I did a bit of internet research and found something that may be the cause for the change to LVT/LVP flooring.

Every manufacturer has to be really careful so that they don't get sued. 10-15 years ago LVT/LVP came with a warning that it was not suitable for wet area use. My sister got tile in her bathrooms at that time because LVT couldn't be used in the bathrooms.

Manufacturers answered the requests to have LVP/LVT in our bathrooms.

In 2019 this study was completed by Clemson University Materials Science Engineering Dept.

https://tigerprints.clemson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=matsci_pubs

"From the survey of product literature (including advertisements), each product tested for this report is claimed to be waterproof, water resistant, or depicted being used in areas where flooring gets wet. Such claims and advertisements suggest that the products can be used in wet applications. While 18.2% of the products measured above a wet DCOF value of 0.42, 81.8% of the products measured either below 0.42 in all test directions (72.7%) or below 0.42 when tested on their long axis (9.1%). According to the ANSI A326.3 standard, any product measuring below 0.42 would not be suitable to be walked on when wet."

The manufacturers were essentially put on notice. Anyone who slipped or fell in their bathroom after installing the product could successfully go after the manufacturer for knowingly putting them at risk. There was a published study that pointed out the problem.

I don't know if there were earlier studies that prompted change, but I don't see the manufacturers backing down if the result is that they can be sued for millions of dollars if someone slips and falls when walking on their floor when it is wet.

@Jennifer Hogan There’s gotta be a happy medium though. They’ve definitely gone too far unnecessarily with the matte effect. Our old Cali (installed 2019) is textured and not slippery (it’s in the kitchen and gets plenty plenty wet often with my little helper) and isn’t destructive in the least. It also doesn’t have the annoying hard-to-look-clean, smudgy issue the super matte floors do. BUT we just got newer samples of the same Cali floor and they’ve since updated their finish, probably without even knowing it (at least the sales people are not aware of the change at all). It’s now just as destructive as others so, just to be clear, I’m no longer recommending North Shore Oak to anyone now. Just giving the old version as an example of something that’s totally able to be safe, even wet, without being destructive.)

@surrendertoflow

I hear you and I understand your frustration and your belief that the smoother finishes were fine, but this is what you and the manufacturers are up against.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-10-29/america-s-slip-and-fall-king-wants-to-save-you-from-a-workplace-wipeout

You are fighting a battle that cannot be won.

No manufacturer is going to prioritize damage to your socks over someone else's loss of life.

Just think if you were sitting on a jury.

Some young mother of 3 slipped and fell in her bathroom and is now in a wheelchair. Can never run after her kids again, maybe she can't even pick them up anymore.

Now the manufacturer is on the witness stand and explains that they were aware that their product didn't meet the standards for preventing slip and fall accidents, but when they met these standards about 10% of the homeowners who purchased their product complained that their socks and their kids tights were getting ruined by the flooring and it was too rough for babies to crawl on and not scrape their skin. In order to please these customers they ignored the standards and went back to making their flooring smooth enough to make those customers happy.

I know this is not the answer you want to hear, but you need to accept reality. The manufacturers are not going to side with you. They can't.

@Jennifer Hogan, @surrendertoflow

Just going to chime in again because I get the lawsuit thing, but what about other types of flooring currently being sold then? laminate is smooth and non destructive, engineered hardwood is smooth and non destructive, and yes even tile with the bathroom rated texture is not near as destructive as this lvp that the author of this thread and so many of us are talking about. And, another note is that a friend of mine had a less expensive Home Depot brand of LVP (lifeproof) installed recently and it is a lot smoother than ours and so far has not been destructive to her socks. Just my 2 cents 🙂

@Jennifer Hogan

I understand your point, but, again, not asking for standards to be ignored or for floors to be slippery and dangerous. There is no need to carry the nonslip standards to such an extreme that they are destructive. Many of the samples we’ve seen are VERY extreme (totally believable they would cause abrasions on little ones). I’m still here only to try to find floors for us and to try to help others be aware of the problem so that they can at least test it out for themselves and hopefully avoid the worst ones. I’m not in the least expecting that anything I’m saying is actually going to change the industry (and again, even if I could change it all by some miracle I’d only be asking them to change to non destructive levels of non slip, which as far as iI can tell would be just slightly less matte with embossing/texture still present.)

