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roafwilliams

I need general floor plan advice. And what about that foyer? Thanks!

roafwilliams
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago

Hi, all! I’d appreciate any advice, thoughts, concerns on our floor plan if you have them. The foyer is offset inside (but not outside) to allow for an entry table. This kinda bugs me as I’m not sure how to handle the lighting in this area (should I still center a light fixture to the door? Don’t have one at all?).

I‘m also not sold on that linen closet in the upstairs hallway - part of me wants to just leave that space open (there’s already another storage closet right next to it). Pics below.

Appreciate y’all!







Adding a zoomed in photo of the 1st floor.



Comments (39)

  • chispa
    2 years ago

    First floor photo is too small to read any measurements, even after clicking on it.

    roafwilliams thanked chispa
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  • roafwilliams
    Original Author
    2 years ago


    Hopefully this one is easier to see - cropped out the garages.

  • SBDRH
    2 years ago

    All kidding aside, I don't think there's any harm in the upstairs linen closet. Easy enough to access for sheets and towels, while you can use the storage closet for the vacuum cleaner, etc.


    A hanging light in the foyer centered to the door might look odd. Perhaps have a hanging fixture on the front porch and do can fixtures in the foyer ceiling?

    roafwilliams thanked SBDRH
  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    2 years ago

    To address your two concerns- the linen closet upstairs defines the bedroom hall and creates privacy for bedroom 4 so that won't be the first view when you get to the top of the stairs


    Your house is not symmetrical so the foyer does not bother me- presumably it will have a 9' ceiling or so, just hand a pretty pendant and have lamps on the table as well. Things don't actually have to all line up as we rarely stand still in our houses...

  • roafwilliams
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Ha! Well I appreciated your previous comment all the same 😊


    That’s a great suggestion. I’m still wrestling on whether or not I should commit to that foyer layout or just take it back to how it was before (centered inside without that little bump out) and give up on that whole “walk in and see a beautiful console table” moment. Thanks for your input!

  • SBDRH
    2 years ago

    Also there are a LOT of double doors. I'd suggest a single swing-in door into the pantry, a swing-out door into the master toilet room, and a single door into the master bedroom for better sound isolation. Otherwise I like the floorplan quite a lot!


    roafwilliams thanked SBDRH
  • vinmarks
    2 years ago

    My closet is located off my bathroom and I have had it this way in other houses and never has any of my clothing gotten moldy. This is like saying you can't have a linen closet in your bathroom because everything will get moldy.


    A quick glance at your plan and the first thing that caught my eye is all those double doors. You even have a double door going into the toilet room. I think that is the first time i have seen that on someones plan.

    roafwilliams thanked vinmarks
  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    2 years ago

    I did not notice all those double doors- yikes! Toilet! Master bedroom? Nope nope nope that back to the architect. I like them in the pantry if they swing both ways...

    roafwilliams thanked HALLETT & Co.
  • roafwilliams
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    The abundance of double doors didn’t even register to me! 😳 Thanks to y’all for pointing that out - will definitely revisit that/tweak with the BIM designer.

  • chispa
    2 years ago

    I like pocket doors, but you have them in locations that should NEVER have a pocket door, like bathrooms off a hallway. Pocket doors never seem to lock 100% so a powder room or bathroom that is used by guests is not the right place for one.

    roafwilliams thanked chispa
  • Brandie May
    2 years ago

    @SBDRH I lol'ed when I read your lessons learned from Houzz. How are you liking your plopped house?

  • bpath
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Would you consider swapping the media nook and the pantry? You’ll probably spend extended time in the media nook and might like some natural light at some point. You’ll only be stepping in and out of the pantry, right?, so just an automatic light bulb will work fine. And the pantry will be that much closer to the garage for bringing in groceries.

    How WILL you use the media nook? Me, I’d use it to get up and read in the middle of the night, but I’d want a window to know if the dawn is breaking. If you need it super dark, you could add blackout blinds for those times.

    The garage is going to really stick out In front. Will the driveway loop across the front of the house before going to the garages? Otherwise, your guests will have a looooong walk before they can even see the front door.

    Why is there a bench in the kitchen?

