LVP buckling and leveling cement under it cracking
J R
3 years ago
I installed luxury vinyl planks with a good thickness in my basement this past winter, in New York State. My contractor put leveling cement over my existing concrete floor before laying the planks. We had no issues until the middle of the summer when many of the planks started buckling. We then started noticing not just buckling but a true bubbling of multiple planks in an area. This morning my kids were in the basement Playing and noticed that a few of the planks were actually detached. I peeled the planks away and noticed that the concrete underneath them, the one that was laid to level the existing cement floor, was all bubbled and cracked. I tapped on it and it seemed hollow and immediately shattered. I am attaching photos below. This is in a basement which is below ground, but we have a dehumidifier running, starting in mid July when we noticed the buckling to start. What could have gone wrong with the leveling cement? Did I not use a dehumidifier soon enough? I know that the luxury vinyl planks are waterproof, but should they not have been installed in my basement? I’m second-guessing my choosing this product and not going with an industrial carpet that didn’t have any products that could expand or contract due to the seasons.
Featured Answer
Sort by:Oldest
Comments (21)
millworkman
3 years agoJ R
3 years agoRelated Discussions
Buckling floor after foundation repair
Comments (2)You probably have about 3" of concrete sand mix under the tile. The best option would be to remove the concrete and then raise the floor level using plywood, hardie board and tile. If height is not a problem and the floor is now stable you could get by using a floor leveler and then thinsetting the new tile over the old tile....See MoreCement Pots Cracking
Comments (50)I would use a standard hypertufa mix or use premixed concrete (don’t try to make your own unless you are familiar with the chemistry and points of making a good strong mix). Do not get quick Crete like they use for post holes. That works well because it’s in the ground and rain and water keep it damp as it cures. Remember first, concrete never stops curing. It sets up etc and can be used like driveways after at least a week two weeks better. But even then you keep it covered and misted each day — the longer it stays damp (damp not wet in the beginning) the stronger it will be. But the faster you try to dry and cure it, the more cracks, and more brittle it will be. I see people out there doing DIY walks etc and they got fans going cause they want to use that day or the next — and they wonder why it’s cracked, chipping up on the edges, and spalling in a few months. The way I use to do hypertufa (for lightness of weight) or regular concrete if I needed it to stay in place ie wildlife not messing with them - was to make them up, unmold, and then immediately mist, wrap in double layers of heavy plastic and leave sitting in the shade (no sun) for a few days, check it each day and mist it down daily and cover it back up. Do this for 4-5 days. Uncover and let sit in the shade for 6-8 months and mist it down daily .when it rains obviously no need like in the winter. By following spring or summer - put in big tub etc of water and let soak. Change the water every day x 3 or more if you can. Check water with a pH meter. When it reaches around 6-7 you can plant anything you want except for blueberries they want pH around 4-5 I believe. You are trying to neutralize the lime or the pH out of the pot. Concrete is around12-13 (highly alkaline). Even hypertufa is high because it’s peat and concrete but not quite as bad as straight concrete. Peat Moss is about 3-4 pH (very acidic) and it will bring down the concrete some. And this is how we do hypertufa too. But if the pH is still around 8 then you will need to make sure what you put in it can stand that high a pH - not a lot of choices. Remember 7 is neutral, under is acidic, over is alkaline. Roses like 6-6.5, tomatoes 5.5-6, beans like snaps like 6.5-7+ a little. Asparagus like 7 maybe +. Lilacs like higher 6.5-7.5, Cactus can take higher 7+, but there are lots of pH plant charts. Your potting mixes will be acidic based (peat Moss, and bark) but they initially charge all potting mixes with lime to bring them to a general pH. You can contact whoever’s brand you use (look the manufacturer on the internet, they all have customer service)call them up and ask. They will all be different and different mixes within the same manufacturer line may be different if made for different types of plants. A general mix would be 6-6.5 or 5.5-6.5. You can do a media pour-through test - search “media pour thru pH testing) so you know for sure. But the initial lime charge only lasts about 4-6 months depending on how often you water or it rains. You need to resweeten the soil each year — it depends on the size of the pot. Or you can retest with pour through technique to know what the level is. Regular Lime adds calcium, dolomite lime adds magnesium and calcium. If the pH is okay and you want to add calcium - use gypsum. I just know that mine will need it so I add a tablespoons every 6 months for pots 6-10” and up it for larger. If the pot is deep, you will need more or less. For things like tomatoes I add gypsum because they like calcium and you won’t get cat faced or blossom end rot. But back to the pots. I wouldn’t plant in them for at least 6-8 months or at least through your rainy season, and 3-5 days soaking and changing the water daily. If you don’t change the water, you aren’t getting rid of the lime. Check the pH and dilute with water til it reaches 7-7.3 and sprinkle your lawn with the soaking water — it will like the higher pH....See MoreThose w/ floating LVP on concrete: How "perfect" are your sub floors?
