Does anybody grow Violette? How does she compare to other roses in that color group? (I note that Moore used her a fair bit in his breeding.)

Lavender Crush has been a little better for me this year. I think that's due to our relatively wet spring and summer so far -- all my roses have been faring a good deal better, and I am starting to think LC is thirstier than most. (Mine is generally a xeriscaped garden, and I don't do much supplemental irrigation when I can avoid it.)

Thanks, Lynn, for the info on QS. I recently acquired her, and I have *got* to get the beast into the ground. (Was planning on building a rather nice trellis for her, but the cost of materials tripled, and I keep holding out waiting for an "adjustment" to the price of lumber these days.)

Philip, Mr. Moore used Violette because Veilchenblau and Baby Faurax gave him too many pinks and none of the purples and other mauve tones he sought. Had the earlier two worked, he likely would never have tried Violette. He was the ultimate pragmatist. I once asked him why he used Angel Farce to create his Halo roses when there were healthier, better mauves around. His answer? "Because I had it."

You mean other folks can hybridize according to other priorities, Kim? ;-)

The good news is that I do not own any plants now that I wouldn't want to use (as far as I know at this juncture) even if some combinations would have little to no merit.

Kim, have you played with Skyliner? Or others in this group? (Surely *somebody* has crossed Summer Wine with one of those Veilchenblaue-esque plants, no? )

Oh, people hybridize for all manner of reasons and quite a few with absolutely no goals or ideas in mind at all. I agree, I don't grow much I'm not interested in using and I rehome things I've decided aren't worth trying anything further with. I had both Perennial Blue and Purple Skyliner in Encino and they both HATED it there. I mean HATED it with a passion. Neither cared for arid, alkaline heat. I WANTED them both to be happy and for them both to eat the hill, but that was not to be. Purple Skyliner was the one with the fewer issues there (meaning in only had five or six hundred faults there instead of five hundred and one or so, hence Perennial Blue was rehomed elsewhere and Skyliner was left behind in the move to be bulldozed when they developed the property. I've never had Summer Wine, though a rose friend who lived in Sunland, not far from Theodore Payne, the noted CA Natives nursery, had it. It scared me because of its outrageous vigor in his garden, but it was a nice rose otherwise. It's made a lot of really nice, interesting things. The only two I have are Blue for You and Eyes for You and I do play with both of those.

I grow Violette, Phili. I find it very attractive here. I also grow Bleu Magenta and Veilchenblau and love those too.

It is left of center by Lavender Lassie. Farther back behind Sombreuil you can see a peak of Bleu Magenta. Spring bloomer and very healthy here. Attractive foliage.

Philipa, like Sheila, I also grow Violette and Veilchenblau. I’ve never tried breeding with them, though, so I know next to nothing about fertility, offspring color and such. Violette is very healthy, very floriforous and pretty much trouble-free here in Portland. Its bloom clusters are a gorgeous deep violet as the name boasts. Stunning! Midnight Blue is a really great rose for me. Always purple and always in bloom. Kim’s Purple Buttons is a gorgeous burgundy wine purple. Tom Carruth and Kim Rupert—they are 2 of my favorite breeders! I grow the last 2, smaller roses in pots and Violette over a large arch. Carol

Sheila, that is one, gorgeous cluster of purple and lavender blooms! Carol

I'm honored, Carol, thank you! Kim

Kim, did you say ”Angel Farce”?! Ha, ha. That’s hilarious! Me thinks it is definitely NOT a generous and trouble-free lavender rose for many of us. I started calling mine ”Devil Face” before putting it in a free pile by the curb. I was released from the curse as it was passed to another unsuspecting victim. Carol

Yes ma'am, it was the more socially acceptable version of its more official name...Angel Farts. There are two versions in commerce, and they mimic the two French Lace and Circus in that one is an overly vigorous degenerative sport with muddy colored flowers. The original is far less vigorous with clearer flower color and (believe it or not) more disease. But, it stinks pretty and is as fertile as a young rabbit so it got used a LOT.

