No longer friendly or fun

Sherry

I came here way before Houzz bought Garden Web. I didn't go back as far as Spike, but probably was close. I found it searching for help with my new greenhouse. I not only found that, but a lot of my other interests. Everyone was friendly, helpful, and kind. It was like talking to your next door neighbor, but they were all over the world. My original login name is lost. When Houzz took over, it kept telling me that I could not have it, because it belonged to someone else. That someone else was me!

It is not like that anymore. The bullies have taken over. This is no longer fun. To those who have really been helpful, thank you. To the rest, have fun. In case you haven't noticed, there are not NEAR as many posters now, you are why.

Yes, I can Google. But, you know, Google brings up millions of different hits and not all are good.

Just want the bullies to know, I didn't get taken off by Houzz, I pulled the plug myself. As I said above, this is not a place that I enjoy anymore. Goodbye.

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Sammy

Bye, Sherry!

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summersrhythm_z6a

No matter where you go there are always some bullies, unhappy people around. But life is not about them, is about wonderful things and people you meet on your life journey. There are plenty nice people around here, there, and everywhere. Check in more often and put the plug back in! :-) Is your plug still in? Take the “bye “ back and stay with the ”good”. :-) Hello , are you there? Knock, knock.....,

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Lucille

I think there are many great posts here. I've gotten some help by reading pizza posts and my pizza is better.

I think one always has a choice to leave, but one has the choice to ignore stuff also. To me, that is better. Not only does it give one a chance to grow and learn how to deal with difficult people, it is a timely exercise because {Warning, politics} there is fixing to be an election and some people are actually talking about leaving the U.S. if their candidate doesn't win.

One can always just not respond. Just because someone throws the ball, doesn't mean you have to catch it.


I think there are people here worth staying for.

ps there is a thread on this forum started today asking what people do for fun and it has 25 replies so far. I think there is still fun to be had.



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satine100

Sherry, there are still many kind and caring people here. I agree that things aren't what they used to be but these days you have to sometimes look for the good things and ignore those which pull you down. If we want to save our forum we all need to try to stick around and help make a comeback.

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nickel_kg

This doesn't have to be forever, but thanks for letting us know you're (at least) taking a break. That is considerate of you :-)

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foodonastump

I’m gonna assume this has to do with Kitchen Table which I don’t read, because if you’ve been here as long as you say then surely you’ve seen Cooking get less contentious than it was back in the day. I will say your reaction to minestrone left me quite puzzled; I read the thread three times to try to figure out what set you off. Could it be you’re reading aggression where it’s not intended?

Anyway enjoy your reclaimed time. There’s worse things than kicking an internet habit!

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smiling

Sherry, Thank you for the kindness of saying farewell with a brief explanation. I wish you well going forward.


As one who goes all the way back to the Spike days {and who somehow avoided the Disney trips he often used to manage things :) }, I want others to know that Sherry is not wrong. There has been a substantive change across the forums that still survive, at least the ones I've followed for so long. Some forums have withered entirely (or moved en masse to another site), and the current tone of many posters here is progressively negative and hostile. I can understand that people who never experienced the friendly and neighborly culture of the older GW are more willing to tolerate what's offered today. I can also understand those who, like Sherry, finally reach the conclusion that time here is more stressful than it's worth. It's still sad to see someone leave, as each departing member is an irreplaceable loss.


So far, I've coped by posting less and less each year, and selectively (but entirely) ignoring certain posters as if they were blocked. Maybe I'll be banned for writing this, but Sherry made me stop and think how very differently I participate here now.


Too bad what was lost to life's bullies. My comfort is that Karma never forgets an address.

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Lars

I really do wish that we had an "ignore" button like some other forums have. I would not use it here but only on certain posters in Hot Topics who seem to have nothing intelligible to post.

It's difficult to tell when people are joking on a forum, even when emoticons are used. I sometimes say something that could be taken as a joke and then wonder if people are taking me seriously or not. I'm not even sure whether I take myself seriously or not.

It's a lot easier to communicate in person, but sometimes this is all we have.

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lindac92

I have been here and on various other Garden Web forums since Spike and Suzie were running it out of his apartment in New Jersey, and remember when he, to his great surprise ran out of bandwidth and had to re-tool and some stuff was lost and some names were changed I even rode in the teacups. I met Spike and Suzie at a get together.....think that was maybe 1998? and have a picture to prove it.
Yes there were contentious people, some who got their panties in a twist and flounced off but so very many are still here on one forum or another. I don't remember Sherry but maybe if I knew her sign -n name I would.
I remember Big Foot and Suzie and Dillon and the dances with the chicken feathers at a full moon, and the Rev with his GSD pups, and the lady who lived in a missle silo and another on a sail boat. I knew people who had 2 names and accounts and commented on their own remarks. I knew people who flounced off and returned under a different name....it's all good!
People come and people go and some leave and return. Some have bad days and let it show, some others never share their troubles.
I am sorry Sherry chose to see the negative rather than the many many positive things about this sharing community, and hope she finds peace either here or with another group on another site

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shambo

Sherry, I really don’t know you, but it always saddens me when someone leaves these forums — whether by choice or by being kicked off. Either way, it’s a loss. I still wish Grainlady was around. I use several of the products or techniques she suggested and sometimes wonder what new info or ideas I have missed because she’s no longer active on these forums. Same with Ann T. I refer to her recipes all the time.

Some folks get opinionated, and we have our issues — garlic powder vs. fresh; frozen veggies vs. fresh; sugar in cornbread or not, etc. But I think we’re better off allowing everyone to express themselves. We need that variety. We’re richer for it.

So, if you read these comments, please rethink your participation. Keep sharing your opinions and recipes. Some folks may not post about agreeing with you or trying your recipe, but perhaps what you’ve said or shared has inspired someone else. You never know...

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olychick

I don't really know you either. I look at both KT and Cooking and contribute to both when I can. I'm sorry you would let bullies "win" by leaving. The best way to deal with bullies is to not give them the power to "get" to you. Ignoring is the best tactic. Don't engage, don't respond, don't let them get to you. They don't get to me at all, because I don't care what someone else thinks or says, but I sometimes feel compelled to respond when someone is being mean or a jerk to someone else. Bullies operate well in a vacuum, but a community circling around someone who is overwhelmed or targeted by someone sends a message that the target is not alone.

I don't believe anyone can be victim of a bully if they refuse to engage.

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kathyg_in_mi

Lindac92, Wow, I don't remember Suzie! I joined in 2001, so I've been around a lot. Have even been able to keep my name!

Yes, ignore the bullies. this place is somewhere I can find my sanity and learn so much from so many great people. Many of the forums have slowed to a crawl and I remember how busy they used to be. I think part of it is how hard it can be to figure out Houzz and how to sign up for the forums.

We need more people!

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maifleur03

I looked over in cooking and the thread was about minestrone that Sherry decided to leave over. Her comments were deleted when I looked and while the ones that she objected to may have also been deleted the remaining ones before her leaving are different methods. People can become heated because how someone fixes something is not the real way because the real way was how dot dot dot used to make it not taking into account regional or personal tastes.

I did learn in reading it that people use the rinds of parm in their minestrone although I had never seen that before even in the Italian cookbooks I have so it is probably a family thing.

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Sammy

...I don't care what someone else thinks or says, but I sometimes feel compelled to respond when someone is being mean or a jerk to someone else.

Same, @olychick!

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OutsidePlaying

Sherry, I’m always sad to read things like this. I hope you will just take a break and return soon. I have been in GW since early 2000’s and came mainly for garden design and bluebird advice. Then found decorating forums and a couple of others and ended up finding the KT last. Of all of them, the KT has become most contentious sometimes, especially lately. Don’t let things get to you. I just ignore and don’t participate, and even don’t check the forum for a few days sometimes. I refuse to be bullied. There are some people who must always be right, must always feel as if they have the upper hand, and on and on. The best revenge is to live well.

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dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

Anyone seen this movie?

I believe I have that kind of a brain, an Abby Normal brain inside very thick skin.

