What is so simple for some is not quite as simple for others. I struggle with conversations in real life. A public display of conversation is marginally to majorly intimidating. Plus I'm just not that quick and witty as many of you are here and many of the comments go over my head unless I read and reread.

Sometimes I overcome that. Most times I just support you all and what you were doing from afar with likes and attention. Yes I totally get it we are all supposed to participate in order to be a contributing member but it's just like the introvert at home, there but much quieter, and you can't change the introvert's spots.

TBH, I don't always have the time to comment, esp. if I'm on my phone with its tiny keyboard.

And then there are times when what I'm thinking would not be helpful at all...

Yeonassky, interesting that you say you struggle with conversations in real life because I don't get that impression here at all.

You seem to be a relatively active member here.

Carol, I agree. Does it have to be said? Does it have to be said now? Does it have to be said by me?

Guilty as charged! I tend to lurk and like more than I comment, because most of the time I feel I don't have anything new to add. Maybe I'll change that.

I just don't understand all the angst on an online forum! I haven't seen any evidence of bullying. Just because someone doesn't agree with someone doesn't make it bullying! For goodness sakes, scroll on by. At times I think some replies are passive aggressive and maybe even baiting.

Ducking and running for cover just in case I've offended someone. ::))

Whistle, there are definitely people who seem to rub each other the wrong way and it is voiced sometimes.

Again even if all you say is that you are the tenth person to agree, it is still adding to the conversation.

Agreeing with whistle about overreacting. I've been doing this a long time, and learned years ago not to take things too seriously. It's nothing but words on a screen coming from imaginary people on the internet. Nobody can read my mind, or hear my words - they'll know only what I choose to post.

I do find that some things resonate, and I try to examine why that is before responding.

One thing's for sure, censorship here is neck & neck with social media's. I've had several posts disappear into thin air (i'd get responses in eNotifications, and when i'd click, i'd see they disappeared. Why - simply because i posted some genuine issues? The www these days is upside down just like Sodom of long ago. It's like many people who frequent this forum, consider it to be "dangerous" that this country might change for the better. And by that, i don't mean high-tech, glamour, or space-travel. I mean policies of justice.

I remember years ago when the contentiousness was mostly limited to cooking disagreements. I am fully on board with keeping all politics somewhere else, after all there are still places for that and keeping the forums nice. It has nothing to do with what topics are currently relevant in the world.

Ok, here's one some might remember :-)

We had a feisty opinionated contributor years ago, who I liked, but could definitely provoke insanity among other cooks. This person would take chicken ALREADY COOKED and bread and fry it. Considering people reuse roasted chicken all the time in legitimate recipes, this idea wasn't a biggie but it got a lot of fire.

Some people take their dinner seriously.

Could have been worse. Someone might have suggested we put bread in the compost pile.

And, as I recall, the delightful woman who would recoil in horror at the idea of bread in the compost pile would also occasionally irk Spike (to the point of teacup trips) with references to the leader (P**e) of one of the world's major religions. Those who didn't know those days won't understand, and I think that's part of what Sherry was saying in her OP.

Ok, in trying to participate and be active, I'm going to ask a dumb question that might stir things up: that is not my intention, but I'm dying to know. Why can't you compost bread? I do it when it molds....

P.s. my mom only knew how to use ketchup on meatloaf. I had never heard of gravy until I was an adult;^)

Bread, pasta and bakery products attract rodents and other pests.

Which I always laugh at when I hear or read about things attracting rodents and other pests because compost by it's nature attracts rodents etc. A good compost should have worms which all kinds of things eat.

A good compost should have worms which all kinds of things eat.

I bet a nice little business could be set up by selling European worms, you know how those Europeans love their pasta and pastry and it stands to reason they would have worms better equipped to handle such compost.

(jk)

Heatheron,

Try searching through compost forum for “bread” and “annpat”.

Read 10 or so of the resulting threads.

Thank you Maifleur and Elizabeth! Hmmm, I always just figured the same rodents who would want bread, would want my apple core too. Now the occasional catfood that doesn't get eaten is what the infrequent racoon or possum come check out ;^)

Thanks again!

I keep my compost in a raised tumble barrel and put everything in it including bread and meat..no rodents can get into it. I put some soil into it and it naturally spawned worms and soon turned into a worm composter making the best worm castings.

Sorry, but compost by its nature does not attract rodents!! If using the right ingredients in good proportions, there is nothing in it to attract them. Grass clippings, fallen leaves, yard waste and garden trimmings and even kitchen scraps in proper proportions are not appealing to rodents. That's why one is advised not to include wildlife attracting ingredients to the compost pile like protein sources, dairy products, cooking oils or grease and breads and pastas. Add those kinds of materials to a compost and you will attract things a lot worse than a rodent or two!!

