What rose(s) are you considering purchasing? Rock solid hardy* roses should be fine. For anything else, I've always considered July 4th as the cutoff date.

Rock solid hardy means something that should experience *no* dieback for you after a normal winter. This does *not* mean a rose that some dartboard somewhere has determined is hardy to your zone, or even several zones colder.

Gene Boerner, a floribunda. I just received a notice from Rogue Valley today that they have available roses. I would consider it to be a fairly hardy rose. I have never purchased any roses from Rogue Valley before. But, I do value your opinion mad-gallica. I was reading yours and Veldfire's posts years ago when I first started to learn about rose growing. Plus, your locality gives you a better understanding of our winter weather.

I'm still planting bands. The extreme heat has slowed down planting, so they're going in the ground late. I have planted bands in the fall with no problems at all. It's not recommended, but since I only buy roses rated for my zone or colder, it has worked out fine.

Yes, I can also relate to the heat problem. But, I would also look for a spot where it didn't get a full day of sunlight. What are your winters like? That is what I am concerned about. Gene Boerner is suited for my zone, I just wasn't sure how quickly they could establish any roots. Do you add anything to your planting hole..e,g, bone meal? Or, just Neptune's Fish?

Are you Scranton area?

It's not the winters necessarily. It's a combination of the winters and the summers. Unlike places further west, we don't get the summer heat that makes own-root modern roses grow and establish quickly. So they just sit there and don't do much, and next thing you know it is winter.

So I'd say it would be worth trying in 6a if you were planting around Memorial Day. However, if you order now, by the time you get it, it will be almost August. Then it will barely get started before things really cool down, and the growing season is at an end.

No, I live outside of Allentown. Approx. 60 miles NW of Philadelphia. I am losing it.. forgive me... I am not 6A I am 6B. I have brain fog from overworking my brain today! :-) Our fall weather has changed whereas October and November have been abnormally warm. I have been able to stretch my fertilizing until the beginning of Sept. The leaves change color later than years ago. We've had a climate change. Which is why I "thought" I could take a chance? Our winters have become a real "freeze-thaw". It can get abnormally cold and then abnormally warm.

Rockyrose, if you're asking me, our winters have changed from a solid, consistent snow cover a couple feet deep to mild with freeze thaw cycles all winter. We have not had a true z5 winter for many years. I add manure, a handful of rose food and anything else laying around to mostly compost to fill the hole. My native soil is pale, dead dirt that nothing will grow in.

Allentown, hmmm, I really don't know what to tell you. In various previous lives, I infested many suburbs of Philly. There, in the tropics, you can get away with a great deal. However, by those standards, Allentown is cold. Even Doylestown is cold.

Unless you are getting temperature swings where the lows are below zero, and the highs are high enough and long enough that the roses are breaking dormancy, those aren't a big deal. You just cannot winter protect, but you can't do that in the northeast anyway. The freeze-thaw-aphobes have never spent a winter in Philadelphia, where every day is freeze-thaw. I even had a special winter jacket for 30F and raining.

The ice storms could be gorgeous.

flowersaremusic, yes I was talking to you. :-) So you are also experiencing different winters than from the past. Can't it be so confusing sometimes? The reason I asked what you put in your planting hole was that when buying own-root roses from Heirloom, they have been very emphatic about not adding any dry fertilizer till after the first year. Normally I always mix the soil with Espoma rose food, bone meal and manure if I have some around. I never planted a band before, my impression is that it would be smaller than Heirlooms own roots?

mad_gallica, you "infested" suburbs of Philadelphia? That's hilarious! I am impressed that you also know Doylestown! No, (knock on wood) we have not been seeing any winters as of recent below 0. And, no breaking dormancy. We did have over 3 feet of snow last winter. I had planted 3 new own-root roses. I planted an Eden climber late because we replaced our fence and arbor. (Naturally, I have high hopes that Eden will take off next year to start growing on the arbor) They all survived buried under the snow for a few weeks. But, isn't that what own-root roses are supposed to do...be much hardier for colder winters? I think I will go for it!

I waited too long. My rose is gone! Cannot believe their stock waitlist didn't even last 24 hours!

Rocky, that Heirloom advice holds for people who would ever want a refund. You could actually do whatever if you won't be asking Heirloom for a refund. Some of us have such bad "soil'" we might be compelled to add to the planting hole at our own risk.

