Just so there is no confusion, Tom, I have no interest in wood "production" in my conifer groves either. They are purely for my own personal enjoyment. All of my advice is based on what I imagine is the potential for a forest that will be beautiful to walk through/sit under, etc. And, I guess, I am a bit conservative. If I haven't seen a forest of a specific species planted in our general area and seen the results, and/or at least know how fast a tree will grow, I won't recommend it. There is a tremendous investment involved, not only in planting and tending to the trees to get them going, but also the land. And perhaps most important, the time. Maybe you are something like 35 years old--you plant something, wait 30 years, and then find out it is nothing like what you hoped for. Well, that's it, you don't get a second chance. I will guarantee you can have a beautiful cathedral-like forest well on its way in 35 years with Norway Spruce, White pine, and to a bit lesser degree, red pine. European, Japanese, and Marschlinsii (hybrid) larch will certainly grow fast enough. Just what a forest will look like--its actual beauties--I am not sure about. But I would commit to some decent larch plantings also. Beyond that, I would be cautious--I just don't know of anything. But there may be other things. Your idea of ponderosa pine may be promising. Any other firs than the Colorado? Would Nordmann do OK there? It may be faster. Maybe Resin can suggest something. And, one of the most beautiful trees in the whole wide world is Oriental spruce--Picea orientalis. Probably 90% of the people that see Oriental spruce and Norway spruce together, would prefer the Oriental spruce for its denser and more fine textured foliage. Some trees have a wonderful weep also. It is a terrible slow starter compared to NS, but after that is grows well. Slower than NS almost always, but probably faster than the Colorado fir. Another spruce that is nice--I don't want to praise this one too much--is white spruce. A bit slow, but I have some groves of this also and they are nice. But I guess that when I can plant Norway spruce, I would skip this one, unless I was going for variety. Of course You have the Thuja, which you love, and which I love also. If I were younger I might plant a forest of Green Giants. I know you want to have some things that are different from what you usually see, so that is a motivation you have that for me has been only a small one. I want the forest "cathedral," and for that, NS and white pine are the "horses." Well, to sum up, in your place I would experiment and plant lots of things. But if I primarily wanted a forest cathedral kind of environment, I would plant much larger plots of NS and white pine, then smaller quarter acre plots of other interesting possibilities. Or maybe just groups of "specimen" trees." --Spruce

Thanks for the replies Resin, Dax and coniferfreak. I am attaching a photo so hopefully that will help. I doubt the yellowish discoloration on the needles is anything that anyone would want. It almost looks like some kind of nutrient problem, but again, all the other concolors were given the same fertilizer, water, light, soil mixture, etc. and this is the only one with the yellowish needles. The seedlings are 2 years old and about 6 inches tall. I recall last fall it has the same yellowish coloring. It only appears to be on the current years growth. Thanks. Dave

Thank you, bredren......Okay, I'll add my own (sic). Dax, your idea is a good one, but I want to start these here at home in my postage stamp yard and eventually, following what I presume may be a couple three years, make the move northward with these guys. Alright, that didn't come out right-sounds like I'm planning to move up there, which I've already been told, is not likely! The trees I mean. It seems likely to me, given the glacial pace of fir growth at the earliest stages, that I can nurse them along better right here. I've done this with various volunteer seedlings that I find at work, getting them to a movable size and then, transplanting them up on the big property. Sluice, if the little, just sprouted seedlings are still there in the spring, I'ma scoop them up, plant in little pots, nurse them along under relatively controlled conditions here at home, and then, transplant up north. I did just this with a number of spruce and larch volunteers already, to good results. Is there anything amiss in my natural, over-winter stratification scheme? Also, what is a good way to free the seeds from their accompanying scales? Not a big deal really, but if there is a simple technique, I'd love to hear about it. Soak in warm water? Thanks.......+oM

if you want pix of cones.. find a 'birder' .. a person who has a camera made for taking pix of small birds at distance and height .. i do not have the knowledge to take said pic against a sunlight blue sky.. i bet a filter was involved.. as well as a ginormous telescopic lens ... pix from my friend carol wolf ... seriously.. i have no clue how she got such clarity.. while standing on the ground.. and snapping a shot 10 feet above her head [2 of the pix] ... lets just write it off to having a real camera.. and experience ... and of course.. talent took me 2 days to find them in the Picea folder.. whats that all about ... lol ... these are not the pix i referred to previously.. again.. those are for another day ... its too early.. and my pupils are vibrating from coffee.. to tell if they are duplicates .. or double shots.. to insure a clean pic ... ken