1. I saw this once in a movie with a haunted house.

2. Unpleasant spaces to be in.

3. Barn doors belong in a barn or haunted house.

4. If the offices ever become bedrooms anytime in the future, they are poorly located.

5. Poor relationship of spaces.

Can you start over?

Mark - Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I'm curious:

Re #2 - The reading nook is designed to be exactly the right size for a particular day bed and bookcases against the two interior walls. So you lie on the day bed, look out the window and read a book. It's not designed for a chair, etc. Does that change your opinion about it being an unpleasant space? what would cause that to be unpleasant? And what makes the toilet room unpleasant? I know that some people don't favor having a separate room, but it's a non-negotiable for me.

Re the closet and barn door - different needs, and tastes. :-)

Re 5 - I'll work on that, but I'm not sure what poor relationship of spaces means.

Not arguing with you - I know this is your expertise. Just looking to understand!

Thanks again,

Pamela

Pamela, fyi Mark HATES enclosed toilet rooms. I think we had a poll once and around 75% liked them, so you aren't in the minority!

A couple things I'm wondering:

• what kind of climate do you have? In a place with winter, not having a foyer separate from the living area would be a major disadvantage.
• where is the laundry? Is it convenient to the bedroom where most of the laundry starts and ends?
• your dining area appears to be right in the middle of a major traffic crossroads. Even without formal halls, you need to have walking space that is about the width of a hall. I'd suggest you take a marker and "walk" through your home. Think how you'd get a coffee when you're in your office; how you'd change the laundry load when you're in the kitchen; how you'd answer the front door; the best path to bring the groceries in; etc.
• why are you constraining your reading nook to be smaller than the space could be? I don't understand the purpose of the L-shaped wall next to the kitchen.
• your master bedroom is a prime corner space. That means you can have windows on 2 walls-- not something to be wasted! I'd try to configure the space so that the head of the bed was on an internal wall.

Am I understanding the drawing correctly -- If you park your car in the garage, then exit through the pedestrian door, you end up on the front porch and then have to go through the front door or go through the mud room to get into the house? Seems very odd to me.

Also, the closet that is accessed from your office as well as from the hallway doesn't seem like it would be very useful. It appears to be only 2' deep, which makes it a reach-in closet from both sets of doors. Is that what you wanted?

Hubs and I are both on the list for liking a separate toilet room. And you have very smartly indicated a pocket door, rather than a door that opens into the "gas chamber" (as Mark calls them).

"in a movie with a haunted house."

The reason garages never done that way because most people do not want some concave exterior spaces where a stranger can be hiding. And even to get there one would have to walk in the narrow space between office and the garage. It is also encourages garage break-ins.

I assume that green line is a projection of the roof plane(s) showing the overhangs? Something funky about it. Like what will support that 7' overhang (top left corner), why is it not locked to a garage wall on the right?...

13'6" is OK.

How you are planning to get into the shower

Reading nook is odd. Linen closet next to toilet as well

Double doors connected to the wall in Pamelas office.

FYI HomeDesigner/ChiefArchitect:

1. Turn off that nasty grid. It is almost totally worthless.

2. Get rid of any fractions: Your contractor is not going to build 82' 1 13/16" foundation.

3. You have number of missing dimensions

4. Your 12' closet missing the wall in the middle, should be two closets

5. You want closets to be 2'-2" min (12'-10" x 2' is not the best)

6. We do not do exterior dimensions in that way...

Jennifer said

• where is the laundry? Is it convenient to the bedroom where most of the laundry starts and ends?

The washer and dryer are in the master closet.

• your master bedroom is a prime corner space. That means you can have windows on 2 walls-- not something to be wasted! I'd try to configure the space so that the head of the bed was on an internal wall.

The master bedroom can still have windows on that other outside wall. A window above each bedside table, as well as a high horizontal window above the bed.

• your master bedroom is a prime corner space. That means you can have windows on 2 walls-- not something to be wasted!

...but if that second outside wall of the master bedroom faces west?

@Pamela: I kind of dig this house; it’s so different from what the “masses” are building. Can you tell us about the land and post the elevations?

Get the cooktop off the island. Why is your dining table smooshed up against the wall?

cooktop off the island

+1 The Island cooktops are PITA.

