Olliesmom, Ninety six percent of American physicians are fully jabbed. These are people more than capable of understanding the facts and making a highly informed decision, and they have, en masse. Clearly there are not many doctors who have rejected the jab. Saying that there are makes it seem like there is a valid scientific reason for rejecting the science, and there is not.

I would link to the piece from the AMA on the subject, but the link has the "v" word, which II am not allowed to use here. Just Google AMA MD "v" rate.

You are off the subject, zalco. I agree with you that most doctors have been vaccinated! Terricks denist is vaccinated. I don't think his staff is anti-vaccine at all. I think they want to find out if they have the antibodies/Tcell immunity first. If they do, there is no sense in taking the vaccine if they don't feel comfortable doing so.

AGAIN, this has nothing to do with anti-vaccine. If you are immune, you are immune. That is the scientific facts. It's not hard to understand that. If you aren't immune already, I agree you should get the vaccine. Apparently, now there are talks about a booster because the vaccine isn't lasting very long. That is not the case with people with natural immunity.

I have no problem with your stated vaccine rate among physicians, so no need to google.

I hate to tell you this, but if you understand basic viral biology, concepts of epidemiology, and human immunity, and risk benefit analysis, you can understand the basics of disease transmission. And almost all of the folks who are experts in these areas agree on what the basic principles are. Doctors and dentists theoretically are capable of "doing their own research" but that doesn't mean they are or will. And if they do, if they are truly competent professionals, they will not be using casual Internet searches, but instead peer reviewed rigorous and comprehensive medical studies. Which, BTW, is what the CDC and other medical agencies use. Folks may disagree on some of the finer points of the data interpretation, but not on the processes. And this disease is new, so if I was advising patients, I would be working pretty darn hard to stay abreast of new findings. And the findings are going to come out of the same medical research institutions that are researching other infectious diseases and how to prevent their spread. They have the background to produce productive results.

There are lots of doctors out there who go for the low hanging fruits. I've been to some. Overall, their care has been mediocre. The ones who go with just what a magazine or pharmaceutical company will tell them are probably OK under common circumstances. But here's an example of that mediocrity, a friend of mine was misdiagnosed for a decade because the doctors just followed the initial INCORRECT diagnosis of the first doctor she went to. It was only because a physical therapist she was sent to looked at her x-rays and said, "It doesn't appear that you have what you have been sent here for me to treat" that she was able to find a doctor who correctly diagnosed her problem. Turns out she had an esophageal problem and doctors never bothered to x-ray that area. They looked at her vocal chords, throat and lungs, but never in between. And they treated her with steroids for asthma for years that had serious side effects for her general health. Doctors get it wrong all the time, which is why there are groups of doctors who work together to widen their perspectives. A good doctor will of course join such groups, but a good doctor will be able to tell the difference between people who are just blowing smoke and those who are prudent and wise.

If my dentist made such silly (yes silly if you are a scientist) assertions about immunity I would fast find another one. There is absolutely no way anyone knows about their individual antibody results without testing, and even with testing, the results are not black and white, immunity waxes and wanes. Research into covid immunity is ongoing and even in situations where we have been researching immunity for years, it is a very complicated and difficult system. Ask anyone who has an immune system disorder, they can attest to that! Which is why a prudent doctor would err on the side of caution! I think it might be fine if they are actually going to get tested for covid antibodies, but who knows if that is actually ever going to happen. I do know people who have been tested for the antibodies. The science on the interplay between having had covid and the vaccine is not definitive, so if I was erring on the side of caution and I thought I had covid, I would get an antibody test. However, I know numerous people (including the former president) who had covid and also got a covid vaccination. One of my best friends and my cousin are other examples. So some folks are fine with the existing science and are getting the jab. But this is an area where there might be some disagreement since there is not a whole lot of data yet. However, I would certainly get my antibodies tested if I was a doctor and I was going to make grand statements about my own immunity. I wouldn't do it without any supporting data.

Before one ventures anywhere it would do him/her well to study the vaccination rate of the area. At our primary address, vaccination rates are high and most still wear masks; at our vacation address, low 'local' vaccination rates and few masks. We model our behavior accordingly. We have no problem wearing a mask. I've read through this thread, and think one aspect has not been covered? Even vaccinated, one may not have severe illness, hospitalization, or death. However, there is always the possibility of long-term Covid illness- that is enough for me to wear a mask and make 'smart choices' re my activities!

Olliesmom, why don't you share the new and updated information with us? I'm not sure what you are talking about.

