I would put the microwave on a shelf built into your cabinets, with a wall oven, and get the countertop Breville toaster oven. I've found that we rarely use our two large ovens, and almost everything for everyday cooking can be done in the smaller countertop oven. Ours in back in a corner so it really doesn't take up much countertop space, and is the only thing on the countertops other than the coffee maker.

Casual Elegance · More Info

julieste, here's an example of the push/pull tool for oven racks I wrote about up thread.

push & pull tool

They might make it easier to get a heavy pot out of the low oven.

awm03, I'm thrilled you found the GE Twin-Flex wall oven. I didn't know they existed until I saw the real estate listing between 5 and 8 years ago for the house next door to where I grew up. It had a remodeled kitchen, but they placed the cooktop in the exact same spot. And then I looked and saw there was a wall oven underneath the cooktop. I did a double take when I realized there were two oven doors. And I could make out the GE logo and I found it online. I was blown away. It's a perfect solution for anyone remodeling a kitchen and still only wanting the space for essentially a single wall oven yet you end p with two oven cavities. I'm glad it's still being marketed. I think I've only seen one other in a real estate listing.

Thank you, boba1! I admit to being excited :) I think I've thought through all the shortcomings, but can adapt to them. My appliance store called today and said it would be in on April 15th. We ordered it on March 28th! I didn't think it would be here until late summer.

So, back to julieste's kitchen dilemma...

@boba1 when we bought our house in 1987 there was an avocado green stove similar to your picture. Cannot remember the brand. It was gas. I think it was put in about 10 years prior in a kitchen renovation or maybe it was original to the 1968 build. I loved it. Had a baby and didn't have to worry about her opening oven door. About 10 years later needed to replace it and couldn't get another.

julieste, you asked: Is there a particular reason you switched from the double oven KA to the Cafe?
We have lived in three houses since 2010. Bought three ranges, the KA for the first, BlueStar for the second and Cafe for our current home. My husband is our primary cook. He won't cook on a crappy cook top (that includes anything electric, in his opinion).

I have lived with a few of these options. Twenty years ago we had a Sharp convection microwave that was the bomb. It cooked like a regular oven and as I recall preheated quickly.

Sad day when it died and we replaced it with a Kenmore Elite. Convection micros were hard to find. These one was awful. Took for ever to preheat and it took twice as long to cook something compared to the oven. Happy day when it died.

We replaced our Jenn AIr range with a Samsung that has the tray to divide the oven into two ovens--small on top, larger on the bottom. I do not believe this model is made anymore.

The concept of the two ovens is good but there are flaws. The top oven is really only useful for cooking things on a baking sheet. Because of the heating element , a casserole dish doesn't even fit without the top of the dish being too close to the top. I would really look at the height of the top oven.

I am 6 ft tall and was having problems the other day putting a Le Creuset dutch oven into the bottom section. Ours is no lower than a traditional oven is. I was adding wall ovens to the wish list in my next home.

One of my DD + DSIL had one of the two ovens ranges that you are looking at. They like the ease of the top oven but weren't cooking much at that phase of their lives. They did miss the storage in the broiler drawer that the two oven stoves do not have.

Hope something I said helps!

I am a single person household and I used my oven at Chirstmas when I baked pastries as my gift to the family and again on Valentines Day to make Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Brownies for my neighbors who have helped me with snow blowing and outdoor tasks through the winter.

One of my friends got one of the Nuwave air fryers on TV 3 years ago. It was a buy one get one free and they gave the 2nd one to me as a gift. I thought this was a toy, but have found that I use it daily and it never gets put away.

I have not tried anything big like a turkey or a ham, but I make steaks and chicken wings, chicken parts, a turkey breast, hamburgers, hot dogs, "grilled" vegetables, warm pizza, baked crescent rolls or half a dozen cookies. When you are done you throw the bottom plate and the rack in the dishwasher, wipe the inside of the top out and you are done.

Never thought in a million years that some "As Seen On TV" cooking appliance would become the most used item in my kitchen, but it has.