@E Madsen I thought I remembered when we were looking at cheap glue down planks they were not as destructive feeling pre pandemic when we were still in stores (but we were worried about cheap/glue down not being a as durable so kept to rigid core). Based on your comment though, I think we’ll look at those again and hope we can find something that looks decent with a less destructive finish! Thank you for those 2 cents!

@surrendertoflow

hi , happy to put in my "2 cents" please keep me posted in what you find . ps the lifeproof brand that my friend boight was not glue down it eas click lock, but again, limited in colors and a "cheaper" brand , so we went with rigid core Coretec in our gamily room - beautiful but shredding our socks. We want to add more lvp in other rooms but will wait to hear from others that can give us advice 😊

This just sounds like an excuse for an unintended consequence. The vinyl manufacturers probably didn’t know how abrasive their product was, but once it became an issue, they needed an out from this liability. Hence the slip and fall defense. Tile, wood and old style sheet flooring can be slippery but they haven’t stopped using them.

I’m not an expert, but it seems that people want a “waterproof or “water-resistant” surface for a reason. Normally wood isn’t the best flooring for bathrooms or in many cases kitchens. If you choose a flooring tile, it too is rated if it should be allowed in wet areas ie to prevent falls. I’ve had installers discourage installing certain tile in bathrooms unless treated. I can understand that LVP manufacturers might be especially vulnerable to lawsuits since they specifically advertise for “wetter” conditions ie advertising as 100% waterproof. I guess there is no perfect flooring.

This post is alarming we didnt know and just installed cortec hd highland oak and its shredding our clothes in under a few hours. we have a new baby and now are at a loss. causes holes in guests socks as well.

@umfoxm I’m so sorry this is happening to you! i keep hoping with time they will change it. Please do let them know! i know some retailers have worked with Coretec claims reps that have helped some people if they complain about it, but it depends on the retailer and rep on how sympathetic they are (and how insistent you are). We’re even thinking about trying to buff our floor because we still haven’t found a replacement. (But you should go through claims process before doing something like that because I’d think it would void the warranty.)

Just another reason, along with offgassing and plastics, to avoid these floors. We did consider, but going full hardwood now.

Thank you for sharing. We were planning to order the Coretec Grande and are now reconsidering. We need something water resistant and tile is so hard to walk on day after day. We also have young kids and were thinking the LVP was going to be great. Definitely going to consider my options again

After reading the issues that you had with LVP, I decided to go with Pergo WoodCraft engineered wood which is scratch resistant and waterproof. My brother-in-law tested it by cutting it full-on with a utility knife and you could barely see a scratch. We installed it through the house (1700 sq ft) and the color (Glenwood Springs Hickory) reminds me of your Northshore. I love it! (Picture below)

My sister has been looking at LVP and is leaning towards Floor and Decor's waterproof Nucore. It looks really nice - wondering if you looked into that one?

@NJ Pegi Looks great! We looked at engineered wood but found that it didn’t have anywhere near the dent resistance that LVP does. But it certainly does do away with the pattern repeats problem! I literally have a cart full of pergo samples right now (anything that lists anything but matte for the finish, including their waterproof laminate out of desperation), so I’ll add what you got to the cart as well! Thank you! And congratulations!

Oh and we did look at nucore at one point, I think there was one non matte option at that time but it looked really poor quality ( unrealistic picture, no EIR, very thin). But it has been a long time so we can look again.

My sister is looking at NuCore Deerfield Hickory. It's 8mm and very pretty but she's hesitant because when researching she heard that it might be made in China and may have some denting issues.

The Pergo WoodCraft is exclusive to Lowes and is supposed to be waterproof and have superior scratch and dent resistance, which is interesting since it is an "Engineered wood" https://www.lowes.com/search?searchTerm=glenwood+springs+hickory 

Has anyone looked at McMillian floors? I saw this on TT shortly after we chose Coretec ProPlus... then I started roughing up our sample and now I am going to cancel that and find something else. We are putting LVP in our new build (4000 sq ft). We have rowdy dogs and teens so I need something solid because our current hardwood has seen it's share of torture.

