I am companion-planting heirloom varieties of garlic around my roses in an effort to reduce deer damage this year. Not sure if it will work but it's worth a try and we want the garlic for eating anyway. I got two beds planted today and have another to do yet.

I have 5 new kinds of apples that have started bearing this year: D'Arcy Spice, Maiden Blush, Goldrush, Pink Parfait, and Rubaiyat. I am VERY excited to try them, especially the red-fleshed ones (Pink Parfait and Rubaiyat), which I planted in 2015 and they're just now starting to bear fruit.

From a horticultural point of view, my new innovation (copied from others) is to use cattle panels as arches to grow climbing veggies (cukes, beans, etc.). I'll be interested to see how it works.

Slumgullion: I love exotic apple flavors. I grew up in MI so we used to pick apples from the orchard. Best apple flavors are Sansu (juicy and sweet), Fuji (firm & sweet), Mutsu (yellow skin and huge & firm apple). Sansu was so delicious that I ate 3 a day and lost 5 lb. in a week !! Jazz apple at store is more tart than Sansu, but it's a good sub. I don't like Pink Lady (too sour).

Joey: My Mom used to grow garlic in MI, her tiny-garlic bulb was intensively flavorful. She gave me a tiny clump of garlic chives back in 2000 and they become invasive, they grow around my trees. I constantly have to kill them. The neighbor made delicious Chinese pot-stickers with garlic chives plus ground pork and nappa cabbage. This spring I copy-cat my neighbor's recipe, picked garlic chives' green-leaves, washed them, stored in refrig. But that STANK UP my refrig. even with double plastic bags. So I stored them inside my cool garage, and completely forgot about it.

A week later husband complained loudly about something dead and stinky in the garage. He thought it was a dead animal. He looked for the source and found my plastic bag of black mush. He asked if I'm doing "home-made fertilizer", and I realized it's the washed garlic chives' leaves that turned into black mush.

I had to hold my breadth while bringing it to the garden. I got the clever idea to deter rabbits by dumping the "fermented garlic-chives" on tiny 10th-year own-root Sharifa Asma. The acid of "pickled garlic chives" turned the tiny shoots into withered crisp. So instead of being eaten by rabbits, Sharifa Asma got killed by garlic chives. See pic. below of garlic chives, good to deter rabbits, but OLDER own-root roses are sensitive to any acid, including "fermented garlic chives".

@slumgullion in southern OR I'm doing the same thing, almost! Heavy duty animal fencing as veg arches this year. I am going to try to grow the following vertically: watermelon, green beans, peas, vining winter squash, indeterminate tomatoes. Plus some vining flowers here and there.

So exciting about your apples finally producing! What a long, patient wait.

Below ditch 1 foot wide, 1 foot deep solve both problems: tree-roots invasion and rabbits eating young roses. Hard to stop a dwarf cherry root. Double plastic edging stacked on top of each other didn't work, so I put cement blocks, but tree-roots crawled in where cement blocks join each other. But digging a deep trench STOP tree-roots, plus rabbits can't jump over a deep ditch. Fencing a rose bed didn't work before, since rabbits crawled under the fence, plus it's hard for me to sniff fragrant roses. I also planted stinky garlic chives at the shorter end as border around the raised bed to repel rabbits. Garlic chives work to repel rabbits, but it took a few years to form a dense hedge around the short-end of this rose-bed.

Strawchicago, your picture looks like regular chives rather than garlic chives? Garlic chives have flat leaves and white flowers. Regular chives have round leaves and pink flowers.

Sorry, I'm not trying to nitpick! I only offer the info in case it is useful.

The trench idea looks very smart, I'm going to pass it along to my sister who battles with rabbits in her garden...

Oops !! I loaded the wrong pic. Will come back to the upper post to correct it. Thank you for pointing that out. I have both regular chives (purple flower) and garlic chives (white flowers). Regular chives is not invasive, but garlic chives is extremely invasive (they sow seeds plus spread by roots). Bees love garlic chives' blooms. Now I cut off the blooms since I'm afraid they become seeds and invade my garden.

My Mom was not convinced that garlic plants repel bunnies. And I saw bunnies in the midst of her garlic plants with white-garlic bulbs. but I never see bunnies jumping over the garlic-chives border of my raised bed. It's less work to dig a ditch than killing invasive garlic chives.