It has virtually replaced my oven and microwave. Rewarms things better than the microwave and cooks meats better than my oven. Three of my siblings have bought air fryers after eating chicken at my house. It is the best chicken I have ever eaten anywhere - crispy skin all the way around and moist and tender inside.

It is also counter height, which is so convenient.

The only issue I have is the counter space it takes. You need open space for the cooker and you have to remove the dome and place it on the counter next to it.

Will be renovating my kitchen in the next year or two and will be getting some type of air fryer station. I will keep my single oven under the stove, but can't see me going back to using it like I did in the past.

BTW - this is 100 times better than the basket type air fryers. Had one of those and never used it, both of my sisters had them and got rid of them. The wide grill gives you the space needed to spread food out.

@Jennifer Hogan, can you share the recipe for the Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Brownies? Just the name sounds amazingly tasty!

awm03--Thanks for the reference to the GE Twin Flex. I had no idea there was an option like this, and I am now looking into the idea of whether or not I can do a wall oven with a microwave in the same stack. That would also solve my problem of where to put the microwave.

Jennifer Hogan--That NuWave air fryer is something else I have never heard of; it sounds very flexible and fnctional.

Re Air Fryer. I have a couple of “go wise“, different sizes, different places.

For 1-3 people, I recommend a table top air fryer.

The go wise was recommended by one the cooking magazines I subscribe to. It was rated #2, but was half the price of #1.

I have a Samsung double oven that has one door but has a divider that can be adjusted up or down or pulled out when necessary. I love it, but I don't use it as much as I use my countertop Air Fryers.

I use this Farbberware Air Fryer/ Toaster Oven multiple times a day. Large enough for a frozen pizza and done in 6 minutes.

For my turkey this year I used my Halogen Air Fryer. There is almost no limit to what I can fit inside this countertop oven and it can cook frozen items and do it in half the time.

@BeverlyFLADeziner, do you know the model name or # of your Samsung oven? Thank you!

Glad you found it helpful, julieste. We currently have an oven/mw combo. The microwave died 15 years ago, but the convection oven has been wonderful (KitchenAid). We bought countertop microwaves over the years, but in our new configuration, we'll have a shelf & electrical outlet installed above the new Twin Flex oven. We'll put a countertop microwave there & get a trim kit so it will look like a built in.

I didn't go for a range and went with a wall oven and induction cooktop during the 2017 kitchen remodel. No bending, cooler kitchen, more versatile. It's been a great choice.

Kitchen · More Info

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For anyone following this discussion, here is another thread where people comment about ranges in general (not jus double oven ranges) and conclude that for aging a wall oven is the best choice.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3538704/wolf-range-vs-range-top-and-wall-ovens

I had a potential contractor out yesterday, and he thought I could probably do the wall oven with the separate induction cooktop. This, of course, means more money--splitting a circuit to accommodate 2 appliances, purchasing 2 separate appliances etc. So, we'll see, but for now it is the direction I am thinking about.

julieste -- It does cost a bit more, but there are advantages. You get to choose the best of each (usually multi-taskers don't do everything as well as the best stand-alones). If one should need repairs, you can still cook.

Julieste- if you have not already done so, please check out thread about GE Cafe back ordered appliances. My sister and I fall into the ‘older’ category and after much deliberation decided on the Cafe White Matte Induction Double Oven. We currently have two wall ovens and rarely use the second one. We don’t cook often and she seldom lay bakes which influenced our decision. We also gained storage and cabinet space where the double ovens currently live, essential in our small kitchen. We ordered our appliances in January 2021 and understand delivery will be at the end of this month ( there are no guarantees). Many ordered a year ago and are still waiting. Fortunately, we did not have to pre pay or even provide a deposit with our small business appliance store. Many who are still waiting shelled out thousands of dollars. My tip to you is to do business with one of your small appliance stores vs big box if you can find one requiring no, or a small deposit.

Yes, I am very aware of the wait for the Cafe. Fortunately for us we are able to wait for 6 months if that is what it takes. But,, I also know that I need to make some decisions pretty soon in case I end up with the Cafe.

Good luck with your project!

