What do you all think about the latest plan? Any critical changes or things we are overlooking? :) Is it an improvement over the prior plans?

I’d still reduce the size of the master bath; it’s almost as big as the adjacent bedroom! But I like the hallway and galley kitchen. Move the stove so it’s not directly across from the sink. Put microwave near fridge.

Traffic patterns are still bad in the latest plan.

@apple_pie_order - Do you prefer a) central long hallway connecting front and back of house b) master bed and bedroom 2 connected with bedroom 3 as office space. c) something else? Trying to work within these limitations, primarily the narrow width of the home!

@calidesign I agree- really debating plan B with the latest plan - difference if of course hallway, and yes we don't expect this to be our forever home, perhaps next 4-6 years, no kids but we hope one on the way soon. Don't just want to build for ourselves completely though, also for re-sale or rental value.

The latest plan looks pretty good, but with that BR and hall configuration, you don't need the extra door into the BR from the entryway - I would make that a solid wall. You also don't need the extra half bath in a home this size, as guests would have access to the hallway bath. That makes your front entry much more open and inviting, and I don't think the extra bath would help much with resale. You don't want to open your front door directly into a bathroom, or have it right next to the kitchen/dining. You can remove it completely for a more open space, or change it to a walking closet/storage area accessible from the BR or dining area.

@calidesign Thanks for those thoughts - we sort of thought of the door going into the bedroom closest to the entry as sort of an office - hence the entry there. Would that change your thoughts about it at all?

Secondly, since the hallway full bath isn't accessible via the front portion of the house, and guests would have to go around to the right, "private" portion of the house to get there, we added the powder ... I agree, the tradeoff is between powder and larger entry ... entry is still 8 feet something long and about 6 feet wide with powder there, so it isn't too cramped. I agree about the concern with the powder opening up to entry (not a super private affair!).

Open to your or anyone else's feedback! We hope to send everything over to engineering pretty soon!

How much time do you spend in the kitchen? I cook a lot, and I would hate to have a main pathway through the kitchen. If you only have infants (i.e. pre-walking), it doesn't matter as much, but as soon as they can run it will be dangerous when you are draining spaghetti etc... If you don't cook a lot, then it likely won't bother you much.

Moving everything, adding space, all new electrical and plumbing, seismic retrofitting, and bringing all the past year’s hidden sins and decay up to code will make a teardown look like a bargain.

@celadon - add lead paint remediation and asbestos remediation.

@Celadon @apple_pie_order Teardown and re-build of just 1000 sq feet is at least 350k.

5-6 contractors looking at current plan (moving, adding space, new electrical, etc) are quoting half of that. these are accurate quotes, with specific $$$s allotted, elevations, roof lines, engineering, etc taken into account.

To built a new 1600 like we are planning from teardown is +500k. Our rennovations about 1/3 of that and get us to 1600+ sq ft.

No lead paint and asbestos in the house - already tested.

@JuneKnow It will cost more than $1M to do a 500 sq foot addition and existing renovation? Really? So our 1300 sq ft house will cost us >$1M? $800 per square foot renovation costs? We aren't gold-tiling the home. Even if we build new - going to cost $800 per sq ft? That, to me, my friend, sounds like "on crack". I'm assuming you just didn't do the math carefully.

@JuneKnow Thanks, this is informative.

Unfortunately, it doesn't align with any of the quotes I have received, including one from a 30+ year family friend and trusted person who has re-built homes in Orange County for the last 10+ years.

Of course, EVERYONE could be low-balling to try to get the job, but even as I pushed people to give me the highest possible price things could end up as, I didn't get numbers close to what you're mentioning and even the cost vs value PDF mentions. So, it should be interesting!

If I have to keep most of the existing walls and just remodel from there and have a smaller edition, we are open to that too.

Hi All,

We have an almost finalized floorplan with a backup in competition.

I'm sure @JuneKnow and others may think we are pricing ourselves out, but we're gonna try to move forward.

These plans are sort of two different layouts and philosophies.

We are aiming for a small family, and potentially some guests stays, as well as re-sale and rental potential in the next 5-7 years.

Plan A (original) is on left, and an alternative (B) is on the right.

Thoughts on which direction to head? Specific thoughts on either plan? @isabellagracepan @calidesign @emilyam819 @kayozzy @cpartist @apple_pie_order @auntthelma I would CHERISH any feedback you can provide since this is such a big decision!!

Thanks All!!

In your new plan B I think the living areas and kitchen are much better, and those are the areas you'll spend the most time in. I would make a few changes to plan B BR's and bathrooms. Remove the tub from the the master bath to give you more countertop space, or if you want a tub then combine it with the shower. Move bedroom 2's doorway to the other end of the room so it is closer to the bathroom. Move the walkway from the living areas into the hallway further down, just past the kitchen island and lined up with the exterior door across from it. Then you can put BR 3's door in the corner and eliminate the oddball in the bathroom. That way you aren't looking straight into the bathroom toilet from the kitchen, and the hallway is not as long in either direction. You can shorten the entry closet to move the BR closet away from the new doorway.

