Stick-framed barn home?
Umakant Kori
3 years ago
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res2architect
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoPatricia Colwell Consulting
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoRelated Discussions
Excaliber steel frame for barn/garage/apartmt
Comments (9)Terry, What you quoted is a paragraph of wishful thinking written by a cheerleader for their product, who doesn't really know what they are talking about. Here are a few things that jump out at me: "This is a reduction in heat transfer paths of 600 to 800 per cent." Imagine that you were interviewing a "bookkeeper" who told you that 2+2=5. That would be a clue that he doesn't have a grasp of even the most basic fundamentals, right? The quoted statement is the same thing: It is impossible to reduce anything by more than 100%. Anyone who is competent to analyze thermal performance understands that at a level that is as fundamental as a bookkeeper understanding that 2+2 is not 5. For this reason, I feel confident in deducing that the person who wrote that statement has absolutely no clue about what they are talking about. "The 8" exterior wall studs on red iron homes are 24" o.c verses 16" o.c. for stick built homes which reduces the load paths through the walls by 33 per cent." This is the crux of the problem. The thermal conductivity of steel is much higher than wood. I don't have numbers easily at hand, but I believe that the thermal conductivity of a typical steel stud is around ten times that of an equivalent wood stud. So, if you reduce the number of studs by 33%, you've reduced that 10x down to 6.66x, which is still a big loss, not a gain. Further, it is now common to build wood-framed houses with exterior studs on 24" centers, so the basic premise is faulty. "One thing they are all having is greatly reduced heating and cooling costs resulting from a high effective SYSTEM R value due to efficient design." That is just flat out a false statement. The only way it could possibly be true is if they tore down an existing house, and replaced with a new house that is completely identical except for having a steel frame, and then compared the two. I highly doubt that this is what they are talking about. They might be talking about people who are saying, in essence, "Our heating bills are much lower than the (uninuslated) 1950's tract house that we moved out of." Or, given what I typically see in marketing, it is not unlikely that the above statement is, "This is what we think our customers would tell us, if we asked them, which we actually didn't take the time to do prior to writing this up." It is possible to make steel structures perform well. The person who wrote the statement you quoted, in my opinion based solely on that statement, is not qualified to be able to do that. The existence of that statement as a representation of the company's capabilities makes me suspect that there in no one else at the company who is capable of it, either. Now, on to your questions: "But since I am going to be living IN the roof space, I suspect I'll want all the insulation I can get up there...rather than the system they just described??. Good thermal performance is a lot more complicated than just throwing a lot of insulation at the problem. Insulation is typically greatly compromised by leakage paths of various sorts. The challenge is controlling the leakage paths. "And will asphalt architectual shingles on 3/4 inch plywood make a difference? ( as opposed to a steel roof)." It will make a small difference. Not enough to materially change the performance of the structure....See MoreUsing SIPS for an addition on a stick-built house?
Comments (2)I would talk to the sips supplier. IIRC from talking to sips suppliers at a home show a few years ago that it is done all the time. At one time I was comtemplating adding on to a house we owned and using sip panels. You would have less time in getting the addition closed in to the weather. I doubt that you would have to beef up the first story to support it other than the floor joists. i don't believe it wieghs much more than stick framing. Like I said, talk to the sips supplier, they should be able to recomend contractors to do the addition. The addition I had planned was a ground floor addition and they told me I could have done the work of setting the panels myself with the help of a couple of friends. They would supply an onsite consultant for a fee....See MoreFloor plan for pole barn house
Comments (50)It seems like some of your plans for cost savings involve family/friends being willing to do the work for you. That's great, but it seems like it would also apply if you build a more traditional style house; you don't have to have a pole barn to get help from an electrician in the family. You mention that things are more relaxed and you don't necessarily have to follow code, but remember that the code is there not just to bother and limit you, but to keep you safe. Blithely ignoring it can be dangerous. As Sophie points out, being on a well makes it even more important you make sure waste is disposed of correctly. Give your family the gift of modern, sanitary indoor plumbing, even if it costs more. Listen to Janni's point about a 50x50 v. 40x60 house. Rectangles generally lend themselves to better layouts than squares do. Then, price out your pole barn concept (built to code) v. a traditional stick built concept (built to code) in the same basic rectangle. In both cases, factor in the savings from of electrical work done by a family member, butcher block from the high school shop class, etc.. If the pole barn is still cheaper, go for it. You might be surprised, however, to find that it's not....See MoreStick or Truss Roof Frame?
Comments (4)In order to compare two structural systems you must describe them in more detail. I suspect the trusses are at 24" o.c. and the rafters are at 16" o.c., otherwise the two methods would have the same sheathing span and the same resistance to sagging (assuming the sheathing is the same). Obviously, the sheathing material is very important. The edges of OSB do not return to their original thickness and tend to lose bending strength after getting throughly wet so OSB requires the immediate installation of underlayment (over a dry deck) or the use of Huber Zip sheathing or the use of AdvanTech or the use of plywood. In any case, roof sheathing should always be thicker than 1/2" (now often 7/16"). But IMO the most important reason to use rafters is the ability to use the attic space. The desire to do that is so common in New England that I've only seen roof trusses in multi-family construction and tract house developments. I always platform frame the attic floor and rest the rafters on a plate at the edge of the platform in order to increase the height of the eaves and the ridge. This detail is especially important for one story houses. I also insulate the rafters and seal the attic space. I also double up some rafters for future dormers some of which are added during construction when the owners see the upper level space and the view from it. Good design is mostly about recognizing opportunities and an attic is an obvious one.....See MoreUmakant Kori
3 years agoD B
3 years agoSeabornman
3 years agores2architect
3 years agoLittle Bug
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoUmakant Kori
3 years agoSeabornman
3 years agores2architect
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoD B
3 years agores2architect
3 years agolast modified: 3 years ago
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