but you seem intent on providing it in copious quantities.

The capability of an HVAC system to meet the required heating and cooling needs depends on the correct sizing of all of the system components (air conditioning coil, outdoor compressor unit, furnace, air handler and ductwork) including an appropriate "marriage" of the components and controls into a properly functioning system. This has implications for both design and installation.

For the record, Ray, you don't live in a "high heat" climate or an "extreme" climate. Katy, TX is in DOE climate zone 2 which is considered a hot-humid climate. Climate zones take into account both temperature and relative humidity--both of which are important in HVAC design. At least get your terms right. I live in a mixed-humid climate zone which is more difficult to design for since it has characteristics of multiple climate zones depending on the time of year. And you don't have a need for "60 BTU's of heat," but rather, an energy flow, which is expressed in BTU/hr. Units are so fundamental to the HVAC profession that professionals get them right.

"A 3 ton furnace is not capable of moving the air for a 4 ton air conditioner" Again, the units are wrong and so is the thinking. The furnace rating is based on the burner output and expressed in BTU/hr. Assessing whether it is adequate for heating a particular home also needs to consider the efficiency of the unit, because your don't get 100% of rated output. The air moving capacity of the air handler it is paired with is different. That's why during design we have three different tasks: 1.) calculating the required heating and cooling loads 2.) selecting the proper size components and controls and, 3.) designing the ductwork.

Houzzers will be well served to skip over Austin Aire's posts if they're looking for professional commentary.

@Do It Yourself

The furnace needs to be level.

I'm pretty sure that the white stuff you are seeing on the coil is aluminum oxide.

My guess is the black stuff is from inside your ductwork and a result of excessive air velocity.

We have good reason to believe that the ductwork / blower / etc is improperly sized and/or adjusted. That the blower is trying to move too much air through too restrictive ductwork.

It could be that the ductwork is fine - and the blower is way off. It could be the ductwork was marginal, and the new electronic filter completely threw it off. It could be that the entire furnace / AC is improperly sized. Someone with plenty of experience can eyeball these variables pretty well - but there are also static pressure meters, velocity meters and temp rise tests to get this dialed in (or let you know you have duct issues).

"The blower to this furnace is an ECM, which is a bit cheaper grade of variable speed motor." This isn't correct. An ECM is an electronically commutated motor - it's actually much more expensive than the old style multi-tap psc blower motor. It's also more energy efficient and can automatically set based on the static pressure of the ductwork.

Some ECM blower motors program when they first start up and can be manually overridden. I'm not familiar with how Goodman communicating equipment sets up - specifically how it sets the blower. You know that your unit was programmed improperly.

Austin Air is working in a different environment, obviously. Nobody in this neck of the woods talks about furnaces in tonnage. He's looking at this from the perspective of someone who owns an HVAC shop. I don't think he's familiar with Goodman. I'm guessing he's older, has a lot of experience in legacy HVAC- and yells at kids to get off his lawn.

I believe you got a crap install job - which is all too common.

At this point, what is it that you want from this board? This isn't a simple repair, this is a complete evaluation and redo - or you hobble through. My advice stands: Present the owner with 3 options and move to option 3 if you don't get a response.

@Charles Ross Homes is correct: You size the heat and cooling equipment to the house, design the ductwork and then set airspeeds and such in both heating and cooling mode.

In existing homes, you can often use the old unit as a guide - but it's good to do a sanity check. It's not a given that the previous installer got it right. What's more, there may have been changes to the house. The original ductwork may not have been designed for AC, for example. This is where an experienced HVAC person can often see when something looks off and do a load calc, static pressure measurement, temperature differential and such.

I seem to recall (with maybe a 70%+ confidence level) that when I replaced my systems, for the one for the larger part of the house, the gas furnace models prescribed by the load calculation came with different size blower motors. The blower sizes were described by the size in tons of the companion air conditioning system also being installed, even though the furnaces were not (as above) so described. I recall my excellent contractor saying that while a smaller blower in the furnace being installed would be satisfactory for heat operations, he would be installing one (with the same heat BTUs) with a higher capacity setting for AC mode. And that the fan setting for each mode was different and set separately. Not 100% certain but I think that was the conversation. Maybe it was a 3 ton blower would be fine for heat but he'd be installing a furnace with a 4 ton blower with AC ops in mind, both (again) being the same model otherwise with the same heat BTU output.

