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Windows Home Repair

New double hung windows gap between screen and frame

2 years ago

Just had new windows installed and noticed a gap on each side between the bottom of the screen and the window itself. Is this normal of new windows these days? I had replacement windows put in my last house 15 years ago and didn’t notice this. Doesn’t seem right to me but I don’t see any weeping channels in the outside

Comments (5)

User
2 years ago
Looks pretty normal to me.

I was so sad with the quality of "average" windows in new construction. It was not a feature I paid attention to when we built our house about 10 years ago now, because the windows I had in the house we were living in were really good windows. However I didn't know they were really good windows, because sometimes I am an idiot.

So we built a new house, and I trusted the builder to guide me on a number of selections. Considering I ended up referring to him as Satan by the end, you can probably guess how I feel about that. Ha.

Anyway, the new windows in my new house are awful. What I found out when I had the window manufacturer out to fix some leaks is that "no one" cares about screens anymore. Well, except apparently for me. And you. The screens in my windows fit so poorly they don't keep bugs out. I'm in NY and love to open windows to feel a cool breeze, but I can't do that after dark, because then my home becomes Bug Central.

So, um, yeah - welcome to windows in the modern era.
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
2 years ago
That is usually from a small crown in the screen track of the sill nose. Check the window installation and you can usually just push down on the sill a bit at the edge and it will flatten down.
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Ramona, I completely agree with your desire to keep your old windows. That is by far the best, and often the most economical thing to do. Keeping your triple tracks for a fews years will help you identify the best solution. They are ugly but modestly effective as storms. And as the pp pointed out they can be painted to blend them in more. Many old houses had them installed in the last quarter of the 20th c as an energy saving tactic. Whether they actually do much is a debatable question, but they did, at least provide some life-prolonging protection for the primary sashes, and a platform for an all-season screen. (The latter is not to taken lightly. I often open my windows on warm winter days just to change the air. Without screens my indoor cats would escape, so it's handy having screens easily at hand just for that. I am in the process of rehabbing my windows, once I have got the wooden storms set-up, if I need to open a window in winter, I plan to use those small expandable screens to contain my critters.) The old-fashioned thing to do about storm windows is have wooden ones made and have wooden screen windows made, as well, to change out for the summer. Newer wood ones can found that allow you to pop out one section of the storm and exchange it for a screen panel during the summer. However, of course, in both these instances you would still have a wooden frame on the outside of your primary window. The invisible storm windows are often permanently mounted in exterior applications, though removable when installed inside. They are pricey, though, and as you note don't manage the screen issue. And the interior ones leave your primary windows exposed to the elements. You didn't say where you are located, but you may need to evaluate which need is more critical (tight storms or more flexible storm and screen arrangements) depending on your climate. Another good tactic to deal with the cost of wooden storms and screens is to do one elevation at a time to spread the cost, a bit. Sometimes one can find a local carpenter with experince to make wooden storms, and more importantly, fit them on site. Old houses are quite maddening, and few old houses still have perfectly square window openings (if they ever did), so whatever you do will require some skill to install. Use of triple tracks (particularly existing ones) as a transitional strategy when the long range plan is rehabbing the original windows and adding wooden storms/screens is certainly better, in my view than succumbing to the blandishments of the replacement window sales guy who will leave you without an essential feature of your house, with dubious energy savings and probably far-less long-lived materials, if not substantially altered window openings. They are, however, extremely annoying to clean. I curse those beastly tracks three times a year and they, in turn, get revenge by slicing my fingers. HTH, Molly~
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No replie? Oh well. Went with outside mount 2" faux wood levolor from the local big box store. Putting them up this weekend, hope I dont regret it.
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Comments (25)
I'd agree on the surface with the comments above, but also say its possible that there was a reason (or multiple) for this. If you have significant concerns, I'd ask someone from the installation company to walk you through their measuring methodology as it applies here. A few possibilities: - Racked opening. You can see that the gaps are large in two corners and smaller in the other two. While a uniform 1/4" gap would be great, its rare in practice, especially in older homes. - Stepped jamb. Looks like there was an internally hinged unit in there previously, those often have a step in the jamb where the panel closes against. The gap on the face would look much larger than the gap at the smallest point in those cases. Its also possible that there was a step/stop of some sort that they couldn't definitively deterimine whether or not it would be able to be removed at the time of measure. We see striaght through on the side in your measurement shot, but we don't know what that looked like before, or what the other sides looked like. - They may have planned for a buck frame (generally a 3/4" wood frame) but in the end there wasn't clearance for it. - As far as being secured, ideally there would be shims placed on the other sides as well, however that isn't always done in practice. If this is still in progress it wouldn't be out of line to ask for it. The installer may say that the foam offers support and locks the window in place which is not lying, but shims would be best practice. - As far as finishing, was interior finish part of the scope of work? Typically it would be, I'd imagine that they would add some sort of finishing piece to cover up the gap/foam and make it look complete. At the end of the day, based only on these pictures, it looks to me like the only thing that you will really lose here is 1/4-1/2" of glass on each side of the window. That said, again, I'd definitely have a talk with them about why the gap appears to be so large and go from there.
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Legally, you are required to make the request for repair in writing. Include some pictures to make the situation clear. Request a response within 10 days. Send a written follow up that states that should this safety hazard not be repaired that you will be forced to have it done and deduct the cost of that from the rent that you owe. That’s the legal approach. If you’re getting a deal on rent, and don’t want to cause too many waves, you still need to document the issue and bring the condition of the property to his notice. For all defects. That protects you should he decide that he wants to blame the window falling out and cutting someone on you. Or the rot that goes down into the wall that the water damage has caused. He could blame that on you because you “never told him” about the issue. You need to notify him, even if he won’t fix it. A responsible landlord would want the opportunity to keep up his property.
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PRO
HomeSealed Exteriors, LLC
2 years ago
+1. There is a natural crown in the sill on most sloped sill windows. Water drains to the sides and outward under the screen. Those gaps shouldn't be excessive or uneven from side to side, but its not abnormal or defective for their to be small gaps at the corners.
PRO
toddinmn
2 years ago
I’ve never heard of this natural crown. Most companies by lineals that are long and straight then cut to size. Naturals crowns are not supoose to be there not would I consider them part of the design . IMO it would be characteristic design of a week sill and unwanted but not always a 100% avoidable. Sometimes this can happen when the sill of the existing frame is high in the middle and the window is installed directly on top and not shimmed on the outside corners. I put a staight edge on the sill of my lowest line of windows and my high end , both are straight., Any bowing is gonna come from install IMO. I agree msnufactures can be cheap and the screen is often overlooked . The screen frame itself is subseptible to bowing if screened to tight and I prefer one that has latches to hold it down tight and reqiures a separate motion to release. I have requested this feature to my manufacturer more than once to no avail. If manufactures are humping there sills in purpose they should incorpate a pile weatherstipping or katch that draws it down tight. I would try pushing down in the screen frame corner before anything else as it is the easiest and often works.
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
2 years ago
I don't think HomeSealed was saying that is was engineered into the product, but it is not uncommon for there to be a bit of a crown to the outer edge (i.e. least reinforced section of the sill). Either way, a bit of heat and pressure flatten them right out most times.

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