I mentioned up-thread three members of a family we know who are sick with covid right now. We read on our high school group page this weekend where the brother of a classmate died last week from Covid. He was 65.

Sadly here in my area the covid rates, while still low, are climbing slightly. Any restaurant we have been to, employees are still masked. The same is true for some businesses, so I have heard. I have had no need to shop and I do grocery pick up, drive through banking, etc. although we do go out-to-eat and to church. So, I've stil not been in many businesses. We've traveled once already (May) and will do so again next week. When we went in May, places were still taking (reasonable) precautions and we really had no concerns. I hope we find the same true next week.

I'm afraid that my dentist is ignoring everything that he may have learned about biology and virology and is listening to particular media sources. Yes, Covid is a new virus, but it is still a virus (a highly infectious one), and it's doing what viruses do.

hmmm...good question. My last hair appt. everyone was still wearing masks and I had already gotten the vaccine. I think I had asked my stylist if she was vaccinated and she said no. I have an appt this weekend, will be interesting to see if she's masked up or not, not knowing if she has gotten vaccinated since the last appointment.

I too still wear a mask going into stores even though I'm vaccinated.

Jb1586—-how would you advise patients to proceed?

I feel very sheepish asking my dentist if he and his employees are jabbed. Again, anyone can lie about their V status, especially if their livlihood is at stake. Are dentists, hygienists, receptionists going to admit they’re not not jabbed and risk the practice losing patients? I don’t think drs and dentists can require employees be vaccinated or even ask if they are at this point.

Surely the ADA reads and keeps up with all the pertinent data and establishes Covid protocols for all dental practices to follow. The problem is jabs have become so politicized by one side, can we trust our drs and dentists to follow those protocols and believe the science? No doubt most do, but Terriks example clearly shows some do not.

I live in a red state and assume most of the dentists in my area are R—-not a problem before Covid, but now there’s no way of knowing just how R they might be. My dentist has taken down any mention of Covid from his website or how the practice is currently dealing with it. This does not inspire confidence. I’m due for a cleaning but am still deciding if I should switch, but who to? My neighbor was joking that drs and dentists should now list party affiliation after their name!

I certainly get it about a doctor and his staff having a right to privacy. There are ways to convey your safety beliefs and practices without going into personal specifics. In fact, if a doctor isn't able to speak about virus issues in that way, that already calls their professional judgement into question IMHO. A competent doctor would not resort of a vague description of what his pandemic management policies were, without any reference to a data source (and no, saying "government" data is not trustworthy is not the same thing as providing your reliable data source). Also, the doctor could convey how he and his staff were managing immunity issues without going into the specifics of individuals. Edited to add that most professions have developed pandemic abatement policies. For example, I belong to the professional group for landscapers, and they have developed "best practice" recommendations for their members. And I'm sure the same can be said of the restaurant business. I just went to a restaurant last week that had a whole poster on what measures they were following and where they came from. Still didn't make the experience a guarantee of safety, but made me feel confident doing business with them. They clearly took their work seriously in all respects which was evident from all other aspects of the business, including customer service and the quality of the food. I also get that businesses are struggling with staffing issues right now, so that is part of the service issue.

I didn't use the word "silly" to trigger anything, because from a logic standpoint, the same institutions that train dentists and doctors are the ones that do the research on virology and also the same scientific process that goes into studying viruses and recommending treatment goes into all the other disease and health issues doctors treat. Maybe not the same department, but the management and process of these medical research institutions is similar across the board. If the CDC and the John's Hopkins school of medicine can't make good recommendations on a medical matter, who can??

Now I certainly understand that the medical and research profession has been rightly criticized for being conservative (read "overly cautious") and guilty of only listening to certain established voices. But again, prudent professionals get that, and will seek out a wide spectrum of thoughts on an issue, and will certainly admit that there are other possible factors at play that either aren't known or at present poorly studied. But again, erring on the side of caution, they will always go with what they think will do the least harm. And as more data becomes available, they will modify their stances.

But what scientists never do, is make grand assertions with very little data. When they do, they are speaking from emotion and philosophy, not science. And there's nothing wrong with them doing that either, but competent and prudent scientists make that clear, crystal clear.

The reason I would have my doubts about the dentist in question is not because he is admitting that the covid disease has a lot of unknowns and a lot more research needs to be done. What would bother me is his approach to that situation. There are tons of medical issues a doctor must deal with all the time that are similar.