THE FLOORING FACTORY on TikTok

McMillian sounds like a private label product for the Flooring factory, that is produced by one of the big manufacturers in China, it’s probably sold under many different names by other vendors. They do this for a few reasons, they might get a very good price on this product, they can oversell it’s good points to naive customers, like it’s something unique,
it’s hard to do comparative shopping for the customer, so they can make a better margin. Remember, It’s easy to compare all the national brands, they all have the same product, price shopping is simple and that can save you money. Be careful about small or unique brands claiming that their product is superior to the National brands, it rarely is superior. Think about research and development, who has a budget for this, a little one off retailer pushing his own product or a multi billion dollar manufacturer? Just saying that most new products come from national brands who have the money to invest in the future, but not all, just most.

Thank you for your feedback! That's really helpful advice. Flooring is the one thing I am really nervous about getting right.

I should have investigated the hazy/dirty look andfootprint problem before going with Coretec Pro Plus in October, 2022. Spent 7,000$. The planks are actually beautiful, but looks very dirty and hazy with footprints (bare feet)right after cleaning it. I called customer support immediately after the install to make sure that I was caring for it and cleaning it properly so it wouldn’t get damaged. They recommended Coretec Encore cleaner. That is all that I have used. I left them a message about the dirty/ footprint problem and they responded that it may be due to a buildup of the wrong type of cleaner. But, like I said I have only used their brand and recommended cleaner-Encore. Now I only use water and it’s a little better but still looks filthy with the haze and footprints the next day. I believe it is due to a defective matte finish.

@User Thank you for posting the video! He’s right it’s industry-wide (not just Flooret), but it’s not the aluminum oxide coating (or at least not just) that’s to blame for the destructiveness. Our Coretec Berlin Pine is UV acrylic (no aluminum oxide) and it shreds. Or Our old Cali Bamboo is also coated with UV acrylic but it doesn’t shred at all. The only common denominator in the ones that we’ve tested is how matte the floor is.

Have you tried Mohawk RevWood Select - Boardwalk Collective - Sand Dune? If so, same abrasiveness?

Tagging those in this post who have reported having/being aware of similar fabric/skin issues with destructively matte LVP: @umfoxm, @E Madsen, @Angela Wheat, @teamlog23, @Megan Philbin, @taradarnell, @lb913, @Richard Pozar

I'm writing to Consumer Reports to see if they are willing to take on this issue as it's apparently becoming more widespread (there were 20 just recently reporting this issue in just one FB post I commented on this week!). The manufacturers are largely ignoring or dismissing us, even those with kids with abrasions on their feet (as was happening in the FB post). I'm inviting you to join me in alerting CR in the hopes that if we all speak up at the same time, then maybe they will take it seriously and then THEY can do the tests for us (and hopefully will pressure the industry to take it seriously too so that future families won't suffer.)

Here is the link to the webpage with info on how to contact them (I'm contacting via email at tips@cro.consumer.org ):

https://www.consumerreports.org/consumer-protection/submit-a-tip-to-consumer-reports/#:~:text=Email%3A%20tips%40cro.consumer,Read%20more%20about%20encrypted%20email.)

I’ve been following this thread and videos since we’re trying to determine whether to go with lvp or wood. Because this seems to be a matte issue on lvp, would non-matte lvp have any of the issues you’ve faced?

I’m so torn. I am so close to purchasing CoreTec LVP (Wheaton oak or Navarro oak) for my home, but after reading I am reconsidering. I am extremely cautious now and worried about wasting $15,000+. Any thoughts on laminate? Mohawk’s RevWood?

@surrendertoflow I am so sorry to read of your dilemmas w/ the various flooring you have tried! You have helped to educate many of us here on this thread, so thank you. I am also looking to pull the trigger within a month or two on about 3000sf of LVP in our new build home. We are empty nesters but have a pool and a large dog so the vinyl appeals to us for those sorts of reasons. But now I am panicking a little bit after reading all of this!! I would go crazy if the floor didn't look clean, or if I could see footprints or dog paw prints all over it even after cleaning w/ approved products. I have real wood floors now and have that exact problem, and it drives me mad. Ironically, I was told that LVP was so much easier to clean - just sweep, mop w/ water, and voila, clean floors. But now I am wondering if that's true since so many are commenting on the difficulty of keeping them clean. I don't so much care about holes in socks although when the grand babies come to town for a visit, I imagine I would. Here are the specs of the one we are considering.

https://realwoodfloors.com/collections/reflections/ash-brown-6

I'm wondering if the ceramic bead top coat finish may make a difference?? ugh.