Pull the front door and foyer out into the courtyard. That way, your entry from the garage and from the front door can co-incide, with a guest closet (wherever you are, guests will have a jacket, or an umbrella, or a cap, or something), and with your own drop zone.

Why is Robert’s office through the “mudorom”? If you rename it “Pamela’s office“, is it still okay?

Does your office closet flow into another closet? I visited a house with something similar, and found it very odd, as well as an inefficient use of closet space.

I just love a screened porch. We have one, I just wish it were better integrated with the house. How do you plan to use yours?

You have two lovely offices, but I wonder if you need a space to “be“, to watch a program or read a book or work on a project that is not work?

1. The space labeled "Closet" looks like a two foot wide secret passage with double doors at each end along the long walls. The drawing does not show enough information to explain how this space will be used.

2. I do not care for small confined spaces, especially ones where methane gas is produced. And as someone mentioned in the other discussion, using the toilet by someone in a wheelchair would be impossible (I know, I was confined to a wheelchair for three months).

3. Barn doors occupy wall space where art can be and furniture can be placed. They offer a poor barrier for sound and light and odors.

4. Because of the spatial relationships of the spaces, you will have a very narrow market when it is for sale..

5. Walking out of the garage onto the front porch then walking past the front door to enter into the house through the mud room is a poor sequence of motion that I try to avoid in configuring spaces.

"Why is Robert’s office through the “mudroom”?"

Robert is the butler.

Pamela- let me start by giving you a lot of credit for opening yourselves to this forum for input. I have glanced at this layout and have several suggestions. I would restart your plan with a simpler rectangular frame and redesign the interiors. There is a good bit of wasted space. Are you working with a licensed architect? It would help to see the topography of the property so we can see the rationale for the number of outer framing ins and outs. Those increase cost of building usually. The key issues I have are: poor entry design and transportation from garage into home. If that is changed, it could improve the interior flow. Even with narrow and long footprint, this could be improved quite a bit. Are you open to redesign?

Agreed - you are brave.

I too hate barn doors for the reasons Mark mentioned.

I also hate island cooktops. Venting is either obtrusive or inadequate (or often both).

What is climate and orientation? Won't the front porch area be very shaded and thus a moldy/mildewy/flowerless place to come through?

Is there a special reason to separate the garage this way?

I would work harder to make the bedroom's (I mean offices) have a better shot at being bedrooms. There would seem to me no reason why proper bedrooms can't be offices and bedrooms will enhance resale and future livability. Hard to gauge resale on a 1 bedroom house. And while the offices can be used as bedrooms, they are compromised. One with a window wall to entrance direction (street?) and the other that requires crossing public areas to go to the bathroom and zero noise barrier to the master.

Lastly, the house will look unusual in each direction for various reasons. That might be okay but that is site dependent. I think everyone wants to have at least a face on a house. Even deep in the woods. I personally could get over it but certainly resale is an issue. When visitors come to the garage side, the house will be dominated by the snout garage.

David - Thank you for this. The reason that Robert's office is at the end of the house - he's a sound engineer and drummer. This is for sound isolation - and I think it could be sold as a 'mother in law or teenager's room' down the line - and we're planning on staying in this house for 10-20 years. There is no street - we're deep in the woods, the driveway will come down at an angle for 250 feet (and drop 40 feet from the road), and having his room close to the garage for loading/unloading gear is a plus. Front porch area WILL be shady - I intend to look at out a NC mountainside with a waterfall/small pond in front of the window walls.

I thank you for your answers, and I guess that's why it's custom!

Flo - Thank you for your kind and thoughtful comments. I'll be working with a draftsman, yes. I do expect that he'll give me lots of suggestions, and I wanted to make sure that I had all the input I might consider. I'm not afraid of starting again - I've redesigned this house many times. Other than the hallway (about 5% of total square footage) I'm not seeing a lot of wasted space... my experience in looking at other architect-designed plans is that they have huge entries, tiny bedrooms, etc... not at all panning all architects! Just saying that we have different values. I wanted 3 bedrooms all at 200+ sq ft, minimal hallways, AND 3 rooms looking out to a view area, which meant a long but narrow house, usually with big halls. All within 2100 sf.

Like any other view house in the mountains, it tends to be built long and narrow, having everything centered around the view. I did actually have more of a rectangle before, but that meant 1 window wall in each view room, and less interest.