If a doctor can explain to me with valid sources his policies, no matter what the issue, I will feel a lot more confident in going to them as opposed to someone who brings politics, whatever the spectrum, into the matter. In fact, I left my dentist long before the pandemic, precisely because he kept talking politics in his office while treating me. It had absolutely nothing to do with our work and was quite annoying and unprofessional in my mind. Why should I have to sit and listen reality TV or grievance news or any other number of annoying media. At least with magazines you can chose whether to read them or not! And what kind of professional works with the TV on all the time in the background?? Where is their focus??

Joanie, I'm sorry that your dentist has removed the Covid information from his website. When this topic came up several months ago, my husband and I were still in practice, and v's were not yet available. We did quite a bit to make patients feel safe, while getting their dental work and cleanings done. Shields, special masks, air purifiers, etc. I responded back then, and still believe, that the dental personnel are really at greater risk than the patients, of getting the virus. Whether staff and dentists are v'd or not, if the proper protocols are in place, we felt that our patients were safe and protected. That being said, I would expect and hope that all of our former staff would be v'd to take care of themselves and protect others, if they were still in our employ. In Terri's case, her dentist seems to be spouting such nonsense and incorrect science, that I would question his/her judgement in general. That is why I recommended finding another office. In your case, if your dentist no longer has protocols in place, to make the patients feel safe, then I would find another office, whether or not the dentist and staff have been v'd. It is a tough question to ask the office, but if it is your dealbreaker, by all means, you should go ahead and question them regarding the "jab". If they are not vaccinated, you might still be safe, but I guess I would wonder how seriously infection control is being taken. I hope that you can find an office in your area that doesn't care about politics, but does care about the science.

Thank you for the information JB1586.

Back to the original thread, I continue to wear a mask in stores, even though I have been vaccinated. I am definitely in the minority. The Delta variant is a concern. I read an article last night, about an entertainment journalist who was fully vaccinated, and caught the Delta variant. Not hospitalized, but still quite sick. She is imploring people to still wear masks...I worry that things have opened back up too soon.

This entire family - all except the youngest had gotten the shot got Covid

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2021/07/06/our-family-got-vaccinated-then-we-all-got-covid/

A couple of weeks ago, the second map on this page was all yellow, except for MA and VT, which were green. Now take a look: https://covidactnow.org/?s=2040960, and it's only going to get worse.

terriks I had not seen that from John Pavlovitz - yikes.

Bookwoman you may be right that it's going to get worse - I'm playing ostrich here because I just don't want to think about it - can't think about it.

I'd like some input. Have not seen our DS, DIL and granddaughter since April 2019. Their trip to us in Nov 2019 was cancelled (not covid related) and then we all know what happened next. This spring we all planned our reunion and we bought tickets for them to come here in June but it didn't take long to realize they would be unable to keep their 3 year old masked for basically a 12 hour travel day. Trip cancelled. We just made reservations 3 days ago to go to them in Sept. Obviously our granddaughter will still be unvaccinated and now I'm worried sick we could be exposed during our travels and bring it there. How on earth can families who have an un-jabbed family member (due to age or other conditions or whatever) safely get together? We cannot go for a month and spend a week in quarantine when we get there. I know all the stuff about kids having far less risk but there are kids (ages unspecified but not jabbed) in intensive care units and on ventilators clustered in areas of vax hesitancy - that's not something we have seen before. I trust my vax and take precautions to boost that efficacy but a 3 year old doesn't have that option. Now I'm freaking out - what the heck do we do?

I have asked 'the question' of several people I know and/or work with. Most are vaxxed, but I do find it concerning and even alarming, the number of people who manage to rationalize their way out of going and getting the jab.

Continuing to wear masks in any public setting - even outdoors. I'd rather not take such a risk.

I also appreciate not getting colds, etc. as a bonus.

And just gotta love the 'I know something you don't know' assertions from 'researchers' with zero evidence or proof...😄

Yeah, the growing number of cases again with this Delta variant is very disconcerting. We are driving from MN to NC for a wedding in August. At least the wedding and reception are outdoors and even covered outdoors if it rains. We're staying in an individual cabin. However I feel like I'll be needing to take the same travel precautions I took when we drove to TX in March. Hopefully something about this coming surge in cases will bring the all-about-me anti-vaxers to their senses. The impact on children who can't get the jab is frightening and it's unfathomable to me how someone can see that and still insist on not getting the jab. And the poor people with compromised immune systems.....ugghh

DLM, I feel your pain. I think that the only way to be completely safe, is to wear a mask the entire time you are around your granddaughter. I don’t know how realistic that would be for you.

