In my garden, I have discovered over the years that for several of my very very old roses, it is not a choice between partial shade/bush beauty (I am a bit confused re why these 2 items are linked in your question), but between full sun with lots of repeat, or partial shade with NO repeat at all (assuming that the roses are repeat bloomers in the first place) - just one Spring flush, then nothing. Of course, partial shade is a vague term. Here is an example of what I am talking about in my garden:

Eugene de Beauharnais - we had one plant of this growing here when we moved in. It is next to a flowering crab apple tree, and below some other roses and a Japanese quince bush. Partial shade. For 20 years, it bloomed only in the Spring, and we still did not know "who" it was, but we "knew" it was a once bloomer. The first two pics below are of the original plant (which is still going strong) on the lower left, and its neighbors. You can see what I mean by "partial shade" - this one has NEVER made any re-bloom after its Spring flush. The third and last pic is of one of its progeny, planted in full sun. It is just beginning to open another bloom cycle, and I think it is a nice small rounded bush. The original one is climbing a bit, undoubtedly to try for more light.

However, about 10-15 years ago, my DH noticed that it had put out a sucker, so I dug that up and planted it in full sun. Bang! It has re-bloomed about every month after Spring into the Late Fall every year since then. It also made one (1) sucker, so now we have 2 plants of EdB in full sun, and they both re-bloom. Knowing it was a repeat bloomer, and help from the folks on here, allowed us to be able to identify it.

Jackie

Thank you, Jacqueline, those fantastic pics of your Eugene de Beauharnais convinces me that full-sun gives more vigor to certain roses. Roses can't re-bloom near trees since tree-roots extend far beyond its canopy to steal water from roses. I spent hours last summer digging trenches (more than 1 foot deep) to protect roses near trees from being invaded by tree-roots.

My post "bush beauty OR fast repeat " is to find roses with bush beauty, OR good repeat in partial shade. Hoovb once stated that the longer she grows roses, the more she cares about bush beauty. Same here, I started out growing 134 own-root roses for scent alone, and after a decade of having plenty of roses for the vase, I start to care for bush-beauty, such as Blue mist rose.

We have super-hot summer in my zone 5a, such as 90 F for this week (first week of June), and finding roses that repeat well in partial shade is important, that saves time in watering. My tall house shades roses & same with the neighbor's tall house casting a shadow next door. Water-hogs like Golden Celebration repeats well in 4 hours of morning sun, it's a 11th-year-own-root, with 20 blooms. Golden Cel. is very vigorous as own-root.

Below 10th-year-own-root Carding Mill was slow to repeat in 4 hrs. of sun, I had to move it to 6 hours of sun. Carding Mill is wimpy as own-root, so more sun gives it more vigor.

100% thornless Bohemian Rhapsody is a water-hog & slow to repeat in full-sun, I should had planted that in partial shade. It needs lots of rain to repeat, but it gets my vote for bush beauty. It's a 6th-year own-root.

10th-year-own-root Comte de Chambord gets both votes: bush beauty and fast repeat in partial shade. it's also the best scent among my 134 fragrant roses. Pic. taken 6/2/21:

One bloom perfumes the entire room, and I can smell the bush 20 feet away with its powerful old rose & musk scent:

My three best for partial shade with zero extra watering (we get plenty of rain, though) and general beauty are Tooth Fairy, Marie Pavie and Pink Pet. These roses are also extremely healthy without any help which adds to their appeal. Now that some others are better established, I'll be able to comment on their repeat later in the season. Ballerina also does quite well for me, only BSing late in the season.

Straw, you have some gorgeous roses always 😍

Mas: Thank you, I enjoy your bush-beauties in your thread as well. What are your favorite bush beauties? Thanks. Easy to have bush-beauties as own-roots since they are compact. Alfalfa meal is amazing for lush & shiny foliage, and I like it better than horse manure.

Vaporvac: Agree with you on Marie Pavie as having bush-beauty, nice-looking round shape & pretty leaves. One summer when it was near 100 F, I visited the rose park and was disappointed that their roses (grafted-on-Dr.Huey) were big & tall but no blooms, then I came home and saw my Marie Pavie outshined them all.

