B, if you are in upstate NY, your colors might be different than those in other areas with different conditions. Here, I do love Boscobel, but orange was not really what I was going for. This is all part of the fun. I just got another Mary Rose too, because she is lovely but got eaten by voles and Pink Surprise.

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish) Sultry, thanks for those pictures, both look so beautiful! Do they bloom well for you? My JC bloomed all summer, it was pretty amazing. Hopefully she'll survive for next year.

@ratdogheads z5b NH Rat, thanks for the vote for Boscobel. I'm going to give it a try. She was one of my favorites when I first found the forum, before getting any roses. I remember seeing pics of her and Bathsheba but could only find Bathsheba locally last spring. Glad to hear she does well for you in our zone.

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Sheila, beautiful! Great to see all of your plants! I like how Boscobel has the warm pink tones and bright raspberry tones too. Looks like it blooms well. I love the others too, especially that violet in Bishop's Castle. So bold and vibrant, I love it. Mary Rose looks especially pretty and looks like she grows into a nice bush shape which will be nice. I read she has a nice growth habit and blooms a lot. Sorry the voles got her but glad you're getting another. Abe looks pretty, I like how many different colors he seems to show in different videos/pictures. Spirit of Freedom looks really pretty with the blend of pinks and purples. I have 2 in that design of mine, excited to see their flowers. Hopefully the colors work however they show up. I tried to design the bed after looking at enough pictures of each rose to see it's different colors/tones so that it'll hopefully look nice even with shifting colors. We'll see how it works out :)

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) Thanks for the tips! I tried to research the expected size/hardiness with most of them to make sure they wouldn't be eaten by their neighbor or anything. Thanks for the tips on color too. I noticed that with some of my roses this summer, especially the really warm toned ones. They had a lot of variation so I tried to plan accordingly. I had a rose for a while that stayed one red tone...I have no idea what it was but not as ruffly or big in flower as these Austins I tried. It was a nice color but after seeing how varied some of these were this summer, I got really into the chameleon quality. I haven't really seen a plant with such different colored flowers...so hopefully this bed will blend no matter what and work out. I really like Alnwick's strange colorations...will have to find a spot for him somewhere else.

If anyone is interested, here are the names in each row:

1. LoShalott- Carding Mill - LadyEmmaH - JubileeC- Boscobel-Mary Rose

2.James Galway- Spirit of Freedom- Eustacia- Strawberry Hill - Abe-Carding Mill

3.CrownPrincessM- Bathsheba- Jude- Bathsheba - Eglantyne- Olivia RoseA

4.Sharifa Asma-Gen.Hermione -Emily Bronte-Desdemona-Emily Bronte-Crocus

I live in a hot climate, but here, Boscobel can be pink:

Or can be more orange:

But usually opening more orange and fading to pink.

So a good choice for that location. if you live in a wetter climate it will probably get bigger for you,

Bishop's Castle is more of a cool pink.

...and can get big. By the end of the season it will have grown 5-6 foot octopus canes.

Alnwick Castle can be cool pink:

Or warm almost coral in hot weather.

Princess Alexandra of Kent in a more coral mood, but fades after a couple of days to a cooler pink:

This orange to pink and back seems to be David Austin thing to me. Many of my other roses stay in the cool or warm color area they start, even if some fade.

How’s the BS pressure by you? Seems I hear the E coast has heavy pressure- do you spray?

Sultry - I'm amazed by that first Jubilee C. bloom!!!

Sheila - oh my word!!! Your Boscobell bushes are out of this world!!! Swoon!!! Holy Moley - that picture of Bishop's Castle!!! Wow!!! And your SoF .... ohhhhh!!!! And Mary Rose has so many blooms!

Noseometer - is there really a better rose that Boscobel?? Yours is freaking amazing!!! I can't believe it! Yes, there is!!! Your Bishop's Castle...how in the world can you grow such amazing roses!!! I'm in awe!!!

I'm so glad I opened this thread!!

B - your rose garden is going to be heavenly!! I can't wait to see it come together!!! So much fun!!

I also agree with ratdogheads: focus on performance first. You will ultimately have a more satisfying result than having plants that don’t grow or bloom. if they don’t bloom, it doesn’t matter what color the flowers are.

my Bishop’s Castle is never as purple as yours, Sheila! It’s gorgeous! It has many more petals than I’ve seen on mine also. All of your plants look so happy. They must get a lot of love.

Reading all of the ooohs and awwws over Boscobel makes me pull out my credit card and get it ordered.

Brendan, you are so blessed to have such a huge area to plant with all of your favorites

How are you setting up to water?