Wow, Sheila!!! Gorgeous!!!

Angel Face is a generous and trouble free lavender here. It's too dry for black spot, so that helps tremendously. I love her ruffles which she has in abundance. In spite of our 100F plus heat that has gone for ages, Angel Face is blooming again and has lots of buds. That rose likes heat. And Love Song I love just as much as AF and grow two. Diane

Top two pics are Angel Face, and bottom two are Love Song.

GASP!!! GASP!!! SWOON!!!

Diane - I'm not sure you know this old country song called Queen of the Silver Dollar. Well you're Queen of the Purple Roses!!! Oh my!!!

Thank you, Carol. You are so nice. I don't know the song Queen of the Silver Dollar, though. Diane

Phillipa, I found a couple pics of Violette. The true color is a deeper purple than the photo shows. Carol

Here are Veilchenblau, Purple Buttons and Midnight Blue. Carol

Veichenblau

Purple Buttons

Midnight Blue

Philip, you can add I.X.L. to the bunch. As with the majority of them (except for Cardinal Hume and Purple Buttons) it will vary GREATLY depending upon water/soil pH, temp, light, etc. This is what it looked like this week here on the Central California Coast. It was much redder in Encino and the Santa Clarita Valley, mid desert.

The same rose back in 2013 in my Encino yard. https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.222864

Portland’s new, unimproved, global warming summers may start pinking out my purples someday. Ah well. The least of troubles with global warming. Carol

Oh Carol (no, I'm not doing a Neil Sedaka song), I'm so in love with the deep color on your Veichenblau!!!

Roseseek - what a difference!!! Doesn't even look like the same rose! I do say that the color you get now is EXQUISITE!!! Gorgeous!!

@rosecanadian what a difference climate and conditions can make, right? All of the purple polys and ramblers I've encountered, including Skyliner and Perennial Blue vary like that due to pH, temps, light, heat, etc. Blue for You does, too. Only Cardinal Hume and Purple Buttons are consistently the same color from one location to another. They haven't varied from the mid desert Newhall, to inland coastal valley Encino to foggy, chilly, damp coastal Santa Barbara County. And, of the purples which vary like that (except Blue for You), they are all also quite susceptible to alkalinity induced chlorosis. Hume and Purple Buttons aren't. I learned a long time ago I could grow Baby Faurax (which, per Harry Wheatcroft, is the dwarf, repeat-flowering sport of Veilchenblau) without chlorosis issues if budded to Cardinal Hume. I rooted a four foot whip of Hume and inserted four buds of Faurax into it way back about 1994. I gave that standard to a gardening client when I moved in 2015 and she still enjoys it. A good, vigorous, virus indexed, chlorosis resistant stock is a good thing! Hume is one.

That is really interesting, Kim! I never knew that about grafted roses, chlorosis and keeping colors purple. No wonder you breed with Cardinal Hume! I have a couple of friends that might benefit from this knowledge. They desperately want purple and get hot pink at best. Traditionally, in Portland soil and climate, my purples are deeply so (I do count my blessings), and dark rose colors only pink out around August. My pink out season is getting longer with extended, hotter summers. Friends of mine who garden in CA have a whole lotta pink going on. I need to gift them a Purple Buttons. :-) Carol

Carol, chlorosis will make violet roses almost white. @jeri and I have lamented over that for a long time. Such "beauties" as Reine des Violettes required mulching with Ironite, peat moss and watered with Hydranea Blue and Miracid just to make its chartreuse foliage "greenish" and the nearly white flowers, almost lavender. If you have alkalinity problems and want the violet tones instead of chlorosis, budding to an alkalinity resistant stock will help solve that. Unfortunately, it won't do anything to help violets which insist upon being pink to red in heat and too brilliant sun. For "real purple" tones, even own root, in high heat and brilliant light, the only reliable rose I've found is Blue for You. Of course, like many, it will vary from nearly "gray" to almost "violet", but it is nearly always purple. This is here with uncomfortably warm sun, no shade and about 60 F ocean breeze. And, it's own root, potted, with its feet in the sandy ground (and full of Bermuda grass).