I don't blame Heirloom for their strict advice because some people really overdo everything.

isn't that what own-root roses are supposed to do...be much hardier for colder winters?

Nope. If you are talking about a rose that has any business whatsoever to be grown where you are, root hardiness isn't an issue. It might become an issue if you like science experiments, and wonder if you can possibly grow hybrid gigantea in zone 6 if it is grafted onto multiflora, but that is waaay beyond where most people's brains live. As someone who has 'successfully' overwintered Mutabilis through -18F, and seen Manetti grown practically next door, root hardiness can be ignored.

Which brings us to the elephant in the greenhouse. My biggest problem, by far, in successfully overwintering marginal roses is getting them to grow once winter has cut them back. Since the entire point in budding most roses is to make them more vigorous, and the thing I need the most out of a marginal rose is more vigor, Voila, give me budded roses every time. They grow. They bloom. I have an own-root Abraham Darby that is 25 year old, and 18" tall. The only reason I still have it is because it isn't worth digging out.

Sheila, thanks for the heads up on Heirloom. I am new to planting own-root roses. My concern was survival, because their roses are not cheap. Are you affiliated with Rogue Valley Roses? If so, I just sent an email asking to be placed on a cancellation list and a waitlist for next spring. I was so worried if it was too late to take a chance on my rose surviving the winter, I lost out! Next time I will know better!

Rockyrose, what Sheila said is absolutely true and good advice. If you do something other than what the vendor tells you, you have no recourse if your rose dies. I KNOW a rose is not going to live in my native soil, so I always amend, but I do so at my own risk.

Rocky, I am not affiliated with RVR, but have many great plants from them. I seem to be more attracted to the roses that are often sold own root. I had great own roots in Alaska that were hardy. I know grafted roses can benefit from the boosted vigor if they are wimpy. I usually just wanted the rose natural and it has mostly worked out.

I probably prefer that in people too. I guess we all have our own individual slant on the topic. I never lived in the in between zones. I started z4, then z3 and now z8.

I really love the old cemetery roses living 100 years with no care. On the other hand, my property could be too rough and natural for some people and there are many styles of beauty.

They sent me a terrible specimen of Marianne and refused to replace it.
50 bucks down the drain for a dead stem.
One of my worst experiences ever shopping online.
Carla in Sac

Oh no. I recently placed an order for 2 Barden roses even though I knew I might risk getting incorrect roses but where else has Barden roses, at least these ones...I've never ordered from RVR before....I'm worried about my money now, Carla. I'm sorry to hear from your experience and worried about mine. (Just got into roses last year and lurking here ever since)

mad_gallica I was referring to own-root vs. grafted roses as a survival rate. No one can predict any odd weather patterns these days...and there seems to be a lot of them anymore.

My biggest problem, by far, in successfully overwintering marginal roses is getting them to grow once winter has cut them back. Since the entire point in budding most roses is to make them more vigorous, and the thing I need the most out of a marginal rose is more vigor, Voila, give me budded roses every time. They grow.

Please forgive my ignorance, what are you referring to when you speak of "budded roses" I agree that it is quite frustrating to bring back a rose that has been freeze-damaged. A few years back we had one of those freak winters, we hadn't seen in years. Many people, myself included, lost rose bushes. Now, maybe I could have worked harder to save a rose bush. But, when it is dead down to the ground, I didn't want to spend my short growing season being challenged in saving roses that I could replace with new ones that would give me the pleasure of blooms. I also HAD Abraham Darby. The blooms were beautiful; but, he spread too much blackspot. My 18 inch rose is Tournament of Roses! I just keep feeding and watering it. It doesn't die nor does it grow! If you find the answer to that mystery, PLEASE SHARE!!

flowersaremusic, I can relate to bad soil. I have heavy clay soil. My husband helped me by digging BIG holes and filling them with topsoil, peat moss and manure. I have been amending it through the years with Espoma products along with manure and good old alfalfa.

Sheila, I know you can grow roses in Alaska; but, it still sounds amazing when you first hear it. I think of ice glaciers and polar bears :-) Did you find rose growing challenging? How many years did it take for your own root to grow into a beautiful bush? I have a Carefree Wonder that has done really well in growth for being planted just last year. But, the stems are wimpy. But, then again, so are my years old David Austins! I do agree with you, I too, like a more natural landscape. Isn't it wonderful that we all see beauty in a different variation?