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) Thanks so much for the photos. I reeeally love the coloring on your bishops castle! That almost flourescent-saturated lilac is so beautiful. Same with your Alnwick, that's what caught my eye about Alnwick. The variations from cool lilac outer petals that contrast with the warm center to make a lantern effect. They're all so nice. I'll have to try them somewhere. Might hold off on PAoK. She looks similar to Boscobel's colors in some pics, and my Carding Mill's colorations (reddish corals to pastels). I do really like her big formed flowers though.

Your boscobel is so full of flowers! Beautiful. I like his round shape too. This spot I'm putting him in has a 3 ft wall on the backside...the hill falls down from this wall. So I picked Boscobel, hoping he wouldn't get too gigantic since I'll be looking out towards the wall (and down on the hill) from my house. Hopefully I'll see the shorter plants at the top of the hill peeking over the wall...then the rest of the plants on the hill heading down but taller.

@Dingo2001 - Z5 Chicagoland Dingo, I have absolutely no idea hah, except for this past summer. I have 3 roses in my garden from before this summer. Random buys over the years and I never took care of them. Never knew to feed roses. They never seemed to get too much blackspot. I never saw it anyways. They get the holes from those annoying green slugs but otherwise they just grow and do their thing.

This year, I noticed blackspot showed up fast in one spot I planted roses in. The spot is on one side of my house with walls blocking either side. All the other areas didn't get it but I think it's because they're out in the open. It's very windy here, too windy sometimes. Maybe that helps? The hillside these are going on, had 8 roses in a row planted this year. The only disease/problems they had were yellow leaves at the bottom of the plants that would fall off. I think because there's so much airflow and wind on that hillside. The area by the house with walls on either side, probably got the blackspot because of the walls blocking the winds. Not sure.

I also sprayed all the roses every 2 weeks with fish/seaweed. I wonder if that had any effect with keeping all the other areas I planted in blackspot free?

@rosecanadian I'm hoping for some heavenly vibes with this hill of roses ;) It's funny because I've wanted to plant something on the hillside for so long. Never found something I actually liked enough to consider filling the hill with, let alone digging it all out like I did for these roses. I'm excited to see how it all looks after some time growing.

@Kristine LeGault 8a pnw I have a lot of drip systems ready for the hillside so I can just keep them on it. I'll probably hose them down in the early mornings too since I enjoy doing that outside in the mornings when it's spring/summer. But I have it so the drip hoses wrap around each big hole I dug, and then I'll cover the hoses with compost after I get the bare roots in next spring.

Noseometer, I really do love my plants. I really need to do better with my thinning volunteers, and weeding among my companion plants. I go further in the naturalistic direction than is ideal, for sure. But, I do love them, especially the roses.

B - you just needed the right motivation!! Roses!!! I'm glad we're here at the start of your rose journey so that we can see it unfold!

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) im so impressed by the cute bushes! How do you keep it looking so tame and full? Mine are mostly first year but so scraggly looking lol

I also read that we shouldn’t prune much first year roses, but these are in front of the house and I would love to have more of a round bush, instead of this mess 🤣 any tips?

CeresMer Zone 7a NJ - What's wrong with your roses? They look great! I wish mine would grow more. I'm sure it's just the climate here that makes them more compact: the intense sun and the dry, dry air and soil. Boscobel in particular I wish would grow a little more and show the long elegant stems I see on other people's bushes. Evelyn and Bishop's Castle do grow long canes but they are more the exception to how roses seem to grow here. The soil here is very very low in nitrogen and high in phosphorus and potassium so that might have something to do with it. Abe can be huge in some of the photos I've seen, but in my yard I can't get my own-root to be much more than a couple feet tall. After the first flush any more growth is about 2 leaves long and then there is a flower bud which ends the growth. I tried watering more and giving more nitrogen, but nothing happened. I even tried pampering a couple in pots. They weren't much better.

@CeresMer Zone 7a NJ Your garden looks great! I have all first year roses too and they looked similar to yours.

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)

Have either of you tried alfalfa tea on the roses? Maybe that would help with some new branching and create a bigger, "fuller" bush effect? I noticed that most of mine didn't seem to do much until I gave them some alfalfa tea, but even then, some just didn't want to grow as much as others. I'm hoping that they're just taking longer to grow roots through my dense soil, and will show some fuller growth next year, but maybe give the tea a try and see if that kickstarts some of them.

Alfalfa pellets were once a part of my planting and mulching routine. I would dig a couple of cups into the planting hole, and would put a couple cups under the mulch on established bushes. I haven’t done that in the last two years and I haven’t noticed much difference. But maybe that’s why my plants put out so many basals. Maybe I will try again this coming year and see what happens.