6mm (5mm + 1 mm IXPE Backing) THICK

IXPE Sound Barrier Pad

Embossed

Ceramic Bead Protective Top Coat Finish

20 mil Wear Layer

Unipush Locking System

@Ellen in Texas, I have never used LVP in a home, but we built in FL in 2021 on a slab foundation and I chose engineered wood floors. My three previous houses had site finished wood floors. I have 3 dogs, and two are 60 lbs each and do crazy runs through the house with leg/nails going a mile a minute. I did a fair amount of research and tested many engineered wood samples. My main tests were using a sharp object to scratch the floor and placing water and/or dog drool on the samples.

I ended up with an engineered wood floor from DuChateau (Riverstone Collection) with a Hard Wax Oil finish. We have been in the house 16 months and I'm very happy with the floors. Very resistant to scratches and no staining from dog drool, wet paws, dog vomit or a scalding full mug of tea that I spilled on the floor. If I had to pick again, I would choose this engineered wood floor again over the site finished wood floors in my previous houses.

Very nice engineeered hardwood also off the subject but what colorvus your wall paint? It looks great

@E Madsen , the walls are BM White Dove and trim is BM Chantilly Lace.

@Ellen Jester,

I think i've posted earlier in this discussion, but will repeat myself here.

Have you looked at SuperCore?

It meets or exceeds all the specs you have listed. We've had ours down for 2 years. We live on a lake, and have 15 grandchildren (13 of them live within an hour of us).

To date - NOT a single knick or scratch in the LVP! We clean with a microfiber mop (dry) and damp mop with just a little Mr. Clean in warm water. No streaks, no film - just clean.

ZERO affiliation with the company - just extremely pleased with their product!

We installed 2600 sf of Happy Feet Pinnacle LVP in our new build and am very happy with it. i had read through this group many times prior but decided with grown kids it was more important to us to have a matte look and low maintenance than risk wearing out our socks. I definitely prefer the feel of natural wood under bare feet but this LVP is not wearing out our socks or our bare feet. So far it feels like a great decision. interesting anecdotal observation - when in our old house, which had hardwood throughout, when we laid out various LVP samples and left them there for a week, our dog stated laying on the Happy Feet sample section. Never the other samples. 🤔

Do not use NuCore from Floor&Decor.

Supercore weshipfloors I installed 2 years ago and love

Avoid Stanton Lenox Peak Blanca is all I can share with this group. Hope I helped someone. Going through a claim now. Awful. Never cleans. Good luck to all.

Has anyone ever used paramount? I was looking for a chevron or herringbone and found I could do straightboards and herringbone in the same color with Paramount. But I don't see any reviews of that brand! Thanks!

Has anyone tried one of those steam cleaners on LVP flooring? They say you can as long as you don't leave it on one spot too long. Curious if this lifts the dirt out of those long crevices and enables you to suck or pull it to one end of the floor to wipe up?

Thank you very much.

Jill

Has anyone tried one of those steam cleaners and did it lift out the dirt from those crevices? I've heard it is an option if you don't leave it on one place too long.

Thank you,

Jill

We purchase Paramount and have had nothing but trouble with this floor. BUYER BEWARE https://www.paramountflooring.com/country-of-origin/ 

Beware of the process with this product. Terrible Company they don't even list a phone number to call...Hello!

Has anyone used Homecrest Cascade LVP? We're in process of getting our floor done & this thread is making me so nervous. We had almost locked Coretec Calypso but I guess not anymore. If anyone has any comments about Homecrest Cascade Lux series - Potomac, please share you opinion.

@surrendertoflow - were you successful in finding a replacement?

@PB not yet. We put the search on hold with major other work in our house over the last year (snowballing), but I need to return to it (begrubegrudgingly) .