@Elmer,

You are correct. When the magnitude of the air conditioning load exceeds that of the heating load, the air handler (blower) is sized to accommodate the larger of the two loads.

My advice is you need to get tough with One Hour Installation. It is unfortunate but you have another year of fighting under your labor warranty in order to get the claimed "100% Satisfaction Guarantee". You have many photos showing problems. Reading all the posts it appears this franchisee has hired incompetent techs and is unwilling to fix the installation problems. You should speak to the franchise owner and explain you want this to be fixed properly and if he can't he can remove all the equipment and return all your money.

Do It Yourself,

Mike is right here. But the more information you can gather the better. What was installed before this unit, model # / serial # of previous equipment / note problems you have had either via service tickets from one hour / premature part failures etc.

You need to go higher up the processing chain at your installer. Manager, is likely going to be your first stop. Because the way one hour is set up as a company this unit is likey a franchise. You may have to put in some serious work to figure out who owns this company. It could be the manager it could be someone else entirely. (namely an investor)

Investors typically are just the deep pockets of the operation. Have little to "no" knowledge of HVAC. *maybe they do*

If you don't get any traction calling them: Go to BBB (better business bureau) Think of this as a way to "reach someone" of importance. However, because one hour is a franchise you need to be sure BBB understands which franchise... because BBB will contact them.

If you don't get any results thru BBB: contact your local news channel. This is really a drastic step, but given the situation you may need to give it some serious thought if the BBB option doesn't get any response or one that is satisfactory.

Given all the trouble you've laid out here, I think it's in your best interest to have them take this equipment out / give your money back. Then you'll need to look for a new HVAC company and start this process over again.

I'm interested in knowing where you are located. If you can post that info it isn't going to hurt anything.

Let us know how things turn out. HVAC companies like this need to be put out of business they give the industry a black eye.

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Me and my HVAC company: it would never come to this. I am hands on. You call me, you get me. Of course some commenting on this thread wouldn't want to talk to me, because they know how "easy & not complicated" this job is. LOL. "joke of the morning"

I service the Katy, Texas area.

For the record, Ray, you don't live in a "high heat" climate or an "extreme" climate. Katy, TX is in DOE climate zone 2 which is considered a hot-humid climate.

"for the record" Mr. Ross I was "comparing" my climate to yours. Break out the failed 18 year chemical engineering degree... oh wait that's not going to work either.

Why would I compare my climate to yours? To help you understand, of which clearly you don't.

Ray,

The OP asked a question that you never bothered to answer. In fact, if you'll take the time to re-read your posts, you'll find you used much of your "Aire" time berating the OP. You got called on it by another poster. Then you turned on him because that's what you do to anyone who disagrees with you--Ray--you're an internet bully. I'm your latest victim. It is unfortunate that houzzers get put downs in lieu of the solid technical advice they should get from a "pro." They'll be well served to skip over your posts if they're looking for professional commentary.

Ray,

Your personal attacks are unwarranted, unprofessional, and a poor substitute for the technical expertise a "pro" should be contributing to houzz.com Houzzers will be well served to skip over your posts if they are looking for professional commentary.

Charles Ross Homes,

Your personal attacks are unwarranted, unprofessional, and a poor substitute for the technical expertise a "pro" should be contributing to houzz.com Houzzers will be well served to skip over your posts if they are looking for professional commentary.

Taking you to Church: It's time you start practicing what you're preaching.

How many places could I find... if I were to look on this board I would find you "belittling" me... calling me freon breather among other "choice terms". Yet you say I am attacking you?

You like to put yourself on a pedestal looking down at others. This post is in Heating and Air Conditioning / Plumbing.... it is not "builders r us".

Truth is stranger than fiction.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Charles Ross Homes, indeed truth is stranger than fiction.

I'm not a strong believer in Yelp content but it sometimes can give general direction. I looked up AC contractors in Katy, Tx. There are several in the area with a believable number (ie, not so many as to be phoney) of high ratings and positive comments. There's also one with just one-one star rating, with the comment:

"The guy was rude and condescending to my wife and neighbor I referred him to. Not sure of his skills but I like doing business with someone who is more customer oriented."

I supsupposeoose these are 1.5" PVC pipes.

