Kevin Benoit Zone 4b
I transplanted my lemon tree that was growing the soiless mix into a larger pot with mostly sand and pasty orange clay but I think I might have over done the sand because when I water it makes sinkhole
HOWARD

Lemon trees do better in sand than pure clay.

Steve

I got one tree I I transplanted to a green hanging pot with 99% sand and 1% pasty orange clay and some times it looks a bit crusty but it drains slowly but steady rate and it larger and deeper than it was growing in

HOWARD

it will be interesting to see how the one in sand performs

Kevin Benoit -zone 4b
I guess we will see but it there is some orange pasty clay in the sand as well
HOWARD

Howard. Clay is probably best for you. But if you want robust and vigorous growth , clay is certainly not going to do it as you can tell.
I’m certainly not discouraging you from trying something different , but it’s a fact that roots on any plant that have you’d access to oxygen do remarkably well as compared to those that struggle from strangulation from mixed that are not porous.

People grow in clay usually because its their native soil. They transplant seedlings (usually seasonable vegetables) or even direct seed into a outdoor native clay soil location. It is pretty much counter productive to raise seedlings intended for transplant in compact clay soil since it will slow down the developing root system. If you had a patch of ground and planted supermarket lemon seeds and left them to their own devices with no cold protective care whatsoever other than watering/fertilizer that would be a valid. If something survived even one winter it might be worth pulling and growing further in a pot, then re-trialing later. This whole thing, I have no idea where it gets you

Meyermike (Zone 6a Ma ) i
to me it sounds like it but to get trees to be both strong and vigorous some times you must put the roots through the the type of soil that is hard to grow in and you grow them in the type of soils that it is easy for them they don't come out quite as strong but weaker makes them better rooted that is nature for the native soil here is clay I know most people can't do nothing with clay but when that is the type of soil you grew up with you learn how to grow things in various types of clay some of them are more pours than others and some are more productive than others I mostly grew up in the region of the great black swamp of northwestern Ohio and the main soil type there is clay so hard they used to make ceramic drainage tiles and brick from the clay . Here is more pours than up there that is where learned to grow every thing in clay soils even from .my youth that is why I'm DIFFERENT DIFFERENT climate requires different approaches

HOWARD

bklyn citrus (zone 7B) here in Ashland Kentucky the native soil is clay and I grew up with the Great Black Swamp of northwestern Ohio a much harder clay than here. Most people can't do nothing with clay but I'm one of the few that can maybe that is why we couldn't get on the same page

HOWARD

Howard you can't create your own reality and decide its a fact lol. Making your trees grow in difficult conditions will not make them tougher LOL. Trees are not humans.

We can't get on the same page because I don't think you have the capability to understand.

kevin Benoit - zone 4b
I'm not creating my own reality but growing trees In ideal soil can make them weak and lazy and not try to toughen up. but when you plant trees in unfavorable conditions they toughen up and adapt if given the right chance even though It may be stressful to the trees so as long as the stress isn't too great the will adapt and possibly develop the genetics to handle that stress even if if is growing clay soil in cold climates but that takes time

I do have the capacity to understand but if trees don't get tougher when growing them in unfavorable conditions why do 0ak trees get tougher when growing in to cope with those conditions

HOWARD

That is false... Just double checked with my friend who is an agronomist and has an obsession with oaks.

You'd just end up with unhealthy trees. thats why you wouldn't see a big oak tree in a bog for example. can't say i've ever seen a strong oak tree on the side of a wind swept cliff either.

its the precise reason why oaks are the last trees to make their way into an ecosystem. At least in my ecosystem in atlantic canada. we even had a chapter on this in 9th grade science back in 09

Oak trees are genetically meant to grow in clay craggy waste lands where other trees won't. This has occurred over the past several million years. Many species of Oaks perished because they could not make the changes necessary to survive. You just have to get that lucky seed that would have hit the trash with anyone else.