I too had been bullied here since day one. What the bullies didn't realize was that I treated their dumb deeds as entertainment. I did enjoy getting their blood pressure higher and higher,


dcarch


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arkansas girl

There are definitely some jerks here, that is true of all forums though. I once left a forum that was so horrible, the entire group of members were bullies. I think the forum was called The Dish? It was about soap making. Should have been a great place to learn about making soap but the people there were savage!

So people were arguing over soup?...UGH! I missed that one! I remember someone calling me "trailer trash" because I put ketchup on my meatloaf...I think that was the nastiest thing anyone has said to me here at Gardenweb.

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glenda_al

So people were arguing over soup?...UGH! LOL

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kadefol

What, ketchup on meatloaf?! Well, I never!! /just kidding. :)

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lizbeth-gardener

Sherry, I have a tendency to pass on by contentious threads, but I feel bad that I didn't listen to my gut and speak out. I think the responses you got from one poster were uncalled for and unnecessary. I read your questioning as a natural curiosity about a soup you weren't familiar with and read the particular responses (since removed, as are yours) as yelling at you and talking down to you because you didn't know what minestrone was and were still asking questions, rather than taking the poster's information as gospel. I hope you don't choose to leave over this. I've noticed the poster in question has been very short with people lately on more than one thread. It's not your problem.

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summersrhythm_z6a

Oh this madness was from a soup discussion? My goodness, people must be under some sort stress...... :-)

Why is ketchup rated badly? I use ketchup and mustard on meatloaf, I actually use ketchup and mustard on all the meat that I didn’t cook right. I am not good at cooking. Lol I have learned this tip from a biker in our motorcycle club. It’s truly amazing fix on food. :-)

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seagrass_gw Somewhere

For myself, this isolation is very stressful and probably not a good time to improve on social skills. Or develop them.

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Lars

When I first posted on KT, someone questioned why I had the nerve to post on this forum, whereas a lot of people on KT already knew me and let that person know that I was not a stranger or intruder. However, it did put me off quite a bit, and I stayed away from KT for quite a while, until things changed a bit.

I was also warned not to ask a question on the laundry forum without first thoroughly researching to make sure that that question had not been asked before. I did post a unique (at the time) question there because I had put Borax and Oxyclean in the washing machine at the same time, and it turned the water red. It did not make the clothes red, however, but I was told not to mix Borax and Oxyclean together although I was not given a good reason not to.

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jemdandy

Tied in a knot about ketchup on meatloaf! Then I won't mention the things I decorate with horseradish mustard or plain horseradish.

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jally

Sherry is not alone in feeling trampled. I too miss the old gardenweb (though i'm so spread thin, that i'm only on forums once in a while). I also miss the old days when courtesy was more the rule than the exception. These days, everything's turned on its face, just the way it used to be in long-ago Sodom. In other words, "gang-stalked" forum-members are too often deleted rather than the initial trolls who initiate a snowball effect. From my perspective, it's as if a large portion of today's population consider scoffing to be the "new normal", whereas courteous mannerisms (or a unique set of experiences, such as painful conditions) are deemed "weird and depressing, and thus not to be tolerated".

I not only had single posts deleted here, but i've had my entire threads deleted 2X within a short time. I've no idea who's behind that. People were calling me a conspiratist. Oh? Then why, pray tell, every single time I post about stem-cells (not just on gw/houzz, but also throughout the past decades on other forums such as the by-now trashy yahoogroups) my posts would get deleted??? Can that really be a coincidence, that throughout the years the only ones deleted were on that topic? It's as if there's spies or spybots crawling all over the www who, whenever someone gets close to the truth (no matter whether stem cells, or Tesla, or what have you) they report them. It really creeps me out!

The following was the topic of my deleted KT post, which for some reason, several respondents turned into nastiness, instead of decency: https://ibb.co/5jjzf39

(btw, the thumbs up/down were Free pixabay downloads.

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laceyvail 6A, WV

Sad to say but what's happening on the forums mirrors what's happening in the nation--nastiness, bullying, divisiveness.

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Elizabeth

Given the meanspirited climate that this nation seems to be becoming, you most likely won't find a nicer forum than this. That is, if you are seeking one at all. For the most part, I see little nastiness here and the group seems to deal with it swiftly. I guess I don't expect any group to be 100% nice so it's OK.

Best wishes.

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seniorgal

I check this board every morning, ignoring some posts, but reading most. It is one of the few contacts I have with the outside world. I feel I know many of you. I agree that we have lost many members but I don't know their reasons.

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Elizabeth

I too feel as if I know many of the people here. Just like real life, you are going to like some better than others. This really is one of the most civilized boards there is. Is there a disagreement now and then? Of course. Life isn't Mr. Rogers neighborhood. But here we have the ability to scroll on by and ignore those unpleasant things.

I sincerely hope those who have left the group find somewhere they are happier.


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woodrose

I've been here almost as long as Lindac, since late 1990's, and I don't plan on leaving anytime soon. Spike was a tough master. one of his rules was you were not allowed to post a link to another website, and if you broke that rule, off to the teacups you went !

Linda and I are tough old birds, and we don't allow the bullies to run us off. If someone tries to bully me, I can give it right back to them. I may say my piece and walk away, but I will rarely continue to engage in an argument with them. The best thing you can do to a bully is to ignore them. I'm sure that frustrates them to no end, and that makes me happy. The same goes for know-it-alls and snobby people.

Sherry, I'm really sorry to see you leave. We really need people like you here to man the fort, and provide some balance against "those" people. I hope you come back soon, dear.

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Lukki Irish

I can’t speak for the cooking forum, but every forum has it’s own personality and quirks. I stay put in the Kitchen and Decor Conversation forums because To me, the large majority of posters are kind and responsive. So much so, that I’ve found it to be comforting after having a bad day. Sure there are heated topics, but people are passionate and the intent surely isn’t to bully.

I miss Gardenweb and the many members who have decided to stop visiting. I find it hard to believe that someone stopped visiting because of something someone in the Kitchen Table Forum has done, so why leave? Why not just avoid where you don’t feel welcome and enjoy where you do?

Obviously, all of the issues this country is going through has taken its toll on a lot of us. Our worlds have seemingly shrunk from a broad spectrum of topics to the size of Ketchup on meatloaf (which for me is a must) and bullying over a soup question. I think we need to cut each other some slack and remember that we don’t know what’s taking place in the lives of those participating. A kind response can sometimes make all the difference to someone who’s struggling and often does.

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Raye Smith

Personally I love ketchup put on the meatloaf part way through cooking.

One of the things I've noticed is so many don't want to hear or even consider a viewpoint contrary to mainstream media. I learned that a wise person thinks about issues from multiple viewpoints, researches and then comes to a conclusion. I've even had other posters argue with me about researching and learning for myself instead of blindly "only accepting what the experts say". Mention that experts have been proven wrong in our lifetime just ticks them off more.

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Jim Mat

This is life in general...before covid, I was a volunteer at the local senior center.....politics, cheating at card/board games...finances...


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eld6161

I am after the Spike days, so I can only speak for my 12 years here. For the most part, people are kind, considerate, and helpful. Yes, there seem to be a few here who want to pick a fight or prove that they are right etc. I just ignore those.

I know for me, this place fills a void and I am appreciative of the fact that I can come here 24/7 and receive support and advice.

For those who feel they are better off without this forum, that is fine for them. I just don't quite understand the need to make an announcement.

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Jasdip

I love this forum. I honestly don't know where I'd go if this one disappeared. I tried a couple of others briefly but didn't like them.

One of our Canadian ones dissipated to go to FB only. That one was very cliquey, contentious. If you dared ask a question that is asked fairly often, no one helped you, they told you to use the search button.

Any confrontation here doesn't upset me, I get far more upset when people flag posts they don't agree with. That's nothing short of immature.

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

One thing to remember is that it is sometimes difficult to correctly evaluate tone and/or intent in online comments. And some seem to be overly sensitive as well :-) What may seem as bullying is really only a voicing of surprise that one has not encountered a similar situation.