@Elmer,

A leopard never changes its spots.

Austin Air :

--------------------

Your Equipment.

Your furnace is rated for 4 ton. Your AC is a 3 ton single stage 16 SEER. So the thermostat setting of 6 ton leads me to believe a "commercial HVAC company, decided to get into the residential market". For residential there is no 6 ton equipment I am aware of. You can get there on the furnace side in residential but not AC equipment wise.

SO paring a 4 ton furnace to a 3 ton AC "might be" ok. This depends primarily on your location. As some areas need heating more than they need AC if you catch my drift... the climate is more extreme on the heating side as opposed to the cooling side.

What is the ductwork capable of? How much air flow? Just mentioning this for now.

Your furnace is a condensing furnace. So even if it was marginally over-sized it would merely only run in first stage heat. Depending on how it's wired / controlled from the thermostat.

What kind of thermostat did they provide you? Take a picture of it / give model number of it.

------------------------

I'd like to know what this unit replaced was your previous equipment. I want to know if the PVC flue vent was this companies work. Based on what I've read this far, it sounds like that is the case. Just want to be sure.

---------- Let us know your location (city, state) ------ I will try to find a possible pathway for you out of this mess. Right now this won't include calling another HVAC company at least not yet.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Note: your equipment comes with a conditional "life time warranty" provided where this unit resides is a residence. If it's commercial, it would be 5 years. --- the lifetime warranty is in addition to the 10 year parts warranty. This comes from the manufacturer when you follow their rules for registering etc. Improper installation will void any warranty, regardless.

So I just one too briefly apologized to everybody that has been helpful here being that I have not been on this forum or responded for almost 2 weeks due to me being very sick lately but now that I'm better I am back in full force mode of trying to correct this. I do completely understand what you are saying about the tonnage being over possibly being okay which decent one of my biggest concerns but rather them having it set to a six-ton was definitely more devastating to me.

As far as all of my old equipment it really was not much running bad it was just 25 years old and very own efficient and was leaking freon which was the older style so the top it up was extremely expensive and the blower motor needed to be replaced so that is one of the reasons why we went this route. They did not provide me with a thermostat as I guess they felt it would be cheaper for them to utilize my old one which was just your basic Honeywell non programmable thermostat. I did however after all the work was finished decided to get a nest e thermostat English I wired it myself and I am honestly not sure if it is possible to mess up wiring a nest thermostat I've never seen a thermostat so simple LOL.

So as far as my location I am located precisely in Beachwood, New Jersey 08722 so I do consider my area to BNA more of a hotter human area just due to the fact we're by the water

Austin air:

Default settings won't tear up a blower motor. Improper sized return air --- if the ducting is not rated to handle the air flow of the furnace blower, the motor will eventually burn it self out. The blower to this furnace is an ECM, which is a bit cheaper grade of variable speed motor.

Settings just dictate how the blower is to run, this doesn't cause damage in and of itself.

The easiest way to determine air flow capacity now is if you have any information related to the size of your previous equipment. Like a model # or serial # of your previous furnace.

I have no idea unfortunately what deduct work would be rated for. And upon reading the entire installation manual for all of the equipment that they installed it specifically states that the installer is responsible for calculating the proper airflow going in and Al and also calculating the static pressure and make sure cfm's are correct which they did not do any of it. Not one of the things that they do. The only thing they did do what's bring a little machine up in the kitchen that ran for like 10 minutes taking air quality sample and that is what sold my partner on this deal because the air quality was extremely bad which I would expect it to be being is a older by level and I have not yet gotten to seal any of the ductwork nor air seal the attic which is one of the biggest things for such a bad air quality result because he plays the machine on my kitchen counter right up under my cabinet which has a boxed out soffit above the cabinets to make them lower and behind the drywall is just a huge void into the Attic in which I need to get poly board and fill it up and air seal it with foam but my point is that machine was just sucking air right from the attic basically and that was the only test they did. Did not even have the decency to run a blower door test to see how much air leakage we have or at the absolute least couldn't even so an air quality test after the work was done to see any improvements so I know we basically got played and it's just hard and complicated to deal with I just need to figure out the right way to go about it and that is why I'm talking to everybody here which I greatly appreciate everything all of you are saying

Mike_Home:

Do It Yourself,

If I understand correctly the installation was done by a franchisee of One Hour Heating and Cooling. This is a legitimate company licensed installer which you paid $9,000. The furnace is a Goodman GMVC96 80K 2-stage furnace, the condenser is a GSX16 3 ton single stage condenser (rating up to 16 SEER and 13 EER). We don't know what coil and thermostat was installed and what was done about the line set. Nor do do we know your market location. But it does seem your intention was to hire a reputable company to do the proper installation.