Well, I just baked a batch of cookies in my soon-to-be-replaced standard 30" range. I paid particular attention to how it felt to bend over and take the cookie sheets in and out of a hot oven. I think if I can feasibly do it, I will be tying the GE flex that is two ovens in the space of one standard 30" wall oven.

Thanks for all of the comments people have made.

julieste, I have a Maytag Gemini cooktop with the dbl ovens that was purchased in 2004. There are several threads that talk about these dbl ovens. Mine have always run hot, so it is easy to burn foods in the top oven & food can be hard to remove because the height is limited & as mentioned by others, the element is so close to the rack.

I don't think the lower oven has ever held the temp consistently, so you cannot bake in it --- heat up a casserole or a frozen pie, but not bake bread or cookies. I've had several repair people look at it, but never got an answer.

The rack is in the middle of the lower oven so I've never had trouble removing food. Cleaning the bottom is tough though. It is self-cleaning, but high heat can damage the motherboard. (Perhaps that is what happened.) My oven looks just like GE dbl ovens.

We have used the top oven 99% of the time. Recently out children gave us a Black & Decker toaster oven they weren't using. Now we use it almost all the time. You will have to let us know how you like the GE if you purchase it. We want to buy the induction, but like you we can't decide what to do.

Boba1, I redid a 1940's kitchen in a home I purchased in 1992. I think it only had 3 cabinets in it--a stretch to call it a kitchen! It had the stove you pictured with the 2nd oven above the cooktop. I loved it so much that I canceled the stove that we ordered (and lost my deposit on it). I used that top oven all the time, and I could bake anything in it.

My other favorite stove was in a 1930's home. I think it was 42 inches wide with 2 ovens side by side. The left oven was smaller. The stove had electric coil burners & a great big space to sit pans coming out of the oven. It also had a big storage drawer underneath. I loved that stove! I've seen a few in Houzz pics that people have redone. I'm an old house fan as you can probably tell.

S Carr, thank you for sharing your history. I know 42" wide ranges were quite common in many kitchens probably from the 1930, if not earlier. Only the high end models had double ovens. Otherwise the narrow oven cavity was used for storage as storage was very little in older kitchens. Every manufacturer offered these. These fell out of popularity as kitchens got smaller as the 1950s progressed into the 1960s and the 30" range became standard. Frigidaire was the last to produce this style. The Hi-Lo type of double oven ranges came out in the 1960s and were around through the 1980s. As for the current style of double ovens, your Gemini came up short in the upper oven because electric ranges did not put their baking elements under the oven floor in what's referred to as hidden bake elements. this was brought out for a brief time in the late 1940s and up to mid 1950s, but had serious problems with porcelain deteriorating on the oven floor. Not having the upper oven's bake element hidden was a major fault with the Geminis. GE didn't bring this style out until they offered hidden bake elements.

@julieste just curious if you decided ? we are finalizing appliances as well. we are also finalizing flooring, did u go with Karndean flooring (if yes any thoughts so far) or something else ? there aren't too many installed Karndean LVP however so many installed photos on IG FB from UK Australia Canada :) A well respected quality that is newer to N.America

I'm a little leary of both LG and Samsung appliances due the lack of qualified service techs. However, I saw the Samsung double oven range (in stock at Costco), and the design was impressive.

I too was quite taken with the Samsung design in many ways. But, our local appliance store won't carry Samsung because of the difficulties of getting repairs. Apparently there can be an unbelievably long wait for parts.

julieste -- I don't purchase LG or Samsung anymore due to poor service experience and short appliance life.

I had a KitchenAide double oven for 6 years. We had repeated problems with all of our KitchenAide appliances and replaced them with Samsung. I loved the KA double oven. There are only 2 of us....over 70.....we have lots of company in the summer and do most of our cooking on the grill outdoors. I found the small oven very convenient...quick to get to temperature....easy to reach.....and did the great majority of cooking in it. On the rare occasions I needed the large lower oven I will say it was WAY down on the floor, but I could manage and it wasn’t used often. I replaced it with the Samsung flex oven with the removable divider. I’ve only used it a couple of times as the small oven is almost always enough. I am a fan of the double ovens!