I've never used alfalfa anything, and I'm too lazy to make tea. I just stick with my compost/Tone/Lilly Miller regimen, and I have no complaints. There are many ways to deliver the same nutrients to roses. I do like a multipronged effort, just in case one method doesn't deliver all the nutrients necessary, plus compost is a soil amendment which I need to add every year. Our soil is not very good in the desert. Diane

Where and when does the manure fit in Diane?

I doubt the alfalfa would ever be a bad idea. Here, it is so dry in the Summer, that any dry fertilizer on top would not incorporate until the wet Winter season, so I agree with Diane on putting all the goodies on during the wet season. Unfortunately, that does leave a long stretch without supplements here. I did haul some fish fertilizer diluted around last Fall to a few roses and they enjoyed it. Another thing, is I could pick up a hose and water maybe monthly with it during extreme heat even though I have an emitter system going daily in the most extreme heat. If I did that, I could water in some top dressing dry organic products. Duh.

It has taken me a bit to catch on to the hot garden routine, because some hand watering with a hose could really help. I'd like the garden to be as natural for this area as possible, but then there is reality to deal with. Last Winter we had 10 less inches of water than the previous Winter, and on reflection, that is when I realized some roses were really in a death spiral like Evelyn and Star of the Republic. I did move those now and hope it wasn't too late.

Sheila, I think you're doing a beautiful job of adapting to a very different climate. All I have to do is see your photos to know that. I use a hose constantly for supplemental watering, in addition to the drip system and tiny supplemental sprinklers. Of course, the pots are hand watered daily, but I also need to get into the beds and hit the dry areas with the hose. I use manure the same way as compost, but mainly on non rose plants. I try to give all plants a little something extra. As far as the long dry season goes, I may use Miracle Gro fertilizer, applied with a sprayer on the hose end, in July. I've never noticed that it does much good. It's mainly to assuage my guilt over "neglecting" the spoiled babies. You're probably like me by now, constantly checking the monthly rainfall totals, if any, and the year end total precipitation against what the average inches should be. I watch the snow pack numbers, too, in winter. They are given in percentages of "normal" in each basin. Diane

Hey Sheila I have used fish fertilizer in a hose end sprayer. I have no patience for mixing up buckets of it. The hose works pretty well & makes me feel like I’m doing some good.

Yes, Diane, I am doing exactly what you are as far as measuring and recording precipitation. I've never used a hose end sprayer. I might stick with plain water and a plain hose to start. Some of my hottest driest areas are next to stucco walls. I don't want fertilizer sprayed on those. This all seems so obvious now, but it takes a while to get to know the new climate and areas in my yard. Irrigating will be easier when I get the netafim emitters on everything. The flags gave out too quickly.

I have used bagged composted manure around roses and ignored the filler plants. I can see I have a way to go with watering and fertilizing.

Stephanie mentioned watering roses extra by trees and I have had some trees explode in growth here once I started to water and they steal from roses. I need water to those roses extra too. I hope we get great rain this winter. I heard California may be dry again and I am hoping that is wrong for Ingrid's sake and all of California. They deserve a break.

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) im obviously being super impatient lol. It’s only year one, so the roses have just a couple of branches here and there. I also found out that my soil Is pretty much garbage. As I was changing some roses around I noticed how after two feet, there was no clay at all, but mostly sand? We are in a new development, so my guess is that is left overs construction stuff. It would explain why the tinny bands did much better than the grafted ones from DA. The DAs were planted much deeper and barely had any grow or buds. I dug some holes for next year and dumped some top soil on it, so maybe this will help the new roses going in next spring. I also need to find some fine pine needles to mix for the new roses. If they do better, I will dig the old ones out to fix the soil! also, I didn’t do much fertilizing since it was year one and I was afraid of burning the rose. next year is game on with the fertilizer! I been taking notes from @Diane Brakefield and other here!!

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR i have the contrary problem here! I almost lost a rose because of all the Rain. Lesson learned that I need to improve drainage.... I did move the rain spout away from the roses and that’s when some started doing better. I guess too much water is also a problem

@Bc _zone10b i was inspired by your design and did my own of the roses I have already and what I have coming this spring:

right side is the front bed And left side is most what I have coming for the side of the house to mix in my peony bed. Clearly I link the pinks! Now, if only they will flower like this for me!