  • SBDRH
    2 years ago

    @Brandie May we couldn't be happier with how the poorly thought out, plan-factory internet non-architect-designed "dark cave" of a house just plopped on the site turned out. :)


  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Stand in the foyer with the electrician before they begin their work and discuss the light fixture locations.

    The linen closet provides a privacy screen to bedroom #4 and does not ned to be that deep. I like to keep clean linens storage separate from cleaning supplies and equipment storage.

    I think you will find pocket doors clumsy and noisy to operate.

    Your master shower will be cold and drafty.

    Having to open two small doors to enter a space can be cumbersome.

    I never liked Jack & Jill bathrooms or any bathroom with two entry doors.

    Overall some spaces seem larger than they need to be and the way the flat ceilings of the foyer and kitchen transition with the vaulted ceiling of the living room will need to be carefully done.

    The gas chamber has two exterior walls and no windows, worse than a public restroom toilet stall.

  • just_janni
    2 years ago

    Echo the comments about all the double doors and pocket doors.


    I think the J&J bathroom upstairs is inefficient. And I don't understand the concept of most of these - but in this case, someone can wash his / her hands and someone else can use the toilet. Okay, I guess. But no one can shower and wash hands, or shower and use toilet. Really - what's one more tub and toilet to make 2 full baths?


    The master shower - it will be cold in the winter without a door. I have a doorless shower today and I am fixing that in next house. I think the open showers look good on the plans, but are uncomfortable in practice.


    What is the style / look you are going for on the exterior? Possible it's the line drawing, but it doesn't feel cohesive to me.


  • roafwilliams
    Original Author
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    @bpath

    Thanks for your comments. :)

    My husband is a gamer - hence the need for a little media space to tuck away all of his Marvel/DC/PS5/anime things (right now he uses a small desk in our bedroom and we talk while he plays - so to keep that going, he’ll need to be relatively close). Yes to stepping into and out of the pantry. Honestly I think I only want that window for aesthetics during the daytime. It’s on my list of things to cut if I need to.

    As for the garage, I was planning on it not looping around the front to cut costs but will consider that thought. Thanks!

    For the kitchen I wanted a window seat built in among the counter space but since we don’t have any windows in the actual kitchen, that was a compromise. I picture it looking something like this. Just a cozy spot that I can see my kids using while I’m cooking. Or an extra space for someone to sit and eat a snack, read a book, etc.


  • anj_p
    2 years ago

    I don't see any issue with the foyer. I would center the light on the door, but I'd also use a single door with sidelights, as the few times I've dealt with double front doors they were a total pain and didn't feel very secure. You'll only use one anyway.

    I agree with the linen closet upstairs - it helps provide a hallway for Bed 4.

    Agree with concerns about all the pocket doors and double doors. Definitely eliminate the one in the powder room and office, making them regular swing doors. I would make the storage door a regular door as well. Actually, quite a few pockets could change to swing doors in your plan.

    A few other things to think about:

    5 seats is a bit tight for a 9' island. If you need 5 seats, consider making your island 10'. you should have space for that.

    Your fridge is in a pretty busy aisle in your kitchen, which means people may be walking by it often (interfering with the cook), and will be walking through your work zone to get drinks/butter/salad dressing that was forgotten when they sit down at the dining room table (also possibly interfering with the cook). Consider switching your media nook & pantry, and putting your fridge where your pantry is now. It seems you're going for the hidden pantry look there, but the double doors would drive me nuts (my single pantry door is always open, and it opens IN, so at least it's not in the way). If you move your pantry door to the hall, you can get your entire work zone to be in the space between the island and wall, and no one will need to walk through it to get anything. Microwave could go in the island by the dining room (opening to the side). If you don't make this change, consider putting your DW on the other side of the sink, so it's not in the work aisle when you're cooking. I still think the pantry & media nook should be switched. Windows in pantries are not necessary (and are actually not good). If you don't want a window in your media room, don't put one in...but I would think a blackout curtain would work for most things media-room esque?