You have a 2 year labor warranty (normal practice is one year), and a 5 year parts warranty (I believe if the equipment is properly registered by the installer it should be a 10 year warranty). The blower motor has already been replaced, which is unusual in a new installation, but it is possible it there was a manufacturing defect.

My advice is you need to get tough with One Hour Installation. It is unfortunate but you have another year of fighting under your labor warranty in order to get the claimed "100% Satisfaction Guarantee". You have many photos showing problems. Reading all the posts it appears this franchisee has hired incompetent techs and is unwilling to fix the installation problems. You should speak to the franchise owner and explain you want this to be fixed properly and if he can't he can remove all the equipment and return all your money. If you have not done so already, you need to document all the problems and the responses.

Mike_home yes you are absolutely correct with your assumptions and information I have provided. The only thing I could tell you about the line set if they did not fully replace it they did the typical lazy approach which was to just cut the lines at at the old unit roll backed insulation and then however much copper they needed to make it to where they needed to the new unit they just soldered it in and rolled insulation back over and did the same for the condenser outside.

I could not agree with you more with your final conclusion being that I just have to get hard on them and do whatever is necessary to get this taken care of because at the end of the day it is not right especially Ima person that has chronic asthma, allergies and just suffered from a mold infestation do to this installation not to mention in which we paid for the repair out of pocket.

I appreciate you giving me all the information you know about 1 hour such as them being a franchise but not really advertised in that way because I just thought it was one big company I did not know they were individually franchised so thank you for the information greatly!

Jake the Wonderdog:

The furnace needs to be level.

I'm pretty sure that the white stuff you are seeing on the coil is aluminum oxide.

My guess is the black stuff is from inside your ductwork and a result of excessive air velocity.

We have good reason to believe that the ductwork / blower / etc is improperly sized and/or adjusted. That the blower is trying to move too much air through too restrictive ductwork.

It could be that the ductwork is fine - and the blower is way off. It could be the ductwork was marginal, and the new electronic filter completely threw it off. It could be that the entire furnace / AC is improperly sized. Someone with plenty of experience can eyeball these variables pretty well - but there are also static pressure meters, velocity meters and temp rise tests to get this dialed in (or let you know you have duct issues).

"The blower to this furnace is an ECM, which is a bit cheaper grade of variable speed motor." This isn't correct. An ECM is an electronically commutated motor - it's actually much more expensive than the old style multi-tap psc blower motor. It's also more energy efficient and can automatically set based on the static pressure of the ductwork.

Some ECM blower motors program when they first start up and can be manually overridden. I'm not familiar with how Goodman communicating equipment sets up - specifically how it sets the blower. You know that your unit was programmed improperly.

Austin Air is working in a different environment, obviously. Nobody in this neck of the woods talks about furnaces in tonnage. He's looking at this from the perspective of someone who owns an HVAC shop. I don't think he's familiar with Goodman. I'm guessing he's older, has a lot of experience in legacy HVAC- and yells at kids to get off his lawn.

I believe you got a crap install job - which is all too common.

At this point, what is it that you want from this board? This isn't a simple repair, this is a complete evaluation and redo - or you hobble through. My advice stands: Present the owner with 3 options and move to option 3 if you don't get a response.

@Charles Ross Homes is correct: You size the heat and cooling equipment to the house, design the ductwork and then set airspeeds and such in both heating and cooling mode.

In existing homes, you can often use the old unit as a guide - but it's good to do a sanity check. It's not a given that the previous installer got it right. What's more, there may have been changes to the house. The original ductwork may not have been designed for AC, for example. This is where an experienced HVAC person can often see when something looks off and do a load calc, static pressure measurement, temperature differential and such.

Jake the Wonder Dog thank you very much for giving me the advice on the Oddball questions regarding the pipe dope color and the blob of stuff on the coil. One thing that you said still down to me was about the electronic filter being able to throw off their unit? Can that really happen or would it be more and likely be sorting out and like frying the computer the board?

