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Where to put island electrical outlets?

Sunshyne
last year

Hi, we are preparing to install an almost 11' island with a waterfall edge. I'm reading I'm going to need about 5 outlets on that island. I have no idea how to do this. I was hoping I could put them in a cabinet or two (that's what we have now) but with needing 5 I don't think that's possible. Any ideas? I hate the idea of breaking up the countertop, the waterfall edge or even having to put a strip in front of the cabinets! Also, anyone know if it's possible to satisfy that retirement by putting outlets under the seating area? That would actually be helpful and eliminate some unsightly outlets! Help!

Comments (20)

  • Sunshyne
    Original Author
    last year

    @HU-461387386 THANK YOU! I plan on addressing with her this week. She previously told me she doesn't know "code" and that it's not something she does but that doesn't feel right to me. I think I am going to have her put two blank panels of wood on each end of the cabinets so we can do a hidden outlet on each end vs. interrupting the waterfall. I just struggle beyond that as to where the rest of them will be. Do you have any idea how many outlets would be needed? From what I'm reading the sink breaks up the continuum so I think it's 1 on the 3' side of the sink (but I'm assuming the DW outlet that's hidden doesn't count) and then 2 or 3 (?) on the 5' side? I really hate outlets I wish I didn't need any. Our "work" side of the kitchen is where we're going to plug things in and I really don't want outlets anywhere near a sink or where food will be served...actually seems backwards to me that they'd require outlets near them!

  • PRO
    The Cook's Kitchen
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Your kitchen designer usually designs in the locations during the electrical and lighting design phase, in conjunction with the cabinet plan. Because the bulk of the oulets has to be accounted for in the space planning of the cabinets. I used a 9” tray base, with the top section a blank drawer, to hold an outlet on this waterfall island.


    Memphis MCM · More Info


    2020 NEC: Island, Peninsular, and Work Surface Receptacle Requirements

    Brand-new for the 2020 Code cycle, Section 210.52(C)(2) tells us that for island and peninsular countertops and work surfaces, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with 210.52(C)(2)(a) and (C)(2)(b):

    210.52(C)(2)(a) says at least one receptacle outlet shall be provided for the first 9 ft² (or fraction thereof) of the countertop or work surface. And then another receptacle outlet shall be provided for every additional 18 ft² (or fraction thereof) of countertop or work surface thereafter.

    210.52(C)(2)(b) then tells us that at least one of those receptacle outlets shall be located within 2 ft of the outer end of the peninsular countertop or work surface. And that any additional required receptacle outlets can be located as determined by the installer, designer, or building owner. The location of all receptacle outlets shall be in accordance with 210.52(C)(3).







    You will need to dig into the build details of the island in order to find the phyical space needed to satisfy the codes. You may end up losing cabinet space if this is not still in the design phase. I find it disconcerting that a kitchen designer ”doesn't know code”. Its a top priority to keep up with all of the changes in the code cycle.

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  • anj_p
    last year
    last modified: last year
  • Shannon_WI
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Not only the KD should have this knowledge, but the electrician on the job as well. Who will be doing your electrical work? There must be someone. My electrician was very particular about the height I could install receptacles in my backsplash, as I wanted the receptacles low and horizontal. I could of course have them low and horizontal, but not too low that they violated local code, and the electrician was the one who dictated the height according to the electrical code.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last year

    Andrea:


    You need to speak to your local electricial inspector. Designers can draw and specify anything, but their plans aren't getting red tagged, your kitchen is.

  • PRO
    Fedewa Custom Works
    last year

    Andrea, I'm a kitchen designer, and yes it was mostly her responsibility. I would also consider it your General Contractor's responsibility as well. Really he and the electrician should've been asking where are the outlets on this island?

    - Check with your electrical building inspector. In Colorado you would not need 5. That sounds like a lot.

    - Sometimes they will let you ask for an exception.

    - Trufig outlets are flush outlets that can get cut into your stone. Then someone can faux the outlet cover to match your stone. They're tricky and a bit of a pain, but look really nice when done correctly. (In the picture there are 2 on the cabinetry)

    - If you have a sinkbase on that island, you could probably put an outlet on your sink false front. Not ideal I know, but an option.

    - You could insist the designer order new cabinetry and make the fillers at the waterfall wide enough to put an outlet on.

