Love these doors. Of course, you can stain to color you wish.

Thank you julieste. It sounds like you have the home I would love to have! A buffet would be wonderful but I don’t really have a wall for it. My hutch is on the shorter right hand wall, windows are on the back wall, and a door (not shown) to the patio is on the shorter left hand wall. The other long wall leads to the kitchen. So all that is left are corner areas to fill in. Don’t know where I could fit a buffet. 🙁

Thank you Flo Mangan. The entry will be centered on the long wall. Originally we were going to put knee walls and craftsman columns at the entry to the DR, but the end run of kitchen cabinets sort of complicated that because a cabinet would have to butt up against the knee wall and I can’t afford to lose this cabinet To gain space and open up the area around the right knee wall. So at the moment we are playing around with DR entry options and I don’t have a final measurement. It could be 8 ft. to totally open to the kitchen except for perhaps small walls with some type of header to delineate the DR.

Thank you Flo Mangan for the other sketch and suggestions along with the patio doors. Love them. Again, though, my short left wall must have the door to the patio. Could I use your suggestions for a bench and put it under windows on the long wall and book cases flanking the windows as built ins?

Ok. I am trying to follow your words but a drawing would help so much. I need a sketch or picture to get this room designed properly. With 3 walls having doors and/or windows you definitely need 12’ wide. You have “transportation” on at least 3 sides! So 3’ space is needed for walking space. I can do accurate scale drawing but I need your help. Are you saying door to patio is on the wall I put the reading nook? In drawing 1a? Where is opening to kitchen on long wall? How wide is it? What are sizes of windows on long wall? Positions?

Thank you Flo Mangann.. I am reluctant to post the architect’s actual plan since I don’t know if that’s allowed, so here is my quick sketch. Again, we may not have knee walls and pillars. Also, I don’t know the size of the windows yet, but we spoke about pitting a larger stationary window in the middle flanked by two windows that open, possibly in prairie style.

My first home was a 1927 craftsman and the ceilings were 9.5'.

In my opinion, 8 ft ceilings would rule out many future buyers, including me. While I have 10 ft ceilings in my current house and love them, I was happy with 9’ ceilings in my last house too.

The things I suggest you think about are:

1. With 9 ft ceilings, you can get away with 6’8 doors; with 10ft, you will need to use 8’ doors or add transoms to 6’8 or 7’ doors. To me, 8 ft doors can look out of proportion if they are too narrow.

I have seen 3’0x8’0 doors in craftsman houses and they were beautiful.

2. How high do you want your window headers? 7’, 8’, 9’? The two places in my house with the absolute best natural light are the master bath and garage, where window headers at 9’. The higher the window headers, the further into your room the light will go. But, depending on your roofing, you may or may not be able to have high Windows. if this matters to you, tell your architect/builder this now.

best wishes in your new build!!

Either nine or ten feet high ceilings are going to cost you more. Is it worth the price difference for you?

If you have a single story room -- such as a sun room or den with ceiling fan -- in which you want to add windows over the doors and keep the ceiling level with the rest of the house but step down into the room the one or two feet difference to a lower floor, then nine or ten feet high ceilings make good sense.

Back to the dining room. You would have room for a small drop leaf or gateleg table at a window overlooking patio if you don’t have breakfast spot somewhere else? Just have to position and size window carefully. You could do a reading/storage bench under window too. Just keep those things in mind when sizing and placing windows. Standard table height is 30”. Seat standard height is 18”. By thinking about this now, you have options later if funds don’t allow now. Also, with an 8’ opening to the kitchen, I think you could do a modified tapered half column on each side to mimic craftsman styling. It is such a nice detail.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6126913/need-help-separating-end-kitchen-cabinet-and-dr-knee-wall-with-column

I think I like the white beams better, but it's probably not a fair comparison. The stained beams upstairs are VERY dark and I'm pretty sure they haven't been refinished in 50 years, possibly never. So they are a very dark stain with 50-100 year old shellac. The white-on-white of my current dining room is a bit...boring. Sand and refinish the upstairs beams with a lighter stain and polyurethane, and add a but of interest to the downstairs by varying the sheens or shades of white a bit...I don't know which I'd choose. They are both nice.

I think you should go with 9' ceilings. 10' ceilings do not feel cozy (more like open and spacious), but 9' ceilings are cozy while still not feeling clausterphobic. They are definitely the right height for a true craftsman home.