CeresMer Zone 7a NJ Looks nice! I do a similar thing, but much less elegantly. I draw up a new one once or twice a year. I started out thinking that the space was so big that I put in groups of three. Then I realized that there are way more roses out there that I want to try than I have space for. But I didn't have the heart to get rid of the multiples.

I discovered when we removed the lawn in the backyard, that the entire backyard was made up of fill sand, and in some areas the native caliche was a foot down and in other areas more than a few feet. After years of lawn on top nearly sterile sand, you couldn't call it "soil" at all. I dug in a lot of organic material, but it didn't seem to be noticeable at all. I remember planting my new roses with two sacks of steer manure in each planting hole, and putting another sack of steer manure under the mulch around each bush in the spring. I'd buy 20 sacks of steer manure in the fall and use them in the spring. Like Diane's conditions, the biggest problem here is lack of water, and the sand makes it much worse. The water runs through the sand and then drains away down the hard slope underneath the sand.

I like the tiny bands also. But I've learned that those tiny ones really need to grow up a little in pots before I plant them out. I've tossed a few plants that now I wish I had given them more of a chance.

Ceres - you're probably not too, too hot where you are...so hopefully the blooms will not bleach out. If they stay like how you posted...wow!!! It will be glorious!!! Can't wait!!

Noseometer - I love your collection!! Beautiful!!

@CeresMer Zone 7a NJ Looks beautiful! We like similar colors :) I think the warm/cool pinks mixed in with some of the whites and yellows you have are going to look amazing. Will be great to see how our new roses do in the spring.

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) Thanks for sharing, I love your color plan. It's interesting to see the subtleties in color when you put the pictures next to each other. I realized how much variety one group like "pink" can have after putting the graphic together. Will be great to see all the colors in person.

Haha you guys are good with your graphic color layouts. I usually just download pics on my phone for reference then put them in my ghetto dollar store garden notebook and sketch it crudely where stuff should go LoL!!

Heres how I did my veggie raised beds this year..I do the same thing for my roses so when the bad chickens steal the name tags, I still know where they are!

Ghetto $1 garden notebook

garden layout.

Where I moved roses into the veggie garden in front of the gate lol

I have two Abe Darbys that I got on fortuniana at a local nusery that I've had in 3 gal pots for a year! They dont seem to mind but I need to get them in the ground. I'm expanding my veggie garden this spring. I may stick them in there due to lack of sunny space elsewhere. Does anyone think they would be tacky with SoF, Poseidon, and Quicksilver which are much more blue toned?

I am gonna move Bathsheba which is just in a pot next to Poseidon on the left side of the arch in the crude bottom sketch (up there ^) just not sure where yet. I guess I need to get another Bathsheba and another arch too.

No Prob llama!! LOL!!

Tacky? Nothing clashes in nature, Sultry. I have been forced into all kinds of combos for lack of space, and the only bad one was PAoK next to Munstead Wood, and you know which one of those two had to go. Otherwise, I think Abe would work about anywhere. What a veg garden you will have. I love the llama. My son in law's mother had a llama show up at her rural acreage years ago. After advertising "Lost Llama", no one claimed him. And so, Lonely the Llama has lived by himself in the pasture next to her house. He does love people. Lots of llamas are grown around this area, and are often used as pack animals. Diane

That so cool about the llama! Yes Ive known some llamas that spit on people lol. No way, their cud reeks!! 😅 A nice llama would be fun though. I do want Alpacas! Soon as we get to a bigger property, they are first on my list. They are smaller and generally nicer than llamas. Llamas are better goat guardians though.

Those were my veggie garden plans last spring.

I think the warm and cool tones will be pretty together Sultry. They'll enhance and showcase the subtleties of each other. I tried to think of my big plan that way, since I know I'm just not a fan of bold yellows (sorry Julia Child, but you are healthy!) or pure red roses (yet). I figured I might as well stick to whatever catches my eye, and arrange them from bold to muted going down my hill, and warm to cool going horizontal in the rows. I noticed that effect happened this year with my Jubilee Celebration and Carding Mill roses that are planted next to each other. I think the bold warm tones of CM actually enhanced the more purple pink tones of JC and it's hot pink colors (and vice versa). Either way, Abe looks like he'd be pretty anywhere :) Excited to try my first ones out next Spring. I love your notebook too, llamas are so cute and strange.

I think I will put the 2 Abe's in front of the new gate! We are expanding the veggie garden outwards and the old garden gate will become an arch.

Cant wait to see the expl0sion of roses you will have next spring!l/early summer! It will be glorious!

I actually have only ordered 2 roses this winter haha. 2 Raspberry Cream Twirls!

The little tree frogs adore that rose for some reason, so I had to get a few more!