If you want to know more about composting and why bread is strongly discouraged, come hang out on the Compost, Soils and Mulch forum!

@heatheron40, I’m glad you asked. I, too, was curious.

gardengal I wish you would tell the possums and raccoons that visit mine especially after a rain that they are doing something wrong since they apparently should not like finding tibbits. Mine is slow composted and is only made up of leaves, branches, and weeds.

Sometimes a good idea to develop a thicker emotional skin, to let the bullies have their opinion, smile, shrug our shoulders and get on with our lives as we've chosen to live them.

What with covid necessitating us to shop infrequently, especially those of us who've bid the 80s farewell, sometimes bread gets mouldy.

If it's not too bad, I've been known to toast it and drop it into a frying pan working on scrambling eggs. I like maple syrup on it occadionally, or ketchup, but not at the same time. Regular syrup's O. K., for those of you who don't like the stuff from a tree, preferring the stuff from beets, cane, corn, etc.

The heavily mouldy bread and other mouldy or otherwie disreputable stuff goes into the compost pile, at the side of the garden, a couple of hundred feet from the house. By the way - I need to throw some more dirt on it prior to freeze-up: a smidgeon of snow yesterday and this morning.

Hope you all had a happy Halloween: mine was like each of the fifteen years that I've been here: no tricks or treaters.

By the way, isn't that a bit of a threatening game: "Give us a treat - or we'll soap your windows or mess up your place in some way"!

When I was young, it was "Tricks for Treats" and the kids recited a poem, sang a song, did a dance or something to justify or merit the reward. "Give and take", rather than "Give ...or else"!

ole joyfuelled ... thankful to have avoided covid, thus far

I'm not sure what your point is. Neither possums or raccoons are rodents but they are also not much interested in a vegetative matter only compost....except for whatever invertebrates it may contain. And only then if other, more preferable food sources are not available.

And they will also do the same anywhere else in the garden that has rich soil life.

It is disturbing to open your compost bin and watch a rat scamper out! We have been getting inquiries about how to manage compost to avoid rat problems. Although it is almost impossible to completely rat-proof your compost, here are methods and suggestions for bin types that can help minimize the problem.

https://extension.wsu.edu/whatcom/hg/rats-in-compost/

Last time I checked possums and raccoons were both considered wildlife which is my point.

Sooo...? What's the matter with wild critters digging in your compost? Mine is waaaay down in back and I don't put meat in it....but occasionally will put a bare bone or so and shrimp and crab shells. But I put stale and slightly moldy bread and crackers under the bird feeder especially for the critters.
And where do you get gravy for meatloaf? Do you make it from pan drippings? or dump it from a jar? Ketchup goes on meatloaf...or mayo if it's cold in a sandwich.

Re mouldy bread. If you use sliced bread freeze it and takeout only the amount you need at any one time. If you use whole loaves cut them into sections before freezing. If it’s merely stale and not mouldy there are loads of recipes which will use it up.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane ☺

I thought anne's aversion to composting bread was because it gave her the heebie jeebies...?

And we've got lots of Asian roof rats in this coastal, suburban, heavily built up, populous area. They like fruit and get into everything!

Saw one running across the street & up someone's driveway just the other night.

I have a farm, so of course I have all kinds of "creatures", from possums and raccoons to bears and eagles. Lots of mice, groundhogs, chipmunks, gophers, coyotes, stray cats, fox, whatever. As long as they don't ruin my garden, kill my chickens, eat the eggs, etc., I leave them be. Of course, my "compost bin" is a pile of cow manure about 8 feet tall, everything goes there when the barns are cleaned, and the few scraps that aren't consumed by chickens, cattle or the horse go into that pile. In the alternative, I have some raspberries, strawberries, asparagus, garlic and horseradish in beds behind the house. I just dig a trench, dump the stuff in there and bury it. Anything that might cause the bears to visit goes in the manure pile as encouraging them is asking for trouble. Newspaper is used as a layer under mulch between rows.

As for cooking arguments, I stopped at the local coffee shop to get one of their lattes for my Mother last week. Question of the day was "how long does it take to hard boil an egg". I laughed and told the barista that it was a question which could spur two days worth of discussion on the Cooking Forum, LOL.

Annie

AnnPat sure didn't like the cute little Planarians that would grow on the composting bread!

Black rat

It is a generalist omnivore and a serious pest to farmers because it feeds on a wide range of agricultural crops....

