With the Moderna, I felt zero pain going in and even after. But when I watch footage it looks scary but it is not.

I'm sorry she has a fear of needles, I do know a few who do too. I think I would encourage her to get whichever vaccine is available to her with a convenient appointment and not worry about the actual application. It's going to be so fast, her discomfort just thinking about it before hand will be much greater than the actual shot.

My nephew is working in a department store since losing his job early on with pandemic closures. Dealing with strangers all day long. Lagging behind once becoming eligible, I made an appointment for him, and told him, if you miss this I will beat on you :0) He went. Pfizer, will have the second next week.

Part of my Army Medic training was learning and practicing (over and over) giving various types of injections, starting IVs, and drawing blood. The greatest culprit likely to cause a stinging sensation when a needle goes in is the alcohol used to clean the site. If it hasn't dried, the needle takes alcohol under the skin at the injection site and just like when pouring alcohol onto a cut or other break in the skin, it burns. This kind of needlework doesn't take a genius to do correctly but when a needle bearer hasn't allowed enough time for the alcohol from the wipe to dry, help them remember. Pain or reactions after an injection are caused by the body's reaction to the substance and have nothing to do with the injection itself. My Moderna injections were done with a very, very small gauge needle. I couldn't feel the needle going in or coming out at all.

You should help your daughter get to the point where she has less anxiety about injections and needle sticks. It's a necessity of getting medical treatment, there's no reason for an adult to be terrified.

Each person is different. One of my SILs swore that she could feel the pressure of any needle before it even entered her arm. If your daughter is afraid of needles she will feel it worse than most people. She just needs to go do it. Perhaps if you give her a sucker after she will feel better.

Tell her to be thankful that some of the old style nurses are no longer working. As a child at the doctor's clinic my parents took us to the nurses said that they were trained to stretch the skin then inject the needle as if it as a dart. Once in the skin they pushed it in and injected whatever was in it. I always thought they just hated their patients.

What made shots from "old style nurses" painful in the olden days was reusable needles. That's mostly all there was decades ago and they got dull. Often very dull. They were sterilized between uses of course.

You did have to push harder to get them in compared to modern, one-use needles that are always as sharp as brand new. Because they are. Also, I believe smaller gauge needles are more commonly used now than they used to be, that also makes a difference.

"But having your blood drawn isn't supposed to hurt!!"

Agree! It's never bothered me at all.

I have veins that roll so while blood draws are not supposed to hurt fishing for the vein when it rolls can hurt. Normally on me just leaves a large bruise that can sometimes seep for a day or so. Lucky are the people who do not have this problem.

My sister got J and J. No issues. About 90 people at my job site got J and J--no reported issues. They were all thrilled with it. Nobody complained about size of needle or any post-vaccine issues. I got Moderna but wish I had J and J. My understanding is that it was tested against the variants.

Ha ha! I have funny (now) memories of my mom giving me allergy shots in the long-ago days when that was allowed. She boiled the needle to reuse at least once, if not more often. I would be quite horrified when the needle was too dull to go in easily, but she'd keep trying. Oh, Mom.

Maifleur, my daughter is in her late 20s so she would probably be slightly offended if I offered her a lollypop after the shot. :)

Elmer, saying she should just suck it up and get over it means you do not understand what a phobia is. (It's not only fear of pain.) We have a 60-y-o friend who is an engineer with a scientific mind, who has had a chronic cancer for years; he has gone through many rounds of chemo in those years. He has the phobia as well, worked out a protocol that helps somewhat, and is still terrified of needles.

Had the J&J, the stick had absolutely no pain, plus (I got it a few weeks ago) no side effects. Love that it's 'one and done'.

"Phobia" is a big and probably overused word but I think most people experience at least some situations or circumstances that can make them feel uncomfortable. Situational discomfort is much more understandable when real danger potential is involved and not understandable at all when there's no personal jeopardy or risk.

There's no danger involved with an injection or blood draw, so yes, I'd say she just needs to suck it up. Take deep breaths, close her eyes, it's over quickly.

what a phobia is

A phobia is irrational but the anxiety can be overwhelming. I don't know that forcing someone to overcome their phobia would help, and it might damage the relationship the phobic has with the forcer.

There are ways such as desensitizing that can slowly help the phobic.

On the news this evening Kansas University Med Center has opened a second ICU area. The incoming are mostly 30-50s. They are one of the bigger hospitals here but also is one of the main transfer in hospitals along with Wichita for the eastern part of the state. The western part are transferred to Denver or Colorado Springs. As many people as I saw out today the number will grow. Full seating at restaurants started today for this area.

May you never have to deal with a phobia, Elmer. Yes, Lucille is correct.

I can only hope the daughter does not get the virus and her mother does not need to make arrangements as so many other mothers and fathers have had to do before the vaccines were available. Perhaps asking the daughter what she would like them to be could shake her up enough to get the shot.

My daughter hates needles too and still hasn't gotten her vaccination. She says she will but we'll see. There have been blood clots with the Moderna and Pfizer also, more than J & J. You also have a higher chance of getting blood clots by actually getting the virus.

