The wife, I have read, of a wealthy French banker.

Beautiful! Thank you for sharing.

If only it liked it here. Lovely rose, where it's happy. That isn't anywhere near here, unfortunately.

Ohhhh what a lovely portrait!

I have just been looking up the Periere family on wikipedia, etc. They were an interesting family of Sephardic Jewish descent, whose founder Jacob had been a refugee from Portugal who settled in Bordeaux in the 18th c., and changed his surname from Pereira-Rodrigues to Periere. This Jacob Pereire was an enlightenment economist and mathematician, who had invented a sign language for the deaf.

The family supported the moderate faction of the French Revolution (the Girondins) and became involved with the ideas of the utopian socialist, Saint-Simon.

Jacob's grandsons, Emile and Isaac, became fabulously wealthy bankers by using speculation to finance what they saw as social improvements: railroads, parks, sanitariums for TB, and most notably, the rebuilding of Paris undertaken by Baron Haussmann.

Their experiments in finance were criticized by Emile Zola and others, including the Rothschilds. Many lamented the urban renewal of Haussmann -- though, really, by their fruits shall ye know them -- I believe the improvements in transportation and sanitation, at least, were mostly good.

Mme Isaac Pereire, portrayed above, was her husband's second wife, his first having died young, and was Isaac's own niece (b. Fanny Rebecca Pereire). She financed early attempts at flight. There is a metro station in Paris named after the Pereire brothers.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v24/n19/christopher-prendergast/capital-s-capital
See also: Helen M. Davies, Emile and Isaac Pereire: Bankers, Socialists and Sephardic Jews in nineteenth-century France, 2016.

Fascinating, thank you! I always wondered about how to pronounce the surname. "Pereira" puts it in context. And a Haussmann connection...

Good point about the pronunciation Belmont -- do you think it would be something like pear-air?

Close, K S.

Kim . . . Yes, it was an unmitigated disaster here. There wasn't a fungal disease it didn't love, and in my conditions, it was close to being once-blooming. We were exhibiting, then, and the ONLY way you could show it was in an English Box -- so there was no foliage at all.

Interestingly, its sport -- 'Mme. Ernst Calvat' was quite a bit better. Every bit as fragrant, but light pink.

'Mme. Ernst Calvat'

Belmont, the idea was to connect the large railway stations on the periphery of Paris. which seems to me quite beneficial. At any rate, I myself knew nothing at all about all this before yesterday -- well, having been to Paris, a little about Haussmann. But everything I looked at looked opens fascinating vistas. Anyway, I certainly will never look at the rose in quite the same way. The word "opulent" springs to mind.
Mme Ernst Calvat -- certainly tempting.

I've heard her husband was her uncle.
Ah! Excellent, someone else has mentioned it.

I got Madame Isaac Pereire as a band from RVR spring 2019. She gave me her first bloom this year, and only one (on a plant maybe 1.5' tall) bloom as a baby.
Oh my goodness! The colour and scent are magnificent and delicious.

No mildew, we don't get rust, and minimal black spot so far, but I am under no illusions of susceptibility in our damp, Great Lakes influenced humid continental climate.

She grew a nice little bit after that one bloom, and I am excited to see how she does in coming years.

I am concerned about her cold hardiness in the long run, because THAT'S usually what does most roses in here that are actually wimpy gals meant for the French Riviera, benign Old Blighty, or sunny Cal-E-for-nigh-yay as well as the elegant Chinas and Teas where they are full, floriferous, and the things of all rosey fantasies.

Steven

*Shucks- can't edit on the app... Mme Isaac Pereire survived her first winter whereas the "hybrid rugosa" Vanguard died... in the same plot, feet from one another so I guess she's at least a little hardy.

Steven

MiGreenThumb, the two families were already extremely intermarried. I guess it was a way of keeping the property in the family. I didn't want to add that Madame was only fifteen years old when she became Mrs. Isaac. Probably very young in that portrait. Autre temps, autre mœurs. I guess.

No wonder humanity isn't the healthiest with all that inbreeding!

We still behave as though we have to save everyone (ESPECIALLY from themselves) and as though we will stop aging and death!

Gotta keep those bloodlines "pure". Blech!

Hemophilia, anyone!

Dans un autre monde, indeed!

Steven

*I had also read of that 15 years of age aspect.

Truth will never remain hidden, and it matters not how ugly it is!