It's funny that you mentioned about it having any cm because like I said before I literally read every single page of all of the installation books for each piece of equipment more than once now and basically for the unit to have just been able to communicate it would have essentially taken two wires. It looks as if they needed to just go down two additional wires. Especially if they already know that they're not going to adjust a customers brand new unit settings manually to properly fit their home you would think the least they could do would be to make sure it's communicating so that way it will set itself. So I am a little ticked off that we have a fully up-to-date modern unit with most of the bells and whistles biggest being the e c m and they just decided to not hook it up. So after they did that they know that the settings are a default because in the installation book that was provided from the vendor and was the same one they utilized for the installation even says that if it's not putting communication mode it will be automatically set the default and it even gives you a little picture of what the default settings or and that is the photo that I provided for you guys earlier showing the six ton condenser Etc

Austin Air

My advice is you need to get tough with One Hour Installation. It is unfortunate but you have another year of fighting under your labor warranty in order to get the claimed "100% Satisfaction Guarantee". You have many photos showing problems. Reading all the posts it appears this franchisee has hired incompetent techs and is unwilling to fix the installation problems. You should speak to the franchise owner and explain you want this to be fixed properly and if he can't he can remove all the equipment and return all your money.

Do It Yourself,

Mike is right here. But the more information you can gather the better. What was installed before this unit, model # / serial # of previous equipment / note problems you have had either via service tickets from one hour / premature part failures etc.

You need to go higher up the processing chain at your installer. Manager, is likely going to be your first stop. Because the way one hour is set up as a company this unit is likey a franchise. You may have to put in some serious work to figure out who owns this company. It could be the manager it could be someone else entirely. (namely an investor)

Investors typically are just the deep pockets of the operation. Have little to "no" knowledge of HVAC. *maybe they do*

If you don't get any traction calling them: Go to BBB (better business bureau) Think of this as a way to "reach someone" of importance. However, because one hour is a franchise you need to be sure BBB understands which franchise... because BBB will contact them.

If you don't get any results thru BBB: contact your local news channel. This is really a drastic step, but given the situation you may need to give it some serious thought if the BBB option doesn't get any response or one that is satisfactory.

Given all the trouble you've laid out here, I think it's in your best interest to have them take this equipment out / give your money back. Then you'll need to look for a new HVAC company and start this process over again.

I'm interested in knowing where you are located. If you can post that info it isn't going to hurt anything.

Let us know how things turn out. HVAC companies like this need to be put out of business they give the industry a black eye.

---------------------

Me and my HVAC company: it would never come to this. I am hands on. You call me, you get me. Of course some commenting on this thread wouldn't want to talk to me, because they know how "easy & not complicated" this job is. LOL. "joke of the morning"

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Austin Air I would have to agree with you as well that unfortunately this problem it's just way too sophisticated for me to get anybody here to physically assist me without having to literally take out all of the garbage they put in wrong. I am going to have to gather up as much more evidence of anything and everything over the next two days as I am calling my Township inspector to do a full inspection on my HP AC unit this week I felt that once I have the township print out a piece of paper saying that the job was basically crap that might be a little more incentive to light a fire under their ass to correct this issue without going to court or any other legal means

@DIYer,

If your state requires contractors to be licensed by the state, another avenue for you to pursue is to file a complaint with the state's board for contractors (or equivalent.)

A note on contractor licensing:

Just because a contractor has a state license doesn't mean they are capable and competent, thorough, ethical and/or honest in their work and dealings with customers. Far too many fail several of these assumed and expected characteristics on a daily basis.

Austin Air I would have to agree with you as well that unfortunately this problem it's just way too sophisticated for me to get anybody here to physically assist me without having to literally take out all of the garbage they put in wrong. I am going to have to gather up as much more evidence of anything and everything over the next two days as I am calling my Township inspector to do a full inspection on my HP AC unit this week.

This process isn't going to be fun and in some cases you may meet resistance. The way franchise companies are set up make this especially difficult. The township inspector isn't a bad idea either for a start.

