Second bar sink in island??

3 years ago

We are renovating our kitchen in a house we just bought, and we are keeping the current layout but redoing everything from head to toe. The previous owners have a small bar sink at the island. The sink is almost directly across from a large sink at the window.

We can either leave the sink, and be able to use it when prepping at the island, or remove it and have a big giant clean island counter.

I sort of think it is overkill, since we can easily turn around 3 ft behind us to the main sink, but my husband thinks it could be nice to not have to carry cuttings and such to another surface to dispose of. (Both sinks would have a disposal if we did it)

Featured Answer

Jennifer Hogan

3 years ago

Fori probably has the best suggestion. When we buy a house we imagine how we will live in the house and we make all kinds of plans about what we want to do to make our home work with the way we imagined it working. Then we live in a home and things we never noticed become glaringly obvious and bother us every time we enter a specific room and other things we thought wouldn't work end up working beautifully.

I would cook for 2 weeks with the sink covered and then remove the cover and cook for 2 weeks with the sink and see how often you really use the sink, how necessary is it?

I grew up in a family where we typically had 14+ at the dinner table and meals were prepared by the girls (4+ My mom) in a 10 x 12 galley kitchen. We never needed 2 sinks or more space to prepare dinners. When we baked we needed to use the table because there wasn't enough counter space for 15 dozen cookies to be cooled and decorated or for 10 loaves of bread to be kneaded and shaped.

With the holidays approaching and COVID in full swing this just made me quite nostalgic. I was just thinking how my mom would leave the kitchen at 10 minutes before 5, leaving the girls in charge of the kitchen while she ran back to her bedroom, fixed her hair and makeup and put on a nice dress so she would look nice for my father's arrival. She had already sent each of us to brush our hair and clean up before dinner. Dad would come in the house at 5:00 on the nose - even if he had to drive around the block before coming in. Mom and dad are long since gone, but we still gather at one of my sister's homes for the holiday dinners. That won't happen this year. It will be the second time in the past 59 years that I won't be having Christmas dinner with family.

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Comments (10)

herbflavor
3 years ago
I’m not in the camp of large uninterrupted island. Personally like the idea of facing out towards people and having sink handy that way, as so much goes on around sink. I would probably place large single sink at island and have the second sink a bit to left of the white porcelain one you show. When removing something from fridge it might be better if range were a bit further to the right. Don’t you think that landing right of fridge is critical ?
Buehl
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I think it would be helpful if you read the Kitchen Design Guidelines/Best Practices. From the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread:
- Aisles Widths, Seating Overhangs, etc.: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500771/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc
- Work Zones, What Are They?: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500762/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they
- Storage Planning: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500787/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage
- Ice.Water.Stone.Fire, a humorous discussion of Kitchen design: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first
I would keep an open mind regarding the layout, it could be improved. (E.g., the minimum recommended aisle width for a one-person work aisle is 42"; it's 48" for more than one person working on the aisle. Aisle widths are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest -- appliance handles, counter overhangs, etc.; they are not measured to/from cabinets as cabinet measurements only include the boxes, not the doors/drawer fronts or counter overhangs. Your aisle width of 36" is too narrow.)

Your island looks to be about 5' deep, I would reduce it to 41.5" deep to get more aisle width b/w the sink and island. (41.5" = 1.5" counter overhang on the front + 24"D base cabs + 1" decorative door/end panel on the backs of the cabinets + 15" seating overhang)

The minimum recommended seating overhang for counter-height seating is 15".

If the refrigerator is on the back wall behind the island, that aisle should be 48" to 54", depending on whether that's a busy path through the Kitchen.

Regarding whether or not to have a PREP sink in the island, that depends on the entire layout, which I cannot see. BTW...get a PREP sink, not a bar sink. Bar sinks are barely big enough to empty a glass of water. Prep sinks are big enough to actually work in...they should be at least 15" x 15" and at least 7" deep (deeper is better). If there's enough room, I recommend a sink that fits in a 21" sink base, but one that fits in an 18" sink base will work as well. You should have at least 12" for landing space on one side of the sink (and to mitigate splashing water on the floor) and 36" or more on the other side of the sink (42" or more would be better).