^ I agree. And good catch on the master bath; the numbers don’t add up for two sinks as drawn.

@calidesign very helpful suggestions!

I've been tinkering and have added some more details here, and maybe a solution for the awkward 2nd bathroom.

@calidesign, I didn't quite catch or understand moving the walkway form the living areas into the hallway further down ... move the hallway opening to bed 3 and bath closer down to foyer / entry?

The latest plan here doesn't have that, but it does solve the bathroom 2 weirdness.

I was trying to say that the doorway opening to the hall, that is now from the kitchen across from the bathroom, should be moved further up along the wall. So you have a solid wall in the kitchen with the opening instead between the 2nd BR doorway and the washer/dryer. So from the living area you would look at the solid wall on the other side of the hallway rather than looking into a bathroom. Another option would be removing more of that wall creating the hallway, keeping it open between the current starting point near the kitchen all the way to the master bedroom doorway. That would give you less privacy for the 2 bedrooms and bathroom, but the space you gain in the kitchen and extra room near the washer/dryer may be worth it.

@calidesign Thanks I now understand!!

do you think this would make it too far of a trip for guests to get to the bathroom if they need to use it?

That was my only concern hence putting the hallway more near to the second bathroom.

It would be basically centered in the middle of the house, so not far from anything, and also gives guests more privacy in the bathroom rather than at an open doorway.

In your latest plan, there is no reason the wd closet can’t open into the hallway instead of the bedroom.

also, I like how you are directing traffic through the kitchen away from the work areas.

I think the hallway that goes all the way to the master bedroom wastes too much space. I would make the middle bedroom bigger (takes over the hallway space), move the closet and W/D to the main bathroom side of the bedroom, have the w/d closer face the hallway and enter the master bedroom from the very far corner of the living room.

Another benefit is that it makes the master and guest rooms more private.

@calidesign - YES, I am going to put the opening there, right across from the opening on the side of the house. I love that idea!

@auntthelma - Absolutely - I think I drew it wrong, W/D needs to open up to hall!

@lmckuin - I'm with you but torn - for having little kids, getting rid of a hallway where they can come straight to us or vice-versa, could this be a tradeoff? We wanted a hallway that connects the bedrooms for privacy too, so bedrooms don't just open up to main space. What do you think?

ALL - where is the best place to put openings? Please see below!

Open to any other comments too as new edition posted here:

ALSO! Should I close off that kitchen a bit (the opening on the left) and make it an L with an island? Or does the two openings from the dining to the back of the house make sense?

What I like: Makes you see back of entire house from dining in multiple points and opens things up.

What I dislike: Does take away critical space from the kitchen.

I like the two openings to the dining room.
I really don’t like the long hall to and in the master. What is the window situation at the far end of the bedroom? Is there a view that would be obstructed if you put the bathroom at that end? I know that generally one wants the bedroom to have windows on two walls, but the hallway would bug me.

@emilyam819 - Great point. My wife always wanted a bay window in the master, so I put the bathroom where I've left it. I think it's an innovative idea to put it at the end of the master, probably about 12 wide by 6-7 feet deep.

Left side of the master originally we were thinking doors that existed to a shared patio between master and back of living. Right side of master would be two windows above the sides of the bed (bed is right side of master with pillows against right side master wall).

I agree the long hallway in the master is odd ... but we'd potentially lose the bay window if we put the bathroom in the back ... Hmm ...

Also Is the bathroom (the second bathroom that guests will use) too far from guest access now? in the most recent plan ... ?

I think I'm officially obsessed.

Made an updated layout with a powder / laundry room combo. Thoughts??

Please show the current bearing walls on the current plan.

I might make the 2 bedrooms more equal or comparable. Narrow bed 3 a bit and widen 2. I would do a tub/shower combo in the master bath. Or just a shower. I don’t see it being easy to get into or clean the tub as drawn now.

I don’t think you need pocket doors on the hall bath or bedroom 3. might do a single sink in the hall bath too and reverse the vanity and toilet.

I don’t mind the long hall. I see why it was done

at closet near the entry is nice to have

No on the third bathroom. Tiny house. You don’t need three bathrooms.

Regarding where to access the bedroom hallway, consider how you live.

The answer is either b or c. Not a. You are adding a hallway for bedroom privacy. A gives all the master br privacy away.

Do you watch tv after the kids are in bed? Then doorway in the dining room. Do you want to listen for the kids after they go to bed? Then b, doorway off the kitchen/ family room. I’m leaning toward b as that is the best access to the bathroom. Not only for guests, but for the family during the day.

A more radical suggestion might be to divide the house horizontally rather than vertically. Make bedroom 3 and surrounds the living space, current dining and kitchen remain in same or similar location. current living becomes a bedroom. Master and other bath remain. With reconfiguration.

@roccouple - that's sort of how it already is, but the current living room (shown below) doesn't get a lot of light and we like the inside/outside lifestyle possibility.

@apple_pie_order Please see below.

@auntthelma thank you for the suggestion. Just something I threw in to see if it was possible. Do you think the current second bathroom is a) accessible enough if we have guests b) enough is we have guests?

