Where are you located?

Texas

Based on your location, if it’s one or the other, then the 18...

TD

Essentially the main difference between these two is efficiency. Depending on capacity size of the system the 24 SEER will save you from $20 to $30 on your electric bill with a rate around 12 cents per KWH.

If your rate is less than 12 cents, the energy savings is less.

It will save you some in heat mode too, but Texas is more warm than cold. So how long would it take you to recoup that $3000?

Somewhere in the realm of 14 to 21 years. If your view is that Texas electric rates are going to double in the next few years only then would the 24 SEER make cents. (some pun)

Once this system is out of warranty, starts breaking those Carrier parts don't come cheap you'll be looking to replace it once you start having break downs.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Is the Carrier Infinity 18 the heat pump included with the house? If so that is a very nice system. What is the size of the house and how long do you plan to live in it?

Here is the comparison of the two units:

The Infinity 24 has impressive numbers and is very quiet. The repair costs of the two is like to be the same. The 10 year parts warranty will help. Does Texas or the local utility offer any rebates for high SEER and EER equipment? If so then buying the Infinity 24 may make sense. Otherwise you are unlikely to see a return on your $3000 investment.

WARNING: be wary of the Carrier Infinity 24!!! Ever since it was installed in Aug 2020, it has made frequent groaning noise. Lately it added a “horror movie creaking” sound when the fan stops. The groaning can be heard two stories above the unit with windows closed! Installer and Carrier says this is “normal” - this means that we (and our neighbors!!) are stuck with listening to a groaning noise for the next 20 years. Sure once the fan is started it is a lot quieter than our system from 2000. But listening to it groan and creak many times day and night is irritating and doesn’t exactly instill confidence in the system or the installation.

Re: Sherri Dembowski

Is it just me? I can barely hear what you're trying to illustrate.

SR

Wow. then you either work for Carrier or you can have my system. we can hear the groaning upstairs with windows closed.

These units are "for the most part" very quiet and so any noise they do make will be questioned. The noises they do make are mostly due to design factors of the manufacturer.

New noises you're not accustomed to hearing is hard to get used to.

How loud is loud, how loud is quiet?

it's all subjective... partly another reason I am in the Bosch inverter camp... but to say Bosch doesn't ever make noise you can actually hear? That would be misleading. They are quiet most of the time > 90%

But people will often point to that 10% claiming there is a problem. That said: it's never a good idea to place these units near a window. That is another ingredient in the design of your HVAC system.

The design is often never mentioned. The *secret* ingredient that is worth the most in any HVAC system. The manufacturing world wants people to believe that brand xyz is all that matters.

Totally agree that ”loud” is subjective. But if i can hear this groan over the running water of my hydroponic system, and i can hear it over the TV in the living room and i can hear it in the upstairs bedroom with the window clsoed - then that seems an unacceptbale level. Am i happy that it’s quiet when the fan runs? Absolutely. Can either Carrier or my installer tell me a majority number of these systems make this same noise? Groaning and creaking indicate friction - friction indicates wear. i spent A LOT of money on this and am now stuck with it - totally disappointed and want others to be aware.

Most folks approach the decision between alternative HVAC systems from an efficiency and cost standpoint only. The other--and potentially more important--consideration is occupant comfort. The 24 SEER system will have enhanced dehumidification capability compared with the 18 SEER system. Lower relative humidity will enable you to be comfortable at a higher temperature setpoint so any operating cost savings would need to consider both the mechanical efficiency and the savings from operating at higher indoor temperatures.

If you assume a 15-year life expectancy of either system and a zero cost of capital, the $3,000 incremental cost for the 24 SEER system is $200/year cost or about $.60/day.

Ever since it was installed in Aug 2020, it has made frequent groaning noise. Lately it added a “horror movie creaking” sound when the fan stops.

I have never heard a Carrier 24 (model 25VNA4) until listening to your video. I agree what you are hearing on start up and shut down is not normal. If the noise is increasing then that is usually a sign of a mechanical failure is in progress and it the equipment will have a short life.

