Hail Mary Microwave questions: shelf clearances, blocking OTR MW vent

3 years ago

DH is set to be home the next two weeks finishing up our kitchen remodel. He's been building all the cabinets and we're racing the weather because his workshop isn't heated. We've gone back and forth on an OTR MW. Once I settled on my final design I wanted a hood because the range was just adjacent to a window with wood trim. However, we'd originally purchased an OTR when we bought our appliances when we first moved in and DH has always pushed to use it. I'd finally got him to agree to a hood awhile back but then I started talking about getting a convection microwave in the hope of replacing my toaster oven and air fryer and he said get an OTR one and he'd resize the window trim for me so it wasn't so close, so tripped right back into that! After looking into it more I decided the convection mw wouldn't replace those things so not worth the expense. I've been trying to finish up the plan before he gets home tomorrow and any time I think about it I just can't like the OTR so I'm going to make one more attempt to convince him on the hood, but I don't know how moveable he'll be at this point so I'll need a strong alternative plan if there is any hope.

If I can convince him to do the hood I still need a place for the microwave. I don't want it on the counter but I do have a single wall cabinet, currently slated to be 29"W x 15"D that it could go in.

Here are my options:

1) Make that cabinet a bit longer and hang the OTR MW there. With 15" deep cabinet this would actually block the vent in the door, but does this actually matter? We wouldn't be using it for ventilation there however does it still vent out steam that way from cooking? The other problem with this solution is that there is currently no dedicated outlet there and he's put his foot down about doing any more wiring.

2) This brings me to the second option, which is doing an open shelf in the bottom part of that cabinet and putting a countertop microwave there. This is were I'm getting really frustrated. After a couple years of looking at kitchen pictures and seeing about a millions pictures of countertop microwaves tucked into little cubbies that just fit them I'm now seeing that is completely false advertising! All the specs I can find on these countertop microwaves all want ridiculous clearances around them, which I know many are not even getting on the counter (12" above-Come-on!). I can easily make sure there is at least 4" on the sides and probably about 3" on the top but to fit on a 14" shelf I'd have to push a countertop MW to the back wall. Is there truly a problem with this? This is exactly what I've always done with any countertop microwave I've had just without sidewalls.

Help me convince him! Also, cross you fingers that the weather holds and we can finish this because we are about a year and half into this (and that's just the building part) and I"m so over it!

Featured Answer

kaseki

3 years ago

Vent hoods shouldn't dump air onto a porch or deck. If necessary to duct in that direction, the duct should either turn upward and dump exhaust well above the deck, or run across the porch rafters to a point past the roof overhang. Best to also consider ducting options from the point of view of prevailing wind direction to keep the effluent from impinging on windows or people.

Comments (12)

PRO
HALLETT & Co.
3 years ago
I’m a little concerned that the microwave is so close to the wall that the window requires new trim. The range is pushed all the way in the corner with no cabinet next to it? To your question a hood removes cooking smells etc better than a micro hood because it has a much larger collection area. Micro hoods have the advantage of fitting two appliances in one space, but kind of ruining both (it’s a terrible height for a microwave). Kitchens are always about compromise unless they are large. Do you have a plan you can share?
Forever Now
Original Author
3 years ago
@HALLETT & Co. no its not next to a wall it has a 36" corner cabinet next to it. The window the range is next to had really wide trim and the floor and walls of our old house were so of unlevel that when installing the cabinets the range ended up being moved a couple inches closer than planned so there was only about 2"to the side of the window frame. Here is a picture I took where I propped a panel up where an OTR MW/cabinet would be installed to get a better sense of how close:

We took the trim off and sized it down. Here's how it looked a couple weeks ago after we got the back of the kitchen faces installed and stained the new trim. it still has painters tape around it here making it look slightly wider still. It is currently 4" from the range edge line. This also gives a good idea of my space layout. (the island has since been finished as well but I don't have a good overall picture with that so don't mind the curtains. That fan is not staying either.):

You don't have to sell ME on a hood. I understand why it's better, the problem is my builder (aka DH) just doesn't. As far as he's concerned we have an OTR microwave lets use it. I was so tired of fighting the fight a couple weeks ago I finally gave in but I spent the last couple of weeks researching microwaves and trying to figure out how It might work there and I want to try one last time to convince him. We've been in this house now for three years and we've had no venting for that range during this time. I don't do much stove top cooking and hardly any pan frying so it's rarely been an issue, which is all the evidence he needs. What I need to convince him is a solid plan for where the microwave goes instead and in the wall cabinet, planned where I currently have a MW, is the only place besides the countertop it could go:

This spot had worked good. My kids are tall, my 10 year old can easily access it. The 7 year old needs a stool to easily reach in but he only uses it once in a blue moon to heat a hot dog for :30 seconds. I think by the time he'd have any reason to use it more he'd be tall enough. The only place on the countertop it would fit is in the corner by the range. I had it there this winter and it was a terrible spot! Hard to access.

I think I prefer the idea of an open shelf in the bottom of the wall cabinet. It seems more flexible and if you ever didn't want a microwave there you could put on longer doors and just have a regular cabinet. The stated clearances for these countertop MWs though tend to want a lot of space behind and above. GEs stated the least which was 3" to top and sides and 1" behind which is reasonable except all their countertop MWs are too deep. I'd like to find a way to make it work.
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kaseki
3 years ago
Sharp manufactures an over-the-counter (OTC) microwave oven that partly hangs from a plate on the wall and partly from the bottom of the cabinet above it. It has all the clearance it needs built in as well as [modest] lights underneath.