Anyone know of other roses similar to Marie Pavie in round-shape & lots of blooms? Thank you. I missed my pink Marie Daly & smaller & more drought-tolerant, but with better scent (a touch of old rose besides musk). One year I ordered Marie Daly again from Roses Unlimited but they sent me Marie Pavie by mistake !!

I googled "Continuous blooming" inside Houzz, and re-post info. here for reference:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5550641/large-healthy-continuous-blooming-shrub-rose#n=54

• erasmus_gw
  2 years agoI'm surprised EvS is as pink as it is. It's so similar to Otto that I probably don't need it. Otto takes up a lot of room.Another few shrubs that bloom a lot:Outta the Blue - Not bs free but has very good vigor and rebloom. Is fragrant and a vivid color. Darlow's Enigma some find it fragrant. Marie Pavie I thought this one was a small grower for a long time but it eventually got pretty big here. Not mentioning any Austins. I love most of them, but they aren't bs free. Autumn Sunset, Westerland, and Aloha all can be grown as large shrubs.
• Marie Pavie:

Carefree Beauty

Above pics posted by erasmus_gw 2 years ago. I checked Carefree Beauty and it got 7 votes for cut-flower, 4 votes for shade tolerance and the most votes on bloom frequency at 14:

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.974&tab=34

Taking some pics. after a day of 93 F heat, these pics. are taken 6/5/21, with Blue Mist in full sun rules in bush beauty and heat & drought tolerant. Golden Celebration fails with all blooms shattered & blown away by hot wind. Below Blue Mist with amazing wafting scent that perfumes my patio (scent is better & sweeter than Marie Pavie):

Thornless bohemian Rhapsody, bred by Robert Rippetoe in CA looking good at 93 F heat:

Cornelia is heat & drought tolerant and blooms best in hot summer, sweet wafting scent. The single and double-petals do much better in the heat than the zillion-petals Austin roses, except for Evelyn and the Dark Lady both like heat among my 30 own-root Austins.

Blue Mist is stunning!!!

Love these last roses. Of them, I only grown Cornelia which just finished a fabulous first flush.

Straw - Blue Mist looks like a must-have! I can't believe it's a miniature! But 3 feet seems a good size for front of border.

HMF says Burlington has it - ordering soon...

It hasn't bloomed yet but as far as bush appearance goes I am impressed with one of my purchases from this spring, Oregold. It's a Tantau yellow rose and has a stunning rounded shape with lovely large glossy leaves. It's setting buds but even if I don't like the blooms it gets to stay as a nice shrub because I'm really impressed. It only gets about 4 hours of patchy sun and the rest of the time is completely shaded.

Bright & Shiny is in 5 hours of sun and is a gorgeous bush, very glossy healthy leaves and covered in buds right now. It's one of my top 3 hardy roses this spring.

I look up Oregold, and yes, it's gorgeous !!

Straw - your CdC is amazing!!! I wish I could smell it!!!

There are some fabulous bush shots here!!! :) :)

Savannah doesn't have bush beauty: big monster with long & messy canes and blooms at end of cane (I brutally pruned Savannah below 1 foot in spring but it doesn't help !!)

Below Princess Anne is 1/3 the size with bush beauty: glossy foliage, and blooms well in only 4 hours of morning sun. It's a 4th-year-own-root:

strawchicago - your description of Savannah sounds to me like a rose which is trying to be a climber, for whatever reason. Long canes which are "messy" and bloom at the end of the cane, where cutting it down hard does not help...

Just a suggestion - you might try tying the long canes horizontally, and see what happens - that should make them send up laterals vertically all along their length, which should bloom nicely.