I am very open to redesigns - just giving the rationale for everything! The lot slopes from front to back - significantly at first (drops 40 feet) then will drop about 12 feet over the width of the house including the porch. We'll work with the slope to produce the waterfalls/pond in the front (in front of the windows), and I'm trying to avoid a walk-out basement in the back and minimize crawl. I don't want stairs, period (aging in place a priority).

In answer to some other questions:

The dining table should be a banquette - didn't know how to indicate that.

Robert's office is isolated for sound reasons - will also have some additional sound proofing.

Again, my appreciation to everyone taking the time to reply!!

I also have a list of SO many things that I wanted the house to accomplish, and this one does that. I'll post it here in case this answers some questions...

Overall: 2000 sq ft minimum, 2300 maximum

House on grade in front - walk out to garden/water feature/distance views

3 BR over 200 sq ft

2 bath - 1 could have shower only

Powder room possible?

Great room w/kitchen/dining room

Screened in porch

2 car oversized garage

Views of landscaping/water features from GR, Pamela’s office, porch

Usage:

Master BR - 1 person can leave early and use MBath and MCloset without returning through MB proper

Laundry in MCloset

Separate toilet room in MBath

Tub & separate shower in MBath

Tub as a drop-in, with place to sit

Views through MBath from door

Master wing isolated from great room

Pamela’s office:

Window walls - Looks out to views

Glass door to exit to waterfall/pond area

Enormous closet to store video equipment that does not have closet doors all along a wall

Great room wing:

Great room centered on views

Fireplace

TV to the side or hidden

Kitchen set up for 2 to cook/prep

Banquette table for dining room

Preferred: cooktop in island, downdraft rather than vent

3rd BR (Robert’s office) has sound isolation, 2nd bath

Kitchen:

Prep area away from stove

Prep sink if possible near appliance garage

Wall oven

Countertop overhang of 10” for 2 stools

Drawer microwave in kitchen island

No hood or use downdraft

How big does the counter need to be to accommodate downdraft

Induction cooktop

Cook has a nice view

Oversized sink to hold pans (33” sink, single)

Mud room/drop zone from garage

pantry storage for kitchen (in mudroom, possibly)

Utility sink (could be in garage or pantry)

And bpath - re the screened porch - I practically LIVE out there all spring, summer, fall (Asheville, NC) - beautiful 3 seasons around. Comfy furniture and my ipad to browse Houzz!

I've had an island cooktop before and love it... I spend a lot more time cooking than washing things in a sink. Never understood why people want to stare at a wall while they cook, rather than staring out into a lovely room!

Many thanks to those who commented on the garage access - I moved the garage and it does open up the entry door and uncrunches the dining table...

From the information given, I don't think the house is as poor as others have indicated. For the best evaluation however, It's best to post the elevations as well as how the house sits on the property.

I still would be a little concerned about the deep recessed front door. What's that space going to feel like.....cavernous or welcoming?

Have you had washer and dryer in the closet before? I can't speak to the wisdom of that on a daily basis, but it will be odd for resale.

Does your site require the garage to be on the view side? Seems to me it might block some of the view. And, can you share why you do not want the garage to open right into the house?

Do you plan to have clients or partners come to your house?

Interesting that you cook a lot, have had a downdraft before, and find that acceptable. I suppose it depends on the type of cooking and tolerance for certain things. You may find that you can't technically do it anymore based on code. Certainly you can't reach recommended venting. That looks like 48 inches of gas cooktop. I am guessing that severely limits brand and gets total BTUs pretty high.

Wolf doesn't even make a 48 inch cooktop.

Every 48 inch they make is a range and their recs are above what any downdraft that commonly exists.

Just make sure you have your basis covered. Know that 600 CFM of downdraft is not the same as a real 600 CFM.

You seem to be neglecting the architect route when you are considering options.

I have my own sketch of my own NC mountain house. Mine has a view from the shower and a better one from the bathroom than you have. It is long and narrow but significantly more conventional than yours. Mine does not have a garage.....

David - this is my unfamiliarity with HD. I'm planning a 30" cooktop, maybe 36", and I'm open to a drop-down hood. (That's what I had in the last place with the island cooktop.) I apologize for showing you something that's inaccurate. Would love to see your sketch - is it in your profile?