    Your master bath looks pretty big - if clearances allow, consider making closet bigger and scooting the sinks closer to the tub. Pocket door there is meh - if you don't mind having that door open most of the time, it's fine. We don't like the light we get from the master bath in our bedroom (we don't have window treatments on the windows in it) so we close our bathroom door at night. Pocket doors can be noisy to open in the MOTN (and generally should only be used for doors that don't need to be opened/closed all the time).

    Upstairs: any particular reason there are no windows on the left and right walls? You have a wonderful opportunity for lots of windows on 2 walls in all bedrooms, as long as it works with the roof. It seems like you should at least be able to get some higher windows in/clerestory?

    I don't love the J&J - it can only be shared by two same-sex people, which is fine if that's what you intend, but it might be a deal breaker for future buyers (if you care about that sort of thing). Making the toilet and bath a separate space would allow for sharing by opposite sex people (or guests - although J&J baths are awkward for guests). I personally prefer hall baths. I honestly think you have space to make 2 ensuite bathrooms out of that J&J, too - you have 9 x 11.5! Bed 4 is huge, so taking 1' of space from it would give you more than enough room for 2 bathrooms.

    Bed 3: It would be annoying to have to close your bedroom door every time you need to get in the closet. Bed 2: Same issue with bathroom access. Bed 4 has a little overlap there as well.

    I think you could do a little reconfiguring of the upstairs and get some of those kinks worked out, which would give you a better layout.

  • cd7733
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I would think about turning the overly large jack and jill into two separate on-suites. Bed 4 will only loose 2ish feet and still be a great size room but have it's own bath:


  • shead
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I so wish Houzz had more reaction options to comments...SBDRH nailed it in so many ways :)

    I don't think the plan is a horrible plan at all. Ditch as many double doors as you possibly can. I have a few (wide double closets) and I don't particularly like them :/ Small ones are totally unnecessary when a single door can be used.

    I think there's a ton of wasted space in the master bath. I don't care for how the tub and shower are designed. I would not want a doorless shower AT ALL. I would want my tub in front of a pretty picture window. There is SO MUCH floor space in the center of the bathroom that you could tighten up the whole area a lot and have more closet space, which is what I'd prefer.

    Regarding the bath that Bedroom 3 and 4 share, I'd separate the shower and the toilet area from the vanity area so that if one were showering, the other could still brush their teeth. Even better would be to convert it to a hall bath instead of a JnJ. It would take up less space that could be given to the bedrooms. I would give Bedroom 2 its own ensuite and eliminate the door to the hallway.


    **Edited to add that 3'5" might be a little narrow for the hallway servicing BR 3 and BR 4, especially trying to make turns with large pieces of furniture. I also like cd7733's idea ^^^^ about the two bathrooms :)

  • bpath
    2 years ago

    I don’t think Bedroom 2’s bathroom needs a door to the loft. There is a powder room right by the foot of the stairs. If I had Bedroom 2 I wouldn’t want to share the bathroom with my siblings’ friends.

  • cpartist
    2 years ago

    The best houses orient the public rooms towards the south for the best passive solar heating and cooling

    The best houses are L, U, T, H, or I shaped.

    The best houses are only one to two rooms deep. And covered lanai, porches, garages, etc count as rooms in this case.

    The best houses make sure kitchens have natural light, meaning windows so one doesn't have to have lighting 24/7 to use the kitchen. (And no, dining areas with windows 10' or more from the kitchen will not allow for natural light.)

    The best houses make sure all public rooms and bedrooms have windows on at least two walls.

    The best houses do not if possible put mechanical rooms, pantries or closets on outside walls

    The best houses keep public and private spaces separate.

    The best houses do not have you walk through the work zone of the kitchen to bring laundry to the laundry room.

    The best houses do not have the mudroom go through any of the work zones of the kitchen.

    The best houses do not use the kitchen as a hallway to any other rooms.

    The best houses do not put toilets or toilet rooms up against bedroom walls or dining areas.

    The best houses do not have walk in closets too small to stand inside.

    The best houses have an organizing “spine” so it’s easy to determine how to get from room to room in the house and what makes sense.

    So how many of these best practices does your house have?