An OTR microwave over the range will ventilate little, as you apparently know. Direct DH's attention to considering his future time to be spent cleaning your kitchen ceiling, walls, and cabinets every few weeks/months/years depending on your cooking and tolerance for greasiness. Then there is fabric replacement elsewhere in the house, depending on the sensitivity of your sense of smell.
Forever Now
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks @kaseki, I have seen that microwave, it would be small to hang under the wall cabinet we have planned there, which would mean customizing it to it. I'm hoping to avoid too much customizing to a microwave, but it is a possibility. Do you have any idea about my question with regard to blocking the OTR MW top vent if its not being used for ventilation? I can call GE tomorrow and ask them but did wonder if anyone knew.
Forever Now
Original Author
3 years ago
Oh and DH wouldn't take any threats to have to clean later to heart, but he is rightfully attached to his cabinets because of all the work he has put into them. Perhaps appealing to him with regards to keeping them in better shape would work. Thanks for the suggestion!
acm
3 years ago
I don't see any ducting for ventilation -- if you convince him to install a hood, how is it going to be vented to the outside? Looks like the duct would have to go out through a porch or dining room, which isn't small surgery. If you're not able to vent to the outside and are just talking about a recirculating fan, then you might as well use the OTR microwave (and open the window when you fry something). Recirculation is basically no venting, and it definitely isn't removing the products of combustion that your rangetop will create!

Beautiful cabinets, by the way. You're a lucky woman!
Forever Now
Original Author
3 years ago
Yes! He went for it! The only thing is he is hating the idea of putting the microwave in that wall cabinet next to the door pictured above. He's talking about hanging it from the easy reach corner cabinet we plan to put in the corner by the range. I'm not thrilled with that idea, as I mentioned that corner is hard to access, you can't actually get in front of the microwave in that corner when it is against either wall. I think it would be hard for the kids especially.

@acm thank you! He's done a really nice job on them. There is no duct there yet. If we'd have done the OTR MW we would not have bothered venting but since we're going to do a hood now (yay!) we will. We can't take it straight up and out through the roof because there is a second floor. We have two options: There is a room out behind the kitchen a "sunroom" that is lower than the kitchen level. We would have to either take it to the very top of the wall and then out right under the ceiling and then it would come out above the roof of that room, or we could take the vent straight back into that room and then up through the ceiling from in there. We have time to figure that out, the main thing is getting the cabinets built before the weather gets too cold for finish to cure. Though cutting vents before it gets too cold would probably be a good idea too!
kaseki
3 years ago
To answer the question, I can't. Run the microwave with the hood function off (if there is a control for that) and see if air is still blown out the duct interface. Alternatively, look for and test other perforated areas that might dump magnetron cooling air. Do not block the cooling air, wherever it comes out.
acm
3 years ago
a range vent doesn't have to go up, so straight back and out the side of the porch wall (near the roof) is fine. better to have fewer turns, for both range hood and dryer.
acm
3 years ago
I don't understand the layout of your intended wall cabinets, but I like where you have the microwave on the spindly legs right now -- accessible, out of the way, etc. Maybe you could get a slim under-cabinet microwave to hang in that or a similar position.

Over the Counter Microwave, Black · More Info

Sharp 24" Over the Counter Microwave · More Info

You can probably sell your OTR on Craigs List, or give it to the Habitate Store (Restore) for a tax deduction.
Forever Now thanked acm
Forever Now
Original Author
3 years ago
@acm I hadn’t thought about into the sunroom then out the side. That would be easiest, but would mean two bends. I’ll have to look into that. For wall cab plans, If you can make out my very hastily (not to scale) drawing. We have one hanging cabinet planned between our front door and window and an easy reach corner wall cabinet (the kind that wraps around corner, not angled) in the corner next to the range. The picture with the MW on the metal shelf is where that first wall cabinet would be and I agree that is the best spot. I’ve liked it there. It’s very accessible, you have a place to set things when you take them out. Its close to my cooking area but not right in it.

This morning I told DH we absolutely could not hang a MW under the corner cabinet. It’s such a bad spot. You can’t actually get in front of things in that corner. I can’t imagine trying to pull hot things out of a MW from to the left or right of it. That does sound dangerous. He has agreed to put it in the wall cabinet that corresponds to where I have it now, but only if it can be inside the cabinet. The cabinets are shaker but he is definitely throwing in some craftsman elements and he really wants to try to get that uniform look that you see in craftsman furniture. This has been really hard because our space is odd and in order to make it work symmetry has had to go out the window. He is wanting to try to make the uppers as uniform as possible. I’ve done lots of sketching trying to figure out how things will work. Here is one when I was trying to imagine how to make the microwave not look completely out of place there above the range ending at the window. I just could not do that to my satisfaction. A hood will not only be more functional but it will look so much nicer in that spot.

Here I adjusted a drawing to make the wall cabinet have an open shelf for the MW. He doesn’t like how that it would make our only two wall cabinets no longer match in style, which I get. I’m not super excited about the idea of having to open a door to use the microwave, but I’ll do if I have to. I’ll work on him some more first and see if I can get him to come around to either an open shelf or a built in. GE does have a smallish MW that can be built in or hung and would fit on that shelf and we decided to make them slightly deeper to accommodate a MW more easily. Since our prep areas are under the windows the deeper cabinets won’t affect us. I could hang it under the cabinet but then I’d have to move my coffee pots and I really like them there.

@kaseki I hadn't thought to try that, though the MW is currently in a box. I was going to call GE however since its been decided to put the MW in the wall cabinet, no need to figure it out I’ll just sell the MW. Thanks for the tip about wind direction. I’ll keep that in mind.