I'd agree to avoid smaller heaters, too much chance of overheating and they are of cheaper quality (which tend to malfunction). I put my betta rescues in a larger container with a heater. (container in container) Not pretty but works in winter. Others have own tank higher up which stays warmer. Also, many of my tanks have no heater (Betta rescue is near wall with window) so I use a room heater in dead of winter or when heater from building is off. RE: eclispe. I have a 2.5 gallon with betta male. I do not use the lid filter as I have found it too strong for the betta finnage, in such a small space especially. I take it off and use one of those small penn plak filters that stick on with suckers. I use a valve you can get to slow the filtration. (blueish things and very cheap) Cut tubing and stick one inbetween, then you adjust the flow, plus I stick the filter up higher to reduce air bubbles from tossing him around. They often like to hang near this though, and chase the bubbles. I think you can find a 2-3 gallon tank with glass lid and lighting. (they don't like esp bright light as well). Live plants are best mho, help with water quality, and they feed off of them (little things we can't see). I don't use gravel in such small spaces and do very little sweep off bottom once daily. Clean out completely (save part of water and filter with culture) when warranted, about once every other week. (just stuff on glass walls) Smaller sizes need extra care with re to water quality. Or a sponge filter with slower adjusted water flow. I like Anubias plants as they can deal with the low light and are easy to care for, ie no sand, just put on rock or wood piece. I attack a suction thing to wood then attach plant then put plants where I want them. Make sure rocks, wood so on are soft edged, betta fins are one cell thin and rip easily. (that little 7 watt bulb keeps the water pretty warm, although mine are on a higher ledge where warm air rises) Nana would be good for them. He sleeps under and on top of the little curled leaves, plus micro bugs are on them and he nibbles. I cut one of those coconut huts in half (don't have to) and one guy loves to sleep in there. Female in other tank could care less, lol. She sits on top of it though to rest. I was going to grow java moss on them but didn't have time nor does my java do well, except in betta rescue bowl (he can't swim so low bowl with moss tiles for him to scoot on, with small penn plax filter (I love these filters) and heated second containter. You can get a coconut hut and put Anubias, java fern or moss on them. As some were rescues, I have too many for larger tanks for each, hence the 2.5. A five would be a great size. PS. I was thinking of some sort of heating pad myself. Nice to see someone has invented them, so will look at that. Thanks. Good luck, Sherry

@ livebetter, you made me smile =D I felt so much better when I read your experience, especially "Every time he was close I could smell it and it wasn't a pleasant smell." That made me laugh, because I kept doing the same thing, except perhaps more melodramatically :) I have grown up on Shaklee, and have had the highest respect for their products and supplements, but I am also distrusting their assertion that everyone is "accepting it." **FACT-- we are not loving it, neither did my distributor, and the telephone customer service lady TOLD me the product was discussed at their "conference" and they are "working" on the scent/product further. In addition, my letter received what SEEMED to be a sarcastic/condescending reply, QUOTE "While we're sorry to hear that you do not like the new natural fragrance in Soft Fabric Concentrate, it seems rather _ironic_ that you would choose the old synthetic fragrance over the natural one." Hmm. Tell that to my nose. My nose isn't very smart, I guess. This may be a single-person response, and not a company-endorsed one, but still, a response like that leads me to suspect that they are becoming annoyed- by backlash?? I'm with you. I don't know what else to use. I just ordered two bottles of the old stuff (still available until stockout, they say), but I am hoping they don't substitute the new. In perspective, this isn't an earth-shattering situation of course, but it IS so nice to know that we're not just batty for reacting this way, lol! May your day be filled with "good scents" !

I'd recommend the Persil. Just got done answering an old thread about Purex Crystals which is pertinent here. Persil leaves clothes softer for 2 reasons: 1) It rinses very thoroughly. 2) It contains aluminium silicate aka bentonite clay. Bentonite is a natural fabric softener. It doesn't coat the fibers like tallow, fat, soy or silicone based softeners. It basically plumps them up. The drawback is you have to get the fibers really clean for it to work. So you may need a few loads of Persil, Charlies Soap, etc. to remove the remnant detergent in your laundry before it really works. If you use a clean rinsing detergent that you like already, for me that's Costco's Enviro Friendly liquid detergent, just add a bentonite clay softener to your load. The most readily available one in the market at the moment is Purex Crystals. Tide w/ a Touch of Downy is another choice that already has bentonite in it. It just doesn't rinse as cleanly as some other detergents. - IT Geek