Wow, now you're getting me worried...I've been letting garlic chives spread around my garden since I like to eat them, they're pretty, the bees like them, and I like to have stinky plants (garlic, lavender, thyme, etc.) all over the garden to confuse the insects that want to eat my fruit trees.

But maybe this will become a big headache if they eventually spread like you say!

...OTOH I'm in a much dryer climate than you are, so maybe they won't be able to be as big a nuisance as it sounds like they are for you. To date I've only seen them spreading close to where the watering emitters are, which is around the fruit trees, which is where I want them anyway....

Hmmm. I'll have to keep a close eye on the little buggers.

Strawchicago, Regarding the "fermented garlic chives killed a plant" experience, I wonder if it was really acidity (or ionic strength in general...shout-out to a fellow chemist!!) that caused the problem or whether it could have been something microbiological, like a fungus that was growing in the fermentation?

My B.S. degree is in computer science with a minor in chemistry. I also took microbiology in college (my most favorite class). It's NOT a fungus problem, since fungus takes a long time to cause damage.

I'm pretty sure it's the acid from the pickled garlic chives. I threw the fermented garlic chives on 10th-year own-root Sharifa Asma, then rinsed the bag with acidic rain water, plus threw a bucket of rain water on it. An hour later, Sharifa's new shoots & young leaves immediately wilted, similar to how lettuce wilts if doused with vinegar-salad dressing and let it soak. Below are Sharifa Asma blooms, I don't miss it, it shatters fast in the vase and the fruity scent is not as good as Princess Charlene de Monaco.

aha, thanks for clarifying!

Slumgullion: I appreciate your questions and insights very much. Thank you.

FOR RABBIT CONTROL:

I use cut-off 3-gallon plastic pots as collar around my 1st year own-roots to prevent rabbits devouring young roses. I keep them on early spring, and esp. late fall.

FOR JAPANESE BEETLES CONTROL:

I like zillion-petals Austin roses since Japanese Beetles can't get inside the tightly packed petals. Japanese Beetles devoured looser-form hybrid teas' blooms and Knock-outs. The many petals red-Austin have zero damage from Japanese Beetles. Not sure why JB prefer lighter colors (pink and white).

Feeding the birds help too. Birds control the population of Japanese Beetles. Before the bird-feeders, I killed at least a dozen Japanese beetles a day (by smashing them between my fingers). I get tired of doing that, so I installed Japanese Beetles traps for the past 5 year. It's very effective, down to spotting only 4 beetles on my roses at the height of season. There's a decrease of Beetles inside the trap each year. First year of trapping them, I changed the bag daily. I jumped on the bag to smash the beetles, then fed them to the birds.

After 5 years of doing that, there's very few beetles in the bag last year, and no damage to roses. Note:

1) Install JB traps FAR from roses.

2) Feed the birds to attract them to my garden

3) Grow zillion-petals roses, I use Knock-outs as "sacrificing lambs" for the beetles to eat. Beetles go for the loose-petals first.

Straw - oh my goodness!! I can see that happening as you progress in your story...it's something that I would do...totally forget it as it turned to mush and started to stink. And then your poor rose!! So good of you to share this so that no one else does this. :) You really put a lot of thought and effort into creating your barriers!! Great job!! Oh!! I can just imagine you jumping on the bag of JBs!!! I bet their shells breaking made a disgusting (yet gratifying) cracking sound. I hope JBs never come here. Your Sharifa Asma rose blooms are lovely...but I agree with you...your PCdM blooms are waaaay prettier!

Very smart strategies, Strawchicago! You're clearly a very thoughtful gardener and it's wonderful that you share all your discoveries with us.

I'm SOOOOO glad that Japanese Beetles are not (so far) one of the tribulations my garden has to cope with....

Straw, thanks for sharing. How did you apply Alfalfa meal? I bought a large bag but could not figure out how to use them :(.

Alfalfa meal tends to form a dry crust on top. Best to mix with top-soil to top existing plants. It's very dusty so a face-mask is handy. If your summer is hot & dry with alkaline tap water, mixing 1 cup of alfalfa meal with 3-gallon of potting soil helps to boost growth, plus UP the moisture. Alfalfa meal is slightly acidic at pH 5.8 which helps to offset alkaline-tap water (often at pH above 7.5, my tap water pH is 9). It doesn't burn roots like granular fertilizer when mix into soil for pots.

