For the shaded area, on the wall, I would plant Alba Semi Plena, and Felicite Parmentier, from vintagegardens.com or Hortico.com (mail order in September) with six hours of full sun you have a wide choice of roses in our latitude, From roguevalleyroses.com and a.r.e. on the wall with trellising support Crepescule on the wall Marachel Niel on the wall, Spray Cecille Brunner, on the wall Mme. Alfred Carriere Reve d'Or or grown with lower canes removed as a self supporting bush. from pickeringnurseries.com in septermber Celine Forestier grown as a bush or climber M.A.C. Alistair Stlella Gray for a climbing rose or stripped of lower canes and grown as a 6' tall shrub. pickeringnurseries.com For deep and rich fragrance. vintagegardens.com Mme. Boll Musk scent. Reverend Seidel R. moschata I'd plant several of these in a row where the breeze with carry the sweet musk scent for several yards away from the bush. Horico.com Arrilaga , huge spiral centered silvery pink cabbage shaped roses, good rebloom, needs full sun for those large blooms and gets some p.m. nearer the coast. Baronne Prevost very fragrant and disease resistant, here. Autumn Damask' roguevalleyroses.com fragrant and very pretty. Grandmothers Hat, a great reliable rose, Morcom park in Oakland has several of these planted in a row, grown 5' tall, as well as a climbing rose. fragrant and disease resistant. annies annuals may have some if rogue valley has sold out. vintagegardens has already sold out of all the Tea roses, but you could buy these from roguevalley roses.com or a.r.e.: Mrs. B.R. Cant , pink, fragrant and long blooming season, it blooms from March through early December in my garden. Westside Road Cream Tea' white and scented, 4' by 4' 1/2' tall, very resistant to p.m. a row of these with Grandmothers Hat in back would be my idea of fragrant beauty. , i Cornelia' from hortico.com they sell it as a Musk rose, it is my favorite rose bred by Pemberton, small blossoms in profusion, scented of musk and rose. Blush Noisette' Mermaid (hortico.com a climbing rose that I've espaliered on my back fence to keep it in line, spicy fragrant lemon yellow rose with beautiful red filiments. Red and fragrant Hybrid Tea rosebushes, disease resistant in my no spray gardens: Souvenir du Claudius DeNoyal Crimson Glory Papa Meilland , not floriferous but the cupped roses are huge goblets filled with perfume, when fed well. In our latitude all the China, Old Garden Tea and Noisette rose are shade tolerant, for roses this means they still need 6 hours of full sun, or 4 hours of full sun and 4 hours of filtered sun the most fragrant Tea I've ever smelled is 'Anna Olivier' it is very disease resistant even on the coast by the highway near Monteray. alba class roses need fewer hours of sun: 4 to 5 will serve in this latitude, all Alba roses bloom for 3 to 4 weeks in one bloom season each year, but they are very pretty plants even when out of bloom. I have grown all the roses listed above except for Reverend Seidel' in my no spray gardens in Oakland, and Richmond, Califonria. Roses to avoid in no-spray gardens in or near San Francisco, Ca or wherever conditoins favor the spread of powdery mildew: Georgetown Tea Ducher' both defoliated in my garden from p.m. and this greatly lessened bloom production. Feed the soil first before you think of fertilzing. I love Orchard Hardwares "Rose Soil" I used to have to mix c. 10 different items and micronutriets with alfalfa meal and bone meal etc. but its all in the rose soil. I use 1/2 bag for each hole for a regular sized rosebush (4 to 5' tall) to a full bag for climbers, and large Tea rosebushes, be sure and mix native soil in with it, or you will get the bathtub effect. 50% to 60% rose soil depending on if you have the heavy California clay that I do. a shovel full of well rotted manure, horse is very good, organic steer manure is also fine 25% to 33% of native soil, the soil from the hole you dug. well rotted compost to bring it up to 100% just f.y.i. I'd do a ph test before you begin, roses like slightly acid soil, do another test after you mix the soil blend and plant the first rosebush. Good luck, Luxrosa

Hi, and welcome. There are some bay area GWers that visit the CA forums that can give you more specific local information. I'm in the southern part of the state. Generally a mature garden has had the plant material in the ground for a long enough amount of time (often measured in multiple decades) for the plants to be well established and near their maximum expected size, or at the latter years of their lifespan. Life spans vary greatly. The species matters--some trees are old and ready to die at 20, others remain strong for hundreds of years, for example. The nuance of speech, and more information about what is in the garden and how old it might be, would help to determine the true meaning of what they were saying. By referring to your garden as mature, they could be admiring the stately specimens that were planted long ago, and hoping like crazy you don't tear the beautiful, historic plantings out. A nicely designed mature garden can be a valuable asset. Or they could be really commenting on how those plants are so large and overgrown for the location in which they were planted, that the roots are lifting the walk and the branches are crowding the eaves, the mature trees are shading out the sun-loving shrubs underneath, and that they should be pruned or removed. Or they could be thinking the plants are at the end of