Where is the refrigerator? Is that a pantry cabinet to the left of the range?
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Riverspots, your points are very good. The materials really do match the area. I'm from the east coast and am always amazed how many stone houses are in Austin. In DC only the expensive homes are stone. I do think the levels 'look' neat, but I trip all the time. I know, that is a personal problem :) I actually fell down the stairs into the eating area and broke two toes when we first moved in. My thinking in eliminating the levels, which may be the most expensive part, was that in addition to me liking it more, it would make the house more appealing to more potential buyers in an older neighborhood ??? Perhaps I'm biased due to my own clutzyness. I definitely don't need the second island so if it isn't the right match for this house, I could put a moveable big table on the wall in between the range and the dinning room for my purposes. I will definitely ponder what you are saying. I do like the big open space but I've been told we need to fill it up because our house seems very cold. Thank you so much for the candid opinion Jsweenc, Yes, the house will still be plenty contemporary, just not artsy funky contemporary. You asked what it is, aside from the contemporary style, that doesn't work for me. I thought it easiest to list the things I hate and definitely want to change, and things that aren't so bad but if I'm changing the other things, it would make sense to consider. Things I hate: I have bad knees so the stone floor is KILLING me. The textured stone is also next to impossible to clean. There is dirt in those crevices left from the day the builders left. The levels. I hate going down two sets of stairs to eat. If I had bar stools, I'd still have to go down one step to eat. I hate having to go down a step and then around the peninsula to clean it and then back up the step to get back into the kitchen. I hate having a double sink w/o being able to fit a big pot on either side. I realize that is a completely personal thing and many people love them. Things that I would live with but in a perfect world would be different: I normally like dark countertops but the way the light is in this house you can see every spec of dust from a mile away. So, I'd love light countertops. I'm sick of our contemporary cabinets but I do appreciate how nice they are and I could definitely live with them even though I'd prefer not to. When going to kitchen from bedroom hallway, it would be nice not having to hug the right wall so I don't have to go down the stairs and then back up the stair. Would love not having the stair from the kitchen to the living room. If I didn't have the other stairs, it probably wouldn't bother me. We live out in the country so the pantry is too small for bulk shopping. The house is ginormous, but there are very few closets, not even a linen closet (strange, I know). The current room behind the kitchen (which will be the new pantry and laundry/utility room) is an office with no windows and a tiny bathroom. The current laundry room is in the main hallway which is visible from the entrance into the house. The peninsula, while big, is on kinda far from the fridge, range, or pantry to make it really useful as a prep area so it's almost wasted space. I'm not sure what is ideal, but I know I would like my working areas to be on one side of the island so I didn't have to always be walking around it. Ideally, I wouldn't have to walk around the island to access the sink/dishwasher. I think we all agree on the fate of the big thingy around the stove ;)
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My prep sink is used for prepping and cooking...from washing veggies & fruit to draining pasta to washing up utensils if needed. I love that I don't have to compete w/dirty dishes in the sink OR dirty dishes sitting around the sink getting in the way of prepping. Having a separate prep sink also allows you to separate the Cleanup Zone from the Prep & Cooking Zones...a much more functional setup. No competing for sink space w/someone cleaning up while you're trying to prep and cook. No DW in the way. It increases the functionality of a kitchen so much and gives you multi-functional space when needed (like when you have several people working in the kitchen at one time.) My prep sink is 15-3/4" square and is fine for most things. Occasionally, I wish it were a couple of inches wider, but not that often. However, like RHome410, if I ever do another kitchen I will aim for a prep sink a bit wider...21" to 24". I'll still stick w/my double-bowl sink, though. (Maybe make that wider as well if there's room.) Most people who find their prep sinks "useless" for much more than an "ice bucket" at parties or as a "drinking fountain" either have a sink that's too small (width/depth/deep) OR it's not located properly. I'm not saying that your particular layout is "bad", but I do think you are going to run into the "competing" issues at the main/cleanup sink...competing for floor space (especially since it's so close to a corner), competing for counterspace w/dirty dishes, and competing for