I saw no comments in that thread that I would have interpreted as bullying so surprised a bit at the OP's reaction. I have been (and continue to be) the subject of bullying by a single member who only visits other, garden-related forums, to the point where I have been called stupid, a liar and mentally deficient. He is always right, my opinion is always garbage and he always insists on having the last word. While I continue to participate in those forums, I no longer acknowledge any comments made by that member but I do flag his posts that violate the terms of conduct. They are usually deleted.......not really sure why his account has not been deleted as well but he is easy enough to ignore.

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amylou321

I am sorry to see anyone leave. I have been met with some unkind words here before. I have even been accused of having a mental illness/personality disorder by certain persons here. (More than one)

I just make a mental note of who that person is, and just avoid them. I dont post on their threads and don't respond to their posts. Well, I might slip here and there if I don't necessarily look to see whose post it is before I respond, but for the most part, if I know someone does not like me, I just do my best not to engage with them. It helps that I dont get offended easily. Its not like in real life when you can't avoid people all the time. At least here you can just click off. To me, there are way way WAY more nice,friendly,helpful people here than not. And I would not let mean people chase me away from the good ones. And as far as the know it alls or snobs, I just let them know it all and feel good about it. Everyone has something to boost their confidence, for some unfortunates, that thing is feeling superior to other people. Not something I envy,but something to be pitied, IMO.

But, everyone has a choice and I hope that this choice sherry has made will bring her happiness and peace.

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Raye Smith

GardenGal48, you aren't the only one that has received that treatment and I'm doing the same thing. If you refuse to engage with a bully it takes the "fun" out of it for him.

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nickel_kg

Too many bullies is one thing. Not enough happy, fun-loving, outgoing, imaginative posters is another. Some of the friendly names from days gone by are sorely missed. I blame 2020 -- it's harder to be merry and light-hearted this year. Sincere thanks to all ya'll who do step up and post fun, floofy topics.

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Elizabeth

Online bullies are different than real life bullies and so is the way to handle them. In person, I always stand up to a bully and swiftly put them in their place. Over and done. Online bullies will continue to bait and provoke you and do so with great glee. They are tireless in their keyboard world as they are anonymous. I just scroll away when I see the bait. ( I admit I have taken the bait a couple times ) They just move on and find a willing participant.

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matti5

I've been at the KT for nearly 18 years and while there has from time to time been drama, I have felt it intensify the past few years. I'm sure many of us have become familiar with the members here and know how they typically respond. When I see certain thread titles, I can usually predict how it will go. There are a few members that I avoid for various reasons. I just scroll on by and don't allow them to ruin my time here.

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arkansas girl

It is sad that one or two bad apples spoil the whole bunch...honestly, that doesn't make rational sense but it is what it is. It is like when you are a kid and 100 people can tell you that you are beautiful but let one person make a comment that you have a big nose and that is all the kid remembers or thinks about. I guess it's just how the human brain is wired. This was me as a child. I am still like that to a degree but as I've gotten older, I don't hang around kids anymore...LOL! Most adults are kinder than kids...but there are some that still act like they did when they were in school. But, let's try not to let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch.

This forum really isn't too bad though I have found that certain threads I should stay out of because my beliefs on the subject do not jive with popular beliefs. I've a mind that makes me question things I hear and see and read. That often somehow gets me into trouble. Most people just go along with the flow...not me...HAHA!

My sister once offered some good advice, she said that if you wouldn't say something to someone's face, then don't write it in an email or a post. It wasn't to me, just a general comment of words to live by.

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Elizabeth

Good words to live by gardengal.

I've also heard there is a little stink in every group. 😏

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arkansas girl

BTW, we just had meatloaf with ketchup AND GRAVY...OH NO!!!!!!!!!! HAHA!

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Elizabeth

Ketchup rocks.

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chickadee2_gw

Emily just posted on Hot Topics that Houzz is dropping Hot Topics. Better hold onto your chairs here.

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shambo

Tone can be misconstrued. Regarding that Minestrone thread, I read it all before any posts were deleted. Like Gardengal, I didn’t note any bullying. Yes, there was some preachiness, condescension, and patronizing, but nothing that rose to the level of bullying.

Several years ago a Cooking Forum member didn’t think he was given enough credit for his “original” recipes. Other members weren’t making them, he thought. So he emailed me privately asking me to make something of his and to post about it. That wasn’t bullying exactly, but it sure was pushy.

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chloebud

Glenda, there is so much truth in that! It's always been pretty clear for me to tell who likely does or doesn't feel good about themselves. People who come off as a know-it-all or superior in some way usually don't feel so great at all. Yes, remember that.

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Lars

I think people who are mean to others may have been victims of abuse themselves, and so it becomes a vicious cycle. I think that mean behavior is learned and that this is why it is important to lead by example and not be judgemental.

People who need to feel superior or to be always right may have been taught that it was not okay to make mistakes and that they must always strive to be perfect. I prefer to accept people with flaws and be forgiving. I don't expect anyone to be perfect, and I hope no one expect me to be perfect either.

The only people that I would try to force to make my recipes would be the ones who would be feeding me when I am incapacitated. I've not had much luck with that so far! I did write down my favorite recipes for that very reason, however, but now I think it is too much to ask of someone who might be taking care of me.

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SEA SEA

I've not been reading on KT for a long time, but I've found a lot of your 'company' nice and rewarding just by it happening. I don't know what the trouble is, or has been but it sounds like what's been happening across our country in recent years. I'm sorry feelings have been hurt by others and to others. It seems to be more common these days online and in real life. I also think the anonymous nature of internet posting sites gives certain types of people the sense that they can behave poorly without consequence. Things are said that wouldn't be said to a person's face. Throw in that inflections and intent can be blurred in written forums, sometimes offense is taken when it's not intended and other times you are just dealing with a bully who can't or won't be the big bully in real life. Sometimes people just don't how to word something properly and it's not received well.

I don't post a lot because I can't add much and it's kind of hard to chime in (for me) to a long time, well formed group. Kind of like I'm butting in. But anyways, I just wanted those who feel not so good feelings right now to know that I've done searches on GW to find answers to some life's little problems and some of your threads from the past have shown up and have really helped me out. As if the aunties, big sisters, grams and moms I didn't have are sitting around the table talking about this or that and I got to learn from all of you. That's how I found this forum. I've appreciated it. I'm probably not the only one. I've been warned about particular poster in private. My observations prior to the warning match what I noticed. So yea, there's that but such is life, right? I have a harmful koo-koo neighbor and I wish I could scroll on by her rantings and unfortunate behavior like I do with certain poster. :-)

Take care everyone. I hope folks feel better soon. fwiw

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nancyofnc

After all these years (16?) I still enjoy the posts and read the Cooking Forum everyday. I have learned a lot and have been inspired by quite a few posters. I revel in their stories of failure then success and the why/how they did something, and other people's way of doing it, and new tools I didn't know existed. I first felt left out not knowing if the person they named was husband, daughter, SO, or whatever, and that they went somewhere exotic to have new food or got together in person with another poster, but it doesn't bother me now and I enjoy those posts vicariously and sort of feel connected to the posters if only by name. I love the photos of the meals, breads, or treats they make and the displays of harvested vegetables, well plated meals artistically photographed. I ignore those posters who have a bone to pick and lash out. C'mon - it's just food.

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bpath

Can we go back to meatloaf with ketchup and gravy? I’ve never had both ketchup AND gravy on it and I feel like I am missing out!

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arkansas girl

Yes ma'am, you are missing out! HA! But it really is pretty darn good. My husband and I both like it that way and that's what matters...right?!

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maifleur03

bpath I have not made meatloaf nor wanted to for a long time but one of my favorite traveling meals is a hot beef sandwich. Adding just a touch of ketchup to the gravy seems to bring out so many additional flavors.

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bpath

My favorite lunches are leftovers, and ketchup, and a cold meatloaf or, truly, roast pork, sandwich with ketchup is heaven. Can I truly elevate to another level of heaven with GRAVY? Ooh la la!

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Lars

I don't have any ketchup in my house, but I do always have chili sauce and hot sauce, which I use instead. I prefer hot (picante) to sweet, as a rule, but that's probably because that's what I'm used to. It just never occurs to me to have ketchup. I make chili sauce without tomatoes, but I do like tomatoes and will sometimes add tomato to a chili sauce.

