"Sand has smaller particles..." Well, can't say where Ink buys his stone dust, but here in Massachusetts, stone dust is by far the smaller particle. Perhaps Canadian dust is larger than sand, or sand up there is extremely small...:-) Around here, the dust is the smallest. Sand in these parts varies in size based on where it's mined and how it's processed (if at all), but always has a larger grain size than the dust. " As you don't want water draining THROUGH your patio but over it the drainage capability of sand/stone dust is a moot point." Not necessarily so. A well designed and constructed hard surface of pavers, or stone, depends on slope to evacuate rainwater, and the material within the joints if slopes are minimal. And most patios will have minimal slopes. It should be pointed out that the reason many patios fail is not due to poor surface drainage, it's due to poor subsurface and base preparation that doesn't allow for water in the soils to drain away from the area. Water draining through the joints should be able to do just that.., drain through a well prepared base and beyond. Stone dust is a commonly used material in both commercial and residential applications as a base material. Depending on the loading requirements of the surface, it can be used directly over a well compacted gravel base, or over a well compacted crusher run (processed stone) base. And a very important key to good base preparation is good drainage. If stone dust were impermeable, it wouldn't be used around here to the extent that it is. Just thought you'd like to know...

Thank you all for your comments. Drainage and overland flow is an issue here - unfortunately the city is the one that caused the problem. According to the neighbors the city put in curbs and gutters in our area about 10 years ago but they never put in any storm sewers. So during any rain event all the water shoots down the driveways uphill from us then through both our rear neighbor's lawn and ours before making it to the patio. There is a decent amount on infiltration through the lawns so we don't have any rivers through the grass and the grade around the patio does a little bit to mitigate the water on the patio issues - but not enough. The basement has been waterproofed along the rear of the house... Anyway, I know the drainage is an issue but there won't be anything done about it by the city so I'm left to fend for myself. Thank you for your thoughts of privacy from the neighbors... that has been a thought of mine too. Luckily the house to the left doesn't really look over our patio area as their house has an extension (with no windows in our direction) at the back that runs along the property line and extends about 20' past the back of our house. The house on the right would have a pretty direct line of sight to the patio so it is that side (south) that would need the screening. I've been thinking that some blueberry bushes might be nice there... mind you I know nothing about blueberries except that I love to eat them and that the blueberry bushes at my mother in laws house are large and georgous (she is Atlanta though, so what works for her probably will not work for me in Ohio)... I guess I need to do some research :) Another thought we've had is to do some sort of trellis / arbor / pergola thing to give some privacy and to eventually provide some shade on the patio during the day. I've had a look on line and in books at the library and seen some things that look a nice but nothing yet that gets my motor going. If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear or see them. We haven't really given any thoughts to a wood deck... I think it is because we've never seen one that we really like. My father's deck seems to be alot of work (cleaning, sealing, warping...) granted it is over 20 years old. I know nothing of the recycled wood products though. I"ll think about it, but can already imagine my husband's reaction to the idea - "no". We've had the neighbor's landscaper over here a couple of days to have a look at things and he came up with some really nice plans. He does interlocking concrete pavers. His portfolio has some really nice pictures of his work in it and I've seen some of his patio work at another neighbor's house which looks really nice 2 years after installation. It doesn't hurt that his is a young company that is hungry to do work so his prices seem reasonable... the other paver guys that said he couldn't even imagine anything going in under 10K made me gag (same guy that told me I'd need over 400SF). As for size... once the rain stops I will drag out the hose and see what kind of space I think I'll need to feel comfortable and then add about 10%. Thank you again for all your comments. Andria

Ssahw, sorry for this hijack, and back to your deck in a moment. *** Designshare, I have been saying nothing in response to several of your posts, but this time you posted twice and you did not listen to what the OP said. The OP clearly rejected your input, yet you made yet another bizarre and irrelevant picture. I would suggest you try to improve your work to encompass both reality and the question that the OP is asking, so it doesn't require anyone to be advised to ignore it. And by the way, if you see anyone giving advice that you think is a waste of time or otherwise bad, you are free to say so here. Just be sure to give reasons why you think it is bad. Given that freedom that you have, I would suggest that you try learning what "dictatorship" means before you use that word again. It continues to beggar my understanding that you are from China, which is a dictatorship where corruption and oppression abound, and yet you cannot tell the difference between a dictatorship and simple peer response. Far from seeking to oppress your contribution, I have frequently offered you suggestions on how to improve it. Your contributions in words are sometimes very good, and if you could simply stop with the pictures, you would be much more welcome by me. In particular, I have suggested that you not be the first to post to any thread, because it is very off-putting to a new OP when a "cartoon" (as your drawings were referred to by someone else) is the first response. That, of course, is only my opinion. I don't seek to speak on anyone else's behalf, and everyone else is free to tell you, and the rest of the world by posting it in a thread, if they feel differently about your pictures. *** So, back to the deck. I agree a deck would be easier to build, but maybe not so good for a firepit. I wonder though whether the firepit and pool seasons do not somewhat overlap. Perhaps it would be better to consider the two functions separately. Alternatively, based on the measurements you've given, that's some slope. Could you move the patio further from the deck to flatter ground? And/or extend the deck at its present level until you reach flat ground? Fill below the deck to bring the ground level up?? The concurrent thread I've linked below may give you, in monetary terms, some idea of the magnitude of putting the patio right where you want it. KarinL Here is a link that might be useful: concurrent thread

I should be applying joint compound but I have never done this so I am hesitant . The grill is gas or charcoal? HUbby says he will never drip grease and he does. When we redid the patio in NJ I boxed in the gas grill with 1 and a quarter inch stone .PEa gravel gets kicked whereas the bigger stone laid placed. Husband hated the idea in laying the large stone where the gas grill was . There was no disruption to the pavers when I needed to replace the unit and no stones were ever kicked from around the grill. I added the stones cause I did not have the money to replace the grill . Do telephone "call before you dig" before even sketching a design. I did see the link . I think you have a very beautiful home with a nice sized yard. The patio will be a welcomed retreat. Think about your view from the deck. Most flowering plants need sun but hostas tolerate shade and give off a nice bloom . The hedges along the split rail have a border plant? Think about the entire yard not just the patio space. Think not as one looking in at the home but what you will view sitting. You do not need to spend a fortune. You can also do this in stages. Grass and plants absorb water................ will the pavers cause an irrigation issue. Will you lay the pavers up to the home? Will you have a garden and then the pavers. I bought a home where the previous owner used the garage wall to hold the topsoil. I removed the topsoil and installed colored stones and urns along this 18 foot section. I have a floral garden and herbs in some of the urns. I do not need to weed or mow this area. Just think about function and see what ideas you find on the internet. Houzz has great photos too. Have fun. Joint compound is calling me.