In Romeo and Juliet, they were what, 12-14 years old? I can't recall and just woke up. (Night worker here at the present and for nearly two years).

Steven

In 19th c. France age of consent was 12, IIRC. Might have been here, too, for all I know. Perhaps varied in different states. School-leaving age in my younger days was still 14. One of my great grandmothers was married at 15 (in Kentucky). She was already working as a teacher.

I have MIP and also MEC. They are my two thirstiest roses; I have to water them at least 2x as often as the others, at least during the hot summer months, otherwise they stop blooming and in fact MEC will defoliate completely. (But will leaf out again when watered.)

They do ok in terms of diseases; we're dry and hot in the summer so don't have a huge amount of disease pressure.

Despite their amazing reputations, they aren't my favorite roses. But that's probably because I haven't made it through a whole summer where I remembered to water them regularly, which means they both end up looking pretty straggly.

If I'm still working from home during the summer of 2021, I hope to be able to baby them this year.

I was just checking the web for info about what I learned are called "avunculate" marriages (uncle-neice"). Wikipedia says that: "The Talmud and Maimonides encourage marriages between uncles and nieces," In the book of Esther, for example, Esther and Mordecai were uncle and niece. Mordecai raised and then married Esther. There are numerous other examples. (although in antiquity "some early Jewish religious communities, such as the Sadducees, believed that such unions were prohibited by the Torah, wikipedia adds.)

Furthermore, traditionally, Jewish marriages were very much arranged by the families involved, not the couple. Romantic marriage was unknown. It was a community affair. Isaac Pereire's mother (who had raised him and his brother, the father having died) was very devout, so this was probably true in this case, as well.

I don't know if "to know all is to forgive", but with context, it seems a lot less strange.

"Mordecai raised and then married Esther." ... That's not creepy, not creepy at all.

Wikipedia has a rather startling list of "avunculate" marriage--mostly among royalty. Not excluding quite a few males who married their aunts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avunculate_marriage

I'll have to disagree that learning more about society and arranged marriages makes it any less strange or more acceptable.
The only thing I can compare it to that I find just as odd nowadays are individuals that don't know what gender they are (or that it can be "picked")!

Steven

I'm sure the individual may, but when "society" is trying to stuff a supposed "72 genders" into being a "norm", I'm just saying that's very concerning regarding minors. (Especially referencing "clover gender"; check that out).

There would be no imposing when there are male and female except as what is being pushed by the supposed enlightened members of society. Such acts may indeed create unnecessary confusion in those that should be protected from adult issues that do not concern them and are underdeveloped in the mind to appropriately make truly thought-out decisions. Is that not why minors are restricted from various types of employment, alcohol, voting, motor vehicles, and anything else minors/children are not to be engaged with?
Other beliefs are the construct of fanciful and infinitely creative imaginations that may need counseling as would borderline personality or dissociative identity disorder.

I do not mean any of this in a cruel or ignorant fashion, but rather from basic elements as well as first-hand observations of how society continues to crumble and become ever less civilized as these things progress.

It's one of many things I'm deeply concerned about regarding the slope we continue to slide down as humanity as a whole.

The beautiful thing is that ALL* opinions are valid in a democracy.

Steven

All points of view are worthy of a hearing, certainly. I get concerned when very young children are pushed into the spotlight and made to publicly share private matters whose full implications they have no way of understanding. There is too much emphasis in Hollywood and Madison avenue on the use of gender segmentation to sell products (pink and fluffy for girls blue and macho for boys). It seems obvious to me that our common humanity and qualities of character are what ought to be emphasized, especially in bringing up children.

Avunculate marriage, like child labor and harsh physical punishment, historically are not strange, unfortunately.

Steven, society may or may not be crumbling, but if it is then surely that has nothing to do with my transgender friends who finally feel comfortable wearing the clothes or using the pronouns that they feel represent who they are. Please remember when you post negative opinions about people's gender that there are plenty of people who grow roses who have also found that mainstream society has at various times rejected them because of their gender or sexuality. Such comments make the forum an unwelcoming place to those people, and hopefully this is a place where we can all get together and enjoy roses, however we identify or whatever we believe. I don't think your comment was made with the intention of causing alienation or hurt, but that also goes to illustrate the underlying idea here that culturally we may have very different ideas about what is OK and what is not, and we are all still good people. The problem comes when we stray from the discussion of history (Mme Issac Pereire isn't likely to take offense) and into the contemporary world, where the people in question are alive and could potentially feel hurt.