When I make a sauce for shrimp cocktail, I use chili sauce, horseradish, lemon or lime juice, and mayonnaise. As a child, I never ate mayo, however, and so it was an acquired taste for me. I never acquired the taste for ketchup, however. I think it is okay - I just don't use it. I do sometimes put marinara sauce on meatloaf, or a mushroom sauce, like my grandmother used to make.

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Uptown Gal

I have been here, off and on with different names, since Spike days. There

were always those who decided it had to be their opinion or it wasn't acceptable. I don't read at the Cooking forums anymore...so am not familiar

with this mentioned post...but wouldn't matter..."to each his own". Scroll

on By...always works. I am a bit more forgiving now though...I know the

anger and upset people are going through, and try not to take it to heart

too much..I have those days too. That being said...I love Ketchup! LOL.

And I love Miracle Whip..but sure know people who don't. My theory...good,

all the more for me. ;) (a wink means...lighten up). Hugs to anyone who

can use one... During those years, I have had a lot of ups, a lot of downs, which

means...lived a life like most people do. A whole new generation came into my

life and made it all worthwhile. Sure worth letting go of a food opinion anyway.

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Michele

I only joined in early 2019. After chiming in with an opinion on color for kitchen cabinets, as the original post requested, I was singled out. A member who I have since noticed is very touchy let me have it! Boy! I was going to drop the whole thing but I found two other threads that were friendly and positive, so I stayed.


Another observation I’ve made. There is one PRO and one other poster who have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. I have read comments from both that were very caring and sympathetic.

That very much changed my first impression.

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Elizabeth

I put Miracle Whip on Jello. I have been judged.

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Uptown Gal

LOL , Elizabeth. Just eating the Jello would have you judged by my Dad. LOL

Me...I love Jello!

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bbstx

You can eat meatloaf without ketchup? That was my mother’s idea of “gravy.”

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

I grew up with my mom's meatloaf and that was always served with a gravy, never ketchup or any tomato based topping. To this day, I prefer my meatloaf sans ketchup but I also rarely make any gravy for it either. Sometimes I will have a snitch of dijon mustard or horseradish with it (and always in a sandwich) but I usually have it plain. It's flavorful and juicy enough not to require a topping.

I am also a fan of jello.....but only a red colored jello and preferably with fruit included.

In my life, ketchup is reserved only for potatoes - french fries, hash browns or home fries. Never on meatloaf, hamburgers or hotdogs.......or anything else :-)

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olychick

I also never had ketchup on meatloaf. I think both Gardengal and I are PNW born? I am. Maybe it's regional. Never was served meatloaf with ketchup until I married my husband from SoCal and he made it one time and put ketchup on it. His mom was from midwest stock and that's how she made it. I almost gagged. I think part of it was hot, cooked ketchup. I'd only had it cold and uncooked. Anyway, I thought it was awful. I do like ketchup on a few things...the potatoes as mentioned above, scrambled egg sandwiches and sometimes a hotdog (but I haven't eaten one of those for 10 years or more). Oh, and I think Dick's Hamburgers (Seattle) has ketchup on them, but I'd never add it to a homemade one.

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chisue

I *make* meatloaf with ketchup. So THERE!

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olychick

Michele, those pros you speak of have been called out many, many times for being rude and mean. I think they finally got the message, or maybe got on meds.

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chloebud

Raspberry jello with frozen raspberries and applesauce mixed in...yummm.

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Lars

I think sometimes people who are being rude and mean think that they are being funny. They are not. I call it a Don Rickles complex. If they are being vicious, that is a different matter.

I generally avoid the Home Decorating forum because of some of the obnoxious "Pros" there. In my work, I am used to hearing scathing reviews and criticisms, but it is different hearing them in person than from an anonymous person on line.

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lindac92

What I see going on here with the "issue" in question...Sherry doing the flounce thing, is that there are 2 groups here and only some overlap. I rarely even look at the kitchen table, and I know there are some who frequent the KT who rarely post on the CF. And frankly I don't remember seeing Sherry post on the CF....she may have but not frequently.
The thread about minestroni that started it all was on the CF. Sherry posted to it wondering what about minestroni was different that just vegetable soup and got bent out of shape when no one could give her a precise answer.
So she decides to flounce ( announce she is leaving) but posts that on both the KT and the CF and the KT people who don't often come to the CF didn't see the post before some replies were deleted.
The whole deal is silly...it's soup!
Sorry Sherry felt she had to leave over such a silly thing but it's her loss. I know these forums are made of many people and it takes many people to make each forum it is, but I am sure she will miss posting here more than we will miss her.
Carry on, wear a mask, wash your hands and maintain social distancing....but only in "real life"...in cyber land, anything goes!

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

I encounter a lot of "pros" on another forum. I happen to be a professional myself as it relates to that specific topic - I have just not felt the need to have that to be a part of my Houzz/GardenWeb association. It serves me no purpose personally.

But because of my professional background, I am able to evaluate the so-called advice being handed out on that forum better than most and a great deal of it - coming from these pros - is pretty worthless. There really are no requirements for signing on as a pro so who knows exactly how skilled or professional in that field they really are? Some have an entirely different background and business association than the topic being discussed, which makes their advice even more speculative.

The average reader doesn't often bother to question the professional status of those responders with a "pro" designation. Just by virtue of that tag, they assume that individual has to know more or will give better advice than just another member without that tag. And that is so not true and many time, so unfortunate for the receiver and implementer of that advice.

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dedtired

I don’t feel like I have run into a lot of nastiness on the forums I frequent. Once in awhile people get into it, but not so often. The only thing that drives me crazy is those who feel it is necessary to lecture others, point out minor mistakes and generally act like a know it all. In that case, I just scroll on by.

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l pinkmountain

There is an art to online discussions and not everyone is facile at it. I started out participating in some Linkedin professional discussion groups thinking it would be a great way to network with interesting people in my field. Well . . . sort of. I was AGHAST at the weird and confounding way some people behaved in that supposedly professional space. Posting things I would never in a million years say publicly in any circumstance . . . and people would get in big arguments over everything.

I had to learn the art of constructive dialog, partly by being taught manners at home, partly by taking several classes for college in effective communication, and partly by working with Quakers who are big on consensus building dialog. Our culture seems less and less to value the art of coalition building, the art of people living peacefully with diversity. We seem to be going to walling ourselves off more and more.

Ironically, my husband is a case in point. I had to "unfriend" him on FB due to his negative and offensive posting plus getting on my case about my use of social media. His negativity is growing now to actual in-person nastiness. We've talked about it but he doesn't see it as a problem. He's retired but was never in a people-oriented field, so never had to develop much in the area of getting along positively with others. I do think his lack of manners has held him back somewhat socially and professionally. He lack an awareness and concern for how his words and actions are experienced by other people. Most of the time he is just standoffish, but if you combine that with occasional hostility folks aren't going to cut you much slack. He says he doesn't care and walls himself off more. I'd say he is fairly typical of the zeitgeist ("spirit of the times").

My grandmother grew up in the "old country" and could not read or write, and her upbringing hearkened back to a time when you spent your entire life in one spot, and your success depended on your personal network of good will. She was able to understand and get along with almost anyone. We think we can abandon that value nowdays and we are so much the weaker and poorer for it. But no use pining away for it, if one is not convinced that such skills are needed or necessary, then it's no use trying. I have tried but just hit the ol' walls.

As far as GW, I wouldn't attribute it so much to the institution as just it being one of the signs of the times and also one of the down sides of participating in an online discussion group. It is difficult to do nowdays without some type of offense. I see both more bullying but also more hypersensitivity. Not the greatest combination for learning or having fun with folks . . .

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sal 60 Hanzlik

???

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Lucille

Sal 60 Hanzlik just started a thread entitled 'what is the oldest thing in your home'. I remembered an old fossil rock I collected over 60 years ago. What fond memories, and a burst of pleasure when I found it in its storage box and took a picture for the forum thread. Made my day. Plenty of good times here.

(I've left it out on my desk).

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ILoveMod

l pinkmountain re: unfriending your husband: LOL, I feel your pain. I had to unfollow my mom and brother-in-law for the same reason! but I hide this from them because they do not take feedback well. it's better they don't know.

