Looking for a Japanese maple that would be ok to plant near a fence

3 years ago

last modified: 3 years ago

I am looking for the big tree that you see in the middle of the below picture

It is meant to be a focal point and to offer some privacy for the patio that is to the left of the house

On the left side of the property from top to bottom there is a magnolia tree followed by lilac trees

On the edging corners I have two Shaina Japanese maples (top side) and two dwarf Japanese barberry.

On the top side in line with the big tree I am looking for there are tall ornamental grasses for now (to hide a hideous fence that is overdue for replacement but my top side neighbor has been delaying for years

South of the lawn opposing the big thee is a dwarf lilac tree

To the right and to the left of that there is a rock garden between the edging and the walkway

To the right edge of the lawn there is a vegetable garden and three Potentilla bushes

Right now I am set for an Emperor Japanese Maple (because it is hardier than BloodGood and because it grows faster)

The problem is that it might need too much room around it and it won't develop properly if planted too close to the fence. Are my worries baseless or I should look for a species that can develop tall trunk for the first 4-5' to clear the fence and then develop the canopy above that line. The fence is 4' (regular) fence

I live in Toronto Canada

Is there a Japanese Maple species that would fit my needs?

If not what other tree would fit my needs ?

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Comments (8)

Embothrium
3 years ago
What's it going to be hanging over the fence onto?
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Ivan Turbinca
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
the neighbor has nothing there for the entire length of the fence but he does have a vegetables raised bed at the base of the fence. My backyard has southern exposure

Here is the satellite view The red dot is the position of the tree

The Google view is 4y old or more
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That maple doesn't look healthy to me. Please post a photo on the Trees forum for more opinions. How tall do you want the screening shrubs to grow? I wouldn't choose a shrub that needs much pruning or shearing to stay the desired height because you're going to have quite a few shrubs there. Also, I'd plan a mixed planting with three or four different types.
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Thanks everyone! (Except SPAM guy) These thoughtful responses and observations are encouraging and very helpful. I'm going to splurge on a dwarf Japanese maple that has already grown to 4' tall (a 24-incher would be A LOT cheaper)so I needed to do my homework. The tree will be about 6' from my roses. I'm aiming for an upright growing dwarf maple, and I will watch for the horizontal spread that comes with age.
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If this is to be the permanent home for the Osakazuki, I might reconsider that siting. Osakazuki gets to be a big JM - one of the largest growing cultvars - and is really more of a specimen tree than something that could well be overshadowed by a much larger growing nearby red maple. I'd be inclined to give it a space all of its own so it can really shine. Maybe somewhere with a more evergreen backdrop so the gorgeous fall coloring Osakazuki produces will be really be highlighted.
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trees are basically full sun ... but.. as along as they get some sun ... most will live ... perhaps they wont be as vigorous as you like.. but they arent going to die.. from reduced sun .. and keep in mind.. there are other variables planting near huge old trees .. like water competition.. etc ... you might want to think about when the ash will have to be removed ... and plan on what you plant.. being replacements ... in tree time.. this would be planning ahead ... you confuse me a bit ... you talk of JMaples .. and then talk about red maples ... to my ear.. and im too lazy to spend time edumacating myself this morning .... you are talking about 2 wildly divergent trees .. to my mind.. warped as it is.. one is a small ornamental foo foo tree {the JM].. and the other is a largish maple [red maples.]... you will get much further along with your analysis if you start using the latin names ... to insure you and everyone else are talking about the same thing .. not only here.. but if you move into discussing such in the trade ... now go plant some trees... link to a good primer below ... ken note proper timing.. and proper watering: https://sites.google.com/site/tnarboretum/Home/planting-a-tree-or-shrub
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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
3 years ago
I think you need to look at something smaller :-) I have no firsthand knowledge about growing any JM's in your zone, but Emp 1 will get much bigger than most sites states....easily the same size as Bloodgood (one of the largest growing JM's) so closer to 25-30' rather than the 12-15' usually stated. It will shade your neighbor's plantings if planted that close.

btw, it is not any hardier than Bloodgood, it just leafs out about 2 weeks later so less prone to late spring frost damage.
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
3 years ago
is it possible to give us a pic of the yard .. instead of just the drawing???

what is your plan for the grass.. kids.. bocci ... that is probably where you should be planting the tree ...

the base problem is that you are wanting to plant a 20 to 40 foot tree in a 3.5 foot bed at the fence ... why ...???

and do understand.. tree basically never stop growing .. at some magical height ... they have an established annual growth rate.. and they will grow at that rate until you die ... or it dies ... so.. plan ahead ...

get out of the box you are stuck in.. and make a new tree plan ...

there are certain tree planting times.. if you cant get it planted in the next couple weeks.. plan on planting in fall .. see section one at the link below ... and then study the rest ...

in the meantime.. you can plant the rest of the garden ... its not really imperative to do it all this spring ... no matter what significant other says.. lol ..

ken

https://sites.google.com/site/tnarboretum/Home/planting-a-tree-or-shrub
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Ivan Turbinca
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
@ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5 I think you got it wrong the tree can be at far as around 42-48" inch away of the fence and have double of that as the radius of the circle around the base of its trunk at the bottom.

@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) I have never seen a JM in Toronto that is that big (20-30') and nowhere else.

I am open to suggestions if you have other tree options to suggest.
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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
"and do understand.. tree basically never stop growing .. at some magical height ... they have an established annual growth rate.. and they will grow at that rate until you die ... or it dies ... so.. plan ahead ..."

This is something that needs to be clarified frequently :-) Trees do not grow at the same rate all of their lifespan! Often they will grow rapidly when young, slowing as they become more mature. And sometimes, depending on species, it is the other way around. They also have a genetically programmed size in their DNA and the closer they come to that size, the slower the growth rate will be....sometimes slowing down to a mere fraction of an inch with some very tall, older trees.

Climate and growing conditions will also factor in rate of growth.

Because you may not have seen any doesn't mean they don't exist :-) LandscapeOntario lists Bloodgood, Emp 1 and Osakazuki as attaining a height of 6 or more meters, so that's at least 20 feet.
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Ivan Turbinca
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I can go for a smaller size but have a look at this guy planted closer to the building, It is a bloodgood in a famous place in Toronto

Toronto, Ontario - Google Maps

Also seen here

https://torontobotanicalgarden.ca/uncategorized/supportthegardensin2020/

I know of this tree for quite a while, I have not seen significant changes in size for like the last 4-5 years

I don't think it has more space than my tree would have, I would rather say less..
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Embothrium
3 years ago
sometimes slowing down to a mere fraction of an inch with some very tall, older trees

I personally know of no specific examples of this phenomenon. I do know of a 379 ft. coast redwood that stays within an average of this height by dying back periodically when sufficiently affected by a lack of ability to keep its uppermost top supplied by water every year. To then shoot back up in between dying back episodes, at a rate considerably more than "a mere fraction of an inch".
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Looking for a Japanese maple that would be ok to plant near a fence

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Embothrium

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Looking for a Japanese maple that would be ok to plant near a fence

Comments (8)

Embothrium

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