sink space with, again, dirty dishes. If you plan on using just one side for dirty dishes and the other for prepping and only putting dirty dishes on the counter on the DW side of the sink...well, good luck with that! I tried that in my old 1-sink kitchen and it never worked! Maybe your family is very disciplined & will follow your plans, but mine family is not! Plus, w/only 25.5" on the DW side, it's not much if you have substantial overflow of dirty dishes (or if you have to take the dirty dishes out of the sink so you can prep in the sink). If you've already lived with this and know that it works for your family, great! Bottom line...this is your kitchen and you should design it for your family and how your family works. We just offer you our experiences as well as mentioning the experiences others have reported.
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Hi everyone, thanks for your comments. Will try to respond to everything here: 1) the current design has sink and dishwasher by the window and a bar sink in the island so there is already plumbing in both spaces. The reason i wanted the primary sink and d/w moved to the island is because my back would be to the rest of the room if working at sink / dishwasher and that counter area. If i worked at the island i would then have to lug everything to the far wall to wash dishes / use dw. Moreover, the island has a beautiful view onto the deck with sliding glass doors, so it would be nice to have that as the primary work space. 2) here is the original layout; our architect / designer has done sketches based on my asking him to move a few things, demolish the old island and the old peninsula to open up the space and add a modern waterfall island with space for four bar stools and move the primary sink and dishwasher to the new island. I also asked him to add a pull out pantry. 3) We do not want to demo everything and start over because of costs. So while I completely agree on drawers rather than cabinets, we are salvaging as much as we can of the existing cabinets and layout and then optimizing from there. 4) We have a 100 bottle wine fridge in our current home; that was the basis for thinking two wine fridges. But i agree re. having two d/w, no doubt useful and something to think about. 5) We actually spend a lot of time at the sink / dishwasher area using it as we prep and plate. 6) We have the sink in the island in our current home and in our previous home and like it that way. I guess my main question was whether to keep a second sink by the window, it sounds like the vote is yes! Pictures of old kitchen 1) glass doors to deck, wine fridge and old island 2) old (primary) sink under window 3) old peninsula (removed to open up kitchen); want to add pantry to half of this width (not as wide as in design) Details of proposed layout with pull out pantry
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clydem
3 years ago
I have almost the same kitchen layout. My most favorite thing in our kitchen is the 2nd sink in the island. It makes it a 2 person kitchen which if you have a large family or do a lot of entertaining is very useful. We also put the trash compactor next to it so when your preparing a salad or veggies you can dispose of the cuttings right off the counter.
emilyam819
3 years ago
Where is the fridge? That matters when considering prep sink placement.
Robbin Capers
3 years ago
I'd want to have a sink next to my main prep area, but I'd also want that to be between the sink and the stove. If you're happier prepping on the island then a sink there makes sense.
Fori
3 years ago
You're keeping the same layout. Why not LIVE with it a bit and see if you LIKE the sink in the island?
PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
3 years ago
Where is the fridge ? A prep sink or main needs to b in close proximity to the fridge and ideally without crossing in fron of the range to get there. Of course you need trasj where ever you prep or do dishes and FYI disposals should be illegal every where so IMO not an issue. I will however say 2 sinks layed out like that would not be very functional. cabinets sitting on the counter are IMO a waste of counter space for no purpose . I do agree that renovating a kitchen without having lived with the layout,you are not planning on changing, is a risky idea.
marilynmontano
3 years ago
We have a similar layout and LOVE having the second sink in the island. Make it big enough to wash your largest pan and definitely include a garbage disposal so both sinks are fully functional. I also agree about leaving a wide aisle between the island and the cabinet wall. Ours is 49” and that’s worked out well - wide enough for two people to work at either side but close enough to be efficient ‘spinning’ to grab something from fridge or oven. If dishwasher will open into this space, make sure you can walk past it even when open.
giantauthenticfan
2 years ago
Can I ask what your final choices were for your apron front sink, as well as your prep sink?? How did it turn out so far?? Thank you.

Second bar sink in island??

Jennifer Hogan

Comments (10)

herbflavor

Buehl

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