I would recommend Gertrude over Jacques Cartier. Saw Gertrude at Chicago Botanical Garden (loamy soil) .. it had MORE BLOOMS than leaves. Can't even find Jacques Cartier at that rose park, they get rid of any rose that don't put out a huge display of blooms. I grew Jacques Cartier as own-root in partial shade and it gave a few tiny blooms even in perfect potting soil, then I moved to my clay and it was still stingy ... NOT IMPRESSIVE in scent, so I gave Jacques Cartier away. Then I plant Crown Princess Mag. in the SAME SPOT, and CPM gives me 40 times more blooms than Jacques Cartier.

From your list I have Munstead Wood, P.C.de Monaco, and Bolero as own-roots. All 3 are fantastic in the vase with amazing scents. Right now Nov. 12 in zone 5, I have 3 buds on Munstead Wood and one bloom in the vase that delight me with its scent for 4+ days. P.C. de Monaco's scent took away the pain of my Mom dying last year, and the pain of siblings bickering over her death. Its scent is a temporary transport to heaven.

Grace says she needs cold hardiness to zone 5A. I really have no business giving advice to someone in that zone, and I don't spray or need to. But for me, Munstead is the best and one of Austin's best. Diane

As far as I know Rose de Rescht is not healthy in any zone or climate. It has one beautiful flush in the spring and is straight down hill after that. You may get one or two blooms the rest of the season on a very ugly disease riddled plant.

@strawchicago z5 So sorry to hear about your loss and the pain that came with it. I am glad that PCdM is a rose that has that much meaning to you :) All others who have commented on her so far have only great things to say so I think she is a winner! Hopefully she will do okay in some shade. Perhaps the old roses I should avoid until I get a prime spot for them, I was hoping I could make some great tea with Jacques Cartier. So glad you mentioned how stingy it was in the shade. I would so love to grow MW, but am unsure if it will be able to survive in a pot in my zone 5A. If i were planting in the ground, it'd be different. How does it overwinter for you? Do you protect it at all?

@Diane Brakefield Thank you so much for your input, Diane! I've heard only fantastic things about MW (aside from those thorns of course).

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) That picture of Moonlight in Paris is just amazing! I think you were the reason why I put that rose in my wishlist in the first place haha! So sad that Gertrude has prone to BS, I think a lot of older Austins are. Looks like for tea, I'll have to go with MW and find a way to protect it in the winter. Springs are very cold and wet where I am. I'm glad you mentioned that Madame Anisette and Earth Angel do not have good repeat. I had no idea! I am leaning more towards Bolero for a great white as strawchicago also recommended it!

@seil zone 6b MI Such a shame! That was one of the old roses I was hoping I could grow for tea. Thank you for steering me away from it. I'd much rather select a healthy variety.

So far, seems like people like Munstead Wood, Princess Charlene de Monaco, and Bolero :)

Bolero doesn't make stems long enough for me to cut in my climate. But maybe it will in yours, or you are okay with very short stems (i.e. an inch or two). Maybe someone will chime in who grows this in your climate.

Lichfield Angel doesn't have much fragrance. It has some fragrance, just not much and not a remarkable fragrance in the ones that I've sniffed.

My Munstead Wood wouldn't make enough buds to make much rosebud tea, and would sacrifice the blooms. My DA roses tend to make small buds even if the flowers are sizable. I wonder if there is something that makes large sprays of buds for your to harvest?

Princess Charlene de Monaco, will give long stems for cutting, stays very fragrant in the vase, and lasts a good amount of time. To make those long stems it makes a rather gangly, climber-type rose though and you describe that you want a compact/bushy/upright plant. It's tough to have both long cutting stems and a compact plant though.

IMHO you'd be hard-pressed to find a rose as beautiful as BenT's Moonlight in Paris!