@jb1586 thank you for understanding. Had a long talk with my DIL last night and we came up with a plan. Her mom will be visiting in 2 weeks and will be doing the 'test run' of the same plan.

DLM, Every activity poses potential risks. Only you can decide, really. Your DIL could ask her pediatrician if that helps?

@mtnrdredux_gw great idea.

I think at some point, just as with the testing for covid infection, that testing for covid antibodies will become less expensive, faster and more easily available. When the pandemic first started, hubs just couldn't stay away from his family (son and grandkids) but he quarantined before going and upon coming back and they were quarantined so it was just bubble to bubble. He had to drive 45 miles to a scheduled-way-in-advance appointment to get tested for covid and it was almost a week before he got his results, before breaking quarantine. Last two trips, it's a quick swab at our local pharmacy and practically next day or day after results. Perhaps at some point the antibody test will become another tool. Just like the covid test, it isn't foolproof, but it is another set of data that can inform decisions. I guess being a scientist I am used to having to figure out what is a prudent course of action knowing there is no such thing as perfect information or perfect safety, etc. A lot of people owe their existence to birth control that was 99% effective . . .

A Twitter thread from Eric Topol, MD about Delta contagion, places and events where jabbed people have been sickened.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1416047347641905153

I saw a quote the other day:

"The difference between a Conspiracy Theory and the TRUTH is about six months."

Sounds about right on most things the media puts out on this Covid crap.

Sigh. I was hoping to finally see some family members out of state but dh and I are re-thinking the plan. Everyone we would see is vaccinated, but one family has a brand new baby and other child is also unvaccinated. Anecdotally, it does seem that vaccinated people are getting laid low by the Delta variant, and not just a few.

More from Eric Topol:

Instead of achieving population-level (herd) immunity, whereby >70% jabbed wind up protecting those w/o immunity, the very high contagiousness of Delta has flipped the model—"un-herd" immunity—the unjabbed are infecting each other and the vaccinated.

Edited to replace the "v" word with jabbed and unjabbed.

Is the v word considered bad here?

I see it used above.

Vaccine

Bunny, most posters can use it. I cannot.

Oh, I thought that the word “vaccine” had been banned or flagged, in previous threads. That’s why I used ”v’s in my threads, rather than vaccine.

Hey Zalco - one of your "v" words made it through!

So I am off the naughty list :-) Yay! Thanks for the heads up.

Terriks, your original post is up, with the v word and no sight of the conversation we had.

Where my husband works in S. Florida there has been a few new cases recently. All those newly diagnosed were previously va -ccinated by the top two most common va-cx. One group were all of senior age and had dined out together. All have mild flu symptoms and tested positive . I was bummed to learn I have no real protection after my two doses . I just don’t want to believe it. I know it could be a new strand or possibly the vax-z has an extremely short lifespan, either way, I expected more out of it. Not sure I’ll inject anymore mystery cures in the future.

All have mild flu symptoms and tested positive. I was bummed to learn I have no real protection after my two doses .

You do, though...as witnessed by the mild cases you know about. The vaccines don't give 100% protection from catching the virus, but they seem to be extremely effective in preventing severe disease and death.

The vaccines were never meant to 100 percent prevent infection they were designed to prevent severe illness and death and they are doing that very successfully. 100 percent of LA covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated people!

The former FDA director pointed out that likely 3 to 10 percent of fully vaccinated people might have thought they had allergies or a slight cold but likely had covid. He based this on the info that shows 3 to 10 percent breakthrough infections are expected according to the preliminary efficacy studies.

Vaccinated people make up less than 1 percent of covid deaths. For now vaccination is working very well!

I had covid and “later” got my two va-x doses. My covid was fairly mild. At the time I was sixty. I have other ailments so was surprised I had a light case. I wanted to believe I was superwoman after then getting extra protection with the V-ax.

All have mild flu symptoms and tested positive. I was bummed to learn I have no real protection after my two doses .

You do, though...as witnessed by the mild cases you know about. The vaccines don't give 100% protection from catching the virus, but they seem to be extremely effective in preventing severe disease and death.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, older people often don't develop as robust an antibody response when vaccinated.

One has to ask about the elephant in the room: Why are all these vaccinated people getting Covid? Particularly Pfizer. Does anyone else think this is just so strange? Of course, it is not strange at all the "unvaccinated/never had Covid before" people would get it, but hearing SO MANY of the vaccinated getting it, and spreading it among themselves, is kind of mindblowing.