Jackie

My 6th-year-own-root Savannah is a Kordes hybrid tea (not climber so can't be trained horizontally), and it was stingy in full sun, so I moved it partial shade, and it doesn't help. Roses tend to be super-tall in high heat above 90 F. One year it was near 100 F and I went to the rose park and ALL ROSES were so tall with zero blooms at the top. Phosphorus & potassium for blooming are less available in extreme heat with dry soil, so nitrogen takes over to produce tall roses with blooms at the top. Below is Savannah, a Kordes hybrid tea:

Hoovb in CA is right about some Kordes shrubs are big giants but stingy. Read many complaints about Savannah. But I don't have problems with Kordes Poseidon .. this has bush beauty and constant blooming, below pic. was taken at 93 F heat, it's a 7th-year own root with deeper roots so blooms don't burn in heat this June:

Below Poseidon when it was a younger & shorter own-root, fast repeat if given acidic rain:

@strawchicago z5

Darlow's Enigma, I grew three at my previous garden, and it was never more than mildly fragrant in the hot & dry.... OTOH, Secret Garden Musk Climber was very fragrant, and I prefered its roses...My SGMC was not grown to full maturity... Portland from Glendora had a good repeat and was very fragrant. Mine received about 7-8 hours of sun.

With that communicated, Darlow's Enigma won the drought tolerant award. I withheld water for several months (and it was not receiving run-off from anything) hoping it would succumb in the dry heat. I wanted to move Emmanuella de Mouchy to its spot. It did not die, and even put out blooms in May (over 100 degree temperature highs... and there was no rain of any consequence in sight or in recent months about 4" of rain annually)... I gave up, placed it in a pot, and gifted it prior to moving...

@strawchicago z5

Princess Anne for me too, handled the hot and dry well. I never bent over to sniff the blooms. Here in TX, it is 1 of 2, among the 30 roses I have managed to accumulate after the snowmageddon siege, that has black spot...

Disappointing to hear that about Savannah. My friend ordered that this year and has yet to plant it so it does help you know it will grow tall. Anyone else growing at that can comment?

La Reine is just the opposite of Savannah. La Reine is a cutie pie like a mini-rose, and the repeat is fantastic. It has a fruity & old rose scent. It's 1/4 the normal size since I almost killed it last year by moving it. It was a BS-fest when planted in compost cow manure, but it has been 100% clean after I moved it to my alkaline clay. This rose has bush beauty since it's so compact & small and blooms easily as own-root:

Below is a pic. of my 1st La Reine which had very little blackspots for several years:

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.283560

Oh, Straw!!! I love your La Reine!!! That open bloom next to the bud is to SWOON for!!!! :)

Straw, my La Reine likes my alkaline clay too…once it got past band sized and had decent sized roots

Straw, my La Reine likes my alkaline clay too…once it got past band sized and had decent sized roots

I really liked La Reine. It was another rose I grew in multiples (3), all in full sun, hot and dry, that could take the heat. Hopefully, one day I will determine why, but I preferred Barbara’s Pasture Rose, which I believe at one point some thought was La Reine, but it was concluded is not…

Straw and Oursteelers

You have beautiful roses!!

Outsteelers - scrumptious!!! I would love to have those blooms growing on my bushes!! :)

Carol, it is such a great rose. I’m really happy with how it’s growing. Do you have this one? On a completely different topic, ugh I’m so frusterated. I thought I had gotten Chartreuse de Parme but I was mistaken. So bummed!

Agree with oursteelers that La Reine would be perfect for the pot for Carol: it's small like a mini-rose & low-thorn, and the repeat is fantastic for my zone 5. Plus the scent is old rose & fruity.

La Reine died to the crown after zone 5 winter thanks to my moving it last year, but sprouted back quickly to pump out large blooms. I constantly have to lime this to offset acidic rain.

Oursteelers - oh darn. It's too bad you didn't get CdP!! It's SUCH a good rose!! Although mine still hasn't recovered from my spring fiasco with acidity. Not a single new leaf. I've been using lots of lime...so I think it will recover like my other roses have started to do. It really must like alkalinity! No, I don't have Le Reine.

Straw - really!! It would be good in a pot! I don't think I've ever seen it for sale. But I'll try to remember. Yours is wonderful!!! Here's a question...when you say you constantly have to lime it...are you talking about a couple of tablespoons one a month...or more major like I have been doing?

Carol: Lime is best given as TINY DOSES (like 2 TBS.) prior to a heavy rain. We get heavy rain twice a month. One time it rained non-stop for 2 days, and I saw about 2 TBS of whitish mineral (both calcium plus potassium) leaching out of the bottom of one pot (elevated on bricks).