Was the installer a Carrier dealer? Did he bring the Carrier distributor representative to your house to listen to the noises? You have a 10 year parts warranty if the equipment was properly registered. How long is the labor warranty?

Yes, installer is authorized Carrier. They did not bring the Carrier person to our hoise. the installer told me they sent the video to Carrier and response was ”The slight groan noise is from the dc fan motor being pulsed the command at startup. I confirmed with him that this is normal operation.”

... And the creaking noise?

”The slight groan noise is from the dc fan motor being pulsed the command at startup. I confirmed with him that this is normal operation.”

I would ask them to specifically define “slight” in terms of an “A” weighted dbA measurement at what specific distance from the machine. Then with that information download to a smart phone a ‘Sound Pressure’ sound meter App that measures and records dbA with the use of your camera using the App so that you have an accurate record and recording of both the meter in active recording mode in the App and video of your HP at the prescribed distance (use and record a tape measure in your video measuring distance of the phone from the HP).

Then e-mail them the downloaded recorded data straight from the App for analysis and comment.

IMPO

SR

I am skeptical about the sending a video to Carrier statement. Tell the installer you want the Carrier representative to come to your house and listen to the condenser from inside your house. If he refuses then ask to have the installer take you to another 25VNA4 condenser he installed so you can listen to it.

If this is a Carrier Factory Authorized dealer, then they have an obligation to make you happy or remove the equipment and refund your money. I found a few videos on line showing the quiet operation of this condenser. No mention of any of the things you are hearing.

I appreciate you searching for other videos and reports of such noises. I will reach out to the installer and make that request.

I had only sent them a video of the groaning in the most recent email to them. So they did not address the creaking noise in that communication. So far, their stance is "if the system is not reporting faults/errors, then everything is fine" -- they care little about the noises the unit is making.

I found the Carrier 25VNA service manual. On page 9 there is a note about installing a muffler on the vapor line. Here is the section:

Has this muffler been installed on your system? If it is missing an error code will not be produced. This falls under improper installation. I can't tell you if this is going to solve the problem or not. But you should be questioning whether the equipment has been installed properly.

Another thing you ask about is for the installer to measure the sound level. Carrier makes a claim of "as low as 51 decibels". However there is no description of how this sound is measured. Most installers don't carry sound measuring equipment on their truck. But I would use it as an argument the Carrier distributor representative needs to come to your house and hear how loud the condenser is on start up and shut down.

You paid a lot of money for this top of the line equipment and should get quiet operation. Good luck in your fight.

Re: mike_home

“I found the Carrier 25VNA service manual. On page 9 there is a note about installing a muffler on the vapor line. Here is the section:”

If you read the attached page, the muffler is to reduce transmitted sound to indoors. Poster is complaining about outdoor noise.

IMPO

SR

Re: fsq4cw

You are correct, that is why I said I don't know if this will solve the problem. The homeowner is complaining about indoor noise, so asking for this muffler is not a big stretch.

Based on what I have read so far, we have an installer who is saying I only fix noise problems which generate an error code. The installer also said they sent the video to "Carrier". We don't know what Carrier means in this context. Is it the distributor or someone at Carrier corporation headquarters?

My thinking is to verify the equipment has been installed correctly. So if the installer has left out the factory supplied muffler which is required for every installation then the homeowner can raise some doubt about what other things were not done properly. Unfortunately this is the tact you have to take when installers who don't care enough to make an effort to resolve a customer concern. The one year labor warranty has expired. There is little incentive to do any free work.

Thank you for the info from the manual! i will try to figure that out. The installer left me a message today that they will get Carrier to my home.

Well that is a positive step. Share an update after the visit.

Unfortunately this is the tact you have to take when installers who don't care enough to make an effort to resolve a customer concern. The one year labor warranty has expired. There is little incentive to do any free work.

Exactly Mike, this is why the terms "Factory Authorized Dealer" mean nothing. It will be interesting what Carrier has to say.