I do not have James Gal (but want want it). I do have SL and she is terrible. Second year, she still miserable barely grew and very tinny flowers. Idk what I’m doing wrong w her Bc every other rose in the same bed is loaded w buds and growing.

Year 2 and only 2 canes, barely any new growth.

compared to the generous gardener also on year 2:

So much new growth and so tall alread

I like own-root James Galway (great spring flush) but ASL is wimpy & stingy as own-root, even when it was in perfect potting soil.

What planting zone are you in? Are both your James Galway and ASL own-roots? I'm trying to figure out what went wrong with my ASL as own-root in zone 5a (-20 F below zero in winter). I have 30 Austin roses as own-roots and ASL is the most wimpy. Thanks.

@strawchicago z5, I am in Z7. All of my roses came directly from DA as bare-root plants. I didn't pay attention to whether they are own-root or not.

Did you use mycorrhizal powder at planting? Have you tested the soil where the ASL is planted? My soil is very different all over my garden, I have very rocky and shallow soil in some places, clay hardpan in others, dense tree roots in the next, and more sandy and loamy spots from different backfills etc.

When you say it was in "perfect potting soil", does that mean you've transplanted since you've had it? That may delay stronger growth by another season again.

Thank you. Your roses from DA would be grafted, and they are 10 times bigger than own-root. Own-root roses have TINY roots at 3 inch. as band and 6 inch. long as gallon. These roots are shorter than one's finger. I put all my own-roots in pots first, in fluffy MG-moisture-control potting soil. ASL was the only one that refused to bloom in a pot.

There is a big difference between own-roots and grafted-roses. Nearby rose park has grafted-Austins and their trunk is big like a large bush, and they get up to 7 feet tall. Own-roots start out at the size of a petunia, but they are best for cold zone.

That probably explains why my White Meidiland from HighcountryRoses that came in a quart pot 3 years ago are still nothing more than a 12" stalk! I shall buy nothing but bare-root roses from now on since it makes no difference to hardiness in my zone :)

Own root roses vary in vigor and some do get enormous. They start smaller but do not stay smaller. This has been true for Alaska and Oregon gardens.

I don't think that explains your White Mediland, French. Diane has a Twig Darby that seems to be small too that is own root.

I have own roots 15 feet tall from High Country Roses.

Of course, wimpy HT roses bred to be grafted are small on their own roots.

Some people think grafted plants don't live as long as own-root. I have old plants of both types. I had a grafted Madame Alfred Carriere that seemed more vigorous than my own root Madame Alfred. The own root one started out as a 3" tall plant. Eventually the grafted one declined and the own root one ended up two or three times bigger than the grafted one ever was. It takes time for them to do their catching up and surpassing, if that is in their genes.

For me A Shropshire Lad is not as vigorous as James Galway. In fact I'd have to hunt for ASL to see if it's still there. But your plant is very nice, Frenchcottage.

Agree with erasmus and Sheila: I post in rose forum since 2011, and read many posts dated back to 2005. The tons of blooms pics. that people post are often from 2nd-year grafted-roses, that's when they are at its peak.

Blooming depends on the age of the grafted-roses for particular climate. I visit both rose parks (Chicago Botanical Garden with 5,000 roses) and Cantigny garden with 1,200 roses. I visited Cantigny yearly for over a decade. The first and esp. 2nd year of roses grafted on Dr.Huey: tons of blooms (more blooms than leaves), then it's a drastic decline in 3rd year and the rose park replaces roses every 3 to 5 years.

Rose park's 1st and 2nd year Jude the Obscure's spring flush was amazing: zillion of petals, at least 40 blooms per bush. In the 3rd year late fall, I saw only one bloom on their 7 feet tall Jude (no matter how much fertilizer & water is given).

Dr.Huey-rootstock declines in freezing wet winter, esp. poor drainage clay. A friend in Southern CA gave up on her old grafted-Teasing Georgia which grows tall with zero blooms, versus Erasmus tons of blooms & many years-old own-root Teasing Georgia.

Multiflora-rootstock behaves the same in Pakistan's hot climate. Rosarians there report Multiflora drastic decline then death within 5 years.

A. Shopshire Lad is the wimpiest rose among my 134 own-root roses. Own-root ASL is mainly spring flush. Own-root James Galway has the vigor, it's 20 times bigger than ASL. James has thick canes and grew tall fast with 10+ blooms per flush in its first year as own-root.

Khalid in hot & dry Pakistan also reported ASL as the worst among his 200+ roses. There's a thread on ASL with many complaints, and the folks who successfully grow it have the ideal soil & climate & plenty of rain for it. I have never seen a 5+ year- old ASL blooming with good repeat, but I have seen many 10-year old own-root roses with tons of blooms like Erasmus and Sheila's gardens.

My James Galway now is 6 year own-root and it's giving 3 flushes a year, versus one flush for ASL. James Galway is best as own-root to keep it small & less watering. James' scent is moderate on the bush but becomes wonderful carnation once picked for the vase, plus James' blooms last much longer in the bush & vase than ASL:

James' pink clusters with the best scent (becomes stronger old rose & carnation in the vase), beating Dee-lish & many others' scents in this bouquet:

James Galway is the pink cluster along with purple Young Lycidas. James is best as own-root to control its height & less demand for water to repeat. I prune James down to 3 feet in spring, and give him no nitrogen, but high phosphorus & high potassium SOLUBLE with trace-elements, plus garden sulfur to lower pH. James repeats 3 flushes a year in my short-summer zone 5. James is compact & tall like a pillar, and NOT messy like other Austin climbers (crown princess mag). James is in 4 hours of morning sun, and I'm sure it blooms better if more sun:

@strawchicago z5, come on now... now you are really reaching for it! You have to reference some growers in Pakistan to make your point? Not that their culture conditions, soils, pests, soil microbiome would be a bit different... or is your point that you can make letters in bold font? Come on now!

My friend happens to have a grafted Teasing Georgia and she loves hers! It has great, strong growth and lots of perfumed flowers.

Show me some hard science in peer reviewed journals or at the very least from published authors that are known rose breeders and I would be most appreciative, but not some hearsay when ones own experience says the exact opposite.