there is a plant propogation book i have wherein the author describes his own mist system. that author has a large black coil of hose in the roof of his greenhouse so that water can be heated before reaching the mist nozzles. that's at least one vote for using warm water and keeping the cuttings reasonably warm as they root. just thought i would toss that in! lol. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mosaic z8 LA (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 11:59 With such a setup you could probably root roses under mist all winter here in Louisiana. And then as an added bonus, you could save on your power bills all summer by using it to steam your veggies :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: tammyinwv z6/WV (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:05 i have been unable to find the mist heads even within an hr from my home.Someone mentioned here they found them for .50 each.would anyone be willing to get me a couple and mail them? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: wild_garden virginia z6b (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:32 at my lowes store the mist heads where in the indoor gardening area next to the register, i doubt the people at lowes would have even know what to look for. it was with the drip irrigation supplies, as i said in the indoor gardening area next to the big outdoor area where they sell trees and things. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mist heads supply source Posted by: RoseHawke 7b AL (My Page) on Mon, May 12, 03 at 10:37 For you folks that haven't been able to find the heads locally, try going to this site: Dripworks or here's a direct link to one of the pages with some heads:Misters . I just a couple of weeks ago ordered some irrigation supplies from them and received them quite quickly. About 4 days if I remember correctly. Haven't had a chance to put it together yet, which is probably just as well as the flood we had last week would've probably washed everything down the creek ;-). I also have the Melnor timer, and it does seem a bit confusing about its ability to do a mist cycle, but what you're doing is programing it to do one cycle (on in the am; off in the pm) and punching in a choice of watering pattern, in this case the off for 10" on for 2" pattern. I believe the idea behind the pattern was/is actually to help prevent water run-off when doing overhead watering by allowing the water to soak in between the on phases. I bought this particular timer though because when I looked at it my mind said "Ah! Mist!" (heh), even though the reason I bought it at the time was to keep a new patch of zoysia sod watered until it rooted in. My batteries did last all season last year, but it was only opening that valve 4x a day for 3 weeks, and then 1x every 4 days for a couple of months. I can see where a misting pattern of opening and closing that valve many times during the day may eat batteries, but as ShamanSherpa pointed out, it's still cheaper than a $100+ misting timer! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: patclem z7 (or 6) TN (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 03 at 8:32 Regardless of how much water it wastes, etc, I decided to experiment with misting. I am TERRIBLE at rooting cuttings. I've tried baggies. I've tried jars. I've tried special cutting trays with plastic domes. I've had one rooted cutting out of probably 50. I had the same problem finding true super-fine mist systems in the south. None at Lowe's, none at HD. They're not popular here because they don't have the same evaporating effect they have in less humid areas of the country - they make you wet here. Here's where I found mist heads. They didn't charge me anything for shipping. They were super-good to deal with online. Web Page - Phone/Fax 888-693-0578 Local/Fax (719) 495-2266 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W401; Product: Monarch Misting Nozzles M-1; Amount: $7.40 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W519; Product: Reducing Tee for Monarch Misting Nozzles; Amount: $4.40 You have to go to Lowe's or local hardware store and get a hose adapter, timers, 1/2" PVC, PVC caps, etc. I have mine set up with 2 mist heads, and about a 6' diameter section of my grass is soaked! I don't have mine on a timer yet. Results? I don't have any yet, except none of my cuttings have turned black yet. PS - I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH THIS BUSINESS IN ANY WAY! Here is a link that might be useful: Mist Heads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: fuselighter 7/WA (My Page) on Thu, May 29, 03 at 21:41 I am so excited about the misting bed. I went out and bought all the supplies today. Total cost was about $15 (my husband had PVC and elbows left over from installing the sprinkler system). I would like to go to an intermittent system eventually, but for now I am going with continuous. The water bill is not an issue because we have an irrigation system (there is an annual fee but it is not based on usage). I set the whole thing up in about an hour. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: debbinard Z4CO (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 10:54 Shamansherpa -- I could not open your picture! I live in Colorado, it gets very warm middle of June (up to upper 90's) and stays low humidity. We are on outsidewater restrictions 2xweek, so I'm not sure this method would fly. Am wondering how visible this is, or if inside is an option under lights. At any rate, I would like to propigate some rose cuttings now (is this a good time?) My daughter in law is moving and would love some plants from a rose with sentimental value. Is the rooting hormone used just the usual or special for roses? Thanks Deb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 13:48 Deb, Maybe you could call your water extention office and see if you can get special permission, exsplain to them how little water it uses. Yes you use rooting hormone, there are many available. Dip and grow I here is supposed to be really good. I got some of the more exspensive stuff from a friend whom bought it threw rose imporium on line. But you can always use something like dip and grow. Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: rose_enthusiast z7 TX. (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 15:47 Hi there Deanna! It seems to me you've managed to help a lot of people with your invaluable info. And I would like to thank you for inspiring me to start a misting bed to root my cuttings. I have one question to add to the many others you've been getting though... What rose company is it that you get your rooting hormone from? Is it Rose Emporium or the Antique Rose Emporium? I would like to purchase this product as well, since you and this company are using this to successfully root your cuttings. Thanks Again, Carlos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 1:31 Carlos, Thank you but we should all thank AngieAnders, she is the one who did all the research and work to discover this method and then post it here for us last year! She truly diserves all the credit. I just wanted to keep any new people aware that have just started rooting this year. Best of luck all and don't forget to post your sucess! Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: epiphany z5b PA (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 9:28 I found the Arizona Mist system which is by Orbit as mentioned at Wal-Mart. It has 12' of tubing, end cap, six misting heads and hose adapter for $14.95. Of course, it is once again cold and wet here,......all of a balmy 56°. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: auntnana 6 TN (My Page) on Thu, Jun 5, 03 at 13:06 I ordered the misting heads mentioned above from Dripworks last year and they don't put out a fine mist as much as they do a fine spray/droplets. And even though I had a pressure regulator on there, I kept having a problem with the heads blowing off! (Their drippers work perfectly by the way so it's nothing against the company) I ordered foggers from Misty Mate this year and they put out a super fine fog. Perfect for propagation. They are a litte more expensive than the ones from Dripworks but worth it. And if you ask they will ship the misting heads for $1.50. I went to HD and bought a 10-24 tap and drill set (3.00) and drilled holes in my 1/2" cvpvc and the heads just screwed right in! I bought a Melnor timer at HD for $39 and it has 1 minute spray options so I've got it set for 1 minute every 10 minutes. Can't remember the model number but it's not the one on the HD website. I hope to finish my new propagation box soon. I built one on a stand this year so I can move it around easily. Wouldn't you know, HD has plastic sheeting made just for greenhouses that I used! It's not the real thick heavy stuff either. It's only 4mil and is crystal clear see-thru! Hopefully I'll be finished this week!