The problem of giving too much lime: plants pick up calcium first, then magnesium, then potassium last. So you want just a touch of lime to neutralize acidic rain (pH 4.5), but NOT TOO MUCH or else it will prevent plants from absorbing potassium.

If you lime prior to a rain make sure that you give high-potassium fertilizer after the heavy rain.

I've been giving lots of lime to save my plants from the acidity they've been suffering from. They've started to grow leaves now...nice and green. So, I'm hoping I did the right thing. I'll give them some potassium and some fertilizer today.

Carol, didn't you just give them slow release Osmocote or was that only to a few plants?

Yeah, but I gave them just a tiny amount of Osmocote. :) I didn't want to overwhelm my roses with a lot of fertilizer...they're still pretty awful. Turns out I have been overliming. What else is new...I'm the Queen of overdoing everything. We're getting rain on Tuesday...only about 1 mm, but that should help a little bit. Plus, I gave them a tiny bit of African Violet food...which is a bit acidic and doesn't have calcium in it. I really overdid it with the lime and ergo with the calcium. Sigh. I need a pH intervention.

You are cracking me up Carol! LOL! I shouldn't laugh at your troubles especially since they involve your roses,but you're so funny! What's the saying... If we can't laugh at ourselves

So true!!! LOL And it's true...my husband asked me if I wanted him to hide the lime, so I couldn't use it anymore. LOL

Re-check what Frank Gatto, the owner of rose-nursery advised for his high-rain acidic PNW location, and HE LIMED ONLY IN MARCH, and no more afterwards !! I checked on liming and lime DOES BURN in hot weather, and cause wilting & scorching of leaves from its extreme alkalinity (pH over 10).

Roses Unlimited formula for planting hole is a bit complicated, so I post a simple formula below (I also mix in 2 cups of alfalfa meal for growth-hormone). Frank Gatto's roses are grafted on Dr.Huey (prefers alkaline), so he's heavy on liming! I would use less lime (1/2 cup) for large & years-old established rose in high-rain climate. Farmers routinely use lime with nitrogen in spring time since lime boosts nitrogen uptake.

https://goodlifenw.blogspot.com/2012/07/seven-essentials-to-growing-healthy.html

"SOIL — For planting, Gatto mixes 50 percent native soil and 50 percent organic compost or potting soil and adds a cup each of bone meal and Garden Lime per bush. He also gives established plants a cup of lime in March, for optimal soil pH."

I translate this to 1/2 potting soil and 1/2 my clay (on top), also mix in 2 cups of alfalfa meal plus 1 cup Plant-Tone (has bone meal), and 1/4 cup lime to neutralize the acidity of 2 cups of alfalfa meal (or 2 TBS of lime to neutralize the acidity of 1 cup of alfalfa meal).

For LARGE established rose (grafted on Dr.Huey), Dr.Huey rootstock prefers alkaline pH, versus own-root prefer neutral pH, versus multiflora-rootstock prefers slightly acidic:

"Gatto advises giving roses small but frequent meals, as opposed to large amounts of fertilizer less often. He uses a balanced granular fertilizer with an N-P-K number no higher than 20 (such as 15-15-15), along with a blend of organic meals including alfalfa, cotton seed, fish, blood and kelp. "I give each one a handful (about a half a cup) every three weeks." Water thoroughly after feeding."

So he uses 1/2 cup of chemical fertilizer 10-10-10, plus 1/2 cup of organics like Espoma Tone per LARGE bush (3' x 2') every 3 weeks for grafted-on-Dr.Huey (heavy feeder).

Big-fat-foot-long-Dr.Huey-rootstock needs heavy fertilizer, but for tiny own-roots, I skip chemical fertilizer altogether and use only 1/4 cup organics every 2 weeks.

Since pots leach out nitrogen more, I use 1 TBS. Osmocote per month, plus 1/4 cup organics (Lilly Miller) every 2 weeks per pot. There is 6% sulfur per 1/4 cup of Osmocote PLUS NPK 15-9-12 (applied every 6 months per 2 gallon pot or 4 square feet, per label instruction). Sulfur is for growth & dark-green leaves, but Osmocote PLUS DOES NOT HAVE calcium.

Since we have heavy rain in spring, plus heavy rain in fall. I limit liming to early spring, or late fall with cool weather. Lime does burn, so best in cold & week-long rain.