    - You may have to make a couple top drawers fixed, to put an outlet on them. If your kitchen is custom, maybe the cabinetry company can modify a top drawer to have a fixed portion and an operable portion. (The picture below shows aa Trufig outlet on a top drawer, and it is not operable)


  • Sunshyne
    Original Author
    last year

    @Gilligan Gehrity I can't defend her, I don't think she's done a good job. Fortunately we have a designer so the design we basically did and gave to her and we're working out all of the other aspects as we go. We were just trying to find a good way to hide the outlets we know are required.


    For the island material, I think we are actually fine with a jumbo slab of stone? We are within the limits to keep a single slab and have built in wooden supports on each end and a metal one in the middle as well. What concerns beyond that would you have? A jumbo slab is 128" and the stone folks said to keep the cabinets 124" or less to provide enough material to do a mitered edge for the waterfall.


    I'm honestly interested in any feedback to make sure we're not missing anything. Thanks

  • Sunshyne
    Original Author
    last year

    @Gilligan Gehrity I think we're all set, we have the slab secured with the stone place. We also talked with the contractor/electrician and inspector and are going to add a strip in to provide a front outlet for code purposes on one end of the island so we don't need to cut into the waterfall side. We are confident in our design but we have learned to just not really invest efforts in the woman at the kitchen store, we will stick with our other resources as they have gotten us a lot further. I think we finally have everything screwup proof!


    @Fedewa Custom Works We are going to actually do the filler spot like you have shown. In our town we only need to have 2 outlets and by adding in the filler we can have 2 outlets to meet code and only need to reduce our cabinets slightly so it's a good solution. Luckily I brought this all up before we finalize so we had time to add pieces in to accomplish the requirements with a look that's aesthetically pleasing to us. Thanks for your suggestions and for the photos (!) as it's always nice to see what we're looking at done nicely to confirm our thoughts on how we will proceed!

  • PRO
    PM Project Management
    last year

    You’ll need a lot more than a filler to do this. Your island needs 3 outlets, based on it’s size. 2 on ine end is acceptable, with the 3rd on the other end. They will need to be site created box columns in order to have the design correct to with a waterfall. The rest of what is needed depends on what is on the working side. The overhang will need steel support or table legs plus a steel framework. What and how is very design specific.


    There is no way that a single jumbo slab can do the size island you have. Not with a waterfall. And not with a jumbo plus a regular either. You will need 2 jumbo from the ssme run at a minimum for the island. And unless they are from the Cambria bookmatched series, your seams where the edge meet the waterfall will not have the veins line up.



    Post the design if you want more accurate advice regarding counter support and seaming. There are a lot of interrelated issues here. None of it is very solvable without expert help.

  • Sunshyne
    Original Author
    last year

    @PM Project Management why would we need more than one slab on the "top" if the length of the cabinets is less than the length of the slab (with enough extra to miter the edges)? I'm trying to understand why you'd need more than one if the dimensions of the island are less than the dimensions of the slab.


    For the outlets, why would we need 3? We did run the plans by the electrician who stated we only need 2 outlets (as did the architect) who both said two. I believe it may be because we have a sink that cuts up the island and leaves only about 7.5 feet? For the stone, we do have supports built on the sides/middle for the stone. We don't have veining to worry about either so there's no real need to bookmatch.

  • Sunshyne
    Original Author
    last year

    @Gilligan Gehrity I am only concerned about using a single slab for the top, not the sides. I just don't want a seam in the top. The edges won't require seams. I also don't need bookmatching as there isn't a vein to match and we are doing mitered edges which I'm OK with.


    As for the outlets, why is it 3 outlets? The contractor, electrician and architect are saying 2 to meet code. We do have a 3' sink that cuts into it, is that why?

  • PRO
    The Cook's Kitchen
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I posted the diagram and verbiage of the current code above. The math is easy to do. :) The number of outlets needed is based on island square footage.

    Yes, you need the waterfall sides from the same batch and type of stone as the top. Yes, that will mean 2-3 Jumbo slabs. 3 if you want no seam in the top. It is well known in the industry that you never try to match a Jumbo slab to a regular one. They are completely different factory runs, and completely different dye lots. You won’t have the same exact color without stone from the same manmade batch, or sequentially cut bookmatched natural stone slabs.