their life span, getting diseased and are in danger of falling over in a storm. Growingwise, a mature planting will have an established root system and proven it's ability to take the growing conditions where it is located. New plantings require a more careful eye to how they are coping with the growing conditions while they are getting established. Younger plants are at a stage of their life when they have a quicker growth rate and thus require more pruning and training to help them mature into fine, mature plants. If a mature garden has been neglected for a long time, there may be some catch-up maintenance needed. But, generally speaking, a mature garden grows at a much slower rate and does not need as much time to maintain with pruning, weeding, etc. Too much fertilizer can be far worse than none. The nutritional needs of plants depends upon a lot of factors, including the plant species and your soil. Your plants may not need any fertilizing at all. Is there something about the color of the leaves of your plants that indicates there may be a deficiency? If so, it is better to get a soil analysis, or determine the specific deficiency that might need correcting, rather than just indiscriminately fertilizing. In fact, I have had some plants begin to show evidence of new deficiencies with a discoloration of their leaves only after fertilizing with an all-purpose fertilizer, because it threw the balance of soil nutrients out of whack. Finding a knowledgeable gardener is the tricky thing. In my area, the landscape maintenance field is awash with "gardeners" that don't know proper gardening techniques; topping, improper shrub pruning/hedging, and a lack of knowledge concerning fertilizing and pest and disease control is the norm. And sadly, most homeowners don't know the harm the maintenance crew is doing, because they see the same "look" all over town. Photographs of how they maintain their current maintenance contracts could be very telling. Some photographs of your garden would also help the forum give you better information about your particular garden.

Jkom, I did know about the stickyball-less variety. You must have missed that in my earlier post where I said I had one at my previous home but just couldn't remember the name. The 'Rotundiloba' variety must have been what I had since it had the more rounded shape on the tips of the leaves versus the more pointed ends. It still had a fair amount of color but perhaps not as colored as the standard type. I have heard that if you are gardening in the northern more colder zones that the standard variety doesn't develop any or fewer of the sticky balls. Don't know if that is true or not. Perhaps someone growing it in the colder regions would know. Forgot to mention earlier that I also have a small gingko tree and its foliage is brilliant as well. Mine is supposed to be the male variety and I certainly hope so as I don't want the smelly fruit that develops on the female tree! LOL

Question 1 - I was really blown away by how deep and big the taproot is growing on these trees. It's like most of the energy is going to create this big root. It's thicker than the trunks in every case, and the roots are easily twice to sometimes 3x as long as the seedling itself. So on on of them, I cut back the taproot a little bit... I took about a half an inch. I had read Al mentioning that slowly cutting back a taproot over time can help spur the tree to grow more roots higher up. I hope I didn't take it out of context. The first day the lowest leaf of that seedling, which has started to go brown on the rim, became pale and collapsed on one side of the leaf. Then yesterday it went dry. Today there has been no further progress of the leaf's collapse and no further signs of stress. The seedling seems strong... Was I wrong to try and trim it back just a little bit? Or did I do alright? Is this seedling out of the woods for now do you think? Young plants are nearly all dynamic mass, and as such, have a very strong "will to live". If your plant is currently doing well, there is no reason it will take a turn unless something cultural forces a change in course. Bonsai practitioners have learned that lifting seedlings as soon as the first set of true leaves emerge and removing the seed radicle immediately below the root to shoot transition zone and treating the top as a cutting eliminated taproot issues entirely in most plants. In stubborn plants with a hard tendency toward vertical roots, you'll need to regularly remove all first order roots (attached to main stem) growing downward from the root to shoot transition zone as well as all second order roots growing up or down off the first order roots. Question 2 - related to question 1, regarding the other seedling I root pruned a little. This one I took a little more off of because of root rot. I know I had to take it off, and I also took off a bit of taproot for this one too. The seedling itself seems fine. The uppermost leaf - which is fairly new and thin yet - went limp the first day, but has become stronger and greener these last two days. I know I had to take off the bad roots, but I was worried I went too far. I'm hoping I'm seeing indications that I didn't? Only way to tell is by putting a waiting period behind you during which the plant retains its turgidity throughout the daylight hours. Stomata close at night and slow water loss, so unhealthy plants have opportunity to recover from low internal water pressure and wilting. No wilt