Carla in Sac, did this just happen recently? I did read some bad reviews on Rogue Valley Roses. It seems there were complaints to which a new business manager responded to them apologizing and was offering to correct the situation. He seemed sincere and told the people to contact him. Everyone had the same complaint about how rude, Janet, the owner is. I would give it a try. Tell him you heard it from the Rose Forum. Anyone in the rose business knows about the Rose Forum and the vast number of rose growers who read it!

Rockyrose, I’m near Pittsburgh and still planting roses. I try to aim for the days where it’s not to hot. Hopefully Saturay I will plant 3 bands; Earth Angel, Cream Veranda and Mother of Pearl. All the roses I had planted last year did well! I actually lost some roses that I overwintered in the garage.

k w... the same advice to you as Carla, should you have a problem with RVR. I was a more active member years ago and now I just check in occasionally. You have come to the right place to learn about rose growing. There is no better place on the entire web where you will learn more and continue to learn, even after many years of rose growing. You can read general advice columns, blogs, etc. But, on here you will find people in your own Zone, that can share advice based on the same growing conditions. Rose growing is a frustrating and very rewarding hobby! Good Luck!

I just have to put in a word that Janet, the owner of RVR, is in her 80s and doing the best she can. I really loved Vintage Roses, but they eventually pooped out as a nursery. There are issues there that are unfortunate but no one is trying to be malicious or rude. These businesses are not Wal Marts. They are individuals trying to carry on as best they can.

Best I could tell there were some 500+ roses in stock out of 1500 in their lineup. This is a huge job. Scott is much younger and could help as manager but probably is not familiar with all the roses. Throw in the pandemic, blocks on immigration, and the heat dome and I'm amazed they can manage it at all.

Growing roses in Alaska was limited to zone 3 hardy or so for me. It was doable.

Thank you for the welcome rockyrose. I've enjoy reading the forum. And, Sheila, I've noticed that you try to bring in perspective on RVR. I have worked for small businesses before, and I understand that it's not personal or malicious/rude. I don't take it personally. However, on the consumer side, the desire for the correct item for the money spent is also a concern of mine. From what I can tell, it's not always a miss...people have gotten correct roses from RVR as well, and incorrect roses occur with every nursery. (The small business I worked for was for an older gentleman as his "retirement" job with collectible stamps -- another area that is rife with potential missing/incorrect stamp identification). What matters is how the company handles such situations -- and only time will tell for my personal experience :)

*edit:

So I want to apologize for the off-topic posts on this thread to @rockyrose

And to also say that I ordered from RVR despite knowing some issues with sending incorrect roses because I wanted to give them/take a chance on them because I know that personal experience varies, people tend to post negative experiences more than positive, and that @Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR has mentioned that there are new workers (i.e. hot Scott, haha :) there recently which hopefully means a different experience. I'll post on a new thread if I have a positive experience with them, but since I requested an October ship date (due to the heat wave/summer heat in general) it may be some time (2022) before I can really tell.

And on an aside, I think it's @Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR's full bush shots of Dakota Redwing I've seen on Houzz that has convinced me to want this rose bad enough to take a chance :)

The difference between budded roses and grafted roses is the exact technique to attach the scion to the understock. Budding roses uses only the small growing points of the scion rose, while grafting requires a small cutting. Large scale commercial propagators, like Palatine, will always bud roses since it requires a lot less scion material. Sometimes small scale 'own-root' propagators will graft roses for special purposes. Mike Lowe used to graft almost all of his HPs because they grew much better that way, and some other roses that were particularly difficult to propagate own-root. I think Burlington may do the same, though I don't know.

So long as the union between the scion and the understock is planted at the appropriate level for the climate, there is nothing about being own-root that makes a rose hardier. The part above ground is genetically the same, but roses with an understock usually grow and mature faster. Maturing faster does add hardiness, since the canes are older and thicker going into winter.

As for planting your roses in heavily amended holes, the only thing I'll say is that if they start getting chlorotic in the next few weeks, you may have to dig them up and pot them for a while. Roses can handle living underwater for a lot longer than most people think, but there are limits.

Do RVR ever offer a sale or coupon?

They give free roses with every 4 ordered. Look at their website.