    If you don’t want to purchase 3 slabs instead of one, eliminate the waterfall sides. The island I posted above used 3 slabs of standard slab stone for it. Plus the perimeter stone. All from the same bath, with sequential numbers verified.

  • Sunshyne
    Original Author
    last year

    @The Cook's Kitchen doesn't a stone fabricator naturally pick the necessary slabs? we specified that we don't want a seam in the top and they gave us dimensions to work with and we stayed within those. So, whether they use multiple slabs for the edges I guess doesn't matter to me as long as it meets my requirements. no?


    For the outlets, we will have one on each end (mirrored on both areas - kitchen and sitting) so that's 4 outlets. I read somewhere that the sink creates "multiple" islands so I think that may be why we're being told it's 2 instead of 5 outlets. If it were considered one solid piece then it would be a 10+' island but with the sink I believe it breaks it into a 3' and a 7' island. Is that incorrect? I'm just trying to understand why the contractor, electrician and architect (who are not all related to each other) are telling me 2 is code.





  • PRO
    PM Project Management
    last year

    This is basic stone fabricator’s math for the counters. And current building code. Perhaps your electrician hasn’t had his his head above water enough in the past couple of years to know the code cycle changes. The code has changes and refinements every 3 years. He has to have a current copy of the 2020 code?


    The current code bases the number of outlets on the size of the island. The fact that a sink separates the island in 2 means each end requires an outlet. Plus the 3rd, which can go anywhere on the working side that is NEC acceptable. That’s if the island is around 36” deep. If yours is deeper, it may need more. You have to do the math based on your island acreage.

  • PRO
    The Cook's Kitchen
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Just post your design, and material choice. I’ll be happy to show you exactly why you need more than 1 slab of stone for your island, and more than 2 outlets. Its easier to show you on your diagram.

    Right now, the only fabrication dimension diagram I have handy is for the above island, and we eliminated the stone behind the range and went to a “solid” color everywhere to cut costs down to 15K for the stone. The original stone quote with 2 different spectacular veined quartzites was 45K for stone and fabrication.


    This needs to add cut % to the numbers, but it should give you an idea.

    Project Documentation Samples · More Info


  • Sunshyne
    Original Author
    last year

    @HU-213936607 I'm reaching out because the 4 people who are professionals on my end are ALL telling me the same thing but those on Houzz are telling me different. It's not about money. If it was just the KD (who actually isn't one of the 4 telling me any of this, we sort of eliminated her from the picture aside from ordering the cabinets) then I would not be trying to understand this more. BUT, because I read some things and subsequently asked on Houzz and I'm hearing differences I'm trying to understand it as I am the one that is going to need to go back to the contractor, architect, electrician and designer (not the KD) and tell them that I need further research and why. It's really not a money thing it's me trying to honestly understand it all so when I talk to the others actually involved in this project I have the knowledge to back it up. The reason I'm posting is that I've read things that I personally think contradict and I'm trying not to get into a Help Disaster situation. I think the more help disaster would be me not reaching out and me not having a conversation with the professionals on here to try to truly understand it. I really didn't appreciate your post as it makes it sound like I'm just being stupid when it comes to a big project when what I'm trying to do is ensure that no mistakes are made BEFORE we order anything. If I just trusted what others said then we may be in that help situation but that's the exact opposite of what I'm doing.

  • Becky H
    last year

    Can you call your city code/inspection and ask them how many outlets are needed. I can see your confusion the pros here are provinding excellent info and a link to the codes, which has helped us in our remodel, and your team is telling you something diff.

  • PRO
    PM Project Management
    last year
    last modified: last year

    It is pretty easy to verify. Buy a copy of the code. Your electrician should own one. Architects and general contractors should too. https://shop.iccsafe.org/topics/electrical/nfpa-70r-national-electrical-coder-necr-2020-edition.html

  • PRO
    Designer Kitchen and Bath
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Why not just hire a Kitchen Designer for a ”plan check” to spot issues with it? You’re focusing on the island, and that has some issues. But the rest likely does as well. Best to catch them before anything is ordered. When we do that, we usually end up with the job, because the previous designer or contractor has set off so many red flags that they are no longer trustworthy. But we do not do long distance design. I think Linda (Cook’s) does though.

  • mtvhike
    last year

    Does one duplex receptacle count as one or two outlets (for code purposes)?

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