I agree with strawchicago - Jacques Cartier is stingy and I personally think the fragrance is not that impressive - cute small blooms though on a fairly large plant and so it’s getting the shovel (again) next spring. Gertrude Jekyll has one of my favorite rose fragrance and so I do put up with her BS and she is quite hardy. Bolero and Munstead Wood are definitely worth splurging on. Emily Bronte was new this year and has a wonderful fragrance, was very healthy, but only bloomed in late spring this year and so she is too new to recommend. I’m very much looking forward to growing (and smelling) Eustacia Vye and Gabriel Oak!

Rose de Rescht is healthy here and really attractive. I'm not sure I have a great photo.

Oh, Sheila, your photos are so beautiful--the roses, the setting they bloom in. (Dr, am I sick with envy?). I think I'd sit all day and look at these scenes if I gardened in such a beautiful place. And Rose de Rescht is rich and luscious looking. I want to step into those photos, believe me. (Totally off topic--I posted your cucumber sandwich recipe on the seasonal thread a few days ago). Diane

Ben - oh my goodness!!! Your Moonlight in Paris is unbelievable!!!! Swoon!!!!

Sheila - I love your pictures...so many roses on really impressive bushes!!!

@Rose Sniffer

"I am looking for:

fragrance, shade tolerance, and a more compact/bushy/upright habit as it will need to stay healthy and manageable in 20 gallon grow bags. Zone 5A."

Please clarify this statement. Are you saying that you will be growing your roses outdoors in 20 gallon "bags", in Zone 5a? I used to garden in a zone 5b and there's no way container-grown roses would survive a winter in that climate without providing serious protection to the roots of that rose. But perhaps I am misinterpreting your intentions. Can you please explain how you plan to protect the roots of the roses during the coldest months?

Grace: I stored several band-size roses (3 to 4 inch. root ball) in my UNHEATED & dark garage in zone 5 winter and they survived winter if I water them once a week in a well-drained pot, elevated on a table so they don't sit on cold floor. I learned that tip from rosarian Karl Bapst in zone 5a. If it gets -10 to -20 below zero then I cover these tiny roses with a thick thermal blanket while stored inside a dark & unheated garage.

Per your question on Munstead Wood: It's very hardy as 6th-year own-root. I don't winter protect it. It requires the least water among Austin roses. I plant all my own roots 4 to 6 inch. below ground since we get strong wind here with wind-chill factor of -30 F in my zone 5 winter.

Jacques Cartier is one of my best roses, very hardy with good repeat bloom. It's 4 feet tall and almost as wide. It gets a few hours of shade in the morning. It has an exquisite Damask fragrance.

Gertrude Jekyll receives a few hours of afternoon shade, also hardy and very fragrant.

Munstead Wood is hardy, but compact, not more than 2 feet tall. It has a sweet Old Rose fragrance with a fruity note.

Lady Emma Hamilton is not as hardy as other Austins, but worth growing for the fragrance alone which is similar to tangerine with a note of rose perfume. I would plant this in full sun.

I've never grown roses in containers, don't now how these would do in grow bags...

I grow The Mayflower, (Susan Williams Ellis is a sport of TM.) It's very fragrant, grows in a few hours of morning shade.

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) I am 5A so now I am concerned about the stem length of Bolero. My gripe about Desdemona was exactly that, I don't usually ever have stems long or strong enough to cut. I guess I am still gonna be on the lookout for a good white!

I think that generally, Austins do much better in my climate. I used to be in zone 9b and 7a and the roses were never fragrant enough for me. But when I grew the same varieties here, in 5a they are all fragrant and abundant in bloom! It could also just be the great NY soil! Meanwhile, I guess I am also still on the lookout for a damask-scented rose that will be okay in partial shade! So glad to hear another who loves PCdM! I am looking for a more upright bush, if not compact. I'll have to look up pictures of the bush for this one to be sure. She sounds pretty healthy so I am excited for this one. Yes, Ben's picture of Moonlight in Paris is just amazing!!