Comments (37)Yikes, we just had a local Flooring Contractor begin our flooring project. We're replacing the carpet that was original to the home, and ripping out the tile in several areas to install LVP over slab. The Contractor talked a great game, telling us about his 15 years experience and his "5 Star" reviews. When I asked about getting the old carpet glue up, he assured me he had a "power scraper" that will take the glue right up. Asked about filling nail holes from tack strips, he said he had self leveling stuff to fill those. My wife and I knowing we were getting new flooring began removing old carpet and tack strips where accessible. I filled the little craters left by pulling up the tack strip and scraped up what I could with the glue. Figuring this would save some time for the contractor. Well when it came to do the actual prep, he suddenly changed tune saying he's never fills those hole in the concrete it doesn't affect the floor at all and is a waste of time. I can see that might be true with the small holes, but pulling up the tack strips left from pretty sizable "craters." The next "red flag" was when he changed his tune on scraping the glue, he claimed the underlayment would take up any imperfections and we'd never notice once the floors are in. He said something interesting, when he said that when he's installing he asks himself if the floor will feel good under foot to the customer. Which we took to mean, if the customer never knows he didn't do a proper prep or follow manufacturer installation requirements, it's a win. When it came to following Manufacturers installation procedure, he claimed that's just CYA stuff and he does it his way. Running the underlayment perpendicular to the direction of the LVP, nah, he said you don't really need to do that, besides it takes more time. Then there's the logistic accommodations we went over with him from the get go, due to our pets. He agreed to 3 phases...until he began work then he suddenly claimed he never agreed to 3 phases, just two, then went into how he's never had a client who couldn't just put the pets in carriers and put them all in one room, then he questioned why we would adopt feral cats. That was not his job to judge our choice to rescue some cats. Oh it gets worse, with him not respecting our property. When he was taking up the tile in a bathroom, he put the toilet in our Jacuzzi shower. Did not cover the glass shower doors to protect them from "flying" mastic and tile chips. When we called him on it, the excuse was "I know what that shower is made of, and putting the toilet in there won't hurt it." We said that wasn't the point, the point was you didn't respect our property. Anyway it was excuse after excuse, argument after argument about how we trying to tell him how to do his job. Well in the end he was pretty pissed off that we expected he followed through on things we discussed and do a proper surface prep, so he quit the job. We now have a living room with basically a pallet of LVP, boxes of QuietWalk and bundles of base board. We've got another contractor coming in a few days to give us a quote on completing the project....See MoreSeeking advice regarding laying Smartcore Ultra LVP on not-level floor
Comments (8)The problem with a slope is it is rarely on the same PLANE. There are several floors that I know of that can handle a slight slope....but they cannot handle humps and bumps AS WELL as a slope. It is intensely rare to find a perfectly FLAT floor with a slope that is PERFECT. What happens? The click edges break with the stress. The little bumps and waves in a floor with a slope can and will stress the click system to the point of breaking. And it will happen over time. As it is walked on, the planks flex. As they flex, they cause stress fractures in the click system. Eventually the edges break and you get a floor that begins to gap. Once it starts, it is almost impossible to stop. While you wait for the vinyl edges to break, you will also get this lovely 'slappy' sound under your