  • 3onthetree
    2 years ago

    It's been refined well, you are on your way! Reading your OP my thought was WTF your concern with the linen, moot point. Then seeing the drawing that was the 1st thing my eye saw! After looking awhile, the linen is creating privacy for Bed4 from the Loft. If I were to remove it, I would want to slide the Storage wall up to align with the stair, but that causes sliding of the bedrooms and bathrooms up as well.

    Staying on the 2nd:

    - are you fine with the JacknJill being single use at a time, as opposed to toilet and tub separated from vanity so it allows multiple use (surely there are variations with this someone will argue, but that's the simple explanation).

    - not sure about the Bath2 sliding door, if you want to allow Loft use then the public door should be the swing.

    On the 1st:

    - the offset Foyer doesn't bother me with the ceiling fixture in any location you put it.

    - have you thought about french doors in the Living opening to front porch, if the porch is actually going to be a usable function rather than decorative?

    - the Office closet limits your location of furniture (what if you want an 'island' desk?), so I might recess the closet, but that eats into your kitchen desk.

    - have you thought about where to grill the Brontosaurus? Do you want to cross over Living and the whole back porch, or have a separate outdoor kitchen accessed from the Dining room at the right side window?

    - the stair, I would look at cantilevering a shed dormer bumpout to balance the Living dormer and give purpose to the variation of fenestration within the same plane on that elevation.

    - Master Bed - not sure about the little desk room, that is just a closet unless consideration has been given to light+ventilation. Also what I would want to do is bumpout the window wall for a seating area. That's where you would probably want to sit, and with the bath door you can't really move the bed+console down away from the window wall too much. Want a toilet room window too?

    - do you need a safe/storm room? Where is the mechanical equipment going?

    - roof plan: there may be inconsistencies in the translation to elevations - but I may be misreading them at this scale. In GREEN is I think the 2nd floor wall shown, but should it be moved over the natural 1st floor wall, and then how that relates to the garage peak. Also I might look at widening the breezeway roof to cover the trash, which might balance the 3rd car garage in better proportion.



  • Emily
    2 years ago

    I love a nice hanging foyer light, but for your foyer space I would suggest recessed lights for ceiling and then having some beautiful lamps on the foyer table or wall sconces above it. Then there no visible light competing for symmetry between the space or the door.


    I would eliminate the door to the bathroom for Bedroom #2. Having the access into bathroom right behind the door may become annoying. The bathroom would still be easily accessed by the bedroom and also by the loft area.


    I like that the linen closet hides Bedroom #4 from the loft area, but that's just my preference. It would be fine to remove if you wanted a more open space.


    Overall, a nice plan. Hope it all works out well for you.

  • Lindsey_CA
    2 years ago

    One thing that no one has mentioned...

    I like the fact that you have a covered area for the trash/recycle bins. BUT, it is really awkward to get there. To take out the trash you have to go past the master bedroom, through the laundry room, meander through the main garage out to the breezeway, then you get to the bins.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    2 years ago

    I let my trash & recycle bins bask in the sun and get bathed by the rain on the east side of my detached garage. They have not complained once. But it is neat little feature to provide the alcove.

  • Mrs Pete
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    SBDRH, that was a fun post.

    The foyer is offset inside

    I'm not crazy about the foyer -- or the porch -- for several reasons:

    - This is a large house with a lot going on ... and the front door doesn't stand out for guests. Perhaps this problem would disappear once your landscaping is in place.

    - Your guests will be standing in a little narrow space ... while a moderate-sized porch is just to their left. Doesn't seem functional.

    - As for an entry table, you could go with something very, very narrow -- a shelf perhaps -- where guests could leave a purse or keys.

    - As for lighting, how about sconces on the walls? Being very short, I wonder how people manage to change those high light bulbs.

    I‘m also not sold on that linen closet in the upstairs hallway

    I like the linen closet because, as others said, it shields Bedroom 4 from the loft area ... but I do have one concern: Imagine bringing large bedroom furniture around the corner that the linen closet creates. While you're thinking about that, consider the same issue for Bedroom 3.

    lso there are a LOT of double doors. I'd suggest a single swing-in door into the pantry

    Agree that double doors are not so functional.

    Yes, a swing-door would work well in this pantry.

    Additionally, I see several upstairs doors that could be improved:

    - Bedroom 3's door covers the closet door. You can avoid this by moving it "down" so it's even with the edge of the bathroom wall. This will give Bedroom 3 a small "entry hall".

