Centifolia Bullata, 2nd year, from Palatine. This rose has such a wonderful fragrance! I love its leaves and its flowers -- now I just wish I had a massive garden to let it stretch out and be as magnificent as it could be. So far as I know Palatine is the only source in N. America (maybe Greenmantle will have it at some point, but they have listed it as not being propagated for years now).

I had a Centifolia once. Justine Ramet. Because I live in the deep south, it grew but never bloomed. I knew this would probably happen when I bought it, so I wasn't too surprised. Still, I love these old European things so much that I'm tempted to try again with Spong. Why? Because I'm crazy like that.

I remember that Bullata was available at the Friends of Vintage Gardens sale this spring. I almost requested it, but did not feel like driving up to Sonoma to get it! I agree that it is fascinating, especially the foliage.

I have a few Centifolias and love them. 'Centifolia' is one of the commonest old roses locally. Nobody grows it; it just survives, unloved but dauntless, blooming late in the rose season. 'Centifolia Variegata'/'Village Maid' is done for the year: a lanky, thorny, easy rose with beautiful, softly variegated blooms. Another late-bloomer is the white Centifolia--the varietal name doesn't occur to me at the moment. Very beautiful rose! with the blooms strung out along the canes.

Bellegallica, I hear you on the crazy impulse to grow these things, even when not appropriate. Exhibit A: my Centifolia Bulllata growing in a container. I hope that if you try Spong it turns out to be more amenable to your conditions. :)

RBEHS, I didn't know that Friends of Vintage were offering it -- I'm glad to hear that! One of these days I'd love to be able to buy roses from their sale. That won't happen for me for a while, but maybe in the future.

Melissa I'm glad to hear that Centifolias survive well. They don't seem widely grown in general -- the fact that they are survivors is quite comforting. I suppose they will never completely disappear because of it. I've admired images of Centifolia Variegata but haven't seen one in person yet -- I'd really love to come across one in bloom.

I bought Bullata from Palatine last year and the foliage is so unique. No blooms yet and it is growing in a container. I bought it because I find the old roses attractive. I started growing roses in containers since last year. So I am a newbie! 😀

Prowl In, welcome to the forum and good luck! I hope your roses do well for you.

Paul, you have cemented your reputation as a Great Rosarian. I've bought 'Tour de Malakoff' a number of times, and it has invariably, and with record speed, turned up its roots and died. I think magical powers are required to get it to grow.

K S, Centifolias may some of them be somewhat iffy, though Seattle is likely a good place to try them. I do recommend the ones I mentioned. Not to be forgotten are the old Mosses that are Centifolia sports, like 'Common Moss' and its white sport, and 'Crested Moss'/'Chapeau de Napoleon'/'Cristata', another sport with a strong Centifolia look (lanky! thorny! big opulent fragrant blooms!). Oh, and the miniatures; like 'Rose de Meaux' and its white sport, which latter I have, a lightly built plant which has however hung on, and it does look like a scaled-down Centifolia. 'Petite de Hollande' is another miniature with Centifolia character. There are other roses often classed as Centifolias that don't strike me as having the class's typical character, for example 'Fantin-Latour', a good and lovely rose, but not a Centifolia.

Paul, thank you for posting that picture of Tour de Malakoff -- what a fabulous smoky plum color! I'd like to try this one if I ever manage to get more than a postage stamp sized garden.

Prowl In, you have incredibly good taste for a newbie if you are already growing Bullata! That's fantastic. Into the second year mine seems fine in its big container. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have enjoyed mine.

Melissa, thanks for the list of other good centifolia types to grow -- I'd particularly like to try Chapeau de Napoleon someday. :)

@Melissa Northern Italy zone 8

My plant of 'Tour de Malakoff' is twenty years old and still it has never exceeded 2 canes, with scant foliage and maybe as many as 8 blooms a year. Hardly a stunning success. Its one of the weakest plants I have grown. I'm surprised it hangs on.

I wonder what the matter with Tour de Malakoff is. I don't think it used to be wimpy -- in the distant past.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I have modern roses but I am fascinated with the old roses plus I live in z4b, frozen tundra. I don't want to be a slave to my rose garden 😀. If they die and won't survived our winter here then they do not belong in my garden. 🌹❤

Thank you for starting this thread, KS! I only have Mosses which might count as Centifolia. I used to have (?) Juno, but its label got lost in the ice storm-power outage hell of last winter, and I am still trying to ID it. Centifolias are drop dead gorgeous and SO fragrant. I wish I could squeeze a couple into my garden. I’d grow Tour de Malakoff for sure! Maybe I’ll try it someday since Paul’s is a two cane wonder after 20 years. I could surely squeeze 2 more canes into the jungle.

I had forgotten that you and are both postage stamp gardeners! If forum members saw the size of my soil real estate, they’d think I’m crazy to grow as many roses as I do. Heh. You sure grow a lot of pretty things on your postage stamp! Gorgeous Centifolia Bullata!!

Carol

P.S. My Palatine roses have really been great—well grafted, no suckers, quick starters, healthy. (Knock wood.)

Prowl In, a word about Centifolias. I seem to recall Mad Gallica saying that, in her experience, they were not as iron hardy as other classes of he once-flowering roses (this is from memory, and from a post a while back, so I may not remember correctly). You may want to look into that. Also, some of the once-flowering roses classed as old roses are hybrids with China genes and less hardy; I believe the lovely 'Juno' is one of them. Mad Gallica, again, mentioned how wimpy it was in her garden, zone 5-something, I believe. On the other hand, a gal who used to post here, Celeste, gardened in Zone 4, and she had marvelous roses, many of them old roses. So it certainly can be done. I love these once-bloomers, and grow as many as I can, even though I'm in zone 8 and can afford to dispense with cold hardiness, just because I think they're among the most beautiful roses....and the best suited to my soil and gardening conditions.