feet. The flex in a vinyl floor can be SO big it will visibly move every time you step on it. Again, this is more pronounced on a sloped floor that isn't flat. This is where laminate and vinyl are different. Laminate is very thick and very sturdy. Vinyl is thin and often quite easy to damage without proper training/preparation. In fact, the amount of swearing going on while a vinyl click together floor is being installed is IMPRESSIVE! And I grew up with 'angry Irish'. It takes a lot for me to call swearing "impressive". Vinyl planks are often very thin (4-5mm thick). That means the click egdes are VERY THIN (2mm deep...if you are lucky). That means there isn't much "grab". The tensile strength of the click system is very weak. A shift (when you step on it) up and down and a little side to side will rip the planks apart. Even if the edges remain intact (not broken), they simply do not have the strength to stay locked together. So imagine purchasing 1000sf for $4/sf = $4000. And imagine you then take 3 days to install it. Now imagine it fails within 6 months to 1 year. Will you feel the money you saved on the cost of subfloor prep ($2 - $4/sf) was worth it? Once you fix the basement subfloor (one time cost of $2-$4/sf depending on how bad it is) you can have ANY floor you want in there. You never have to fight with it again. I know that's not what you wanted to hear. Anytime there is a sloped floor (those basement drains are fun aren't they?), it is always best to remedy them before putting in flooring. The only floors that are OK with this type of floor = carpet and sheet vinyl/lino. Every other floor needs that basement slab to be fixed....See More
PROGN Builders L.L.C
3 years agoJ R
3 years ago- PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
3 years ago J R
3 years agoJ R
3 years ago- PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
3 years agoIf the answer to both of my questions is YES, this slab needs to come out. Period.
J R
3 years ago
cat_ky
3 years agoJ R
3 years agomillworkman
3 years agoJ R
3 years agocat_ky
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agomillworkman
3 years ago
PROG & S Floor Service
3 years agojulieste
3 years agoroccouple
3 years ago- PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
3 years ago roccouple
3 years ago
Related Stories
KITCHEN DESIGNThe Kitchen Storage Space That Hides at Floor Level
Cabinet toe kicks can cleverly house a bank of wide drawers — or be dressed up to add a flourish to your kitchen design
Full Story
TILESo Many Reasons to Love Cement Tiles
You’ll notice their beautiful patterns right away, but cement tiles have less obvious advantages too
Full Story
CONCRETEWhy Concrete Wants to Crack
We look at the reasons concrete has a tendency to crack — and what you can do to help control it
Full Story
TILEEpoxy vs. Cement Grout — What's the Difference?
Grout is grout, right? Nope. Cement and epoxy versions have different appearances, durability and rules of installation
Full Story
REMODELING GUIDESFiber Cement Siding Takes a Front Seat
Not just a wood or vinyl substitute, fiber cement is a stellar siding choice in its own right for modern home exteriors
Full Story
BATHROOM TILEQuick Fix: Repair Cracked Bathroom Grout
Banish an eyesore and safeguard your bathroom from water damage in 30 minutes or less with this DIY repair
Full Story
KITCHEN DESIGNKitchen Counters: Sturdy, Striking Recycled Glass With Cement
Ecofriendly and full of character, this heat- and scratch-resistant material is a great fit for custom kitchen counters
Full Story
REMODELING GUIDESHow to Dig Down for Extra Living Space
No room for a ground-level addition? See if a finished basement is a good idea for you
Full Story
EARTH DAYHow to Build a Greener Driveway
Install a permeable driveway to keep pollutants out of water sources and groundwater levels balanced
Full Story
FLOORSFloors Warm Up to Radiant Heat
Toasty toes and money saved are just two benefits of radiant heat under your concrete, wood or tile floors
Full Story
SJ McCarthy