The season is still young though and the DA catalog not out yet, HA!!! There are many more roses that need to be ordered :)

I have been focusing mainly on our farm animals this year and getting some raised veggie beds in. Next spring, I plan to be working on the rose beds and maybe getting more perennials. I have so many lovely goat berries (poo) to amend the flower beds with in the spring! You can put them right on the beds without having to compost..just like bunny berries!

We are putting in a bee hive or two in March. We have the bees ordered so I'm committed now lol. So we are working on getting that area ready now. It will be behind the greenhouse (the one that the Sky Vine recently swallowed lol).

Evelyn yesterday after the freeze..she's a little ruffled but her colors are pretty! Those pretty red leaves are from her neighbor, Olivia!

So pretty @sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish) 😍 I got her coming this spring!! So excited! How old is your Evelyn?

I have an older Evelyn (5yrs) that almost died and it is planted out in the back yard. I put it from the pot into the ground and it is doing well.

I got the one in the pic last year. I bought three of them from DA and one didnt make it, for some reason but these two are in a side-bed where they are spoiled with my morning coffee grounds, good sun, and rain water run off from the roof. They are quite the divas in my hot humid climate but well worth it.

Diane - cute story about your son-in-law's mother's llama!! Awwww :)

Sultry - I hope you get your alpacas!! Then we get to see alpaca pictures!! Cute! Bee hives!!! Oh wow!!! I've always thought of getting hives...never will though. LOL And more roses for tree frogs! Love this! Ooooh!!! What a gorgeous Evelyn!!

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish) -Beautiful Evelyn! I'm hoping I can get a few to try from DA within the next 20 years hah! I called and they said it's basically impossible to order them when they're released on the website because farmers buy her up in bulk the minute they're live. Hopefully they were exaggerating....

@Bc _zone10b i got it this year. Once DA opened for orders I snagged it right way. so you should be able to get it

Thanks @CeresMer Zone 7a NJ !

I'm hoping it's not as difficult as they make it sound. Kind of gave up on stressing over online plant buying after a couple of years of ebay bidding for rare plants. Would be nice to just see what everyone loves about her, but I'm still enamored with the austins I got this season. Hopefully they keep me that way until I can find Evelyn :)

I feel that Basheba looks amazing, I’m getting to put behind some hydrangeas that have been performing terrible (last year for them if they keep this performance 🤣). I hope she does well for me bc her blooms seems amazing & every one here loves her.

@CeresMer Zone 7a NJ I've only had my 2 Bathsheba for a year and I already ordered a couple more. Really beautiful flowers and healthy plants so far. I think you'll love her if you enjoy those colors.

Hopefully I'll find time to read this great thread properly,but I must say I love, love, love these pictures and am a huge fan of alpacas; they are so goofy looking and funny!

B zone, Ive heard the same thing about certain Rose Farms hoarding Evelyn. A few, I think, have their own grafters who graft roses for them but many do not. I think there should be a limit of how many roses can be ordered by one customer. I suppose the thugs would just find a way around it though but it might make a dent in some of the hoarding of certain varieties. David Austin needs to be loyal to the majority of consumers who have been loyal to them and not the greedy businesses trying to turn a buck.

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish) -Sultry, I agree on all those points. They shouldn't allow retailers (or farmers/whatever romanticized way of saying it) to purchase in the same system as customers. There should be something similar to wholesale accounts for those buyers, so they don't wipe out the same product year after year and make it impossible for regular customers. Especially since this seems to be a yearly thing, and not like they update their roses monthly and can just tell us to check next month.

Farmers or bulk buyers (let's say buyers of 5+ of the same rose) should only be allowed to order in advance so that their number can be planned, grown, and cleared by the company a season ahead of time, which would leave a safe number of Evelyn's each season available to regular customers. If they're not able to divide their sales system that way, then smaller rose retailers should still be allowed to sell the rose to cover demand. Or maybe I'll just have to take out my big heat pads/grow lights and figure out how to root some roses myself ;)

So people that are selling roses/cut roses for their livelihood should be less important customers than us as hobby growers? I'm guessing DA sells far fewer to "regular customers" than they do wholesale, and we are also a huge pain in their ass - wholesale buyers aren't calling complaining about a broken cane, etc.

Not less important. Would just be helpful if DA is able to figure out how to separate buyers in some way like I was saying. Might help balance out the numbers needed/available.

Exactly! I just dont think any one buyer/entity should get to purchase everything so no one else can order. So having a separate wholesale section and growing enough for everybody makes sensw. Keep everyone happy!