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strawchicago

Roses that you want a 2nd one versus less of?

strawchicago z5
2 months ago
last modified: 2 months ago

I regret having a 2nd Lavender Crush (climber) grafted-on-Dr.Huey. The one in partial shade is HUGE & occupies lots of space & needs more water. In its 2nd year it shot up to 7' x 3'. If I have to do it all over again, I would buy ALL climbers as own-roots (smaller & more continuous blooming).

Roses that I want or enjoy having a second one: I love to have more cut-blooms (Baronne de Rothschild), or I'm addicted to its scent (Golden Celebration), or they get smaller each year (hybrid teas and floribundas in zone 5 shrink as they get older). These are the ones I want a 2nd one:

Barcelona, so tiny and the scent is amazing that I want a 2nd one:


Baronne de Rothchild: lasts forever in the vase & lovely fresh scent, but this own-root hybrid tea is so tiny:


Jude the Obscure, always want more no matter how many Jude-own-roots died through my zone 5 winter. Below Jude is on left, and Annie L. McDowell (another want more) is on right:


What are the roses that you want more of, vs. the ones you want less?

Comments (102)

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    2 months ago

    Straw, my climate is so dry, I get very little scent from the roses. Jude was the only one that I detected a strong scent from. Marc Chagall smells like Peach Swirl to me, but lighter and more powdery. They're close to each other so it's easy to make the comparison. Kiss Me Kate and Roberto are different from each other. I believe Kate is fresher, if that makes sense, and Roberto is more old rose. But, both very light for me.


    Tina, I agree completely with your assessment of beautiful Morden B. Somehow, she borders on the ordinary. And, Iceberg. I lived in CA for most of my life, so I was just over Iceberg. I did try all three - white, pink and burgundy, but none made it through winter. I didn't care.

    strawchicago z5 thanked flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Flowers (Andrea): Thank you for the info. on scents of Marc Chagall, Kiss me Kate, and Roberto C. Agree with you on MORE St. Cecilia, amazing myrrh scent regardless of the weather. Mine is 2nd year own-root so leaves are always pale. My 1st St. Cecilia was also pale in a pot. But the paleness of leaves doesn't matter, it now has 10 blooms/buds, pic. taken July 19.


    Comte de Chambord is one that I have 3 of, best scent among my 140+ fragrant own-root roses. Below is its 2nd flush, pic. taken July 18. It's a 10th-year own-root. For the first 2 years it kept having blackspots, so I solved the problem for good by fast drainage: mixed in lots of gypsum (helps with fast drainage in alkaline clay), plus dousing it with sulfate of potash to balance the calcium. This rose can take lots of acidic rain and stay healthy if the drainage is fast.


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  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    I don't want a second plant of Prairie Harvest, but I want a second plant of Tchaikovsky. Both are 7th-year-own-root, but Versigny has prettier & larger bloom (4" across), plus much better scent (smells sweet & delicious like candy). Prairie Harvest has a lesser scent (mothball floral). Both have bush-beauty with glossy foliage, but Tchaikosky has healthier leaves. I want another one of Tchaikosky for more cut blooms. I consider it the most beautiful bloom in my garden: large 4" across with zillion of petals, plus a luminous yellow (best in real life).




    Tchaikovsky and Evelyn are always the largest blooms with the most petals. Both bloom well with alkaline tap water at pH 9 (fixed with gypsum and sulfate of potash).


  • rosecanadian
    2 months ago

    Tina - I so agree about Morden Blush...it's so beautiful as a blooming bush and as individual flowers. If it were fragrant, I'd grow it in one of my pots.