I also think you should push for wood trim. That is one of the defining features of a craftsman. Perhaps with the money you save from only doing 9' ceilings you can put it towards wood doors and trim?

Also, I highly recommend the Dover architectural books for inspiration. I have several reprints from the 1920's - 1940's and they have tons of built in ideas, trim ideas, door selection, and even great kitchen and bathroom ideas! I think the secret to great success with emulating a certain style is to really lean into it. Look up Greene and Greene homes. Even small inexpensive changes that show attention to detail can make for a truly beautiful home.

And yes, I vote for a built in in the dining room. It is a craftsman essential! Make sure you use quarter sawn oak and not flat sawn to get a proper craftsman look. 12' wide is perfect with your table size for your dining room. That is what I have and I would not want it any smaller. 10' is very narrow!

Here is one of the books I was talking about:

https://www.amazon.ca/Craftsman-Homes-Architecture-Furnishings-American-ebook/dp/B00A735M4O/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=dover+craftsman+homes&qid=1622333797&sr=8-1

They are filled with great drawings and ideas and are direct from the source (i.e. they are actually period, not period inspired).

I have revised the scale drawing and scanned the link from PPF so perhaps we can all get on the same page. Check this drawing out and see if I have the basics correct. I assumed and added a 36” wide door to your patio. I suggest high windows on the long wall so you have light entering but gain wall space. I put a small table and chairs for coffee and afternoon tea! I think you could just put two pillars with your tapered columns on top for craftsman look. You would still have 6’ opening and some open space around columns.

I also put two chairs on each side of table for more walk around space. I added a corner L shaped built in for buffet lay down space and storage below. For larger gatherings you could slide small table up to main table for greater seating at the dining table.

I am not a fan of beams in ceilings. They become major aggravation for furniture arrangements and other reasons. Especially with lower ceilings. Beams might be nice in living room but configuration has to work.

Thank you Flo Mangan. You’ve given me some good ideas. But I am confused about a few things:

1. Why are the table and chairs for coffee in front of the patio door?

2. You mention pillars with columns on top with a 6-ft opening. What would that look like? (I was thinking of a partial wall with a craftsman column.)

3. You also mentioned with an 8-ft opening using a “modified tapered half column on each side to mimic craftsman styling.” What would that look like?

Flo Mangann, would you please explain why beams “become major aggravation for furniture arrangements and other reasons.” Thank you.

The table in front of windows is for having morning tea or coffee since it has been stated the kitchen is small. I can’t find layout for kitchen. Perhaps it was on other threads? It is option different from a reading bench. I could do some detailed sketches but these take time and busy this holiday weekend. Elevations of styling for this and other built-ins are usually done by the architect because they have all the space specifications.

As to beams, there are many questions. Where will table sit in room? Will you want to turn it or push to wall at some point? Where will chandelier be hung? Are you doing built-ins or buy stand alone furniture? What is sizing including depths because that can impact locations of beam layout. Which way will they run? How will they interact with openings and/or windows? How big will they be? How deep? Is home more formal or more casual? Will beams be painted or stained? Will they be distressed or smooth? How many? Which direction will they run? Lots to consider.

the short person's guide to eliminating upper cabinets; a justifiable move!

Thank you decoenthusiaste. That’s great information. I’ve never seen it before.

@isabellagracepan-

one woman's cozy is another's claustrophobic.

It depends not only on one's height, but the ceiling height you grew accustomed to living with.

Joanie. I just checked your Ideabooks. You don’t have any. You can look up photos on Houzz and create Ideabooks and save favorite looks there. You can even add text with why you saved the photo. This will be very helpful to you because you have literally hundreds of decisions coming up and the builder won’t give you a lot of time to decide or he will delay and that will delay your project. Maybe you are saving pictures elsewhere? I recommend doing it, because you are doing a specialized home design with inherently complex details.

For example, are you going in a direction that I very Craftsman or are you going in a blend of traditional and Craftsman look?

Thank you Flo Mangan but actually I have a lot of idea books. I didn't know other people could see them, but I have 18 idea books.

To Flo Mangan, I think I am going with a blend of traditional and Craftsman because I can’t really afford to do all the expensive woodwork that is typical of a very Craftsman look.