I use pellets, and I've never found there to be a crust on top. They keep their shape and get mushy and then finally are absorbed into the soil. But that's here. :)

Straw...would galic chives drop the ph in my weed tea? Nothing seems to drop it more than temporarily.

regarding garlic chives in weed-tea:

https://www.cannagardening.com/grow_it_yourself_garlic_chives

"Garlic chives discourage the spread of Japanese beetles, slugs, and cabbage worms, so place them where plants in full sunlight have a problem with these insect infestations. Garlic chives also repel aphids."

Agree with the above link, garlic chives is VERY STINKY for insects, but taste great in pot-stickers (made with chives, ground pork, ginger, and nappa cabbage).

The pH of weed-tea will drop after 3-days of soaking. I make pickled veggies often, and within 3 days, even with salt to delay souring, I can smell the "fermenting odor".

A friend in hot & dry Texas made fermented weed-tea to lower the pH of her alkaline tap water, except she left it too long, more than 3 days and it became sour and made roses break out in diseases.

Below pH chart by clemnson univeristy gives the pH of various fruits and veggies. Note that the green veggies like asparagus, zucchini, and brocolli are near neutral pH (6.7), but the pH of fruits are acidic. Veggies are alkaline for the body.

pH of sauerkraut is 3.6 compared to pH of vinegar at 3.4. I use 1 TBS of vinegar to lower the pH of one gallon tap water at 9 to neutral pH. So it would take 1 TBS of fermenting "green or weed" to lower the pH of tap water, if soaked for more than 3 days.

https://www.clemson.edu/extension/food/food2market/documents/ph_of_common_foods.pdf

I tested soaking chopped up mints in acidic rain water (pH 4.5). Since fresh mint is alkaline, there's zero change in pH when soaked overnight, but I did extract the growth hormone via soaking and roses LOVE IT. Folks root roses by soaking chopped up willow-branches in water in full sun for 1 day to extract its rooting-hormone.

Strawchicago...I'll check the ph since it has been 3 days...could be my issue is the timing. Also...you said something made you tomatoes less sweet....what was it? I have looked and looked and can't find it anywhere....It might have even been several years ago...(my husband does not like sweet tomatoes.)

Ann: It was too much acidic grass clippings and acidic gypsum in the planting hole of tomato last year .. they got plenty of calcium, but the taste was sour.

Days ago I checked my 32-garbage can filled with pH 9 tap water plus 4 cups of alfalfa pellets, plus lots of chopped mint (I pulled four 5-gallon buckets of mint plants). IT SMELLED SOUR (FERMENTED) AFTER ONLY 24 HRS. OF SOAK, I watered my roses yesterday and none of them become pale like previous time watering with pH 9 water.

The bottom of the garbage can was really sour, so I added more water, let it soak for 24 hrs., and checked today, it smells VERY SOUR, so I need to use this 2nd batch immediately.

I trust my nose better than any pH test. If it smells fermented after 24 hrs., then it's sour enough. There were 2 people who reported their roses broke out in blackspots after watered with alfalfa tea (too sour).

Below is my neighbor's hydrangea which she used Acid-fertilizer to make the blooms turn blue. Too much acid induced blackspots. Pic. taken July 28.

Acid and Calcium...going to try that to take some of the sweet out of my tomatoes for my husband. I spent lost of time this winter trying to find more savory tomatoes for him, yet they are still too sweet. I guess tomatoes are a little like rose scents, where they can change with what you put on them. So interesting! Come to think of it.....when I fertilized and put biochar on my fruit trees they tasted so, so much better than when the previous owner did not do anything to them.

Ann: You have alkaline soil, right? When our garden got started 20 years ago, the soil was black dense clay, very alkaline at pH near 8. And the tomatoes were very sweet .. cherry tomatoes taste like candies !!

Last year 2020 the pH of my soil was slightly acidic thanks to tons of acidic grass-clippings mixed in, plus acidic gypsum .. my daughter refused to eat the cherry tomatoes since it's so sour !!

So this year I put 4 cups of Garden Lime (pH 10) in the planting hole of each tomato, plus more lime on top prior to a heavy rain, and daughter starts eating cherry tomato again.

When I grew my 1st peach tree twenty years ago in rock hard clay, with dolomitic limestones at bottom, the peaches were very sweet, much sweeter than the ones in store.

