LEDs are the future and I have found most flush ones are intergrated bilbs which I try very hard to not purchase since if a bulb goes you need a new fixture . I like simple 3-4” pots with LED bulbs in 4000K in most spaces and they really disappear unless lit. I do agree a lighting designer is really a good idea. I really don’t love pot lights in LRs and if you have a vaulted ceiling they are IMO useless anyway. BTW I have no idea who is giving pricing but they are making a huge profit . I buy the pots made for MR16 halogens and get the LED bulbs that replace the MR16 you do not want to go bigger for a pot light than 4"

Humans feel best with eye level lighting - think of the comforts of camp fires and fireplaces. For that reason, a lighting design needs to include table and floor lamps in living and sleeping spaces.

The modern trend to all ceiling lighting is like living in a garage.

Agree with all three comments above.

A lighting consultant can help with placement and type (ambient, task, accent) and getting the temperature of LEDs correct is important depending on how it’s being used.

LEDs are the future, and nobody relishes changing light bulbs, so the endurance is a plus.

I hate ceiling lighting in general. I’ll have LED wafers in my kitchen because there are no windows, but also under-cabinet, glass cabinet, range hood and pendant lighting.

What I truly despise is the big globe in the middle of a room and most ceiling fan lights. Yuck. I think my electrician wants to quit with my crazy requirements. The switched outlets on the balcony ceilings (for outdoor string lights) might have done him in.

Avoid integrated LED fixtures whenever possible. Most today have a very low CRI/TM30 which is uncomfortable and as we're learning unhealthy. A traditional downlight w/ a changeable LED lamp will allow you to upgrade to better quality (higher TM30) in the future.

FWIW, the 123 downlights in our new home (https://bamasotan.us) are nearly all traditional 4" cans w/ GU-10 lamps. We did do surface mount LED's in the garages, storage rooms and mechanical rooms.

"No offense intended to electricians but I recommend architects, interior designers and lighting consultants for assistance with lighting design."

I've seen a lot of atrocious lighting design from architects, interior designers and lighting consultants and some quite good design from electricians. In one house the plumber said "why don't you do this and this..." and it was actually a great idea (I'll try to find photos). Just because someone is an architect doesn't mean they know anything about lighting (and as we see across the U.S. it also doesn't mean they know anything about architecture). It all depends on the individual.

We have pot lights through our main floor. I always intended to get lamps too but haven’t yet, two years later. We actually rarely have ours on because of natural light and in the evening have the dimmer on. I have no idea if ours are bad or good but they work great and we like them. We have some that are angled and some that just point down. Our interior designer planned the layout for them all.

As a realtor don’t you have access to homes where you can look and see what lighting is being used and if it’s an issue or not?

There are 2 questions here, right?

Surface mount vs can and integrated LED vs not.

I have a mixture of surface vs can but they are all integrated LED. Surface are cheaper and look a bit cheap. We have them in pantries, laundry etc. The kitchen and primary hallway have cans.

No cans (or surface mounts) in bedrooms or living room. Those are mostly lamps.

I have no issues with the quality of light from the integrated LEDs and have no failures either.

David - when you say “surface,” do you mean those wafer lights? Or something else?

4-inch standard cans, why? Because when the bulb fails you can put a new bulb in. Bulbs fail, also though LED is the future, they may develop over time and perhaps you may just want to upgrade the bulbs at your leisure. Wafer lights were really about not having space for a recessed light when developed, now I feel like they are the cheap way out.

@c9pilot: "when you say “surface,” do you mean those wafer lights?"

No, means lights that sit on the ceiling surface such as these Halo SMD lights, rather than being placed in a hole cut in the ceiling. These Halo SMD attach to a ceiling electrical box.

I agree that you should stick with fixtures where you can change the bulb. not just due to failure, but they keep improving these things. I hated LEDs 10 years ago, and now they're so much better. I tend to upgrade mine every few years or so (the old ones are reused in less important locations or donated).

I also agree with ulisdone that eye-level light is necessary. well-placed cans are useful, but I hate it when people use them for the only lighting source. the worst being when homeowners don't notice their lighting is pointed directly where people are going to be standing or sitting, causing an uncomfortable glare that's also super unflattering. do you think people want their thinning hair and eye bags exaggerated? because that's what badly placed ceiling lights do.

so to that end... I strongly agree with PP that you should consider hiring a lighting designer.

It saves little or no money to install a PAR20 LED bulb in a typical 4" recessed housing with a reflector or baffle trim compared to a retrofit type integral LED fixture in a similar housing. However, the latter can provide up to 40% more lumens, less glare, better COB light quality and last longer. Both can be easily pulled down by hand and replaced later.