Bpath - yes, I have had W/D in the master closet before, and it's WONDERFUL. Clothes actually stayed cleaner because I didn't have the resistance to carrying the laundry around the house. :-)

Re the garage - it makes sense to me to have it on the kitchen side, to bring in groceries. I could line it up with Robert's office, and move his windows - that makes the house MUCH longer. Is that what you would suggest? I could try an iteration. It does't currently block the view though, which is all focused in the 'landscaped area' part on the pic. There's only one way to look out of the screened porch - the other wall is the back wall of the garage, and I'm good with that.

And clients MAY come to the house... that's part of the reason for Robert's office being at that side.

Architectrunnerguy - I had the same concern. I moved the garage back in my most recent pic, but not sure where else to put it. Partly I put it next to the screened porch because those are both on slab, and the rest of the house is on a crawl space that gets deeper as you get to the back of the house (the bottom side in the pics). Trying to work with the topography, not against it.

I guess I wondered if Robert's studio and the garage could change places?

Bpath - gave it a try. The problem is the topography. The garage and screened porch are both on slab and on grade, and there will probably be a retaining wall built into the wall for both of them (top of the pic) - that's for the landscape architect to tell me. The rest of the house is on a crawl that gets deeper as you go towards the back of the house (bottom of the pic). As I tried to move the garage down to where Robert's office was - on paper it looks OK but not when you consider the grade... will still monkey with it but as soon as I move the garage down I'm unsure where to put the front door!

Well, naturally swapping them is a big deal layout- and design-wise, I don't even know if your site accommodates that change. I just wonder as a concept. Maybe Robert specifically doesn't want a view, maybe you want the garage on the other side from the kitchen and mudroom and through two exterior doors.

Where will you keep your cleaning supplies? If you add a basement, where will the stairs be?

I have had 2 homes with downdraft/island ranges. Those vents simply don't do the job. Just make your island deeper so you contain splatters etc. My current home has this and containing splashes is such a pain. The downdraft also draws the flame if you are going with gas, and a distorted flame causes all kinds of cooking problems. I would go with wider range in this case. 30" would be very cramped if you cook frequently. Could you consider Robert's office above garage? Then you could have a proper entry to the home. This would provide privacy and separation. A circular staircase could be access style? Just depends on your styling. You need closets inside "rooms" and exit window that a person can get through in case of fire to qualify as a "bedroom". I think you would do well to consult with a licensed architect. Draftspersons can "transcribe" what you are thinking, but they don't have all the knowledge and other experience and contacts that architects have especially for a challenging build site. You are doing a great job of thinking through things and making this your home. If it is your "forever" home, no problem, but if you have any thoughts about selling in say 5-10 years, you need some modifications to achieve a good resale property.

Flo - Thank you for your kind and thoughtful comments. I'll be working with a draftsman, yes. I do expect that he'll give me lots of suggestions, and I wanted to make sure that I had all the input I might consider. I'm not afraid of starting again - I've redesigned this house many times.

A draftsman will not give you lots of suggestions other than to make sure the spaces are to code. They will give you what you tell them. If I had listened to my draftsman, I would have wound up with a frankenstein house and I'm dealing with a flat lot. You're not.

A draftsman is NOT an architect. Don't conflate the two even if your draftsman calls him/herself a designer. They are not.

Unless you personally have an actual design background, I would suggest strongly you look into working with a licensed ARCHITECT who will help you create your vision. Someone who thinks in 3D which means creating the floor plan, the elevations and how the house will sit on the lot all at the same time. Good design is not putting tetris room boxes together, then slapping on a facade for the elevation and then plopping it on the site.

Architectrunnerguy posted here asking for the elevations. He is a talented architect who happens to also work remotely with clients. He would be my first choice if I were designing a house now.

I've had an island cooktop before and love it... I spend a lot more time cooking than washing things in a sink. Never understood why people want to stare at a wall while they cook, rather than staring out into a lovely room!

I think if you did a true evaluation of your cooking style, you'd find you spend the most time prepping your foods and only about 10% actually cooking the food. Your prep space should have the best view in reality and the best prep spaces are those next to a water source.

Why do you want your laundry IN your closet? Why not a separate laundry area adjacent to the master? This way you're not having to walk into the master bedroom then closet anytime you want to wash things like dish towels, or towels or bedding from the other rooms.