Same with roses, the minute I UP the pH with Garden Lime (dolomitic lime), the scents become very sweet and fruity.

If we have all night rain at pH 4.5 and I forgot to lime roses, the fruity scents are gone with acidic pH, but the old rose scent become stronger with acidic rain. Old garden roses like Comte de Chambord and Duchess de Rohan bloom best and smell best with acidic rain, but modern roses (esp. the fruity scents) are most healthy with alkaline tap-water. Below is bouquets picked July 26, hot & dry at 91 F, the fruity scents are intense. Belinda Dream's is middle pink has raspberry scent on the bush, but gone once cut for the vase. Lowest white is Leander .. it supposed to be apricot but under alkaline pH it becomes white. I don't care since the scent is fantastic at alkaline pH, plus blooms last longer when there's enough calcium. My tap water pH is 9 and cut-blooms last long in the vase with high-calcium hard-well tap-water.

Straw - what is the big medium pink rose on the left? Hubba Hubba!! LOL

As to sweetness...I found the exact opposite with my strawberries. They tasted sour...so I added Lilly Miller's acid fert. and the strawberries are super sweet!! BUT, they've stopped blooming, and I think it's because I've been over fertilizing with nitrogen. So I'm just going to water without fert.

Carol: the big dark pink rose is The Dark Lady, can get to 4" across. I pH-tested Lilly Miller NPK 10-5-4 and it was neutral pH. It has calcium to balance out the sulfur. For flavors in fruits and scents in roses, phosphorus is one factor that UP the flavors. Lilly Miller has SOLUBLE phosphorus, so it helps. Nearby rose park uses high phosphorus fertilizer for more branching and their Eglantyne smelled way better than mine.

Oh, I was counting on Lily Miller to be acidic...it says for acid-loving plants. I guess I better get some alfalfa pellets into a bucket like you mentioned on another thread.

Straw...I have a strawberry in the same pot as Scentamental and the strawberry is showing that it needs calcium, Scentamental has yellow on the leaves (Pictures won't load for me because of our internet) ...I have garden lime or soluable gypsum, which would be better? And about how much in an approx. 7 gallon pot?

Below are some pics. of calcium deficiency: The first sign is darker-green leaves than normal, then wilting of tip shoot in high heat (esp. after acidic rain). When there is too much rain that leaches out calcium, holes also occur in leaves, as in below pic:

If you don't have calcium deficiency to the point of tip shoot wilting or top leaves twisted & wilted in high heat (esp. after heavy rain), then NO CALCIUM nor Azomite. Too much calcium applied induce potassium deficiency and magnesium deficiency (even if the soil is high in potassium and magnesium like clay).

Here's an excerpt from below link: "Cations (positively charged nutrients) bind to the soil based on the cation strength, with calcium cation strength equal to magnesium and stronger than potassium. Therefore, large additions of calcium will displace potassium on the soils cation exchange.

Calcium applied as lime or gypsum that are not based on soil test results could create deficiencies in other positively charged nutrients (cations), primarily magnesium and potassium."

https://nwdistrict.ifas.ufl.edu/phag/2015/07/10/are-you-sure-you-need-that-gypsum-calcium-induced-deficiencies-in-vegetables/

Also saturated soil (heavy rain) prevents plants from picking up calcium, but once soil dries up, plants can pick up calcium again. I don't give plants calcium unless the top shoot is wilting in the heat, or I see blackspots .. that means I have to raise the pH.

Thank you for the recommendation of soaking chopped mint for the growth hormone! Roses in pots are looking nice and perky with new growth even after thunderstorms this week.

So, I think I might be overwatering that pot and that is causing it not to get the calcium... growth is really poor on that Scentamental too...so maybe I'll try mulch of chopped mint.

Poor growth is from both lack of sulfur and calcium, so gypsum would be ideal for own-roots that refuse to grow. Gypsum (calcium sulfate) will be good for your strawberries (prefer acidic). Carol tested Acid-Lilly-Miller (has high % of calcium plus sulfur) on her strawberries and got sweeter & more berries.