    Straw - I really love your Tchaikovsky!!!

    strawchicago z5 thanked rosecanadian
  • ann beck 8a ruralish WA
    2 months ago

    Tina...my Julia Child is a pretty fast repeater...she's own root and our climate is cool summers. Brad at Select Roses in BC recommended her and she's so big I only need one. 5x5. but I am trying to keep her 4x4.

    strawchicago z5 thanked ann beck 8a ruralish WA
  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Bush-shot of Tchaikosky, it has the PRETTIEST FOLIAGE, so glossy & healthy. Never see diseases on it, despite in 4 hours of sun. This rose is worth having a 2nd one for 7 years of health as own-root, and delicious scent (caramel candy and floral). YUM. Pics. taken today July 22:






  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    2 months ago

    Funny how roses perform so differently in different gardens. My Julia Child is also a fast repeater. She was left with only one cane after winter, but she has bloomed her little heart out all summer during the heat wave. Short and skinny, she is covered in blooms right now, and I just dead headed a bunch last week. I think she would gain more in size if she would stop all the blooming, but I just can't pinch the buds off.

    strawchicago z5 thanked flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Ok, I'm convinced. I need Tchaikovsky. There were several blooming at the Rosarium yesterday that I had to go see what the name was. Going back for one for sure.

    strawchicago z5 thanked flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
  • ann beck 8a ruralish WA
    2 months ago

    Was that Northland? They don't list it in the site.

  • rosecanadian
    2 months ago

    Straw - caramel candy??? Oh YUM!!! :) I love the roses in your bouquet!!

    strawchicago z5 thanked rosecanadian
  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    2 months ago

    I really hope people are still following this thread.

    Duchess de Brabant is new to my yard this spring. Dont really know much about the plant itself or blooms but I dont care. I am dwfinitely getting another, possibly a third.

    Hands down favorite fragrance.

    If anyone knows of roses that smell similarly please let me know. It is AMAZING

    strawchicago z5 thanked oursteelers 8B PNW
  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    2 months ago

    Valencia is a fabulous new rose for me and so far, I would take several more



    strawchicago z5 thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Ann, the Rosarium Garden Center was formerly Northland Rosarium. The mail order part was sold to one of their employees a couple years ago. Northland is still mail order, but the Rosarium is for local pick up only. If you're ever in the Spokane area, it's definitely worth a trip to go see their display garden. They still sell hundreds of roses, but are now a full service nursery. It's huge.

    https://rosariumgardencenter.com/

    strawchicago z5 thanked flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
  • rosecanadian
    2 months ago

    Oursteelers - ooooh!!! :) :)


    Kristine - I so agree!! Beautiful blooms!!

  • ann beck 8a ruralish WA
    2 months ago

    Houzz keeps eating my comments.

    flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA I wish I had know that it wasn't only mail order, when we were there in April....I would have wondered thru instead of waiting in the car during my husband's meeting...oh well, maybe we will get back.

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  • noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
    2 months ago

    I'd like another Scentuous, because I'm obsessed with its fragrance. I'd like less of Evelyn, because three is really more than I need, and as beautiful and fragrant as it is, it really is kind of a lanky bush and doesn't bloom as much as others. I also probably could use less of Desdemona, because, well FIVE is a lot. I became so infatuated with it that I went overboard. I just gave one away to a friend, and she took one sniff and said "OMG! That's amazing!". I would fill a bed with Des, if I had one, but I don't have a spare planting bed and so five is probably too many. Two Munsteads is probably too many also, because to be honest, even though when the weather is perfect it is a fantastic rose, those perfect days are not very common here, or even rare. So it is rare that I don't get a burnt/fried Munstead.

    strawchicago z5 thanked noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Noseometer: How would you rank the scents in your garden of Evelyn, Bolero, Scentuous, Sonia Rykiel, Desdemona, Bishop's Castle, and Munstead Wood? Thank you.

    I agree with you on less Evelyn. I have one Evelyn and it consumes the most water since the bush is large as 10th-year-own-root.

    My Munstead Wood used to fry even in partial shade .. when I moved it I found that tree roots were stealing water & calcium. Now it's in full sun and no more fried-blooms, I constantly give it Garden lime plus sulfate of potash prior to rain. I prefer Garden lime (22% calcium and 12% magnesium), magnesium makes soil sticks together and UP the moisture. Magnesium also helps with potassium-uptake, and potassium regulates water-osmosis.

    Calcium helps with heat-tolerance per Texas A&M University study. Keeping the pH up also UP the fruity scent of Munstead Wood. If I have a larger garden, I would love a 2nd Munstead Wood since it's CONTINUOUS bloomer as 7th-year own root, it's the earliest to bloom in spring (early May), and the last to bloom during Thanksgiving.