Black rats (or their ectoparasites[22]) can carry a number of pathogens,[23] of which bubonic plague (via the Oriental rat flea), typhus, Weil's disease, toxoplasmosis and trichinosis are the best known....

Rats serve as outstanding vectors for transmittance of diseases because they can carry bacteria and viruses in their systems. A number of bacterial diseases are common to rats, and these include Streptococcus pneumoniae, Corynebacterium kutsheri, Bacillus piliformis, Pasteurella pneumotropica, and Streptobacillus moniliformis, to name a few. All of these bacteria are disease causing agents in humans. In some cases, these diseases are incurable.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_rat#:~:text=The%20black%20rat%20%28Rattus%20rattus%29%2C%20also%20known%20as,light%20brown%20in%20colour%20with%20a%20lighter%20underside.

Obviously, it's an aesthetic consideration---the prohibition against bread. It has nothing to do with critters or mold. It's the puff! It's the sog! I've brought up this example so many times, it's getting tired, but...have you ever seen a hot dog eating contest, the ones with the chaser glasses of bread slurry? It's a lot like that.

I've been a member since 1998, but, smiling, I didn't go to Disney bringing up the p0pe. That was Metaxa. I got in trouble complaining about the consequent thread removal. Boy! That used to tick me off seeing those Micky Mouse ears downloading an inch at a time on my very slow dial up.

I've lived in Farm country a very long time and never seen a black rat....nor a brown one for that matter. Grew up near the City....and did see a rat or so in the subway and around garbage cans.
But sure have never seen a rat near my compost bin. However bears in a garbage dump...buzzards on road kill...yep!

but black rats?? Really?? Where do you live??

Black rats occur only in maritime areas. Brown (Norway) rats however do not have that limitation. And of course there are native rat species present in rural areas also.

Hi annpat, nice to "see" you after all these years! So sorry for my error in recall about the p0pe thread. (Didn't someone add to that thread just a 3 word post: "P0pe, P0pe, P0pe!"? Was that you?) That old compost forum was SO much fun while it lasted, and it was a great teacher, too.

Thanks for the memory about Metaxa!

No, I didn't say, P0pe, P0pe, etc., I wrote a long post about it being my Aunt Leola's birthday in the same thread, and could not believe it when it posted for a second, then the entire thread was yanked. I wrote something about "people" getting a little high-handed, dusted my hands off and was shocked the next day to see those Micky Mouse ears unfolding. It was years before I was able to get in with a new name.

A large group of us, smiling, from the early days still hang out with each other---on a forum and in real life. We have get togethers every couple of years and one of the women---Miss Ellie---actually bought a summer place on my road after one of the group gatherings here in Maine.

About five people traveled up to British Columbia, once, and were royally hosted by Metaxa. When people come here, I do this fun thing where I act like a guest and treat my guests like they're the host and they do all the cooking, etc.

Hayseedman and I hang out sometimes and have gone island camping together a few times.

I have to say that I rarely check KT or CF anymore, mainly KT, just because of the constant bickering. It just isn't fun anymore. I miss the old days, and those who are gone from this life who helped make it what it was. When I first posted on CF, I was very intimidated, but since have been warmly welcomed, and have met Annie in person. Hi! Annie! Miss you. THink of you often when we are in MI, though haven't been anywhere near you in a few years.

And, like Yeonassky (hope I spelled that right, I just went back up to see, and forgot again!) I struggle with conversation, in real life, and on line. The words I speak, and type rarely express my thoughts/feelings the way I want them to, so I just tend not to comment at all, or at the very most, say the absolute least I can. Those I have met in person were just like meeting old friends, which made it much easier to talk to, though!

And the cross posting between forums is very confusing to me. I am confused enough without that.

My 2 cents worth, but I don't find the KT friendly and welcoming anymore.

I stepped away from the forum because , after cleaning the cache on my computer and losing my saved password, it became an absolute rabbit hole to get back in again and it still does not work all the time taht I don't get told to sign in when I am already signed in. I just gave up , but came to this click on the computer this morning and here I am. The next forum taht I try to access will probably tel me to sign in again when I am already signed in. I just don't know what is happening and tried to eliminate everything and start all over again and that is a mixed bag, too. I just gave up.

Wednesday morning I find that I have to be signed into both Gardenweb and Houzz. No reason why and it should not be but welcome back.

To read messages I must be signed into Houzz. To post I can be signed into either.