I posted pics. before of Munstead Wood (1st-year-own-root) throwing a 3 feet octopus cane after I put gypsum on top with my alkaline-tap-water to balance gypsum's acidity. Below is a pic showing plant on right with sulfur deficiency (pale/yellow leaves that start at the top then spread through the entire plant). Note the stunt growth compared to normal plant on left:

Straw - now my strawberries aren't producing (and they're ever bearing). I think the nitrogen may have been too high in the Lilly Miller Acid fert? The leaves look GREAT! LOL

Carol: I agree that Lilly MIller NPK 10-5-4 (old formula) and ultragreen (Lilly Miller) new formula NPK 10-8-6 is too high in nitrogen (best for spring only).

After spring flush, I used chickity doo-doo NPK 5-3-2 on Savannah and the high-nitrogen delayed Savannah's second flush .. it's in the middle of 2nd flush now, versus Dee-lish (also in 4 hrs. of sun) is starting its 3rd flush, fertilized with Masterblend NPK 4-18-38.

I just received Paul Zimmerman’s book Everyday Roses and he offerers an interesting JB solution. He says cedar repells JBs much like it does Moths, but it must be applied as a liquid. He describes putting Cedar wood or shavings into a bucket, adding one gallon of boiling water and letting it sit over night. In the morning, pour off the liquid into a sprayer and spray. He advices to repeat weekly.

I have not tried it yet, but I intend to give it a go!

@strawchicago do you think this is a deficiency or just old leaves getting yellow?

This is on earth angel, plant looks healthy otherwise… thank you in advance

New leaves look good, it's only the old leaves that are yellowish. Yellowish old leaves are from temporary lack of water. It happened to my 2nd Dee-lish which is under a roof overhang that blocks out rain water, and I forgot to water it.

Straw - my strawberries are just starting to flower again...maybe it's because I haven't fertilized them in about 3 weeks to try to get rid of the nitrogen. Start talking smack about them...and they listened! LOL I put a red wriggler worm in half of my roses...I'll see if they make a difference. :)

Do you think that the spot anthracnose on Cere's older leaves (smaller) is because of high pH? But that it's gotten over that?

Markay - I bet that cedar infusion would work for all sorts of bad critters...even deer! :)

Anthracnose occurs when potassium level is low. Potassium is less available in DRY CONDITION as well as soaking wet condition. Knock-outs and Kordes roses which are immune from blackspots sometimes have anthracnose (black dots along the edge) when they are under stress (not enough water or too much acidic rain).

Potassium is most available in moist and fluffy soil. MG-potting soil back in 2012 had more peat moss and roots were soaking wet when I transferred own-roots into my clay. MG-potting soil changes in recent years to more sawdust (forest products) so it drains faster. It was a nuisance to water pots twice a day in hot weather, but potassium is more available, so I have to pinch off buds constantly on new own-roots (at least 20 buds EACH for these own-roots: Parfum de Paris, Well-Being, Sonia Rykiel). Below is Well-being, pic. taken July 14, 2-months after purchase as tiny band.

So far my Earth Angel doesn't seem to have many issues, even though she needs water everyday from her vigor....it maybe because she has a little cooler temps and more like 6 hours of sun a day, instead of 8 or so. I think Kordes don't enjoy too much heat...but I don't know.

With my overwatering...I'm using MG with moisture control for my baby, newly rooted roses so they stay just right moist......(I also repoted Distant Drums baby for the same reason.) .......but I'll watch my Kordes for anthracnose (black dots along the edge) as we are having record 100f + starting tomorrow.

I have already added small amounts of calcium in the pots to those that were wilting this last week and hoping they have less drought stress.

I don’t think lack of water is the issue. Maybe the contrary, as we have had a lot of rain the past couple of weeks (at least 2in a week). I fertilize with maxsea liquid which it’s 3-20-20…

Is this anthracnose? on my desdemona in a pot! good to know, will plant her asap

Rosecanadian I’m definitely going to try it on the roses that get hit the hardest. Teasing Georgia blooms get devoured so fast and my poor Deelish… they burrow into the buds as soon as they can find an opening!

CeresMer: Is your Earth Angel on the 1st pic. in the pot, or in dense clay? The new growth is healthy from the high-rain you got, but the yellowish leaves ARE THE OLDEST leaves, so that's from hot & dry prior to the heavy rain. Leaves get yellow if going from dry to soaking wet too fast.

The black dots on upper leaves of desdemona in a pot is from accumulation of too much trace elements in fertilizer. Trace elements' deficiency or excess show up on YOUNGEST LEAVES first. Pots accumulate fertilizer since there's not enough drainage like in the ground.