Um, from an astute observation above: The vaccines were never meant to 100 percent prevent infection they were designed to prevent severe illness and death and they are doing that very successfully.

??? @OllieJane What elephant? The vaccine is not 100% that you won”t get covid, but will pretty well keep you from having a serious case. Here, 97% of those currently hospitalized with covid, DID NOT take the vaccine.

@OllieJane From the beginning of vaccine roll out we were told that no vaccine was 100% effective, Pfizer hoping for a 92% rate.

The number of vaccinated who have contracted Covid is still less then 10% of those who received the vaccine. .

Those who do get sick and are vaccinated are usually not as sick as the unvaccinated.

Olliesmom, all that matters to me is that nobody gets severly ill from Covid. Severe illness and death are what the jabs protect you from.

Feom NPR:

"There is a clear message that is coming through: This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated," Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC's director, said at a Friday briefing of the White House COVID-19 Response Team. "Our biggest concern is we are going to continue to see preventable cases, hospitalizations and sadly deaths among the unvaccinated."

THE CORONAVIRUS CRISIS

COVID Cases In Parts Of Missouri And Arkansas Surge To Levels Not Seen Since Winter

The upward trend in national statistics is being driven almost entirely by outbreaks in places with low vaccination rates, such as the Ozarks, Florida and parts of the Mountain West. Some counties, especially in Missouri and Arkansas, are recording more cases now than they did during the winter.

"Unvaccinated Americans account for virtually all recent COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths," said Jeff Zients, the White House COVID-19 response coordinator. "Each COVID-19 death is tragic, and those happening now are even more tragic because they are preventable."

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017002907/u-s-covid-deaths-are-rising-again-experts-call-it-a-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated

Agreed Zalco, and believe me, I am happy and fully aware (Ida) that the vaccines seems to be working to keep people out of hospitals. That's what the media tells us. However, that is not the case in other countries-another strange data that doesn't vibe with the U.S. data. I have to do more research on that though. So, you cannot be honest and think it is strange it is apparently spreading amongst those vaccinated? Was that your assumption when you took the vaccine? I think most people thought the vaccine was 90% in NOT getting Covid at all, therefore having immunity. And now, we have the problem of Covid spreading among those vaccinated.

eta: My understanding is there were always going to be pockets of Covid in the "unvaccinated/never yet infected with Covid" people around the U.S. And, that Covid is never going to be at zero. But, I was not expecting so many vaccinated, getting Covid again.

OM, your use of the "so many" descriptor is inaccurate. As a percentage of the vaccinated population, it is very, very small. For example, if the vaccine is 98% effective and 100 million people get the vaccine, then there is a potential for 2,000,000 individual events of a breakthrough infection, give or take, but 98,000,000 people would still be protected, a vastly larger number. 98 million not infected vs 2 million infections. And we're not even covering how serious those 2M infections become or how virulent the strain of virus going around is, or who is being infected, their medical risks, which will also effect the numbers. There's not much perfection in the natural world. That's statistics. Anecdotes are just that, individual events, not trends. Is 2M a large number, yes, but compared to 100 million, no. Vaccines don't stop research on transmission prevention or disease treatment either, so we have many tools in the toolbox.

Nothing about the events surprises, confuses or baffles people who care to know how viruses, vaccines and public health measures work. The less the virus spreads and replicates, the less chance of mutation away from vaccine and immune system protection. Which is why we want to tamp down a pandemic, whenever and wherever it happens. That is, if we are concerned with human health, writ large. Actually, plant and animal diseases also threaten economic livelihoods and food supply and other goods, so anyone who manages any natural system is familiar with these risk analyses.

Edited to add that even I had to edit my numbers twice. The powers of ten are confusing, I'll give you that much.

I haven't asked "the question" yet, but among friends we discuss it. At some small shops nearby that I frequent often I know their policies, as well as recollecting how well they handled the event during the time when masks were mandatory. I also go into shops, and depending on how many people usually patronize at a time, I will wear a mask or not.

In big box stores, I wear my mask always - unless I get to Tractor Supply first thing in the morning, when the only person I might be remotely near is the cashier - and the Plexiglas shield is still up.

I haven't had my hair cut since mid March (2020), and I am rather interested in seeing how it grows out. Right now on hot days I'm actually glad I can tie it back (and I am retired, so no one I need impress).