And you are talking about growing trees in containers , at least I am and not the ground.
If you grow a citrus tree in a mix of any kind that suffocates the roots or has too much water retention , in a container , it will decline and eventually die. That’s a fact.
Why don’t you just plant thousands of seedlings or seeds into the clay soil in the ground and see if one survives the cold?
First you must master the art of growing healthy productive trees in containers.
What’s your goal ?
To first grow a healthy tree into its mature years in a pot before trying it in the ground ?
Kind of confused
Let us know when you’ve grown a robust healthy citrus tree in a pot for a year or two.

right now I'm living in a hotel room that is why . but somehow I got three seedlings in proving in growth more coming up so I must be doing something right

HOWARD

Kevin Benoit I regret to tell you about the swamp oaks members of the white oak family they thrive in swampy bogs and the oaks on cliffs probably the soil too poor and the rocks won't let the trees grow but all trees have to have some stress so they can develop new generation for survival you get too much stress it kills the trees but not enough makes them lazy and sticks to one type of condition to toughen they need some stress but not too much too fast that is why I intend to slowly adapt and select only the strongest trees from the growing in unfavorable conditions

HOWARD

Yeah, you have 3 likely eureka lemon seedlings in a pot. Will they under any conditions, let alone your conditions, survive outdoors, bloom and fruit? Is your toughening regime going to somehow make them survive going out in the cold in a pot no less? You seek validation in some capacity constantly saying you are doing something right. Forgive me if I don't see the point of this, nor am I required to buy into your alternative reality. Go plant some seeds by the highway or an abandoned farm, etc., then do nothing for them. That would accomplish more.

because I don't know what I'm going and I will plant them out side when I get Washington dc and now the farm will be in Kentucky so they can be grown in Kentucky soil but I'm talking about getting them to handle -5 °F toughening genetic genetically but that takes many years . that's one thing we can both agree with but they need to adapt and grow in Kentucky first to get them to grow with protection and later with on WITHOUT the protection this will be along process i know but that is what it is going to take

HOWARD

Kevin this time you are wrong because there is a type of oak that can grow in bogs and get big that is the swamp oak it's in the white oak family it get from 60 to 80 feet tall and just as wide

HOWARD

Kevin Benoit your friend that is obsessed with oaks must not of heard of swamp white oak can grow up to 60 to 70ft tall they can live in bogs some where you friend missed a few species of oak trees some times you just have to look at things your self

HOWARD

Kevin Benoit - Zone 4 your friend has apparently never heard of types of swamp oak that can live in bogs so he must have over looked these species of oaks for they can very big

so your friend needs to know about these oak species I think ignored them thinking no one would ever bring anything up about them

HOWARD

Kevin Benoit Zone 4 there is something wrong with your ninth grade scince because it is not accurate

Kevin Benoit - Zone 4 have the capacity to understand but maybe I just think on a higher plane of any thing is possible if you are willing WILLING to put the effort into it

HOWARD

Mike - or anyone else with experience. I purchased a ponderosa lemon a few months ago and it has grown like crazy. It's over three feet tall already and the leaves are pretty huge as well. It resides outside presently, in full sun and is watered every day. I will be bringing it inside shortly as the cooler weather arrives. I have a few questions:

1) does it need to be pruned? If so, how do you recommend doing it?

2) does it lake a large pot. The pot presently is about 8" diameter, but I feel it's too small for the plant. I'm thinking it doesn't want to be pot bound.

3) should I give it one last feeding for the summer? I use a granular slow release fertilizer. Are they heavy feeders?

4) Inside - less water? Spray the leaves to add humidity periodically? I will be near a window, so it will receive a lot of sun indoors too.

5) What else should I know or expect? The two branches appear pretty soft, so if it does manage to flower and produce a fruit, won't the weight of the fruit weight the branches down?

Thanks all - I want this to survive the winter and flower. Mike has told me how wonderful they smell, and I can't wait to see myself.