Carol, I am sure you could fit two more canes into your garden -- surely if Tour de Malakoff stays small for Paul it will be easy to wedge in somewhere... ;) Rose garden logic derived from the heart!

There are some "miniature" so to speak centifolias that don't get quite so huge. I am growing Petite de Hollande, supposedly a centifolia, that is "smaller in all its parts". It is about the size of a normal gallica, IMO. Frustratingly, I don't have it in the right place to display its charms, because my postage stamp is too crowded. It would like cooler roots.

There are also Petite Lisette, said to be very fragrant and now classed as a centifolia; and Pompon de burgundica (so helpmefind calls it) a darker pink. I haven't grown these, but they look enticing.

Also, I remember that photographer and author Carolyn Parker wrote on her blog that for 20 years she had grown specimens of Common Moss, which are centifolias on which mossy growth has sported, in containers.

This class of roses, the centifolias, is said to have yielded the finest perfume and used to be grown extensively in the south of France for that purpose, a very good reason to preserve them when you consider how extremely valuable and desirable perfume has been throughout history, almost like gold. I imagine also that if they were grown for utility they would have been subjected to heavy pruning. Carolyn Parker said she pruned her centifolias to the ground and her moss roses in containers twice in a season.

https://www.rosenotes.com/2009/04/rose-of-the-week-moss-rose.html 

Ahem....'Petite Lisette' gets its name from the size of the FLOWERS, not the dimensions of the plant, which is a whomping great thing and extremely thorny. I'm currently giving mine the first thorough pruning it's had in its life (fourteen years), partly to rescue its neighbors from it. So BEWARE. (These comments can validly be applied to the similar 'Petite Orleanaise')

I agree, however, about the smaller scale overall of varieties like 'Petite de Hollande' and 'Rose de Meaux'.

Prowl, welcome to the forum! 🎉

KS, I am sharpening my shoehorn! Ha, ha. 😁

Melissa and Monarda, I am seeing a small, 15-20 gallon nursery potted Centifolia in my future…. 🔮

Cold climates and Centifolias: Juno’s smallish nursery pot fell over in our very late winter, unprecedented icemageddon, and I think Juno believed she’d been transplanted to Antarctica! We’ll see if she’s even still alive in my collection of scrambled label pots. 🤞

Carol

Thanks for the correction/caveat about Petite Lisette, which I have only read about. People seem to love it, though. :)

I have had a grafted Cabbage rose since 2005--moved it once to a location where it should do well--near Ispahan, Tuscany, and Rose de Resht (on either side) all of which do well. I doubt it's produced more than two dozen blooms (if that many) in the years I've had it--this year set a record with four. It's about four feet tall, lean, not bushy, but free of any obvious problems.

Any thoughts on what might be wrong? Do Centifolias require a different type of soil from Damasks, Gallicas, etc.?

At the opposite end of the same row I have Cabbage rose's sport White Bath--also grafted from c 2005 and moved to its present location many years ago. Stands about four feet tall, somewhat leafier than Cabbage rose. Used to bloom more than it has for the past several years although the flowers ball and turn brown in wet weather.

I'm wondering whether the secret to better performance for both is a hard pruning by 1/3 or 1/4 and removal of old canes--or tip pruning in early spring.

I have only one other moss rose (excepting QSBM) and it blooms well, sets hips, and suckers like a Gallica--flowers appear similar to those of Common Moss. I received this rose from a friend and do not know its original name.

Lindsey

In brief, I don't know. Do you mean 'Centifolia'? It's a common found rose here, often neglected, frequently abandoned, and it ALWAYS blooms. The habit is suckering, the plant producing numerous little-branched canes, usually up to about four teet, the canes long-lived. All the Centifolias have a scraggly look; for me that's one of the defining characteristics of the class. The conditions you describe should be fine. Could the rootstock be a problem? Does your plant sucker out, meaning it's on its own roots? Does 'Centifolia' have specific ph requirments (news to me). In my condiions the pruning you suggest isn't necessary, but by all means experiment. Good luck.

Thank you, Melissa. My plant was grafted from Pickering in about 2005--sold as R. Centifolia, aka Cabbage rose or the original Centifolia. It has not suckered although it is beginning to look as if it might sucker eventually. I buried the graft, hoping it might eventually start growing on its own roots.

Lindsey

By the way, I found 'Centifolia' easy to root. You might consider getting a plant that way and seeing how it does. Also our soil tends to alkaline clay; if yours is acid, would that affect the rose? As far as I know it likes the same conditions as Gallicas, Damasks, etc.

I have Pompon de Bourgogne aka the Burgundian rose (and a long list of other aka's). No pictures, sorry. I've had it several years and it isn't a big rose so far. This year I moved it to my small shrub bed where it receives dappled shade in the AM and then full sun in the afternoon. It never missed a beat and is happier in the new spot than where it was. It has an unusual look for a rose; the leaves and form are interesting on their own. It was a small own-root cutting when I got it so no idea how well it will bloom here. This might be a good once bloomer to try if you have a small yard due to its size and appearance even when not in bloom.

@Melissa Northern Italy zone 8 The soil in this past of Virginia tends to be acidic, but other European roses seem to like it. Thank you for your comment about the ease of propagating R. Centifolia. It makes me wonder whether I have the same rose, because I am a fair hand at propagation and every attempt with this rose has failed. There are only a couple of other Europeans I haven't been able to root--K von D and maybe Maiden's Blush, although I didn't try hard with the MB, because I had four grafted plants. I did root Alba Maxima on the first try, but it has not done well since I moved it to what I thought was a better location.

Lindsey