Maybe you made your ideabooks “private”. It always helps to see what you are “saving”. Gives us direction. Thanks. Post some of your favorites here. Take a screen shot and then hit the little arrow in the box below and select those photos and click on “submit”. You can post 4 at a time. Like that. This is nice kitchen/dining room with trimmed out opening. You could do something like this. I would not do curve but straight lines and possibly hang Craftsman light for a touch that would bring the look in but not break the budget. Lots of lovely choices. Here are a few.

Just need to get wires into columns or sides of opening.

Oooh, love Flo's lighting ideas!

Joanie-

I think if you get some Mission lighting and a table and chairs that are Mission-ish or Prairie-ish or Stickley-ish style that will do the trick, you don't need to get all that carpentry to achieve your look.

After all, you aren't creating a museum diorama, just the feeling.

Thank you Flo Mangan for such good ideas! I absolutely LOVE this kitchen/dining room photo. The layout is very similar to what I will have, so the photo gives me an excellent idea of what it could look like. Questions:

1. How high are the ceilings In both rooms?

2. Most people here suggest going with 9 ft. ceilings, but these look like 8 ft. to me. I love the way the rooms in this pic look and feel, but would it change the look and feel much to go with 9 ft. ceilings if that is what is recommended?

3. Why would you not do the arch? (I’ve see some craftsman rooms that have arched openings so am curious as to your thought.)

4. Changing the lighting can make such a difference!

5. Can you please give me the link to this photo or tell me where I can find it? Sometimes there are more pics from this build and I would like to see the rest of the kitchen, DR, and house if possible.

Thanks in advance for your help with the above!

10

Glad you are inspired. That’s half the battle. I estimate the kitchen ceiling at between 9’ and 9.5’. 36 to countertop+18” to bottom of upper cabinets+lower section of cabinets 36”+18” glass door cabinets +8” super deep crown molding gets you to 116”/12= 9.6 feet. I think dining room is same.

Here is photo I used. On Houzz.

Thank you, Flo. I can see the photo, but how do I get to the article or post that contained this photo?

Trying to see how to grab it. I did a match and this came up. Same room.

Not much info though.

No luck yet. But in my search I ran across this cabinet hardware that is fabulous. Might want to tuck it away for future use.

Not too bad a price given the detail. You could do shaker type cabinet with this door pull and transform it to a custom look!

Thank you Flo Mangan. Looks great!

I highly recommend you pick up copies of the following books:

Bungalow by Jane Powell. (expensive and out of print but worth every penny. No I won't sell you my copy,) And any other books by Jane Powell

American Bungalow Style by Robert Winter

The Bungalow; America's Art's & Crafts Home by Paul Duchscherer

Along Bungalow Lines also by Paul Duchscherer.

Again, feel free to click on my name and message me.

Thank you cpartist. I messaged you yesterday in response to your post that said, “Message me your email so I can write you and then you can email me your floor plan. The dining room doesn't exist in a vacuum and neither do any of the other rooms so what happens in the dining room relates to what happens in the other rooms.” I will send something to you again.

I didn't get your first message but got your latest one and messaged you back.

cpartist give excellent suggestions for how to deal with 10 foot tall kitchens, keeping the ambiance Craftsman and attractive.

I will note I find 9 foot tall ceilings plenty fine for me, but go with feels comfortable to you. Although I do have a cathedral ceiling in the public part of the house.... (No, my house is not Craftsman). As someone else noted, you'll have to change your door heights and other aspects of your home to go with the increase in ceiling height - and that's not going to be cheap.

Even at six foot one, I don't feel cramped in homes that have 8 foot ceilings - I was just in one (probably built in the 60s or 70s) this past Sunday (after months of not being to get out and visit folk very often at all). It was fine. But 9 doesn't affect pricing as much as 10 feet would.

Please don't do without upper cabinets. You'll hurt resale, as not everyone is going to want to stop everything and remodel as soon as they move in. Even though I mostly have drawers, the lowest one is always a pain to access anyway..

In case you haven't already run across these ideas, they are worth a good read in terms of not just your ceilings, but your overall design theme.

https://nimvo.com/what-characteristics-define-a-craftsman-home/

https://www.dongardner.com/homes/design-elements-craftsman-style-plans

None of those Don Gardner homes are craftsman.

Since you are planning a mix of traditional and Craftsman you can choose which elements you like most and which fit your budget. I like staying as authentic as you can but everyone has their limits.