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l pinkmountain

Well, I didn't make a big announcement out of it. Just trying to let go of whatever negativity I can opt out of . . . he's not the only person I unfriended. Just a few really. I have found people either "get it" or they don't. With regards to this situation, sure there are some cranky, problematic people here, but they are everywhere. Even in your own house or own family, ;)

Sometimes you just have to consider the source. We have had big feuds here on several memorable topics. I usually opt out of threads where that seems to be happening, just figuring that goes with the territory. But sometimes people do hurt people's feelings deeply without realizing it. You may not know how deeply held a person's attachment to a recipe or cooking technique might be. It might be Mom's best meatloaf technique and now she's gone and the person is missing her and can't bear hearing that it's not "real" meatloaf. I've found myself more than once having to just let something go because I don't have to justify myself to random people on the Internet, and have to remind myself of that . . . mostly all good here. I took a long sabbatical from CF due to just not cooking much or having a lot of spare time and it not being worth the investment of time for the return, nothing personal to the group. Now I am cooking and have spare time, so I'm back.

I hate to think it was minestrone that drove someone away. A big pot of warming minestrone is one of my all time comfort foods. As I mentioned, I stopped cooking for a while and soup was always one of my weekend "clean out the fridge" specialties which I pretty much stopped making home made. I'm back at it and loving it! Kinda rough for me because my uber negative Dad hardly likes anything I could put in soup, so I eat a lot of what I cook solo, but that's why God gave us a freezer!

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littlebug zone 5 Missouri

I commiserate with you, Sherry. I too was a regular here since the Spike days and remember Gingerbeachy, Marleen, Dottie, the dog-in-elk thread, and others fondly. But some people here are now quite clique-y and not receptive to ideas which differ from their own. And apparently I’m thin-skinned because the negativity festers and hurts. It’s not worth it.

A few months ago I left this forum and the other “neighborhood lady” forum, Home Decorating Conversations. I didn’t announce my departure cause nobody cares.

I read these two forums once a week or so just to see who’s being harassed now. And I agree that it’s not just on these forums where people have become intolerant/rude/hateful. A sign of the times, unfortunately. Will it change after the election? When the pandemic is over? Who knows?

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Islay Corbel

In defence of this forum, i think that there are lots of people here who bend over backwards to be helpful, friendly and at times, downright loving and giving.

Yes, we can easily be misconstrued...... the written word can sometimes be a little caustic when there isn't a smiling face to soften the words.....I know I'm certainly guilty of that. But there is no malice intended.

I've been here since Spike and really appreciate what this forum adds to my life.

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Debby

Yes, she is correct. This isn't the same place it was 20 years ago. It was a lot more fun, but I'm finding more and more people are "know-it-alls" and a lot no longer seem to have a sense of humour. I used to be here 24/7 now just come every few days, read a couple posts, comment on one or two and hope I don't get berated by someone for my opinion because you can't have a different opinion than some people. (not all).... ;)

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dedtired

Forgot about the dog in the elk. That was hilarious.

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llucy

The cross-posting is confusing. Don't know who is talking about which forum. Maybe it doesn't matter....all were better 20 years ago?

Why did Spike give up gardenweb?

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Lars

The Cooking Forum was definitely a lot different 20 years ago and had a lot more people posting. Unfortunately, Spike banned quite a few of them for reasons that I did not agree with, and so I was never a fan of his. Quite a few have been banned here because of posts they have made on Hot Topics, and so I think it is good that they are getting rid of that, but the damage has already been done.

For me, KT is tamer than it used to be. I did not find it that friendly (to me) 20 years ago, and it was also more cliquish back then. I never found the Cooking Forum to be cliquish, although others may have had that experience. It's easy to be a food snob without realizing it.

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Lukki Irish

Communicating with just the written word can be really hard because every reader will interpret the same post a little differently. I think that while it’s the writers responsibility to be consignant of how they word a post, the reader also has a responsibilty to understand that challenge and not take it all so personally. People aren’t robots, their moods and feelings will always be an influencing factor as to how something is written or interpreted.

There’s been times when I’ve gone back to read a thread and come across a post I’ve written. After a second review, I’ll see that maybe in this moment I could have done a better job with my wording but who knows what was happening at that time? Usually they’re threads having to do with something I’m passionate about like the topics concerning the (T) person we can no longer discuss here...lol

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Cherryfizz

I used to love posting on the Cooking Forum but once I joined FB I tended to post there instead. I received a lot of help, support and advice on the CF and the KT when I needed it and had some good laughs along the way and met some good people. I just might have to start reading the CF again because with extra people living with me I am really starting to dislike cooking haha

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annie1992

I've never posted anywhere except on Cooking and Harvest, and I normally refuse to even participate in any threads that include any other forums than Cooking or Harvest. I've been the target of posters who seem to try to be argumentative and insulting the few times I posted on Kitchen Table, and was insulted on the Tomatoes forum. Yeah, over tomatoes, so I just left and went outside and planted my tomatoes before my plants ever realized I was just too stupid to grow them and stopped giving me tomatoes, LOL. I don't even go to Harvest as much as I used to because of the cross-posting, there are numerous threads that have nothing to do with harvest or canning or preserving, it seems like posters want to spread their posts across as many forums as possible, even if it has no connection to the purpose of that forum.

I've also been here since the days of Spike, back when it was free, then when it cost $15 to join. At that point I was a single and newly divorced Mom and didn't have the $15, some kind anonymous member paid my membership so I could stay. I've personally met more than 30 members of the Cooking Forum over the years, and at one point I told my family that if I ever wanted to take a cross country drive I knew there was a couch and a kitchen in various places along the way if I needed either. The very first birthday party I ever had in my life was "virtual", thrown by the members of the Cooking Forum, who then sent me gifts. My local mail delivery person was astounded when I got packages from New Hampshire to California, and even one from Australia. It made me cry, because I was 50 years old and never had a birthday party before.

I don't participate in any of the social media, not Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or TikTok, mostly because they are time suckers and I don't have the free time to waste reading long Facebook missives starting with making coffee in the morning and ending with toothbrushing at night. (Yeah, I have a cousin in mind) Don't do blogs either, it's annoying and time consuming to have to see 15 pictures of the ingredients, 15 more of the poster's "sponsors" and then find that the recipe isn't there, there's a link to another blog where you start again. Same with Pinterest, just another time sucker and a dozen links to actually find a recipe or instructions. I'm just too impatient!

I miss a lot of the members who have been banned or have died or who have moved on to Facebook or other forums. AnnT, Chase, Diana, Gina, Scott, Lakeguy, Maureen, Lee, Janet, Nancy, Sherry, Evil Jessica, Eileen, SharonCB. (sigh) It was a small and tightly knit community then, we "knew" each other well enough to have swaps and get togethers, virtual cooking parties and double dog dare you to make XXXXX. It is different now...

I didn't participate in the Minestrone thread, but I did notice that the OP posted on What's for Dinner, asking for "plain" food. She explained that she was struggling with the likes/dislikes/requirements of other family members and was clearly frustrated. I thought perhaps more was going on than just that, but I am not surprised that forum members could not give her what she wanted as the requirements were quite rigid.

Annie

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Embothrium

The Seattle area green grocery chain I frequent has turkey meatloaf with tomato sauce over it as one of its regular deli items.

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Annegriet

I have always, always appreciated the advice given on this forum. I like reading KT each day. I have greatly appreciated it since the pandemic. It's one of the things that makes me feel less lonely. Thank you all of you!

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Jasdip

Amen, Annie1992!!!

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ILoveMod

Embothrium are you referring to PCC? I must know about this turkey meatloaf!

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Embothrium

Yes

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Lars

Annie, you forgot to mention the Renees; i.e. Renee Bubbe and ReneeKY. I liked both of them and talked with ReneeKY on the phone, but it was difficult to get a word in edgewise with her. I do also miss the rest of the ones you mentioned, and several of them live in L.A.

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salonva

I have been on these forums since the Spike days, but I don't remember ever paying. Maybe I just browsed them then? Maybe I wasn't as avid a user back then either, I don't know. I don't think I knew this particular Kitchen Table forum until much more recently. I find it very helpful 98% of the time. I have, over so many years, gotten together in person two times. Each time was very nice.