I played with Cardinal Hume many years ago. Now I grow it because I have loved it since first seeing it in the Harkness catalog in 1983/84 when I sent him my money for this, International Herald Tribune, Brown Velvet and a handful of others of his wonders, including Euphrates, the only first generation Hulthemia hybrid he had in stock at the time. IHT is a magnificent rose! It varies from pinks to purple depending upon heat, light and pH also, but who cares? It NEVER stops flowering in Southern California. And, it makes the most spectacular standards you can imagine!

Roseseek - that is so interesting that there are not very many purple roses that hold their color from place to place. Oh my!!! Your Blue for You roses are scrumptious!!! What a color!

Thank you for the info, Kim! I think my CA friends should give Blue for You a try. Yours is gorgeous! I’ll pass along info about IHT, too. Cardinal Hume is a really richly colored and unique rose, but it gets too large for my current garden, so I’m really grateful you bred Purple Buttons! I have a friend who adores dahlias, and PB is her favorite rose in my garden. Carol

Cardinal Hume is a deep burgundy here. It's a great bloomer. As soon as the spring flush is over it starts on a new one. My plant is a wide ranging one. Gets part shade.

erasmus: among your purples, which one has the best scent? Thank you.

I don't know, Straw, probably The Prince.

Erasmus - oh wow!!! Hard to imagine having those beauties!!!

Really beautiful, erasmus! Do you have a whole-plant picture of Cardinal Hume? I have one in a pot that I plan to put out in fall, and a picture or verbal description of its' habit would be very helpful.

Thanks, Bart. I have taken some pics of Cardinal Hume but they're not very recent and the color is a bit more red than it really is, I think. Here's what I've got. The plant is bigger now, especially in width. I think this was about ten years ago. It's the one on the left, naturally.

Mine is in some shade...I think it's possible blooms would fry in full sun.

Your CH is absolutely gorgeous, Erasmus! I just love virtually visiting your garden. You have some of this best pics on HMF, too! I wish I had room for CH, but fortunately my craving for that deep wine-purple color is largely satisfied by Purple Buttons. Carol

A young Purple Buttons in my baby rose nursery. My other plant just finished one of its flushes and only has buds. I wish I could remember the scent of CH better. PB smells great! Kinda spicy-sweet.

Last pic below shows the color transformation as blooms age from burgundy-wine to deep violet.

…..…or maybe not. I can’t post the photo. ☹️

Such a captivating rose!!! :) :)

PB has pretty much the same scent as Cardinal Hume and Rochester Cathedral, its sibling. It's always reminded me of the taste of Red Hots, the hot cinnamon candy. I keep CH around because of the scent, color and it makes a magnificent root stock. Since it's virus indexed, roots extremely well and accepts anything I've ever put on it and doesn't suffer chlorosis issues in the alkalinity, it's a find!

Red Hots—yes. That’s it! PB smells like cinnamon candy. I love the scent!

CH sure has a lot going for it. What a wonderful rose! Carol

I had a PB patio standard Ralph Moore budded for me. It actually made a rather nice standard and fit the balcony quite nicely. Until there was a fire.

So…I hesitated but went ahead and liked that last comment, Kim, but it was only a half like for the standard PB from RM. A fire?!? On your balcony?!? Carol

There was a massive fire and my town house was one of many which burned 25 years ago. The Northridge quake broke everything that could break and the fire, a year and a half later, burned what could burn. It made it MUCH easier to move and not become attached to "things". The only plant which resurrected from the ashes I was calling "Phoenix". There was a pile of huge soil balls on the ground where my balcony had fallen and after a rain, a tiny green sprout emerged. I obtained permission from the powers that were to retrieve it. That thing turned out to be one of Ralph Moore's crested hybrids which is now LONG gone, like too many of his roses. But, yes, PB makes a wonderful standard and it puts those marvelously scented blooms up in your face where they should be to be enjoyed.