Mike's idea of the Uwin guarantee (whatever that is) might be another way to try. Basically in my mind the first step it to get the attention of 'the owner' of this company. In some cases the way franchises are set up can make this quite difficult. This owner "may not be involved" in day to day operations... as he may merely be an "investor". Whoever the "head guy is" --- you need to make him aware. If this company doing this sort of thing on a regular basis - the next step below may be required....

Don't forget the news channel angle in your area. The news channel will do the contacting for you to get someone involved to make it right. I think I would use that as a last step, but don't wait too long.

let us know how it works out.

A note on contractor licensing:

Just because a contractor has a state license doesn't mean they are capable and competent, thorough, ethical and/or honest in their work and dealings with customers.

Larger companies like One Hour, there is typically one HVAC license holder. Usually the owner or the HVAC company manager. The workers (techs & installers) below the manager are merely registered with the state. This is more or less a function of criminal back ground checks performed at state level. (you know to make sure they get done)

In Texas as an example: to become a so called "registered tech" with the state is to send in your $20 with ID. (it might be $30 now).

A real HVAC license in Texas is much more difficult. How you deteremine the difference is that a real HVAC contractor license contains a number.

Some states don't have HVAC licensing requirements or in some cases they are flimsy at best.

Contractor licensing requirements vary from state to state. The licensing requirements will likely be different for general and trade contractors. To be sure, a contractor's license is not a very good performance indicator.

One value in hiring a licensed contractor is the ability to file a complaint with the state's contractor licensing board or it's equivalent. A single, sufficiently large complaint or an excessive number of complaints may result in disciplinary measures up to and including the loss of the contractor's license. Loss of the contractor's license would preclude them from earning a living as a contractor--at least without moving out of state. The mere threat of a complaint can be powerful leverage. Ditto for a bad review on social media such as google reviews, Yelp, etc.

Air conditioning seems to be the best way to help your slight one cool down and rest well on sweltering and humid days and nights. The question is whether there is a risk of catching a cold, given that babies are susceptible. And with some materials from https://www.airconservicingsingapore.com/installation/, I was able to install it and not be so hard that we could catch a cold or the child would not feel well. Pediatricians believe that a room with an air conditioner is safer for the baby's health than a warm, stuffy room with high humidity.

Mike_Home

Do it Yourself,

I am in central NJ about an hour drive to the northwest. You are in a nice location near the Jersey shore.

I assume the contractor is the One Hour Installation franchise of Tom's River. Their website has a page for the UWIN guarantee. Here is the link: UWIN Guarantee.

You are supposed to fill out a claim form if your are not satisfied. I see that this UWIN Guarantee is on other One Hour Installation franchise web sites. Perhaps the form goes to the franchise company. There is an 800 number you can call if you want to ask questions.

I am so grateful and appreciative of you coming across this information and being kind enough to pass it forward to me. After doing some research on this show said guarantee it does seem as if they will have no choice to make it correct or refund / partial refund and keep the current equipment as is. There is not much information based on this guarantee policy that I could find other than a brief paragraph or two simply explaining what it is but I do believe this is the route I'm going to try as well.

As to how everybody just to notify where I stand so far, I have called the Township and state inspection office and both of them are declining to come out to inspect the hbac work as they said it has already been given a permit for the new equipment. Makes no sense to me that just because they gave them a permanent does not mean the work was done correct but who am I to say. I've called a few other sources of information and basically got nowhere other than coming crossed everything that you guys have given me.

This is just an unfortunate situation in which I think it's truly devastating for the consumer as they are almost stuck in a hole that was designed to keep people inside of. So it's as if they'd written everything up so they can back themselves up like somebody posted previously on if things were to go south to it is a hard situation to get out of but I'll be damned if I'm going to allow these installers and Company to get away with this and I will be sure to you every single thing you guys suggested here and possibly more if necessary! From the bottom of my heart I truly thank each and everyone of you! I will definitely keep you everybody posted as this gets moved along oh, I'm sure it's going to be a slow process but it will be a process in which will get accomplished

I'm amazed that so many people stayed and give advice. To be honest, unfortunately, I do not understand the repair of an air conditioner. I would not dare to install and disassemble any equipment on my own. If I scatter something, then, in the end, there will be too many unnecessary parts, and I will just have to throw out the equipment. LOL. I always ask for help https://www.airconservicingsingapore.com/ if I don't like something about the operation of my air conditioner. They always solve all problems in a short time and at a very reasonable price.