    Below bouquet with Munstead Wood was picked at 91 F yesterday July 26 in full sun. Munstead Wood is upper red. Middle blush-pink St. Cecilia (want a 2nd one) also doesn't fry in full-sun at 91 F. Evelyn doesn't fry in full-sun, but Princess Charlene de Monaco (left pink) has less petals at high heat. Lower The Dark-Lady (pinkish red) fry in hot sun:


    Gruss an Teplitz fries badly in 4 hrs. of hot evening sun, I never pick that for the vase since it doesn't last long with soft petals. Pic. taken July 26 at 91 F:


  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Nose, I agree about 5 Desdamona being too many. I have 4 and that is 3 too many. I can barely keep them deadheaded. I will try and rehome a couple of them.

    A new rose that is really a good one is Our Anniversary. It is a small rose with big yummy blooms. I would take several of them.




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  • noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Straw, for my dry, hot garden, and to my preference, I would rank them as follows.

    1. Scentuous (as you probably already know). It may not be as strong as others on their best days (Radio Times, Munstead Wood), but it is way more consistent, and the delicious fragrance reminds me of bourbon (not bourbon rose, but bourbon like Maker's Mark, and warm cuddly goodness). It also wafts and is present at all times of the day, even on hot windy afternoons.

    2. Desdemona. The fragrance is impressively strong and delicious, but not quite as delicious as Scentuous, since it has a sharp element, like putting your nose in a cup of grapefruit and berry seltzer, just after you’ve poured it, and it is fizzing away. It is fragrant at all times of the day and through the windy afternoons also.

    3. Bishop's Castle. Sweet high notes and incredible wafting ability makes this fragrance very high up on my list. It's like a chakra 6 (as compared to a chakra 7 for Boscobel). It's more like gin compared to the bourbon of Scentuous.

    4. Bolero, Sonia Rykiel, Evelyn, and Munstead Wood. Bolero is delicious marshmallow cream/waterlily, but since it HATES my heat and is very thrips susceptible, I only get to smell it a couple times a year. It is not consistently strong. Munstead Wood can be significantly stronger than Scentuous, but only on rare occasions, like a couple days of the year when the temperature and humidity are just right and then it wafts as well. The fragrance has a strong acetone component that slightly ruins the warm-berries-in-the-sun fragrance. Sonia Rykiel and Evelyn are barely fragrant in the garden, most days of the year. When cut and brought indoors, they are delightful, Evelyn with the peach fragrance and Sonia with the fruity (variable but today raspberry/pear) fragrance. But I barely notice them in the garden. Bolero, Sonia and Evelyn do not waft at all in my garden at any time.

    strawchicago z5 thanked noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
  • rosecanadian
    2 months ago

    Noseometer - I love, love, love reading your fragrance opinions...way more sophistication than I could impart. Amazing and thank you!!


    Kristine - that's such a clear shot of your wonderful Our Anniversary!! Love it!!


    Straw - I really love your The Dark Lady!! What do you think of its fragrance?

    strawchicago z5 thanked rosecanadian
  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Noseometer: Thank you for the reviews of your fav. scents.

    Carol: Scents are always better as own-root. A friend returned The Dark Lady to the store since she could not detect any scent with its grafted-on-Dr.Huey.

  • rosecanadian
    2 months ago

    Really? I didn't know that. I guess I'll never know the difference. LOL

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  • Deborah (Z10 Coastal CA)
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Straw -- I took your advice re the Master Blend for my Felicia (got it in a 4" pot from Annie's Annuals -- but growth seemed to stop -- no new growth, no spring blooms) - now after the MB application -- voila! I have new growth and a few buds! She's competing with tree roots where she is, so they may steal her nutrients. I'm hoping that once she gets established she'll be fine.


    Loving all these photos! That Purple Lodge looks incredible. Intrigued by Tchaikovsky. Agree with Carol that Noseometer is very good at describing fragrances.