Wow...that's sure scary!! I'm glad that it was a long time ago and that you have made peace with it.

Thank you. Things happen, you deal with them and move on.

Amen to that, Kim. Thank you so much for the picture, Erasmus.How much space is there on the ground between your Cardinal Hume and the stripey rose? I really like the way that the two plants mingle.

Bart, I don't know, probably about 3'. Looks like I was standing pretty close. That striped rose is a very willing plant, Hurdy Gurdy. It's supposedly a climbing mini but it does fine without support.

Thanks, erasmus. Spacing is always a conundrum for me.

Kim, the big quake plus the fire—recovery from those makes for an absolutely life-changing experience! Your emotional survival, resilience and fresh perspective on the value of things are truly hard won pieces of an enlightened life after literal trial by fire. I hear in your words what I call full body knowledge, a kind of deep and pure understanding of life involving sharp edges, practical focus, expanded compassion and both joyful and wry humor. Looking back after crossing mountains like those, it becomes clear that the capacity for transformation is built into our genes and souls. Sometimes the only way through is just to go through it.

Every day that my feet are standing on the PNW, I think about the precariousness of the ground below me. I am regularly stacking emergency water, juggling current supplies of medications, shuffling boxes of batteries, flashlights, canned food and blankets. I wonder how I’ll manage, our household organizer and family caretaker, to keep it all together when the supports of everyday life drop out from under me in one fell swoop. I’ll think of you and remember your Phoenix Ralph Moore rose and your own recovery and hold out hope that I will survive and get to that side of enlightenment with my family on my back.

What you say about THINGS is 100% heart of the matter! They can for moments in time hold value, but only because living beings are associated with them. It is life itself that is inherently valuable—the ones we love, those in our communities and world, the planet itself which shelters and sustains all life as we know it. The day may come when I’ll need to leave anything or everything behind and experience the leanness that is just me with no frills or extras or immediate security.

For the record, your roses bring great joy to this living being! For the time that Purple Buttons and Annie Laurie McDowell grow in my garden, they will give me immense pleasure and a boost when I need one even if the mountains I am currently climbing are less arduous than a quake or fire. I think I love pass along plants so much because they embrace both the temporal nature and continuity of all that is beautiful and gifted from one to another across a long chain of generations. The plants that you and other breeders create are inherently passalongs because you brought something wonderful and original into this world, and since it can be propagated, countless gardeners like me can share in the gift for years to come. Your roses are incredibly beautiful to my eyes and my nose. It is a delight to go outside during PB’s loooong bloom period and stop to smell the roses! Someday, I‘ll do the same with ALMcD, but right now I am conscientiously disbudding my young, own root plant so that she doesn’t exhaust herself before she is mature enough to support her own virtues. Thank you for your roses! Carol

@portlandmysteryrose Wow! Thank you! I genuinely "feel you". We've all been over our "mountains" and we've all experienced the ground shake under our feet, the walls fall down and fires flare. Should the time come when your organizer/caretaker talents be severely tested, I believe you will surprise yourself and those who rely upon you will find the strength and purpose they need by watching you. When it's required, it simply comes forth.

I'm sure even Annie Laurie McDowell would love the thought of being a pass along rose. She definitely spread her share of them around. I'm honored. Thank you.

Carol, that is beautiful.

Carol, is that purple buttons? It's super cute!

Yes, TheJknotFiles, that’s Purple Buttons. Isn’t it the cutest? But also really graceful and elegant. Truly one of my favorite smaller roses. Ever! Here’s another shot of my youngest PB which is going to get upsized to a decorative planter after Portland finally stops hitting temps in the 90s and hundreds. Carol