Comcast will be installed here next Friday - I don't plan on asking the guy, but I figure there's no need for me to be within six feet of the service installer for more than five minutes at a time.

I was down in Connecticut this past Wednesday -- it appears that at all stores and the two restaurants I visited, staff appear to be required to wear masks no matter what. Didn't see one staffer at any of those places I dropped into, without. ( wore mine at those shops.)

One is supposed to be fully vaxxed to enter into public spaces un-masked, but no idea who is faking, and who is real. Not my business to ask - and potentially receive a lie.

I had an inperson appointment with my Endocrinologist yesterday. I must say I like the new check-in portocol. All paper work and payment complete via text. when I arrived at the office a text saying come in, please where a mask. I walked in and was met by the doctor’s assistant and taken directly to the exam room. After the exam, the assistant came back and we set my next appt and all was done.

What was sad was that there was only one person working the business area. This office used to have at least 6 working the front. Hope they still have jobs somewhere?

Surprisingly, I was never asked if I have been vaccinated.

On the way home I stopped at Target. It wasn’t crowded and most shoppers and workers were wearing masks…

.

So, you cannot be honest and think it is strange it is apparently spreading amongst those vaccinated? In our area I would say "spreading" is not true. We have some new cases, but not a large number. Some are attributed to a variant. We knew in the beginning the vaccine was not 100% and that there could be new variants pop up which could cause problems. Here they are talking about more children coming down with Covid, but thankfully, for the most part, they are not getting seriously ill. Still, some parents are worried about children heading back to school soon.

Was that your assumption when you took the vaccine? I think most people thought the vaccine was 90% in NOT getting Covid at all, therefore having immunity. No that was not my assumption nor was it the assumption of most people I talked to about covid and the vaccine. If you researched, listened to the CDC and the local health department(s), it was always said that the vaccine was 90-something percent effective in preventing serious cases/hospitalization. That has worked! Our hospitalization is down dramatically! Also, you can get those numbers from the hospitals directly, not just the media. I remember when my dad was hospitalized last October and my sister and I were so worried about him being in the hospital while Covid was present. We watched the numbers in that particular hospital start at 2 and slowly rise, never very high while dad was there. Weeks later, it was near 200 in that one hospital. Numbers are back down although there are a few covid cases in that hospital. The county health departments report the death numbers, which at present are in the single digits.

I will say that we had a church member pass away last week from Covid. An older woman and her husband both contracted Covid, as did one of their grandsons. The older couple have health issues and live in an area of their daughter's home. Not sure who of the three first contracted it. I'm also not sure if the lady who died was vaccinated as she had several health issues and she may have been cautioned in being vaccinated. Her husband has been well enough to be home, other than a short period after being told of her death (he went into shock). The grandson (teen) has been the least sick of the three.

I am not a shopper and other than our recent trip and a couple of antique stores in surrounding cities, I have avoided shopping. We do eat out but mostly still aim for less than peak times. I am still doing grocery pick-up although I will go occasionally to pick up meat and to the small produce market. Basically what I am saying is we are living pretty much back to normal, but taking precautions. It is rare to see a place require a mask but many businesses have signs on the door that say mask suggested or something similar. I kept a bag of masks with us on our trip and we still have them in our vehicles, etc. in case they are needed.

Olliesmom, I just saw your reply now, my apologies. I always understood there would be breakthrough infections because we have always been told the efficacy of the jabs. We learned from the start that different formulations were tested in different environments and had a certain success rate. Add to that that the virus is widespread and mutating amongst unjabbed populations worldwide. I had no expectation of this jab being like my childhood ones that protect me from mostly extinct diseases (diseases which were completely extinct, like measels, pertussis, et al. until the likes of Jenny McCarthy got traction.)

Zalco, the breakthroughs are going through the roof for the vaccinated.

I think below is what most Americans expected from the vaccine:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/vpd-vac-basics.html

Note where it says it provides immunity and prevents disease. That is not happening.

My doctor says there is 5% of the population that will not get ANY immunity at all; either from natural immunity or from vaccine-some people just don't have immunity. BUT, when a vaccine says it is over 90% effective-and they apparently are not...we deserve to question and require transparency of these drug companies and CDC. If they aren't telling us everything about this, what else are they NOT telling us. Exactly why so many people do not trust our government.

eta: Fauci 5/19: “If you are vaccinated, you can feel safe—that you will not get infected either outdoors or indoors”

- Sorry, but I'm just a little p!ssed about it.