I have seen some snippiness at times,but overall I have enjoyed it. There are a very few who make nastiness and lashing out their way so I do understand how it can be so hurtful. I am sorry to see anyone be the focus of it and I am sorry someone feels that leaving is the way to go.


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l pinkmountain

I think the pay part was maybe to participate without the ads?

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glenda_al

Spike did impose a $15 fee at one time before he left.

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ILoveMod

by the way, I'm definitely in the camp of meatloaf with GRAVY. also, if it doesn't have Lipton's onion soup mix in it (or at least taste like it does), then it's trash.

my husband loves to cook and has been pushing us more and more towards clean ingredients. most of the time I'm ok with that, but we do have disagreements over the meatloaf. 🤣

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KaJaL

I lurked for quite awhile ,wondered whether I should post or not . I just can't get past a male poster that thinks he knows everything. Nope. Gonna move on ..

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chewydog

What a shame, Sherry. I've lurked for a long time and just made my first post to wish you well!

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Bumblebeez SC Zone 7

Some people do act like they know everything but I find it best to ignore their posts and not engage. They can't pop my balloon if I don't let them!

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kittymoonbeam

This world needs more comfort. Life is tough enough. This can be a place to smile and everyone has a bad day now and then. If I feel cranky, I try not to write on the internet. I go out and dig holes instead or build a new brick path. There were many sad days I found a reason to smile here :)

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olychick

Some things from certain posters are so predictable as to be laughable, which is what I've started doing when someone spouts off as an authority on every single subject. Because it is laughable. I would think there would be places much more appreciative of and benefit from that superior knowledge than here! Someone only gets your goat if you put it out there.

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cloudy_christine

I miss the way the cooking forum used to be, with a lot more posts and participants. Some of the liveliness is now in the "What's for Dinner" threads, but I don't participate in them. (Occasionally I look at everyone's dinners there, and I am impressed.)

I don't think it's true that there was a conflict-free time, though. I remember when I was on the kitchen forum (2002 and 2003) I thought I would move over here as I was finishing my kitchen. I took one look and saw that it was a war zone. I stayed away for quite a while.

People only have so much time. I remind myself of that when I'm missing some of the older members, and the sense of this place being "where everybody knows your name."

I also try to remember that people can change. One of the people I found really annoying seems to be different now. We should all remember that we don't know what other people may be dealing with.

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eld6161


When people say that things are not as active as in the past, it is because people forget that by lurking, you are not participating. You of course feel involved and engaged. But it means nothing to the rest of us.

To make a forum active everyone needs to check-in at some point. Even if it just a short sentence like, "Yes, I agree with the above poster." Or, offering support, "So sorry you are going through this."

I truly would like to understand why people lurk and never participate. Is anyone willing to explain?

I also don't get why anyone would let one or two "annoying" members be their decision to leave an otherwise friendly and helpful forum.


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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b

Some folks just feel shy.

I often do not comment on a conversation if I have nothing new to add. I will 'like' people's comments and topics though.

And I also choose to be amused by the emotionally/socially challenged among us.

They're like imaginary people - I'll never meet them IRL.

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lindac92

I started on the Garden Party, which is now pretty well defunct, which was pretty much a "party". It didn't cost anything to post, but periodically Spike would post about contributing $15 to "support this Rinky-Dink operation" and you would get a T-shirt, but eventually he did charge $15 to post....but there were no ads!
There were only af ew forums all having to do with gardening. The Party began having so many recipes and such that Spike began a cooking forum....and then that got full of conversation that was not about cooking, so the cooking forum discussions was created where anything goes.
At that time there was also an Australian Beer Garden which was again mostly conversation, but that eventually deteriorated to people checking in and inviting someone to "sit on their lap"...and then that person would check in.
Can't remember when the cooking forum was created......Spike stopped doing it all himself and hired a couple of monitors...one was named Tamera as I recall. and it seemed the policy was if anyone objected to something you said, they would tattle and Tamera would send a warning....or sometimes just shut you down.
Spike sold the "Business" because it had evolved from something run out of his apartment to a business that was worth millions. At one time I knew what he sold it for.
There are many many forums here that used to be active but because of the format are almost impossible to access....and really impossible to browse.

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Jasdip

People that complain that it's not as active as it used to be......well jump in and start a conversation. Those lurking, come out of lurkdom and join. The forum can only be what people want it to be.

As far as those few members that I get frustrated with, meh, no big deal, I'm certainly not going to let them drive me away from a forum which I love. Any more than someone in real life would make me move.

The OP made a comment that all of the food in the forum was too fancy, nothing that her dh would eat. We mentioned there were mashed potatoes, corn on the cob, baked chicken breast, soup, nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever.

I truly feel that a number of people in both the KT and Cooking Forum are friends. Several I'd love to meet.....we'd visit, I'd hug their dogs to death, help mend fences, help feed the animals, see the sights. Sigh, if only.

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eld6161

I agree with everything, Jasdip.

Showing support with the like button is great, but it doesn’t add to the discussion.

Carol, even if you have nothing new to add, it is still nice for us to know what you think, even if you are the tenth person who agrees that ‘X” poster should definitely talk to her SIL about.....

Side story: I admit to coming here and asking for advice on mundane things. I usually feel that everyone is going to agree with me so I am really seeking validation. Well, maybe one out of ten might agree. This is eye opening for me. And, my whole perspective is changed! I am better for it.

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yeonassky

What is so simple for some is not quite as simple for others. I struggle with conversations in real life. A public display of conversation is marginally to majorly intimidating. Plus I'm just not that quick and witty as many of you are here and many of the comments go over my head unless I read and reread.

Sometimes I overcome that. Most times I just support you all and what you were doing from afar with likes and attention. Yes I totally get it we are all supposed to participate in order to be a contributing member but it's just like the introvert at home, there but much quieter, and you can't change the introvert's spots.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b

TBH, I don't always have the time to comment, esp. if I'm on my phone with its tiny keyboard.

And then there are times when what I'm thinking would not be helpful at all...

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eld6161

Yeonassky, interesting that you say you struggle with conversations in real life because I don't get that impression here at all.

You seem to be a relatively active member here.

Carol, I agree. Does it have to be said? Does it have to be said now? Does it have to be said by me?

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whistle_b

Guilty as charged! I tend to lurk and like more than I comment, because most of the time I feel I don't have anything new to add. Maybe I'll change that.

I just don't understand all the angst on an online forum! I haven't seen any evidence of bullying. Just because someone doesn't agree with someone doesn't make it bullying! For goodness sakes, scroll on by. At times I think some replies are passive aggressive and maybe even baiting.

Ducking and running for cover just in case I've offended someone. ::))

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eld6161

Whistle, there are definitely people who seem to rub each other the wrong way and it is voiced sometimes.

Again even if all you say is that you are the tenth person to agree, it is still adding to the conversation.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b

Agreeing with whistle about overreacting. I've been doing this a long time, and learned years ago not to take things too seriously. It's nothing but words on a screen coming from imaginary people on the internet. Nobody can read my mind, or hear my words - they'll know only what I choose to post.

I do find that some things resonate, and I try to examine why that is before responding.

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jally

One thing's for sure, censorship here is neck & neck with social media's. I've had several posts disappear into thin air (i'd get responses in eNotifications, and when i'd click, i'd see they disappeared. Why - simply because i posted some genuine issues? The www these days is upside down just like Sodom of long ago. It's like many people who frequent this forum, consider it to be "dangerous" that this country might change for the better. And by that, i don't mean high-tech, glamour, or space-travel. I mean policies of justice.

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Bumblebeez SC Zone 7

I remember years ago when the contentiousness was mostly limited to cooking disagreements. I am fully on board with keeping all politics somewhere else, after all there are still places for that and keeping the forums nice. It has nothing to do with what topics are currently relevant in the world.

Ok, here's one some might remember :-)

We had a feisty opinionated contributor years ago, who I liked, but could definitely provoke insanity among other cooks. This person would take chicken ALREADY COOKED and bread and fry it. Considering people reuse roasted chicken all the time in legitimate recipes, this idea wasn't a biggie but it got a lot of fire.