@ tami - don't doubt yourself! Your post is perfectly understandable and well written 🙂

Tami!!! I'm happy to "see" you again too. If you ever get even close to me, let me know, I'd drive to meet you somewhere, I miss you. COVID cases are spiking up here in Michigan again, but it'll all be under control someday and we can visit again.

annpat, I never got sent to Disney, but I got a couple of "stern warnings" from Spike. One was for mentioning that I had voted for Ralph Nader in the past. I was warned that there would be no talk of politics. I somewhat cheekily informed Spike that Nader wasn't really a politician so it shouldn't count. Then I got a "stern warning", so I decided to let it go. (grin) Actually, it was a very contentious thread, I forget what it was even about, but threads were limited to 100 comments and then they were closed A couple of us were just going back and forth with the last four comments to reach 100, trying to close the thread before people got too mad at each other.

Annie

I remember that....LOL!!!

Thank you, Carolb.

Annie! Are the phone numbers I have still the same? We were supposed to go to a RV rally in Luddington, but we all know that didn't happen. We just got a new to us 40' Class A diesel pusher. It sure feels a lot bigger than our 30' gas job! It's in Alabama, and still needs some repairs to it, but it is road worthy. It looks like DH is finally going to retire (for the second time!) next month, and we will be going down for the winter, and finish the repairs. I sure hope things go back to "normal" soon!

I remember the first time I met people. Six SCM women came here in 2003, ranging in age from 32 to 60. We had never seen so much as a photo of each other, and it was very awkward to meet people that you had a surprisingly close relationship with, but have never laid eyes on, and interesting that we had no idea how old people were. Sassy showed up here and was a baby! After a few wines, we were howling with laughter---talking about all you guys who weren't there---and it started feeling like what it really was---friends who'd known each other forever. The next night, we skinny-dipped under a warm July full moon.

We once gathered, about 24 of us at a campground in Maryland, and two years ago, I drove to South Carolina, showed up at Joule's house, went for a sailboat ride on Lake Murray, and was back in my campground a few hours later. Some people have visited Wavesmom in California, and she once rented Miss Ellie's cottage at the end of my road. People I met here in 1997-98 have become my best friends. Unbelievable really. Hayseedman's been here; I've been to his house. He makes me go dancing. I make him go to islands.

Sherry, sorry it's not as much fun. We all know what you mean.

Tami, I think you have all my current information and telephone numbers, I haven't changed anything in the 6 years since I've moved here to the farm. I'd LOVE to hear from you, after everything calms down and life becomes a little more "normal", of course!

We've had a lot of get togethers too, Canning Camp here, Bread Camp in Tennessee, I went to California and learned to eat sushi, more of us met in Chicago. My daughter used to call the Forum my "imaginary friends" and was a little apprehensive when I told Evil Jessica that she could stay a week at my house with her two sons when she came from California, LOL. It all worked out fine, of course. We filled my yard with campers for The Michigan Run and rented a house to help Sheshebop get her house ready to sell when her husband died. I've met some wonderful people...

Annie

Were you always Annie?

I've always been annie1992, but I only post to Harvest and Cooking. I started on Harvest, found some kindred spirits there. I have a big garden and being a farm kid, I've always canned a lot. This year I hit over 1,000 jars again. The grandkids teased me about being a "prepper", LOL, I told them that it was what farmers have always done.

Then the pandemic hit and one granddaughter said "if we run out of anything we'll go live with Grandma and PaPaw, they have enough food for 2 years". (grin)

I don't "do" the gardening forums much because I only grow fruits and vegetables, nothing decorative for the deer to eat other than flowers in the gardens for the pollinators. My gardening procedure is to spread a layer of manure from my grassfed beef cattle, let it sit all winter, work it in when spring comes, toss some seeds into the ground and walk away. I do the same thing with fruit trees, dig a hole, fill it with composted cow manure, stick a tree in and walk away. (shrug) It works for me, but I don't have any real "techniques" or recipes for compost or such. My weed killers are a hoe, a flock of chickens and the grandkids, who get paid per bug for picking potato beetles or tomato worms. My gardens are about an acre and I also have 200 asparagus crowns, 100 strawberry plants, a couple dozen raspberry canes, a garlic bed and fruit trees. Apple, pear, sweet cherry, sour cherry, peach and plum. Some are young and have not yet fruited, but they are all growing well despite my very benign neglect.

Annie

Annie, do you still hear from Sherry (Sheshebop)? I hope she's doing well.

CC, I haven't heard from her in a while. She moved into a condo to be closer to her daughter, then sold the condo and moved into a place on a lake. She's on Facebook but I am not, and she hasn't answered my emails, but I think she's been very busy moving and with family issues. I miss her, though.

Annie

FWIW, life in general isn't as much fun any more - IME...

Carol, that is so true.