    - Bedroom 2's door also conflicts with the bathroom door. I see that you were trying to place doors conveniently to the stairs, but this bedroom door would be better moved to the other side of the room.

    - The storage closet next to the linen closet has a pocket door. This would be better as a standard hinged door -- even if it conflicts with the bedroom and living room. Pocket doors are perfect for doors that stay open most of the time -- like a mudroom or a pantry -- but this storage room will be closed most of the time.

    - The pocket doors on the bathroom are just a bad idea. The question isn't whether your pocket door will break or not -- it's when the pocket door will break, especially in a heavy-use area like a bathroom.

    - I'm not so opposed to a pocket door between Bedroom 2 and the bathroom ... IF that's a one-person bedroom. If so, that person would almost certainly leave the door open while using the bathroom.


    Pocket doors never seem to lock 100% so a powder room or bathroom that is used by guests is not the right place for one.

    Pocket doors are also harder for older hands, so be kind to Grandma and make the powder room downstairs and the upstairs bathroom standard hinged doors!

    Would you consider swapping the media nook and the pantry?

    I was going to say that same thing. A window in a pantry is a negative; it will shorten your food's lifespan. On the other hand, the window in the media area is a positive ... and if you need dark-dark sometimes, you can achieve that with window treatments.

    Switching them will also mean your pantry is closer to the garage entry, and it means you won't have to thread your way through the kitchen carrying bags.

    so just an automatic light bulb will work fine.

    An automatic light in a pantry (or any closet) is a great thing.

    Otherwise, your guests will have a looooong walk before they can even see the front door.

    I was going to bring that up. In general, I think guest parking /approach to the house doesn't get enough attention, and without a good plan, your entry can be awkward for guests.

    Your master shower will be cold and drafty.

    Agree. The master bath also seems overly large, which doesn't seem comfortable. Two entrances doesn't seem desirable at all; you have some things here that seem to be included for the sake of "flashiness", but flash isn't always functional.

    Overall some spaces seem larger than they need to be

    Yes, all the bedrooms are monster-sized. Closets too. I think you could reduce all these spaces by maybe 20% and still have oversized bedrooms and closets.

    My husband is a gamer - hence the need for a little media space to tuck away all of his Marvel/DC/PS5/anime things (right now he uses a small desk in our bedroom and we talk while he plays - so to keep that going, he’ll need to be relatively close).

    I see your goal, but now I really think this area would be better flip-flopped with the pantry. He'd still be equally close to you in the bedroom, but he'd have natural light when it suits him. This seems like a good place for a barn door.
    Your fridge is in a pretty busy aisle in your kitchen, which means people may be walking by it often (interfering with the cook), and will be walking through your work zone

    I was going to point that out.

    To take out the trash you have to go past the master bedroom, through the laundry room, meander through the main garage out to the breezeway, then you get to the bins

    Yes, taking out the trash is a miserable job, so plan for a path as direct as possible. I also have a stain on my carpet where a trash bag broke as it was being carried out. I'd be really mad about it ... except that it was me who was doing the carrying. Kitchens and pantries are usually placed adjacent to garages for several very good reasons.

    Other thoughts:

    - Flip-flop the washer/dryer and the laundry sink ... this will allow you to have the dryer on an exterior wall /vent it directly to the outside. This will be cheaper to build and more fire-safe (because it'll be easier to clean your dryer vent).

    - Especially since you have to walk through the bathroom to reach it, I would like to see a door between the laundry room and the master closet. This will be a step-saver.

    - Move the refrigerator 1-2' to the left. This will allow you to have a tall, narrow cabinet on the right of the refrigerator ... but the real benefit is that by NOT having the fridge against a wall, you'll be able to open the door completely.

    - For such a large house, you don't have a lot of connection to the back yard. Do you grill? Do you sit out on a patio often? Since the front door is rather far from the master, I'd like to see a door between the master and the back yard ... for fire safety.

  • anj_p
    2 years ago

    To @Mrs Pete's point about the washer/dryer - front load washers open to the left, so you will want your washer on the other side of your dryer if you get front loaders.