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HamiltonGardener

Some people take their dinner seriously.


Could have been worse. Someone might have suggested we put bread in the compost pile.

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smiling

And, as I recall, the delightful woman who would recoil in horror at the idea of bread in the compost pile would also occasionally irk Spike (to the point of teacup trips) with references to the leader (P**e) of one of the world's major religions. Those who didn't know those days won't understand, and I think that's part of what Sherry was saying in her OP.

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heatheron40

Ok, in trying to participate and be active, I'm going to ask a dumb question that might stir things up: that is not my intention, but I'm dying to know. Why can't you compost bread? I do it when it molds....

P.s. my mom only knew how to use ketchup on meatloaf. I had never heard of gravy until I was an adult;^)

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Elizabeth

Bread, pasta and bakery products attract rodents and other pests.

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maifleur03

Which I always laugh at when I hear or read about things attracting rodents and other pests because compost by it's nature attracts rodents etc. A good compost should have worms which all kinds of things eat.

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Lucille

A good compost should have worms which all kinds of things eat.

I bet a nice little business could be set up by selling European worms, you know how those Europeans love their pasta and pastry and it stands to reason they would have worms better equipped to handle such compost.



(jk)

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HamiltonGardener

Heatheron,

Try searching through compost forum for “bread” and “annpat”.

Read 10 or so of the resulting threads.


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heatheron40

Thank you Maifleur and Elizabeth! Hmmm, I always just figured the same rodents who would want bread, would want my apple core too. Now the occasional catfood that doesn't get eaten is what the infrequent racoon or possum come check out ;^)

Thanks again!

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Olychick

I keep my compost in a raised tumble barrel and put everything in it including bread and meat..no rodents can get into it. I put some soil into it and it naturally spawned worms and soon turned into a worm composter making the best worm castings.

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

Sorry, but compost by its nature does not attract rodents!! If using the right ingredients in good proportions, there is nothing in it to attract them. Grass clippings, fallen leaves, yard waste and garden trimmings and even kitchen scraps in proper proportions are not appealing to rodents. That's why one is advised not to include wildlife attracting ingredients to the compost pile like protein sources, dairy products, cooking oils or grease and breads and pastas. Add those kinds of materials to a compost and you will attract things a lot worse than a rodent or two!!

If you want to know more about composting and why bread is strongly discouraged, come hang out on the Compost, Soils and Mulch forum!

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bbstx

@heatheron40, I’m glad you asked. I, too, was curious.

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maifleur03

gardengal I wish you would tell the possums and raccoons that visit mine especially after a rain that they are doing something wrong since they apparently should not like finding tibbits. Mine is slow composted and is only made up of leaves, branches, and weeds.

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joyfulguy

Sometimes a good idea to develop a thicker emotional skin, to let the bullies have their opinion, smile, shrug our shoulders and get on with our lives as we've chosen to live them.

What with covid necessitating us to shop infrequently, especially those of us who've bid the 80s farewell, sometimes bread gets mouldy.

If it's not too bad, I've been known to toast it and drop it into a frying pan working on scrambling eggs. I like maple syrup on it occadionally, or ketchup, but not at the same time. Regular syrup's O. K., for those of you who don't like the stuff from a tree, preferring the stuff from beets, cane, corn, etc.

The heavily mouldy bread and other mouldy or otherwie disreputable stuff goes into the compost pile, at the side of the garden, a couple of hundred feet from the house. By the way - I need to throw some more dirt on it prior to freeze-up: a smidgeon of snow yesterday and this morning.

Hope you all had a happy Halloween: mine was like each of the fifteen years that I've been here: no tricks or treaters.

By the way, isn't that a bit of a threatening game: "Give us a treat - or we'll soap your windows or mess up your place in some way"!

When I was young, it was "Tricks for Treats" and the kids recited a poem, sang a song, did a dance or something to justify or merit the reward. "Give and take", rather than "Give ...or else"!

ole joyfuelled ... thankful to have avoided covid, thus far

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

I'm not sure what your point is. Neither possums or raccoons are rodents but they are also not much interested in a vegetative matter only compost....except for whatever invertebrates it may contain. And only then if other, more preferable food sources are not available.

And they will also do the same anywhere else in the garden that has rich soil life.

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Embothrium

It is disturbing to open your compost bin and watch a rat scamper out! We have been getting inquiries about how to manage compost to avoid rat problems. Although it is almost impossible to completely rat-proof your compost, here are methods and suggestions for bin types that can help minimize the problem.

https://extension.wsu.edu/whatcom/hg/rats-in-compost/

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maifleur03

Last time I checked possums and raccoons were both considered wildlife which is my point.

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lindac92

Sooo...? What's the matter with wild critters digging in your compost? Mine is waaaay down in back and I don't put meat in it....but occasionally will put a bare bone or so and shrimp and crab shells. But I put stale and slightly moldy bread and crackers under the bird feeder especially for the critters.
And where do you get gravy for meatloaf? Do you make it from pan drippings? or dump it from a jar? Ketchup goes on meatloaf...or mayo if it's cold in a sandwich.

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

Re mouldy bread. If you use sliced bread freeze it and takeout only the amount you need at any one time. If you use whole loaves cut them into sections before freezing. If it’s merely stale and not mouldy there are loads of recipes which will use it up.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b

Thanks for the trip down memory lane ☺

I thought anne's aversion to composting bread was because it gave her the heebie jeebies...?

And we've got lots of Asian roof rats in this coastal, suburban, heavily built up, populous area. They like fruit and get into everything!

Saw one running across the street & up someone's driveway just the other night.

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annie1992

I have a farm, so of course I have all kinds of "creatures", from possums and raccoons to bears and eagles. Lots of mice, groundhogs, chipmunks, gophers, coyotes, stray cats, fox, whatever. As long as they don't ruin my garden, kill my chickens, eat the eggs, etc., I leave them be. Of course, my "compost bin" is a pile of cow manure about 8 feet tall, everything goes there when the barns are cleaned, and the few scraps that aren't consumed by chickens, cattle or the horse go into that pile. In the alternative, I have some raspberries, strawberries, asparagus, garlic and horseradish in beds behind the house. I just dig a trench, dump the stuff in there and bury it. Anything that might cause the bears to visit goes in the manure pile as encouraging them is asking for trouble. Newspaper is used as a layer under mulch between rows.

As for cooking arguments, I stopped at the local coffee shop to get one of their lattes for my Mother last week. Question of the day was "how long does it take to hard boil an egg". I laughed and told the barista that it was a question which could spur two days worth of discussion on the Cooking Forum, LOL.

Annie

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LoneJack Zn 6a, KC

AnnPat sure didn't like the cute little Planarians that would grow on the composting bread!

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Embothrium

Black rat

It is a generalist omnivore and a serious pest to farmers because it feeds on a wide range of agricultural crops....

Black rats (or their ectoparasites[22]) can carry a number of pathogens,[23] of which bubonic plague (via the Oriental rat flea), typhus, Weil's disease, toxoplasmosis and trichinosis are the best known....

Rats serve as outstanding vectors for transmittance of diseases because they can carry bacteria and viruses in their systems. A number of bacterial diseases are common to rats, and these include Streptococcus pneumoniae, Corynebacterium kutsheri, Bacillus piliformis, Pasteurella pneumotropica, and Streptobacillus moniliformis, to name a few. All of these bacteria are disease causing agents in humans. In some cases, these diseases are incurable.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_rat#:~:text=The%20black%20rat%20%28Rattus%20rattus%29%2C%20also%20known%20as,light%20brown%20in%20colour%20with%20a%20lighter%20underside.

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annpat

Obviously, it's an aesthetic consideration---the prohibition against bread. It has nothing to do with critters or mold. It's the puff! It's the sog! I've brought up this example so many times, it's getting tired, but...have you ever seen a hot dog eating contest, the ones with the chaser glasses of bread slurry? It's a lot like that.

I've been a member since 1998, but, smiling, I didn't go to Disney bringing up the p0pe. That was Metaxa. I got in trouble complaining about the consequent thread removal. Boy! That used to tick me off seeing those Micky Mouse ears downloading an inch at a time on my very slow dial up.