Below is the Squire (older Austin rose), which has bush beauty (nice color), plus heat & drought tolerance (very thorny). Blooms have zillion petals, so the repeat is slow. The Squire with dark-green leaves prefer alkaline so does well with liming. I also give it potassium to prevent blackspot after blooming. Potassium should be twice more than calcium per rose-tissue-analysis:

Oooh!!! I love your last picture!!! :)

So I should add some kelp ever 3 weeks; 1 tbs Osmocote Plus/month; and 1/4 cup of Lilly Miller acid every 2 weeks? How about fish oil?

Fish emulsion NPK is 4-1-1, low-nitrogen so can be used weekly without salt-accumulation like MG-Soluble. Since Osmocote has zero calcium, and you already got too much lime, I would do Osmocote twice a month, and Lilly Miller (has calcium) once a month.

Osmocote PLUS is high in potassium so it will help with too much lime zapping out potassium. Too much lime zaps out potassium, so sulfate of potash can be used when you see potassium deficiency (yellow edge on lowest leaves, then progress to brown edge).

I just use Osmocote Plus every 6 months on pots.

I'll tell you what DOESN'T have bush beauty -- Yves Piaget. Gorgeous flower, powerful and lovely scent, long lasting bloom, but bush looks like...poop.

Deborah - hahaha!!! You are a hoot!! :) :)

Sheila and Straw - thanks so much!!! Sheila - I just used a big of Osmocote, since my roses are so bad that I didn't want to stress them out. So it will be good to add to that, I think. :)

Carol: The instruction on Osmocote PLUS is way too much all at once, very much like MG-soluble instruction of 1 TBS per gallon per 2 weeks, that's just too much at once. Nitrogen is best in split-application, esp. with soluble-fertilizer. Re-post what I wrote above:

There is 6% sulfur per 1/4 cup of Osmocote PLUS NPK 15-9-12 (applied every 6 months per 2 gallon pot or 4 square feet, per label instruction). Sulfur is for growth & dark-green leaves, but Osmocote PLUS DOES NOT HAVE calcium.

I find that trace-elements & calcium are best given in tiny doses frequently, rather than a big heap all at once. That's why I sprinkle 1 TBS of Osmocote on my pots when I see they need growth, rather than throwing 4 TBS (1/4 cup) per 2 gallon pot all at once. That's way too much, even if it's meant for 6 months.

Kentucky University conducted an experiment on different fertilizers, including organic in greenhouse with marigolds. The best result was using DILUTED amount in tiny doses frequently, rather than a big heap. Their best result in marigolds was by using 1 teaspoon of SOLUBLE fertilizer Peter's soluble NPK 20-20-20 per gallon of water, 3 times a week, rather than 1 TBS. once a week.

We get heavy rain & flash flood that leach out nutrients from pots fast, like 1/8 cup of whitish powder oozing out from the bottom of one pot after 2 days of rain. I find it more efficient to put a tiny amount frequently than a big heap at once, that's to prevent twice a month heavy rain from leaching out what I put into pots.

Perfum de Paris (a Delbard French rose) has bush-beauty, even as a 1-month-old band-size own-root (from LongAgoRoses), giving a 3-inch first bloom. Leaves are glossy & firm & upright cane, and best scent ever (just as good as Comte de Chambord). You can see the brownish/yellow edge on its leaves, thanks to my mixing in 1 cup of lime into the potting soil to neutralize the acidity of 2 cups of alfalfa meal. But that's much better than my killing 2 roses when I mixed in alfalfa pellets without neutralizing its acidity:

Straw - instead of big...I meant to say "bit." :) :) Interesting about fertilizing even more often than once/week. That's what I do with my streptocarpus plants....fertilize a little bit with every watering. And then once in a while just plain water.

Oooh!!! Oooh!!! I'm raising my hand!!! Me!! Me!!! I did that!!! LOL

But that's much better than my killing 2 roses when I mixed in alfalfa pellets without neutralizing its acidity:

@strawchicago z5

The closet plant to Marie Pavie I have grown that comes to mind is Mary Washington, however, I do not think it will tolerate a zone 5... although HMF ratings are not always accurate...