Tell your daughter the needle is the same size because it is. They do not use longer or larger needle's for the different vaccine's. It will be over in a quick second, hope you can go with her. I understand her phobia. Good luck.,

"May you never have to deal with a phobia, Elmer."

I'm not sure what phobias exactly are but I do have some situations I'm uncomfortable with. That involve real potential danger for me. I have poor balance and I avoid standing near drop-offs, cliffs, or on ladders. As I see it, it's not so much a "fear" but rather a risk avoidance I'm aware of. I can lose my balance on level ground.

If you can give a name to a low or no risk but still debilitating attitude or feeling someone has that they might be able to deal with but don't try, do you stop? Because that seems to be your view of your daughter's situation.

I had the JJ vaccine and I don’t recall it hurting any more than any other injection if received. It was really a non-event. I did have some mild side effects the evening of the next day but was perfectly fine by the next morning. I did experience a little arm tenderness that lasted several days but again, not terribly notable.

Elmer, you just said it yourself...' I'm not sure what phobias exactly are'. So, if you don't know, maybe you shouldn't comment on them or how you think they should best be handled. Consider yourself lucky that you don't understand them.

The comment you quoted was my way of describing my observation that people have a tendency to give things a label and then stop, as if suggesting that having come up with a label, whether it fits or doesn't fit, is the end of the process of dealing with it. "I know what to call it now, that's a good excuse, so there's nothing left I need to think about or do".

A friend of ours describes her adult child's failure to launch status by saying "Oh, it's because he has ADHD". That's been her excuse for him his whole life but it hasn't led to his getting treatment or help for it. He's a bright kid and has a college degree but is lazy. Since his mother still coddles him as if he were 8 years old, he apparently has decided that being momma's little boy is much easier than working. Give it a name, that's the reason, no need to do anything more.

Being terrified of injections isn't risk or danger avoidance. It's maybe the opposite, People can and do avoid proper medical treatment and assessment for that reason. Which is why I said it's suck it up time. Okay for little kids to feel that way until they're taught otherwise.

I don't need to repeat the same thought any more, I have nothing else to add. Any and all are welcome to disagree.

Thanks for the explanation of ADHD, but phobia isn't the same thing. To tell a true phobic to 'suck it up', is just proof of your ignorance on the subject.

I gave no explanation of ADHD.

What's a phobia? How is that label similar and how different from various types of personal aversions, distrusts, dislkes? Is it a permanent condition?

Well, whatever that tid bit of info was. I don't see how your ADHD story has any relevance to a phobia. (but I'm sure you'll let me know). I apologize to Sjerin, as all she was asking was a simple question. And as what happens quite a bit here, it turned into something totally off topic.

Here is a thread about a mother helping her autistic son get his jab. Read through the whole thing. It's long, but in the end it worked.

FWIW, I am on the suck it up side of such matters. I think the word phobia is abused and turned into an excuse much too easily- similarly to my saying I have OCD about cleanliness. I am not being treated for such an ailment. I simply use the argot of the day to explain I am a bit more uptight than the average camper about cleanliness. If a person has a phobia about something that impacts normal life, like getting proper medical care, then that phobia must be treated by a pro.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/6110283/help-with-needle-phobia#n=65

Thank you zalco. Not for the first time, your eloquence helped explain thoughts I share but couldn't express clearly.

My high school football coach used to say something like this: "an excuse is just a weak reason for a failure and that's YOUR problem to fix. I don't give a _ _ _ _ why YOU think having an excuse makes it okay because it doesn't, a failure is a failure. Tell me what you're going to do differently to avoid the failure next time, don't tell me why you think it's okay because you have an excuse."

Here is an overview of phobias and their treatment from Harvard Medical

https://www.health.harvard.edu/a_to_z/phobia-a-to-z

I don't think o.p.'s daughter is autistic. And also, a phobia is not the same as OCD. But ok. 🤔

Oh, I understand your thoughts, Elmer.

No one said op's daughter was autistic. The autistic son from the thread above was very afraid of getting the jab just like the op's daughter. Many ideas were shared about how to make the process easier for him, and in the end he did what needed to be done without difficulty.

OCD and phobias are both anxiety disorders, btw. And while they are not the same they both have the distinction of being discussed in clinically as well as colloquially.

And also, a phobia is not the same as OCD. But ok. 🤔

See, ritamay, using medical words in non medical ways is tricky. What you think is irrelevant. OCD and phobias are both classified under anxiety disorders. The Harvard piece I linked to earlier makes that clear about phobias. And the link below from PubMed/nih website discussing classification of ocd behaviors comes to the same conclusion.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20533366/

And now the 'discussion' has gone on another turn. OCD vs phobias. Lol....I'm out.

