Total rose newbie in zone 5b- are dead canes normal in spring?

3 years ago

I bought a new home from a master gardener in summer 2019. There are two Seven Sisters rambling rose bushes that climb trellises, and another that I actually don't know the variety but it's a small, deep red, very spicy fragranced rose. I don't remember what they did during our first spring in the house, but I do know they gave us beautiful blooms in the summer. Last fall, I did some searching in this forum about pruning, because the Seven Sisters in particular had gotten a bit out of hand in their rambling and were sprawling into other perennial beds and poking me while trying to get out to cut and weed. So, last November (after the first frost), I went and did some pretty aggressive pruning of the Seven Sisters to get them a bit more contained to their trellises. Now, this spring in zone 5b-- I am going to check their spring progress and seeing only brown and dead canes. As I said, I don't remember if they would have been brown in spring 2020 with no pruning...... did I kill the roses? Or will they bounce back, perhaps a bit later in the spring? Do I look for new growth at the base? As a point of comparison, the smaller dark red rose bush I have did NOT get any pruning, and it is also showing nearly all brown canes. One of the canes is still green, but that's it. That one did not get pruned. Thanks for any guidance! BTW, I am in southwestern Wisconsin (USA), and we did not have a particularly harsh winter for what that's worth.

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Nippstress Nebraska z5

3 years ago

The short answer to your original question is a resounding "Yep"!! All that I would add to Seil's excellent advice is to expect to prune out canes that are clearly dead in any given year, and to rejoice when you see live cane. If a rose is truly hardy for your zone you wouldn't need to prune back much at all, but even roses that are hardy at the root level like Knockouts need regular pruning out of dead cane in the spring. It's just a regular chore, but be sure to do it in the spring.

Cynthia

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Comments (9)

joeywyomingzone4
3 years ago
Wait a while before pruning, you may be surprised at what comes out. Some of my red roses actually have dark red-brown canes, but they are perfectly healthy and will be leafing out here in a short while. If you look at the growth buds along the cane, you may be able to see some starting to swell where the rose will begin to leaf out.

A master gardener once told me not to prune until the last danger of frost, because if you prune too early in a very cold area and then get another frost, you can end up losing more cane than if you just leave it all intact until there is no chance of freezing.
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
3 years ago
Maybe I'm being extra, but when I move out of this house one day when my kids are grown, I'm going to leave behind a sheet of detailed instructions on how to care for each plant 😅

Have you read this thread? You may find it helpful.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3772241/is-this-cane-dead-a-visual-guide-for-cold-zone-spring-pruning#n=53
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Glad now that I brought this subject up...sounds like you have interesting views and questions as well. Veilchen-what you're saying about the shorter the canes, the more damage possibility...good point. That is what I was wondering about. Harry-interesting idea about increased hardiness over the years...sounds plausible Digger-had never thought of that (insects on larger bushes). I just know I would love to start with a little bigger plants in April than I usually do. Donna-I forgot, where in NYS are you!? All I know is that it was kinda nice not to spend time I didn't have anyway last fall, cutting down and carrying away all that extra growth...if I knew I'd be doing it all in April anyway. We haven't had that many ice storms (big one about 8 years ago), but yesterday the ice was AWFUL. I FELL down HARD coming out of my house...very thankful I didn't break my wrist as it slammed backwards in Abe Darby's rose bed!! And to think, I was on my way to the doctor's office anyway. LOL :0) Phyl
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bananastand
Original Author
3 years ago
@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) I would have LOVED a set of detailed instructions on all of my perennials!! Thanks for that thread, I'll check it out. And good to know I may just need to wait a while for growth.
seil zone 6b MI
3 years ago
In your zone winter cane die back is normal for most roses but I doubt your roses are completely dead, A lot of old garden roses have brown or gray and woody looking canes but that doesn't mean the cane is dead. Unfortunately your November pruning was the exact wrong time of year to prune Seven Sisters. She is a once blooming rose and only blooms on old canes. At least one year old wood. So by pruning her in the fall you probably took off a lot of her one year old canes and that will greatly reduce your bloom for this year. Once blooming roses should only be pruned immediately after they finish their bloom in the spring or early summer.

The color of the outside of the canes is not an accurate way of telling if a cane is alive or not. You need to look at the inside of the cane. Find an end and snip off a small piece and look at the center of the cane. If it is brown/tan and dried up it is dead. Go down another few inches and clip again and look. Do this gradually down the cane until you find a center that looks white/greenish and moist. from there on down the cane should be alive. Do this with each cane. After a bit you'll get a better feel for what might be dead and what is still alive.

Your red rose sounds like a modern rose and die back is even more common. Use the same method of pruning to find what is good, live cane and what is not. On these types of roses it is a good idea to make your last cut at a 45 degree angle about a quarter inch above an outward facing growth node. Take off all the dead wood first and see what you have left before you decide to do more pruning.

In your cold zone I caution you to wait a bit longer before doing any pruning. It is still too early. I am in zone 6b and I am just going to start pruning mine this week. A rule of thumb is to wait until the forsythia bushes are blooming. That's usually when the roses begin to show new leaf growth as well and you can see where new leaves will be coming from to make your cuts easier to find.
bananastand
Original Author
3 years ago
@seil zone 6b MI, thank you for this VERY helpful guidance! The forsythias here are actually already dropping their flowers, so we're pretty far along. I am glad to have more info on the Seven Sisters rose, also-- I had a lot of trouble locating good info on them in my searches last year. Sounds like I may have one year of fewer or no blooms as my price to pay, but I do think they survived based on some of the guidance I've already read in this thread-- there is a lot of green cane at the base of both bushes. Always learning!
bananastand
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Here is a photo of the miniature red rose from last summer. If anyone has ID suggestions, that would be helpful!
0
Henry Kuska
3 years ago
See:

https://www.brainerddispatch.com/lifestyle/home-and-garden/6975450-Ask-the-Master-Gardener-Reinvigorating-your-roses
seil zone 6b MI
3 years ago
If you want more info on your Seven Sisters go here.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php?searchNmTyp=5&searchNm=seven+sisters&rid=3954&sbSearch=SEARCH&tab=1

There are a few different ones listed so you'll have to look at the pictures and decide which you have.

I think your red rose may be a Knock Out. They're pretty much bullet proof. You can prune them any way you wish and they should be fine. Here's a link for that one,

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.24139
bananastand thanked seil zone 6b MI

Total rose newbie in zone 5b- are dead canes normal in spring?

Nippstress Nebraska z5

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joeywyomingzone4

Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)

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Total rose newbie in zone 5b- are dead canes normal in spring?

Nippstress Nebraska z5

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joeywyomingzone4

Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)

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