during the day is a good indication to bet on full recovery. Question 3 - When I was done, I investigated the 5 'dead' seedlings. Two of them looked like some of Al's bare-root pictures. The main part of the taproot was healthy, seemed alive, and had small alive roots still growing from it. but the end of the root was truncated in mush, much of which fell off into the soil. I washed them as clean as I could in a mist spray and cut off the mushy end to clean root. Then I potted those in 5:1:1 too. I'm hoping against hope that I might be able to save them. The top id dead back to the twiggy stump... Any thoughts if they might come back? Anything special I might do for them to give them the best shot - for instance a special fertilizer or watering strategy? Withhold fertilizer until the plant recovers. DAMP or MOIST are the operative words. If the fungal infection has gummed up the plumbing such that a vascular connection between roots and shoots isn't in the offing, it's a goner. If the infection isn't systemic, the possibility of retaining viability is still on the table. What kills cuttings is the inability to make that plumbing connection due to rot, or the cutting having an inadequate energy reserve. If the plant/cutting/seedling runs out of reserve energy while it still a net user of energy instead of a net producer of energy, it's over. 4: I have 5 I have not yet repotted. They seem to be okay... though 3 aren't doing much of anything, they're just existing and may have some first sign of browning on lowest leaves, but I might be looking too hard too... One is finishing it's fall flush of leaves, and one is start starting it's fall flush... I'm not sure if I should repot them so close to winter or if I should let them be until spring, since they seem okay right now. I especially am not sure I should mess with the one putting out new leaves. But on the other hand, what if I really am seeing some warning signs and some suddenly start taking a down turn in the next week or month? Wouldn't it be better to do it early, now, rather than later? The only reason I re-potted the ones I did was because I was sure they wouldn't make it through winter... I am not sure on these ones. If they were your plants, what would you do? A dearth of mobile nutrients, over-watering, root congestion, soil compaction, can all lead to loss of lower leaves. I'll ask you to spare me from having to do the research by telling me if these plants would normally enter a predictive dormancy during the fall to winter transition? If yes, then waiot until spring but guard against over-watering. If no, repot only if you suspect strongly that the plants will no longer be viable come late spring (June). 5: Fungus gnats. =( I manage to get rid of them for a while, but they always come back. Of course, I was always using compost mixes, particularly organic ones, and they're usually lousy with them no matter how much a brand claims they pasteurize/sterilize for pests. Do non-mineral soil media mixes have the same ability to attract and support these and other soil-borne pests? If yes, which ones to watch for? If you don't already have a good understanding of what constitutes the comparative degrees of container media (as in unusable, practically unusable, just plain poor, ok, better, and the variations of better from 'sort of better' to 'really a whole lot better'), making that a priority will almost certainly propel your advancement farther/faster than anything else you might apply yourself to in the near term. If you need the info that can tie soils up into a neat little conceptualization, I'll be really glad to help, but I think trying to do it in a thread that covers so many topics isn't the best format. Are you familiar with and understand the concept discussed here? Which brings my follow-up: If it can support pests that spent part or all of their life cycle in soil, then it should be able to support their predators too, right? I prefer to combat pests with their predators, like nematodes, predatory mites, aphid lions, etc. Would this be doable if needed? How about we work toward providing a home for roots that doesn't provide creature comforts? In the immediate, mosquito dunks and a restrained hand on the watering can are potential remedies. 6: For the future of these little babies of mine, what would a good strategy be for keeping them happy growing in a container? You'll find an outline here that will provide a plan for maintaining woody material in containers and in good health indefinitely. I know I need to keep them smaller than if they were in the landscape, and that means eventually removing the taproot. I also understand that taproot removal usually starts after a year. But these trees don't actually seem to have much besides taproot... smaller roots branch off of it, and a few have some smaller roots that come from the trunk matrix but not most from what I've seen. Would the best bet be to gradually prune the tap root back over a few years in an attempt to get the trees to put out more roots higher up? Or should I go for broke and just cut it way back and defoliate? Or is it possible that the poor media I have been growing in so far as not encouraged growth at the higher and mid root range and drove the roots downwards looking for air? I'm sorry I haven't taken any pictures to share to give you a better idea. If I end up re-potting any of the others, I will take some. I think I covered these questions above, but if not, ask again. Al