@surrendertoflow I’m so sorry this happened to you. By any chance did you make a YouTube video about this issue? I think I saw it and it made me research it more. We are considering putting the Cali flooring in our home because we are more concerned about the scraping and can sacrifice the repeating patterns. Did you find anything about the cali flooring you didn’t like aside from the aesthetics? You had the longboards?

@PB ugh. I’m sorry to say at one point we were so fed up enough that we were considering going back and just getting the same cali bamboo we have downstairs and just put up with the pattern repeats, but when we got updated samples of the exact floor we have they had changed the finish to that matte destructive finish so now that’s not even an option anymore :( (it’s been well over a year since we got those samples though). The Cali rep swore nothing had changed about the North Shore Oak so I sent him a video showing our old North Shore not damaging fabric at all and the newer samples tearing holes almost instantly and no one ever replied to me. It’s all so frustrating.

Ellen in Texas, you sound like us, with two 70 lb dogs. We, too are trying to find LVP flooring. Some flooring shop owners say go with glue down only, some say do floating. What did you go with and are you happy with it?
Thank!
Nicki

Has anyone ever tried Hewn flooring?? It’s not an LVP, but a “stoneform” so might not have the texture issue. Strongly considering this for our new house but wish i could see it installed or get more real reviews on it.

@Krystle Barnes I read the description and it sounds like they are just marketing SPC (stone composite ) as ”stonecore”. In other words, it still sounds like LVP. But you can always get samples to test. And you can ask the company to tell you how it’s different from other SPC.

can't you just do a nice engineered wood floor and forget all the vinyl,patterns/repeats headache? nothing is better than real wood. as for your dents, are you dropping dumbells on the floor?? why so worried about dents?

Engineered wood flooring has a 50 yr guarantee and lifespace (if not longer) compared to vinyl w/15-20 yrs?

But, Have you looked at Cortona Plus? seems to be one of the better looking LVPs

Mission Cortona

I have the Calif classics wide plank, hand brushed french oak and couldn't be happier. I've had all sorts of pet accidents, nail scratches, dropped things, etc. It cleans up nicely and you can't even see any minor dings.

Stain on site solid wood?

speaking of calif bamboo, did you consider any of their carbonized bamboo floors? those are at a 4000 on the MOHS scale.

or, go with a large porcelain tile. pretty much bulletproof

Everything is a tradeoff, even w/LVP. Pick the one that you can lay down and forget.

If we could just get engineered wood and not have it ruined pretty quickly by our son then we would. (I don’t want explain the details, just that we do know what our own needs are and why.) Yes, we got samples of their bamboo flooring. Even the installer we were working with at the time said don’t do bamboo because he’d seen so many problems. I’d love to get porcelain tile but it’s so cold (and we’re on the floors so much) that we’d need the heating underlay and that’s not even remotely in our budget. It wouldn’t have to be a trade off if the LVP manufacturers didn’t make the mindless and unnecessary decisions they did! I’m hoping as more people complain about the abrasiveness then it will change (and we are definitely not the only ones at this point…Flooret even even had a case brought against them partially for the abrasiveness). At any rate many other things with the house have taken our resources over these past few years so hopefully the flooring industry will have solved these issues by the time we’re back in the market to solve our flooring troubles! Thank you for taking the time to give suggestions!

@surrendertoflow Hewn floor claims to be more durable and scratch resistant because it probably is when it’s compared to non-SPC products like LVP? I just haven’t been able to find reviews that aren’t from bloggers/influencers. Becki Owens endorses it and partnered with them for her own line and I love her as a designer but wish I could find some non-paid reviews as well. The paid reviews (blogs, Instagram stories, etc) have all been super positive even with follow up reviews later down the road, and they do seem genuine, but obviously at the end of the day they were compensated in some way. But I am hopeful this might be the best luxury plank during… it’s supposed to even feel and look like wood where other SPC’s might feel colder like tile. Anyway, something you might want to consider when you’re ready to look into it again. I’ll probably be ordering some samples in the next few months and will try to remember to post about it.

@Krystle Barnes Whenever they try to tell feel like real wood, that usually means that terrible matte abrasive finish that’s so trendy (as in it feels like raw sanded wood, not like old school hardwood with a smooth finish). It is admittedly very convincing when they use that finish to make it feel like wood, but so not worth it. We’ll add it to the list of things to check out just in case though!