  • partim
    2 years ago

    The windowless kitchen would be a no-go for me.

  • Mrs Pete
    2 years ago

    To @Mrs Pete's point about the washer/dryer - front load washers open to
    the left, so you will want your washer on the other side of your dryer
    if you get front loaders.

    If it's on the other side of the laundry room, the dryer can't vent directly to the outside.

    Washer/dryer doors can be reversed -- it takes little effort.

  • anj_p
    2 years ago

    @Mrs Pete front load washer doors can't be reversed.

  • Matt E.
    2 years ago

    Two thoughts:


    1. The dining area seems a little small and cramped for a house of this size. I’d consider trying to make it bigger by at least a couple feet.


    2. What area of the country are you in, and do you need a coat closet by the front door? Or if you mostly plan to enter through the mud room, do you have enough storage space for coats/shoes/etc in there?

  • Therese N
    2 years ago

    Good lord, that’s a lot of wrong. I’d start over. However, regarding the foyer... many Tudor styles have covered entrances like that, but not all. I personally would reclaim that space for the interior by pulling the door out to the facade and hiking an awning over the door. Great opportunity for a beautiful swooped copper one! Though you can achieve that more modestly too.

  • cpartist
    2 years ago

    Why does the pantry get a window but the kitchen doesn't?

  • suezbell
    2 years ago

    In the entry foyer:

    Would choose a single wide door with the hinge on the opposite side from the table placement and have a sidelight on the table side that is the same solid wood as the door up to table height height with windows above table height. If possible, also have windows over the door and side light.

    Would center the overhead light in the foyer and NOT try to make it the focal point of the small foyer -- choose an overhead light that doesn't scream for attention.

    Dining room/pantry:

    You are seriously crowding your dining table. Would modify/eliminate the pantry and extend the bumped out window wall all the way across the area of both the dining and pantry/kitchen space to the bedroom wall and have the kitchen cabinets wrap around the corner to what is now the side and back wall of the pantry and continue all the way to the outside wall -- build a wall of cabinets in the enlarged dining room that could be used as pantry but have a finished kitchen/dining room look. Then use sliding glass doors for that window wall so that your kitchen/dining combination has a doorway directly to the outside at the back of the house.

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/458030224584893599/?d=t&mt=login

    NOT a huge fan of the outdoor closets sticking into the house -- would enlarge that adjoining closet area and make two larger closets or one closet and a second closet/dressing room combination.

    Would want the front two-car garage ("garage 1") accessible from the right side, using the same driveway as the side car shelter ... pave less of the front yard.

    You could enclose "garage 2" on the side of the house and make "garage 1' in front of the house a drive through shelter open car shelter. Check out #3 -- the three car carport to see what I mean:

    https://morningchores.com/carport-plans/

    You might consider making that second (side) garage an open car shelter that could be used as an outdoor entertainment shelter and build a pair of side by side storage closets/rooms on the back of that -- one for a potting shed and yard tools and the other for garbage cans.

  • ILoveRed
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    wish I had time to spend reading and evaluating this whole thread and all of the responses but right now I don’t. Overall, at the risk of being labeled an architectural idiot..just a quick glance..I think it’s an attractive home with lots of potential. most everyone will find their pet peeve and run with it. And they usually do.

    my only note here is to say that I have a fabulous, spa-like doorless shower that may be one of the best things in my house. its never drafty or cold...not sure why.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    2 years ago

    Along the line of CP's question, why does the garage get six large windows and the loft get one small window?

  • chicagoans
    2 years ago

    (not a pro) Didn't read all the comments so this might duplicate others... For all the places where you have double doors, think about where you'll put a light switch so that when you enter you can easily turn on the light (without closing the door to get to the switch.)

    I like a mudroom with a door to the outside, so kids coming in from playing, adults coming in from yard work, and pets can go right outside and back in via the mudroom. Off the garage is ok too but better if you have a man door somewhere in the garage (so you don't have to open the big garage door every time.)

    Make sure you have a good plan for venting the dryer (would be better on an exterior wall) and the cooktop.

  • angies66
    2 years ago

    @SBDRH omg, that was so funny because it’s soooo true.