Merry Jorgeson I had nothing but trouble with KitchenAide.......I think there is a general lack of quality control in them all

That should be Jerry Jorgenson

Melanie Radkiewicz

Good to hear your perspectives on having the range with the double oven. Sounds like you think the concept is good but not in the KA version. Your demographic sounds similar to ours, so it's good to hear how a double oven worked out for you.

Melanie Radkiewicz -- From the comments in the Ankarsrum Facebook group, Kitchen Aid is not what it was thirty years ago. (If you don't know, Ankarsrum is a mixer). No personal experience with Kitchen Aid though.

Smart to think ahead I have early onset arthritis and Im 6ft tall Even though Im only 40, I cant use my Bosch range oven‘s lower racks

the regular oven door when open is already low enough to hurt

I do have my micro in my pantry at a level where no bending or reaching is required. its perfect

Im considering eventually replacing my bosch range with a double oven range so I can use the upper oven mostly OR possibly giving up counter space for wall ovens

i had one of the Matag Gemini double oven ranges about 15 years or so ago I used the upper oven a lot I dont recall having any issues with the Gemini

btw - I have a similar issue with regular dishwashers

Appliances need features like push to open AND tap to close (or some other way).

never thought Id be saying this at age 40 😢

julieste, in case you are still looking/deciding, I, too, am in that upper age bracket and also have a kitchen 13 x 9 ft. Has a horrible layout from some previous owner; I am currently in the process of tearing out and replacing. BUT the bottom line is that since I am just cooking for myself and occasional guest(s) I really don't need a range. I have an induction cooktop, a microwave, and the largest Breville oven.

If I happened to be cooking for multiple folks on a regular (no necessarily every day) schedule, I would get an induction range with a decent size oven and supplement that with the Breville.

I still haven't bought a range but need to make a decision very soon. I am more and more thinking about just giving up on the double oven concept and just ordering a regular single door range. Then, if I discover I really need two ovens I can also buy a Breville.

awm03, how do you like your GE Twinflex? I'm seriously considering one. I'd really like to know how quickly the ovens preheat and if they bake evenly.

This has been a really useful discussion and I' m glad I found it. I have been going back and forth about getting the double oven Cafe or the single oven with the warming drawer. Cafe induction is a given. We have the single oven on order. Unfortunately there wasn't a clear winner, siiiiigh.

While our kitchen is a decent size, taking up counter space for wall ovens is a no-go for me. I way prefer counter space.

OP? what did you finally decide.

jjmekai, I'm really glad I got it. I have the benefits of a double oven without sacrificing precious cabinet storage. The features work well, provide great cooking flexibility & convenience, & after 2 years I've yet to feel limited by the smaller oven sizes. The ovens bake beautifully on both convection & thermal, really the nicest baking oven I've owned (I've had 6 different brands). Preheat times aren't super quick, but still are faster than my old 5 cu. ft. single oven with a hidden element (a KitchenAid). To preheat to 350 F, the upper oven takes 10 minutes, the lower about 17 minutes. To preheat to 400 F takes longer. When I get back from vacation, I'll test that for you.

@awm03, thank you. This is super helpful.

I'm the OP. I ended up getting a Fisher Paykal single oven induction range with the warming drawer (have never once used the drawer). Many people are concerned about the FP becasue the oven size is smaller, but I have been absolutely fine with it. However, what I did get and have had a lot of use from is an Advantium microwave. The Advantium doubles as an extra oven in a smaller size; I use it a lot when I don't want to heat up the regular oven.

Thanks for responding. We looked at the FP but were concerned by the oven size. And like you I have never in 40 years ever wished for a warming drawer. Maybe we'll look at it again.