Good move, ritamay. ^^^^^

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) outlines 7 diagnostic criteria for specific phobias:

• Marked fear or anxiety about a specific object or situation (In children fear or anxiety may be expressed by crying, tantrums, freezing, or clinging).
• The phobic object or situation almost always provokes immediate fear or anxiety.
• The phobic object or situation is avoided or endured with intense fear or anxiety.
• The fear or anxiety is out of proportion to the actual danger posed by the specific object or situation and to the sociocultural context.
• The fear, anxiety, or avoidance is persistent, typically lasting for 6 months or more.
• The fear, anxiety, or avoidance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
• The disturbance is not better explained by symptoms of another mental disorder, including fear, anxiety, and avoidance of situations associated with panic-like symptoms or other incapacitating symptoms; objects or situations related to obsessions; reminders of traumatic events; separation from home or attachment figures; or social situations.

International Classification of Diseases

"• The fear or anxiety is out of proportion to the actual danger posed by the specific object or situation and to the sociocultural context"

Thanks mdln. This particular one is on point for this conversation..

Phobias are not under your control. My ex used to faint over shots. He improved with positive experiences but he still could faint. He wasnt afraid of shots but they brought back bad stuff from his dentist as a child. I am afraid to fly. I wasnt for half my life then I was. I have panic attacks about it. I am totally aware that flying is not dangerous. It doesnt matter. I take drugs when I fly. Sucking it up would be very unpleasant for the rest of the people on the plane.

Not looking while they give the shot is a good idea says she who is not the least afraid of shots, blood draws, minor surgery or any other possibly physically painful process.

A variety of responses to a picture of a harmless snake; some seem to be quite phobic:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/6107297/sharing-a-picture-of-my-front-porch-visitor

Having a dislike or aversion to something is hardly the same as a debilitating fear driven "phobia" that's disproportionate to the circumstance or subject matter involved. Which you may have garnered had you read earlier contributions.

If you are still interested in the effects of the one shot called the J and J, I had it and I didn’t feel the needle or have any side effects at all. I was told to stay there for 15 minutes and do swimming strokes. There was a person who stayed with me until my time was up. How about that for terrific service for an old lady. When I signed up for it over the phone I asked the woman if I would have to walk very far. She said why don’t we sign you up to have your shot in your car. Well they were waiting for me at this big shopping center parking lot and they walk ran with me to show me to a private area in back of the big box stores. It was a grand experience here in Alexandria Virginia where there were plenty of volunteers and plenty of health workers. I’m sorry to hear that there are so many people who don’t want the shot. Their reasons I believe are bigger issues than just being afraid. It’s very sad.

I despise snakes and avoid them. If for any reason I have to be around a snake, I figure out how to cope. As a mother of boys, trust me, I have had to be around a few of those, btw. That is not the same as a phobia. What makes this hard to understand?

Having a dislike or aversion to something is hardly the same as a debilitating fear driven "phobia" that's disproportionate

One of the responses by a poster in the linked thread was a comment that she would have to burn her house down. That seems disproportionate to me.

Why not make your comments in your own words? You seem to like to link to prior threads, why not instead use words to summarize what you want to say? I saw it was a link and stopped because I didn't have an interest in reading a column full of comments looking for what you had in mind. I'm sure others did the same.

Those who don't feel pain with a blood draw are lucky! I have had my blood taken many times and I always feel it. I have difficult veins though that roll so they often have to dig to try to find them. That's the most painful part.

I had one blood draw that took 13 different attempts by 4 different people before a doctor had to come do it. And another where 3 people tried, none could get any blood and they finally sent me somewhere else.

I dread it! I've started telling them to take from my hand. Hurts a little more but they can usually get on the first try.

Kathsgrdn - Would you please cite some medical sources for this claim that you made earlier?

My daughter hates needles too and still hasn't gotten her vaccination. She says she will but we'll see. There have been blood clots with the Moderna and Pfizer also, more than J & J. You also have a higher chance of getting blood clots by actually getting the virus.

I hope this doesn't get pulled because I need to know of anyone's experience with one. Daughter is terrified of needles but at the same time definitely wants a shot.

Sjerin, back on track, I hope you have seen that in terms of actual discomfort from the J&J I had no discomfort. I do understand your, and her, situation, however.

Chi, I'm sorry you have to go through that. My mom had terrible rolling veins.

There have been blood clots with the Moderna and Pfizer also, more than J & J.

Really? I hadn't heard that.

You also have a higher chance of getting blood clots by actually getting the virus.

But I knew that blot clots have been caused by Covid than any vaccine.

Sorry I've been away--mentally and physically prepping for a colonoscopy. All seems well.

No, daughter is not autistic, just has some difficult phobias.

No, I was not a "There, there, whatever you want, honey" kind of mother. You can lead that horse to water via different routes, but if it's not going to drink, it's not going to drink. Again, daughter is in her late 20s. She also has an insect phobia that she get from me. Funnily enough, she thinks rats are cute whether in cages or in our backyard.

I very much appreciate all the thoughts and experiences expressed here--thank you!

Haha, Lars! She might like that. :)

Maggie, that is indeed very good service and I'm glad they were kind to you.

Chi, wow, that tops my mother trying to get a dull needle into my arm!

Patriciae_gw, I went with a friend to have her blood drawn so they could see if she was a match for her extremely preemie newborn niece, and she did indeed nearly pass out. This friend is no slouch when it comes to unpleasant things, but she has a phobia.

Thanks for your thoughts and info, RitaMay and Mdln.