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lindac92

I've lived in Farm country a very long time and never seen a black rat....nor a brown one for that matter. Grew up near the City....and did see a rat or so in the subway and around garbage cans.
But sure have never seen a rat near my compost bin. However bears in a garbage dump...buzzards on road kill...yep!

but black rats?? Really?? Where do you live??

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Embothrium

Black rats occur only in maritime areas. Brown (Norway) rats however do not have that limitation. And of course there are native rat species present in rural areas also.

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smiling

Hi annpat, nice to "see" you after all these years! So sorry for my error in recall about the p0pe thread. (Didn't someone add to that thread just a 3 word post: "P0pe, P0pe, P0pe!"? Was that you?) That old compost forum was SO much fun while it lasted, and it was a great teacher, too.

Thanks for the memory about Metaxa!

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annpat

No, I didn't say, P0pe, P0pe, etc., I wrote a long post about it being my Aunt Leola's birthday in the same thread, and could not believe it when it posted for a second, then the entire thread was yanked. I wrote something about "people" getting a little high-handed, dusted my hands off and was shocked the next day to see those Micky Mouse ears unfolding. It was years before I was able to get in with a new name.

A large group of us, smiling, from the early days still hang out with each other---on a forum and in real life. We have get togethers every couple of years and one of the women---Miss Ellie---actually bought a summer place on my road after one of the group gatherings here in Maine.

About five people traveled up to British Columbia, once, and were royally hosted by Metaxa. When people come here, I do this fun thing where I act like a guest and treat my guests like they're the host and they do all the cooking, etc.

Hayseedman and I hang out sometimes and have gone island camping together a few times.

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tami_ohio

I have to say that I rarely check KT or CF anymore, mainly KT, just because of the constant bickering. It just isn't fun anymore. I miss the old days, and those who are gone from this life who helped make it what it was. When I first posted on CF, I was very intimidated, but since have been warmly welcomed, and have met Annie in person. Hi! Annie! Miss you. THink of you often when we are in MI, though haven't been anywhere near you in a few years.

And, like Yeonassky (hope I spelled that right, I just went back up to see, and forgot again!) I struggle with conversation, in real life, and on line. The words I speak, and type rarely express my thoughts/feelings the way I want them to, so I just tend not to comment at all, or at the very most, say the absolute least I can. Those I have met in person were just like meeting old friends, which made it much easier to talk to, though!

And the cross posting between forums is very confusing to me. I am confused enough without that.

My 2 cents worth, but I don't find the KT friendly and welcoming anymore.

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wednesday morning

I stepped away from the forum because , after cleaning the cache on my computer and losing my saved password, it became an absolute rabbit hole to get back in again and it still does not work all the time taht I don't get told to sign in when I am already signed in. I just gave up , but came to this click on the computer this morning and here I am. The next forum taht I try to access will probably tel me to sign in again when I am already signed in. I just don't know what is happening and tried to eliminate everything and start all over again and that is a mixed bag, too. I just gave up.

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maifleur03

Wednesday morning I find that I have to be signed into both Gardenweb and Houzz. No reason why and it should not be but welcome back.

To read messages I must be signed into Houzz. To post I can be signed into either.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b

@ tami - don't doubt yourself! Your post is perfectly understandable and well written 🙂

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annie1992

Tami!!! I'm happy to "see" you again too. If you ever get even close to me, let me know, I'd drive to meet you somewhere, I miss you. COVID cases are spiking up here in Michigan again, but it'll all be under control someday and we can visit again.

annpat, I never got sent to Disney, but I got a couple of "stern warnings" from Spike. One was for mentioning that I had voted for Ralph Nader in the past. I was warned that there would be no talk of politics. I somewhat cheekily informed Spike that Nader wasn't really a politician so it shouldn't count. Then I got a "stern warning", so I decided to let it go. (grin) Actually, it was a very contentious thread, I forget what it was even about, but threads were limited to 100 comments and then they were closed A couple of us were just going back and forth with the last four comments to reach 100, trying to close the thread before people got too mad at each other.

Annie


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lindac92

I remember that....LOL!!!

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tami_ohio

Thank you, Carolb.


Annie! Are the phone numbers I have still the same? We were supposed to go to a RV rally in Luddington, but we all know that didn't happen. We just got a new to us 40' Class A diesel pusher. It sure feels a lot bigger than our 30' gas job! It's in Alabama, and still needs some repairs to it, but it is road worthy. It looks like DH is finally going to retire (for the second time!) next month, and we will be going down for the winter, and finish the repairs. I sure hope things go back to "normal" soon!

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annpat

I remember the first time I met people. Six SCM women came here in 2003, ranging in age from 32 to 60. We had never seen so much as a photo of each other, and it was very awkward to meet people that you had a surprisingly close relationship with, but have never laid eyes on, and interesting that we had no idea how old people were. Sassy showed up here and was a baby! After a few wines, we were howling with laughter---talking about all you guys who weren't there---and it started feeling like what it really was---friends who'd known each other forever. The next night, we skinny-dipped under a warm July full moon.

We once gathered, about 24 of us at a campground in Maryland, and two years ago, I drove to South Carolina, showed up at Joule's house, went for a sailboat ride on Lake Murray, and was back in my campground a few hours later. Some people have visited Wavesmom in California, and she once rented Miss Ellie's cottage at the end of my road. People I met here in 1997-98 have become my best friends. Unbelievable really. Hayseedman's been here; I've been to his house. He makes me go dancing. I make him go to islands.

Sherry, sorry it's not as much fun. We all know what you mean.




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annie1992

Tami, I think you have all my current information and telephone numbers, I haven't changed anything in the 6 years since I've moved here to the farm. I'd LOVE to hear from you, after everything calms down and life becomes a little more "normal", of course!

We've had a lot of get togethers too, Canning Camp here, Bread Camp in Tennessee, I went to California and learned to eat sushi, more of us met in Chicago. My daughter used to call the Forum my "imaginary friends" and was a little apprehensive when I told Evil Jessica that she could stay a week at my house with her two sons when she came from California, LOL. It all worked out fine, of course. We filled my yard with campers for The Michigan Run and rented a house to help Sheshebop get her house ready to sell when her husband died. I've met some wonderful people...

Annie

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annpat

Were you always Annie?

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annie1992

I've always been annie1992, but I only post to Harvest and Cooking. I started on Harvest, found some kindred spirits there. I have a big garden and being a farm kid, I've always canned a lot. This year I hit over 1,000 jars again. The grandkids teased me about being a "prepper", LOL, I told them that it was what farmers have always done.

Then the pandemic hit and one granddaughter said "if we run out of anything we'll go live with Grandma and PaPaw, they have enough food for 2 years". (grin)

I don't "do" the gardening forums much because I only grow fruits and vegetables, nothing decorative for the deer to eat other than flowers in the gardens for the pollinators. My gardening procedure is to spread a layer of manure from my grassfed beef cattle, let it sit all winter, work it in when spring comes, toss some seeds into the ground and walk away. I do the same thing with fruit trees, dig a hole, fill it with composted cow manure, stick a tree in and walk away. (shrug) It works for me, but I don't have any real "techniques" or recipes for compost or such. My weed killers are a hoe, a flock of chickens and the grandkids, who get paid per bug for picking potato beetles or tomato worms. My gardens are about an acre and I also have 200 asparagus crowns, 100 strawberry plants, a couple dozen raspberry canes, a garlic bed and fruit trees. Apple, pear, sweet cherry, sour cherry, peach and plum. Some are young and have not yet fruited, but they are all growing well despite my very benign neglect.

Annie

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cloudy_christine

Annie, do you still hear from Sherry (Sheshebop)? I hope she's doing well.

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annie1992

CC, I haven't heard from her in a while. She moved into a condo to be closer to her daughter, then sold the condo and moved into a place on a lake. She's on Facebook but I am not, and she hasn't answered my emails, but I think she's been very busy moving and with family issues. I miss her, though.

Annie

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b

FWIW, life in general isn't as much fun any more - IME...

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tami_ohio

Carol, that is so true.

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