I sometimes wonder why so many people want double ovens. Is it necessity or extravagance? My mom had double ovens and a 6 burner stove and 2 microwave ovens, but she was the matriarch of a large Pennsylvania Dutch family. She had 6 children and at when she was the age that I am today (61) I was 19 and still living at home. The oldest 4 kids were married, the two oldest each had 2 kids. My mom watched the younger two grandchildren during the day, picked up the older two from school and made dinner for the family (6 kids, 4 sil/dil, 4 grandchildren, herself and my dad). Some nights we had extra guests, Aunts, cousins, friends. A typical meal served anywhere from 16-25 people and this was 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. She baked her own bread, canned fruits and vegetables in the summer, made homemade jams and jellies, pickles, sauerkraut, pies, cakes, cookies, pastries all from scratch.

People don't cook this way anymore. Most of my friends are making dinner for 2 to 6 people daily. I still work every day and cook bigger meals on the weekends that can be reheated during the week. Most days I am simply warming leftovers or making something pretty simple that doesn't take too much effort, doesn't take too long to prepare and doesn't cause a big mess.

My typical daily dinners are feeding 1-2 people.

My middle sister is our new matriarch and hosts most of the bigger gatherings. She makes dinner for the family 3 or 4 times a year with gatherings up to 40 people, but we all bring something with us so although she will use 2 ovens to make 2 turkeys or 2 hams, it is only on those rare occasions that she needs both ovens and we could probably have two people in charge of cooking the main course if she only had one oven.

I am renovating my kitchen and considering a 20" or 24" range because I will get a few extra inches of counter and storage space and I use my small appliances probably more often than my oven (pressure cooker, slow cooker, air fryer, sous-vide). My air fryer lives on my counter - I use it almost every day. I love that I can cook a steak in the sous-vide and know that it will be perfectly cooked if I have dinner when planned or get delayed by an hour. Can't do that with an oven. Made a spiral cut ham with a thickened Monticello cherry glaze in my large sous-vide over the holidays and it was amazingly perfect. The glaze flavoring permeated the meat and the meat was moist and flavorful. Not sure I will ever use an oven again for to make ham.

Made a prime rib in the Sous-vide as well - again - cooked to perfection. Seared the outside under the broiler for just a couple of minutes after cooking, so I did technically use the oven as well, but I need more room for my other toys more than I need two ovens.

There are many variables that determine one's cooking organization, some being needs, some being desires, and some simply are time, space, and money. Also, you adapt to the tools you have at your disposal. Plenty of people are stovetop type cooks because they only have one oven. They save oven usage for specific things like baking, roasting for the big events, or the occasional casserole. That's how I cooked for years, cranking out fast chow for three growing boys & a husband. Then I got a modern oven with timers: delay start, time bake. That was so useful during the crazy busy years, so I shifted towards more oven cooking.

Now the boys are grown, plus I have a daughter-in-law who likes to cook. I wanted a double oven so she can have an oven available for her own use during family get-togethers. Definitely an extravagance, definitely worth every penny! And now that I have 2 ovens to play with, I've changed my own cooking habits: sometimes experimental, but sometimes easy, carefree sheetpan meals, roasted veggies. I like the oven air fry mode, still use the timers, like the built in aspect so I don't clutter the counters with single use gadgets. My only regret is that I didn't get one back in the family raising days.

I'm actually wondering if two ovens will be enough. Frequently, foods being cooked will require different temperatures. And, we have a lot of allergies in our family, often necessitating separate meals being cooked for a family member with allergies.

I have a Kitchenaid range with 2 ovens - I've had it for 6 years. ZERO issues. LOVE it so much. Family of 4 and I use both ovens all the time.

"Ventless" hoods are pretty useless expect they pass code.

Most people will use the small oven most of the time.

Air fryers (countertop ovens) are taking over the market. Remember only one per counter circuit.

I have a GE Cafe w/ two ovens and love it. My sister lives with me, has back issues but also loves it. Obviously we don’t put anything heavy in bottom oven. Lots of sheet pan meals and roasted veggies in bottom one.

@ Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor - Thank you! I am planning on renovating and I use a lot of small appliances. I had not thought about splitting the load. Have blown the circuit a few times, usually only if I am using the deep fryer at the same time as other small appliances - guessing it is the culprit, but you gave me something to think about and research.