@JuneKnow true that. we'll be doing some more pricing this week.

I wouldn't take space from the BR to add the half bath in a house this small. Use that for the closet space for the bedroom. A 3 BR 2 bath house is much more functional than a 2 BR 2 1/2 bath with basically an office, at least for most people. The 2nd bathroom is perfectly accessible for guests.

How about this iteration? Two openings?

Where are the windows? You need to account for bed and dresser placement. I wouldn't have two doors in a bedroom. If you use this model you can close off the BR2 door by the closet, but that doesn't leave a BR close to the master, and likely a home this size would have young children. Where is the depth for your refrigerator? I think you need to have an architect help you with plans that account for appliances, the correct sizing in bathrooms, etc. and to take into account where the current walls and plumbing are so you end up with a plan that can meet codes and your budget.

I think your plan is really coming along. Here are a few ideas:

-In the kitchen, I think the path between the island should be narrower than 6'6". You will probably be going between the island and cabinet side frequently, and it is so much nicer to have one step rather than a big hike (ask me how I know...).

- I think three bathrooms are not needed in a small house like this one. Two big bathrooms are MUCH better with children than three small ones. Kids will inevitably all pile into the bathroom at once, and a big bathroom is lovely when you are getting ready for bed.

- If you get rid of the third bedroom, you can increase the width of the second bedroom. Nine feet is VERY narrow. Our previous home had a nine foot room and it felt quite awkward to be in (we ended up using it as an office, and even that felt uncomfortably small). I think 10' should be a minimum width for you to consider. That is still pretty small.

- If you can, try to put windows on two sides of all of your primary rooms. It increases your enjoyment of being in the rooms a lot!

Best of luck in your project!

@isabellagracepan Yes great suggestion, we will try to narrow the 6'6 gap between islands.

@isabellagracepan and @calidesign the thought with the powder room was 1. It fits so why not? 2. The 2nd bath seemed far from guests (down a 11-13' hallway) and would likely be shared between bed 2 and 3, hence perhaps a bit messy or personal.

If we can make beds 2 and 3 10 x 10 min we might pull off a powder there.

The latest thing I'm playing around with is the kitchen layout. I like the two openings but wanted to get a feel for one opening.

Also played around with hallway. Thoughts on either? @auntthelma @lmckuin @emilyam819

i like your new plan except I really don’t think that master bath layout is feasible. it will be tough to

get into the bath, even harder to clean the bath. I might shrink that bath a bit and add the space to bedroom 2.

some Above are saying they’d prefer 2 large bedrooms. I think that’s legitimate But personally id rather have 3 bedrooms even if 2 are small, unless no kids. Even with 1 kid the spare room will be useful as office or playroom

one thing is to understand what a 9x10 room really is like. We had one for our master (no closet either!!) for years. It’s very tight. A queen bed fits but not with space on each side. However for kids and twin beds it will be fine but not a lot of extra space. One bed one dresser maybe a small desk. You might mock one up with painters tape on the floor to get an idea.

I agree, the master bathroom isn’t workable. Give up the tub, add a few feet to the master bedroom. If you also give up the powder room, the small bedroom can be normal sized.

The kitchen layout is better with the L-shape, but I’m afraid the dining room would feel cut off and be rarely used.

Also, forget the 48” double sink. Too much storage space lost, and no need for two sinks in a one-person-at-a-time bathroom.

Why are you married to that third bathroom? Two is a luxury in a house this size.

@roccouple @emilyam819 In this photo below, here's what I'm thinking with the master bath layout, similar to our layout with double vanity, tub, and shower very near the tub. What do you think?

Does it feel like this won't work given our space? I thought it was tight too until I visualized it. Here's another similar shot...

@emilyam819 @roccouple @auntthelma I put the powder in there because, to not have it in there, here's what I "gain":

A. Slight smaller house to add space to master and bed 2 (bed 2 can become 9 x 12 or 9 x 13 or 9 x 14 ... Master bed can become 12 x 15 ... is that a game changer from 9 x 10 bed 2 and "worth giving up a combined powder / laundry for?

B. If powder is eliminated straight up, master bed portion of the house becomes "shorter" and doesn't jut out as much and I don't want to lose the shared patio portion of the master bed exit with the living room patio. (Does that make sense?).

Just trying to maximize for re-sale value- what do you think of this approach?

There is something not to scale about your master bath drawing? it isn’t nearly 8’6” tall, if you assume it’s 9’ wide.

Other rooms are to scale as far as I can tell. also the shower looks less than 6’ long. It’s hard to be certain if you can get in the bath with the drawing not to scale. If you really have 8’6” you are probably ok. But looks closer to 7’ as drawn?

are you using an architect to do drawings?

@roccouple You're right, the master bath is not to scale.

We are working with an architect, sending him little mockups like these and he's putting it into plans. I'll share his next set of plans.

WE LISTENED and went 3/2! The latest plan reflects that. Again not perfectly to scale.

Thoughts?

Happy Thanksgiving! Thankful for a quick vaccine (hopefully??).

And thankful for this awesome Houzz community!

That is a tidy, workable plan.