Well a rotisserie in an kitchen oven would be ridiculous you would need to clean the oven every time you used it . Do you need a wall oven maybe just do a range instead since your space seems limited. IMO Wolf has always been over priced and overrated but I have no experiance with the one from Thermador. I buy appliances for how I use them so which one is going to work for what you want it for. I use convection all the time for a lot of things like chicken wings for sure and all my cookies. I honestly can’t see a purpose for double convection .

Thanks !

I didn't even know convection could be used for anything but baking!

Why we are going with a mix of induction cooktop and wall oven instead of an induction range:

1. I didn't find induction ranges with zone-less (not sure this is the right term) induction. The only zoneless induction I could find was the Thermador masterpiece freedom, but there may be others, I think Gaggenau has this as well.

2. I may be wrong, but I don't think you can make a range appear as flush as a induction cooktop/wall oven combo + a range will stand out much more than a cooktop/walloven combo.

Why do you think an induction range would take up less space than an induction cooktop on top of a built in wall oven, wouldn't it be the same 30" width (I should note that we only have one spot where we can put either the range or the induction cooktop/walloven)

I wouldn’t buy any Wolf oven with a blue interior but I mentioned that in the other thread. There is plenty mentioned on this forum if you search it. On the plus side for the M, it was designed to deal with the chipping in that the bottom can come off to replace rather than having to replace the whole liner. On the negative side there have been complaints that the heating is uneven. There are some longer threads about the M oven here. Convection moves air faster so it dries the surface of what you are baking or roasting and the temperature can rise which allows browning/crisping faster. It also cooks some things faster. I usually only use it part of the time for baking. Anything that has to rise I start with it off but may turn it on to brown more.

The problem with the M is the tower fans. I have the range oven with dual fans in back like the E and L, and it is a pretty good design. The tower fans set up a current of air on the sides so you get over browning on the sides. This is from their website but they have taken this illustration down.

This is the illustration they have now.

If you watch Wolf’s video about how even it is, you can see the increased browning on the sides.

It just seems that they took a good design and tinkered with it just to have something unique. They also took away the bake convection setting which is a lower fan speed so a little more gentle and less browning. I use that setting the most.

I would look at Bosch, Miele or Gaggenau. I would also consider a combi oven for one of the ovens. I have lived my Electrolux oven but it has had chipping issues. Much less expensive to fix though.

wekick: Thanks a lot for a very detailed answer! When you mention a combi oven, do you mean a double wall ovens with one of the ovens being a speed oven, or is it something else? Do you have an example combi oven?

Alternative: LG Studio LSWS307ST Single Electric Wall Oven with Convection, Self Cleaning ($1698)

Question: Does anyone know the wattage of the wolf M series oven, i.e. how many watts does the bake, broil and convection heat elements use? I couldn't find this information anywhere.

"Question: Does anyone know the wattage of the wolf M series oven..."

I wonder why fancy-pants appliance manufacturers like Wolf hide such information -- and their prices -- from consumers while companies like LG are happy to provide both.

@aevgeny

The M has 3800 watts according to this.

https://www.ferguson.com/product/wolf-range-m-series-professional-built-in-single-oven-in-stainless-steel-wso30pmsph/_/R-4835937

Wolf has made it harder to get info on their website. Not sure why that is. I have always found it easier to look on some of the online dealers to find things like that out.

You would have to call and ask for the wattage of individual elements. That might be proprietary. When a cycle comes on usually all the elements come on and off for a few seconds but some longer than others depending on the mode, bake vs roar. The fan speed varies in mine but not sure about the M.

Gaggenau, Miele and Wolf are the main companies discussed here when talking about combi ovens. It allows you to use the optimal humidity for whatever you are cooking. This could include steam for some things. If you read the Gaggenau instruction book, it talks about the optimal humidity for each type of food. There are some that are bigger than others. This is not the same as a steam oven.

$6000 for a single oven??? I really need to know what you're all cooking.

@Ash Y

i have a Wolf DF range and a $2K Electrolux wall oven. The Electrolux is far superior to the range oven and the Wolf M. I would recommend it but it too had issues with the blue enamel chipping. Much much cheaper to fix though because you can get bids. With Wolf you have to use their repair people and they won’t even tell you how much it is.

Not a lot of data out there on the Thermador model. It was new in 2019, I believe. That's when they added the touch screen to the electronics and lowered the maximum temperature of the oven (plus made it a little smaller capacity).

I have the double oven predecessor and while I like it, there are a few annoying quirks. Nothing I can't live with (logic behind the oven lighting and timer controls), but I would have an issue with the lower max temp and potential reliability concern with the touch/swipe screen.

The rotisserie is a gimmick. Have never used ours, nor would I. The post-roast cleaning of the oven cavity would be a nightmare.

From a performance standpoint, the convection on our circa 2006 Monogram was more uniform. I didn't care for Monogram's newer rack design/thinner gauge so opted against it. At the time we built, Ferguson did not carry Miele and we were required by our builder to use Ferguson for built-in appliances.

Have never tried a Wolf just because of the blue enamel issue.

If a Bosch 800 or Benchmark series has a higher max oven temperature than the Thermador, I would chose it over the Thermador.

I would very much consider adding Monogram and Miele to your research.

What about JennAir? Just started looking at their wall ovens are they good? We use Alexa for everything around the house and it looks like JA has good Alexa support

Worry more about oven performance/reliability than connected app function.

That 500 series Bosch is quite different from the Thermador. For one, max temperature is 450 (vs Thermador's 525).

Oh, does the JennAir (JJW3430) have any known performance or reliability issues? On paper it looks pretty good, double convection (fwiw), fast heatup time, large capacity

@Michelle misses Sophie: "That 500 series Bosch is quite different from the Thermador."

Smart consumers know that BSH often sells virtually the same appliance under its various brands: Bosch, Benchmark, Thermador, and Gaggenau sometimes altering features and appearance slightly. Those Bosch and Thermador have modest feature and appearance differences but their specs and dimensions are virtually identical. The biggest difference is the price, over $3000 more for the Thermador. Consumers should always compare any Thermador or Gaggenau with Bosch products before considering them.

Bosch Benchmark is closer in spec than a 500 series, which is a "big box" level Bosch. While all produced by the same parent company, there are differences that can be important to an end user. For example, the temperature capability I mentioned. Wattage of bake and broil elements can differ. Gaggenau has a significantly different interior porcelain.

In some cases there are close similarities, especially at the higher end of the Bosch brand (Benchmark and 800), but the 300 and 500 are noticeably less "contented". It all depends on how one uses the appliance whether that is important or not. For me, it was, since I routinely do pizza at 525F.

@Michelle misses Sophie "Wattage of bake and broil elements can differ."

As shown in the specs, the wattages of the Bosch and Thermador elements are precisely the same which demonstrates why consumers need to compare specs. Purchasers are not going to be able to assess obscure differences in things such as "interior porcelain".