    I have two Scentuous, two Munstead Wood, two Poets Wife, two Desdemona, two Celestial Night. Can't wait for my baby Duchesse de Brabant to grow up to look like yours, Jacqueline!

    strawchicago z5 thanked Deborah (Z10 Coastal CA)
  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
    2 months ago

    Nosemeter, I loved reading your fragrance descriptions!

  • noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Funny, but today my Sonia smells like Lychee/Pear, my Desdemona has a hint of naphthalene (yuck!), Evelyn has a strong peach fragrance (but only when I stick my nose into the flower), Munstead smells like berries with a hint of ferment and mold, and Huntington Rose smells like…horse. Not horse poop, but like horse. And I remember it smelling like banana cream pie when I first got it, years ago. Deelish combines its grapefruit with JuicyFruit gum. I wonder if it is the rain from last night or the new fertilizer (ammonium sulfate).

    strawchicago z5 thanked noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
  • rosecanadian
    last month

    Noseometer - oh that's a shame! Horse, mold, naphthalene, fermentation...booo!!!!

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  • noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
    last month
    last modified: last month

    At least Scentuous still smells great (not fertilized). So does Bishop’s Castle (also not fertilized), although I’ve decided it smells more like an unpeated whisky instead of gin, maybe a Japanese whisky. Evelyn and Sonia still smell good (fertilized).

    strawchicago z5 thanked noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Agree that Sonia Rykiel smells yummy fruity. Back in 2012 when my daughter was in grade school .. she was very hungry when she got home .. she sniffed Sonia Rykiel then told me she wanted to eat it since she's so hungry. Even Sonia Rykiel's leaves smell like raspberry (better scent than Rouge Royal bloom itself). I like to crush its leaves and sniff it. I will plant the new Sonia Rykiel rooting this year in enclosed wire-fence to protect bunnies from chewing its delicious & fragrant leaves.


  • rosecanadian
    last month

    Mmmmmm :) :) :)

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  • ann beck 8a ruralish WA
    last month

    Noseometer.....now I need to have my husband tell me if I have smelled unpeated whiskey.

    Sonia Rykiel...oh yum...but the bunnies would have her gone in no time...tons and tons this year.

    Strawchicago,,,I wonder if you could root your Lavender Crush in place? I read this guy does "easy own rooting" He buries the graft, on the named rose he then scraps to the cambium and puts rooting hormone and lets it root.. If it worked on your Lavender Crushes, you wouldn't need to move them, I don't think. He does his in Hawaii, so it might be different in your cold zone.

    strawchicago z5 thanked ann beck 8a ruralish WA
  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    last month

    Ann Beck: Great idea, that way Lavender Crush's Dr.Huey-rootstock would die, and it would be smaller on its own-root. Thank you !!

  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    So happy that my neighbor agrees to take my 2nd Lavender Crush (in full sun). That sunny spot will go to the Bolero rooting that I have in a pot. I still keep the 1st Lavender Crush in partial shade (occupies as much space as Savannah), but at least I don't have to water it as much.

    The chalky purple color doesn't appeal to me, nor the Lemon-Pledge furniture polish scent, can't cut for the vase either, and gets too tall as climber. Below pic. was taken during 1st flush but quickly shot up to 8 feet in 2nd flush. Lesson learned: I won't buy any roses grafted-on-Dr.Huey even if it's $5 like Lavender Crush. Long pause in between flushes with Dr.Huey-rootstock in my zone 5.


  • joeywyomingz4b
    last month

    You are making me glad I didn't buy the expensive and mostly dead Lavender Crush at Home Depot. I was tempted by everyone's glamorous pictures but Dr Huey doesn't do well for me either. Thank you for sharing your not so great roses as well as the successful ones!

    strawchicago z5 thanked joeywyomingz4b
  • portlandmysteryrose
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I just received an own root Purple Lodge from a friend with a spare! 🎉🤸🏻‍♀️🎉🤸🏻‍♀️🎉🤸🏻‍♀️🎉🤸🏻‍♀️🎉🤸🏻‍♀️🎉🤸🏻‍♀️ Thank you for enabling, everyone!!