I also have a mock orange which I purchased which Mike convinced me to buy as well (I think he gets a commission from Logees!). It too will be coming inside shortly, but it's a fairly small plant at the moment, maybe only 9-10" high at the moment. Any special instructions concerning it also?

Thanks again.

I got more lemon coming up now

Bill M, you would likely get a better response if you posted your questions in a new post, rather than piggy back onto this one, which tends to be a monologue.

I was more going for an example with my ecosystem here in eastern Canada (I specified too). If you found some other oaks that likes to grow in swamps, good on you.

Swamp and bogs are different, here in our bogs no trees grow at all except wild blueberries. My statement wasn't wrong but maybe we've derived a bit from the point of the argument.

Dave, thanks, I posted in a separate one Mike started.

kevin Benoit Zone 4a there are a few types of oaks that can get big in the bogs of eastern Canada but not many

but you probably wasn't aware of those species of Oaks

HOWARD

see I have the capability to understand but I have learned that any thing is possible if you want to put the effort and money to it and if the technology doesn't exist develop it for that is what many people done like the write brothers did and so did NASA

HOWARD

Kevin Benoit Zone 4b
one of them dose up there in Canada as well the swamp white Oak may the only reason that we derived at an argument is because I checked about types of swamp oak which I know that really didn't expect out of me

HOWARD

I mean.. we did take a really long (3 hours) drive today for fun since we are on vacation. We have large peat bogs all over. Its very beautiful, full of birds of prey, lots of small mammals, low lying bushes, the odd battered pine clinging on with nothing higherthan 3 meters but zero leafy trees whatsoever. I must share pictures from the tourism center, its worth it.

Good on you for making the research.

maybe what those species are not In your region but there's a lot of swamp oak species somewhere that meanings got twisted that we can probably agree on maybe your friend a
that's obsessed with oaks can tell you some of these species and the sure number of them will surprise you

Bill M. have no experience with ponderosa lemon trees but if you want to keep the tree small then pruning will be a nessacarry act because they get 12 to 24 ft. tall . no plant likes to be pot bound because that will kill the tree because the roots have no more room to grow and roots need space pruning will make it bushy may try a ten inch pot . try slow release fertilizer for it still grows through the winter and if fruiting in the fall best to increase the fertilizer to feed the fruit production a lot of fruit can break the BRANCHES WITHOUT some adjustments somewhere . a mock orange is not a citrus but a type of Hydrangea.

ponicirusguy6b452xx
I hope I gave Bill M proper advice for the way I put it for I have no experience with that type tree

HOWARD

Howard, thank you. I will place it into a larger pot. It'll be something I do this weekend, along with slow release fertilizer. Mike gave me excellent advice also, he's been my tutor of sorts (and my dealer since he got me hooked on these fragrant plants 🤣).

Stay well my friend....

ponicirusguy6b452xx

I am now putting eggshell powder at the on the soils that my citrus grow In and I'm using a coffee grinder to grind my eggshells just to give my citrus extra calcium for my fertilizer just dosen't have enough for better growth that is why I am using eggshell powder for extra calcium for them

Kevin, are those cranberries all that red? Just amazing. I have yet to walk through one of those. I can't believe all that color.

Bill, Howard helped a bit. I like that)

Mike

bklyn do EUREKA LEMONS have any thorns because one of my seedlings has a couple of thorns

HOWARD

ponicirusguy6b452xx
my question right now is do EUREKA lemon trees have thorns
HOWARD

Kevin Benoit Zone 4b so I see no oak looks like northern Maine where nothing seems to grow and it caribou territory

HOWARD

can anyone tell me I EUREKA LEMONS have thorns

I do not know.

All citrus have thorns, especially seedlings.

thanks Dave are you saying that that one is about to take off growing now

I'm saying all citrus have thorns. Just answering your question.

Kevin Benoit Zone 4b may because I'm much farther south is where we went wrong this time

HOWARD

Dave are you saying the one that has the thorns is about to take off in growth.
HOWARD