@Dave5bWY Thank you for your input! Sounds like Jacques Cartier is a no-go. I am growing more excited for MW. From all of the English Gardeners on youtube, they seem to be ecstatic about Emily Bronte, Eustacia Vye, and Gabriel Oak! If Emily Bronte was already fragrant for you in the first year, I suspect she will only grow better :) How would you describe the scent so far?

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Such beautiful pictures!! Oh my goodness, you must take care of them so well. They look so flawless. Compared to MW and Rose de Rechst, which do you recommend?

@User Yes, 20 gallon grow bags and outside. They are located between a dug, trench-like area (about 3 feet) between the pavement and the house. It is the perfect spot to place the plants! I have collected all the fallen leaves to surround and stuff up the area between the pots and the empty spaces. I've mulched heavily around the base of the graft, but we get lots of snow every winter. Someone here on Houzz has mentioned that snow is actually a great insulator. The roses are sitting against the building and it is south-facing. Last winter, they did fine when they were put in the ground (some 1st years), graft above the ground, with no protection at all. If it makes a difference, I have only David Austin roses at the moment.

@strawchicago z5 The wind chill is what makes the cold feel so awful! My climate is basically the same temperature-wise. We do get strong winds, but only strong enough to do damage once in a blue moon. There was a tornado ripping through town this past summer and it ripped a few canes off. The Roses were fine, though and I think all the snow built up probably protects them from those gusts in the winter. My roses will be sunken below ground level so I hope that will help, as well. Thank you for letting me know! Your advice makes me want to get an own-root since it was successful for you in a very similar winter!

Grace: The stem of Bolero is longer when grown in partial shade. My own-root Bolero in full-sun had shorter stem (cluster-blooming), but my Bolero in partial shade has longer stem (one bloom per branch). Princess Charlene de Monaco is best as own-root to keep the size smaller. All three own-roots: Bolero, PCdM, and Munstead Wood are my favorites for the vase. In below thread, I post plenty of bouquets using Bolero:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2134793/bouquets-of-no-spray-roses?click_id=9c7f52f92f5311eb81f904da0a24060d&cjevent=9c7f52f92f5311eb81f904da0a24060d&m_refid=us-ptr-mpl-cj-13782669-9069228-5250933

@strawchicago z5 My my! That is interesting that I'd end up liking the sound of a rose's growth in some shade instead of full sun. I was just about to give up on a good white. Good tip about own root Princess Charlene. omg, those pictures of Sonia Rykiel have got me over the moon! I'm unable to grow her here, unfortunately. They all gotta survive outside hahaha. Your no spray blooms are gorgeous!

If you have only three feet between the house and pavement, Jacques Cartier might be too wide for that location, but Gertrude Jekyll would work.

I forgot to mention The Alnwick Rose, hardy with a fantastic fragrance of Old Rose and a sweet candy like fruity scent. It has a compact, upright habit. It's not on your list, but I thought I'd mention it as it has excellent fragrance, grows in a few hours of afternoon shade.

Memorial Day is a great rose with reliable repeat bloom, 2 1/2 feet tall, very fragrant and good for a cutting garden. It gets morning shade.

Jacques Cartier, fragrance like Damask perfume, 3-4 feet wide with a dense, bushy habit, grows in a few hours of morning shade

Munstead Wood

The Alnwick Rose

Gertrude Jekyll

@Krista_5NY Lovely pictures, especially Alnwick! I actually have about 5 feet of width, but the depth is 3 feet. I've need enough room to be able to walk along one side. So 3-4ft of width is the maximum I can handle. I'm sure I can prune a few canes here and there, but definitely can't have big spreaders! Your Jacques Cartier is so healthy! Morning shade as in they get full sun aside from a few hours of morning shade? I'd love to be able to grow mine like that!

Jacques Cartier has a few hours of morning shade and in late afternoon about one hour of dappled shade, the rest of the time in full sun. It's a good rose for difficult growing conditions/ cold zones.