The fact that it would be cheaper to replace a bulb than an integral unit is offset by the higher rate of failure of a typical PAR20 LED bulb with a driver built into its base wrapped in a plastic covered thin metal heat sink. PAR20 bulbs with cast metal heat sinks can cost as much as a replacement retrofit unit.

Of course, if you save the box and receipt you might be able to get a free replacement bulb within the warranty period.

I found it helpful to go through model homes and take note of where the lights were (ex. how many cans, where were they placed, where were the floor lamps, etc). There's a reason why the models look so good and the lights do not match those on the standard free plans.

IMO the most critical aspect of residential lighting design is the lighting of walls, kitchen counters and cabinets and the light quality and distribution of wafer and giant gimbal units is unfocused and disappointing. There are few affordable adjustable-angle and wall-washer recessed fixtures other than the small gimbal, elbow and eyeball fixtures that extend below the ceiling.

Recessed lighting began with store displays and couched accent lighting is still its best use but today's open space designs and giant TV's have reduced the opportunity to create dramatic focus points in a house but that just makes those few opportunities more critical.

For a tight budget the most affordable 4" retrofit adjustable LED I've found is the Nora Cobalt with a Haze reflector that matches the Cobalt Click 2 downlight. Its has a Cree COB LED and is Title 24 compliant for excellent color rendering at the price of a retrofit PAR 20.

In general, fixtures with replaceable lamps. The integrated ones tend to have terrible CRI and, of course you need to replace the whole fixture when they die. The chances that the new fixture will match the others is about zero. I might make an exception for ceilings where it is difficult to seal and insulate around the can. Penetrations in most cathedral type ceilings are very much to be avoided.

Interesting that folks think that a species that evolved over millions of years with a great luminous orb hanging overhead every day should have some psychological or physiological problem with overhead light.

5 years ago it was true that a replaceable lamp in a reflector cone or baffle type recessed fixture could compete with an integral LED fixture but that's no longer true however you won't find the good integral fixtures at Home Depot. Today integral COB LED fixtures are better for lumen output, glare, color quality and longevity although the replacement lamps often fail sooner from overheating in a recessed housing.

The vast majority of integrated LED fixtures available today are quite poor color quality and often have headache inducing flicker. This includes higher end 'architectural fixtures' from Juno and others. Manufacturers and their industry will of course not tell you this.

The only one's with good TM30 scores and no flicker are exceptionally expensive (when we were looking for them for our house earlier this year the least expensive was around $800 per fixture).

As with all technology, lamp technology will improve (and has been every year). The ability to replace a $25 GU10 lamp with an improved version with better color and flicker quality is nearly priceless.

With integrated fixtures you are locked in for years or decades. If you are happy today with your 20 year old cell phone, CRT TV and florescent tubes for lighting then go integrated, otherwise I'd stay far away from them.

I like the simple flat integrated LED ceiling lights because they are very easy to install, but would only use them to get bright area lighting coverage for cleaning, etc. My primary lighting is table and floor lamps, since the angles and illumination spread are much more pleasing to the eye.

Most of the new flat LED lights are designed to fit standard size holes in the sheetrock ceiling (4", 5" etc.) and its almost a trivial job to pop one out and wire in the box for a new one, so I'm not too worried about needing to eventually replace them. Also, they entire unit is so cheap ($12-15) that its only about twice the price of an LED light bulb. The newer ones I purchased also have color temperature setting on the junction box, so in theory you can pick whatever lighting look you want.

Bruce

The color rendition of LED light is independent of color temperature. There are reasonably priced integral retrofit LED recessed fixtures available with excellent color rendition.

Highgarden Real Estate Charlotte, this is not the place to get lighting advice; find a lighting supply house or store that offers lighting design advice. Good luck.

"There are reasonably priced integral retrofit LED recessed fixtures available with excellent color rendition."

Can you provide some examples. Most are still providing only CRI and very few provide TM30.

"find a lighting supply house or store that offers lighting design advice. Good luck."

These are both places incented to sell you something, not to provide good information.

Lighting technology is changing and improving (somewhat rapidly). While there are many benefits to LED, there are many issues as well. The prudent path is to, wherever possible, stick with fixtures that will allow easy upgrades in the future.

@opaone That is simply not true, lighting stores, at least mom and pop style are not out to seek the blood of your pocketbook, without first addressing the need. I actually find that offensive on several levels. Yes stores sell stuff, yes they want you to buy nice things, but sometimes they sell you what you need and hope to gain your business or a referral in the future...........that is a load of....... Moving forward, how does one accomplish good lighting without a consult? Simply listen to your over structured sentences that dissuade people from financially supporting small business?