    Strawberry, I love Frances Dubreuil/Barcelona, too! I think both of our areas suffer blackspot pressure, so it seems telling that we both have healthy plants. Those velvety blooms and to-die-for fragrance are just beyond description, right? How many Poseidons do you grow? I have the impression that we both love this lavender rose. If only the scent were stronger it would be nigh perfect! Mine is grafted on Multiflora (Palatine) and is a powerfully strong grower, completely healthy and an absolute bloom machine. Is yours own root or grafted? I think I’ll be hanging out at the Palatine starting gate this fall, ready to leap at the chance of another! If I don’t have room for it, I think my sister will.

    Carol

    Frances Dubreuil and Poseidon






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  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    last month

    Carol, yay, Purple Lodge. I cant wait to see hoe how they do. Mine had its first purple bloom a couple of days ago and it was so pretty.


    Is Francis Dubruiel aldo called Barcelona ? It is really a fabulous color.

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  • portlandmysteryrose
    last month

    Kristine, We are Purple Lodge sisters! 🙌 Yes, I honestly think there is no way that FD is actually FD, but he is quite likely to be Barcelona. Every time I smell the velvety red blossoms, I want to burst into song like Freddie Mercury and Montserrat Caballe! 😂 Carol

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  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    How's the scent of Purple Lodge? Does the bloom last long? Thank You.

    I have only one Poseidon as 7th-year-own-root. It's big at 5' x 3', and is a continuous bloomer so I'm happy with just one. Pat Henry of Roses Unlimited recommends other continuous bloomers: Bliss Parfuma and Heaven on Earth so these are on my wish-list. Pic. below of own-root Poseidon was taken this July 1:


    Below was Poseidon when it was a younger own-root:


  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    last month

    Straw, mine is still new, even thought it had grown like crazy

    Blooms are still on the small side and finally turning more purple than

    Blooms last a few days and I haven't noticed a fragrance but my nose for fragrence is not the best. Maybe Portland can give a better account of fragrance.

    Oohhh la la on the beautiful Poseidon roses.

    strawchicago z5 thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
  • portlandmysteryrose
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Gorgeous Poseidon, Strawberry! My Purple Lodge is a baby, but definitely scented. Carol

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  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    last month

    I tried to smell my Purple Lodge and did not get much today. High was 99 F if that matters.

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  • Diane Brakefield
    last month

    None of my roses have any scent in this extended dry heat. Even Rouge Royale is not wafting from the small bouquet I picked a few hours ago. Diane

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  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    last month

    Sheila, how old and how big is your Purple Lodge?

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  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    last month
    last modified: last month

    My PL is not very large, maybe 3 ft if that, Kristine. Barcelona is larger and Munstead Wood is much larger. It seems to be a fine rose, but not as large as I was expecting.

    I got PL a few years ago from the Ludwig deal.

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  • rosecanadian
    last month

    Straw - your Poseidon is a really great bloomer!! Beautiful color!

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  • bart bart
    last month

    Sheila, just how big IS your Munstead Wood? I have to figure out where to put mine_I was under the impression that PL was alot bigget than MW!

  • portlandmysteryrose
    last month

    Bart, Sheila probably lives in a climate more similar to yours and can make a more accurate comparison, but in case it helps to know my Munstead’s dimensions, the one I grow (and ones friends grow) never seems to exceed around 3.5 feet when annually pruned. Carol

  • Diane Brakefield
    last month

    I have two Munsteads and they are in the 4.5' range and are annually pruned. The younger MW has the haphazard growth habit it's older sibling had. It's hard to estimate size until they straighten out their growth to a degree (about four years old). MW has a pretty crazy growth habit overall, but the many gorgeous blooms make up for this craziness. Diane

  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    last month

    Bart, I live close to Sheila and my Munstead is about 3 x3


  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I have 3 MW that I don't really prune. Mine are maybe 3-5 ft so far. My Purple Lodge is shorter and maybe 2.5 ft. I agree that I thought PL would be larger. I'll look on HMF to see if there are any huge ones.

    HMF says 31 in to 39 inch height and 20 in to 28 inch wide for PL. I don't know how I thought it was larger.

    It really is more Floribunda than Shrub rose I think.

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  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    last month

    Well that actually works for the space that I have for it