The other roses have some shade in morning or afternoon, but not both, the rest of the day in full sun.

I don't spray and they get blackspot in the summer time. I use organic fertilizer and a small amount of David Austin Rose food.

Grace, MW would win because of constant bloom. RdeR reblooms, but not as much as MW.

Hi Grace,

Gertrude Jekyll is great for rose jam, so I'm sure it would work for rose tea. The fragrance is wonderful. My one concern is that in grow bags (rather than in the ground) these plants might not bloom profusely enough for you to get enough blooms to make tea. I find that my few roses in the ground yield enough blooms for me to do things with them, and my roses in containers tend to be more stingy. But maybe with 20 gallon grow bags things could be different. Why not just plant them in the trench rather than keeping them in bags?

PS I agree with the folks who are endorsing Munstead Wood. It is definitely a wonderfully fragrant rose!

@Krista_5NY blackspot is pretty unavoidable for an older Austin I grow: Queen of Sweden. I might just skip Jacques Cartier since it's also pretty wide like you said. I have my eyes set on Gertrude and Munstead, leaning towards Munstead :)

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Thank you! That makes me very happy as I think MW is also smaller

@K S 7b Little Rock (formerly of Seattle) That's so awesome to hear! Yes, I am definitely not expecting the vigor and health they showed when they were in the ground! I have never grown roses for a prolonged period in any pots before. Hopefully, the 20 gallons will be enough space along with the air pruning. So glad you like both MW and Gertrude. I am actually renting and the trench is there to separate the building from the pavement (it's on a steep hill so the pavement is high on that side). My landlord gave me the ok to put my roses there which made me happy :) I was told it was fine if I planted the roses, but I'd most likely have to leave them if I move and I don't want to deal with any legal issues if I hit something I'm not supposed to while digging!

Krista - Holy Cats!!!! Your Jacques Cartier bush is ginormous and exquisitely flowered!!! I have this bush...but it's new...flowers all summer, but usually only 2 or 3 at a time. Whereas yours is WOWZA!!! And your bowl of The Alnwick Rose blooms is really pretty!!

A question about Moonlight in Paris:

This rose is listed as zone 5 hardy on Edmund's but everywhere else it is listed it is not as hardy. Is this possible to be hardy to zone 5? I'm guessing I'll still have to protect and baby it in the winter in case it all dies back?

Not sure if Memorial Day is reliably hardy. Help-me-find says 7b. It is wonderfully fragrant though.

What about Sidonie? https://www.garten-gefluester.ch/2012/10/03/rose-sidonie/
People seem to really like it. High Country Roses claims it has the most reliable repeat and continuous bloom of all the Damask Perpetuals. Its charming rather small pink flowers open from crimson buds and if it near a path could be really appreciated. Below is a picture from a German nursery. Note: as not uncommon with pink damasks it has rather large leaves and a tendency to want to grow outward. But will probably be stunted if confined to a pot.

What a wonderful potted rose!!! Sidonie looks fabulous!!!

Rosecanadian. I couldn't resist the photo. But it should be remembered that this is a rose that has been forced and fussed over in optimum conditions in a greenhouse. (Also, as V. Sackville West once noted, young plants often look the best.) Gardening is an ephemeral art that has a lot in common with theater. Here is the link : https://www.rosenschule.de/index.php/rosen/product/rosa-sidonie

You have so many on your list that I’m expecting this Spring so I have to say you‘ve got excellent taste. Lol!

I’m a newbie this past summer to roses so I can’t comment on overall longevity and health but I did a LOT of research when choosing my roses. I’m, personally, I big fan of Marchesa Boccella/Jacques Cartier and bought her this past late summer. I got two beautiful blooms out of her. They smell incredible and open very quickly. They don’t last a particularly long time though. I’m also a very big fan of Munstead Wood and planted 2 own-root this past summer with a grafted one ordered for Spring.

I really wanted Lady Emma Hamilton but all my research turned up that she just doesn’t do all that great in cold zones. Bolero and Earth Angel smell incredible! I’d give Bolero the edge though...she really pumps out blooms. Her form is more along my taste also. Short stems though so maybe not the best for cutting? Earth Angel has the longer stems.

I have PCdM and Emily Brontë coming this Spring, as well as (hopefully!) Eustacia Vye. I’m really looking forward to those. PCdM has rave reviews from so many enthusiasts...I can’t imagine anyone would regret planting her.

My Bolero, from FGL. She was so tiny when I planted her in late August. Still had large blooms!

Krista, I missed that you grew The Mayflower. There was one at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden, but for some reason I forgot to smell it. I'd like to know more about it.

I am also intrigued by its white sport, Susan Williams Ellis, which for some reason appeals to me more, especially in the glamour shots in the David Austin catalog, where it is shown surrounded by gray- foliaged, herbal-type plants.

Long stems are not found very much in the older roses, incidentally. Some older roses do have them, however, such as Reine Victoria, one of the loveliest of all. Long stems were a feature of the hybrid teas, which were grown specifically for the cutting industry.

A rose bush fragrant enough to use for jam-making, with lasting flowers, stems long enough for cutting, disease resistance, continuous blooming, mannerly habit, super cold hardy, not too prickly -- that's a tall order. I'm sure the breeders are trying hard to achieve it, though.

Monarda, that Sidonie really looks and sounds wonderful.

I have not grown it. That is, I am growing one in a container that I bought as a house gift for a friend who lives in a colder zone than I do --- but who knows, I just might try to keep it -- if I can find the room. It hasn't grown much yet, since it is a new own-root going into its first winter.

Monarda, The Mayflower has a strong sweet fragrance similar to Gertrude Jekyll. The blooms are charming, somewhat smaller in size than other Austins. It's hardy, with light repeat bloom, 2-3 feet tall.

Sydonie is about 2 feet tall here, with scattered repeat bloom. It has a beautiful Damask fragrance. It's hardy, but has not grown large like my other Damask Perpetuals.

Memorial Day is three years old, seems more vigorous and hardy than other Hybrid Teas, but I've not grown it long enough to fully evaluate this. Regan Nursery lists it for zones 5-9.

The Mayflower

Monarda - well said! And the link really shows gorgeous pictures of Sidonie!!

Oooh, thanks for the pics of the Mayflower. Memorial Day didn't survive many years for my cousin on L.I. (I planted it for her) but who knows? Could have been voles.

@monarda_gw those pictures of Sidonie are so lovely!! I did consider it, but determined that it would not do well in my climate. Help me find lists it as susceptible to black spot and my area gray and wet springs. Please let us know how yours grows! If I had a greenhouse, I’d grow it. It is seriously so beautiful!

@LauraLG Z5b-NwPA
Laura, your Bolero is like a little Angel and I am so happy we have similar taste! I love to research, as well. There is so much fun in learning and finding perfect ones for our garden. It feels like we are selecting the perfect jewels to adorn our jewelry with, except the jewels are our roses. Happy that MB/Jacques Cartier is growing well for you. I wish there was an old Rose that would do ok in part shade! But in my climate and location, I don’t want to risk it. Would love to hear your experience on the difference between grafted and own-root Munstead Wood! I am excited about USA’s David Austin 2021 releases, they both seem like excellent roses!

Here's Robin Lane Fox on growing roses in pots: https://www.ft.com/content/d0a79338-a5b6-11ea-92e2-cbd9b7e28ee6

Grafted-on-Dr.Huey Munstead Wood was a blackspot fest at nearby rose park (alkaline clay). They got rid of all 3 in 3rd year. But my own-root Munstead Wood is 100% healthy in its 6th-year. The rose park has full-sun & better soil than mine.