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AV flowers wilting,

B Snow
3 years ago

(Sep 7, 13, and 15 pictures at the end)


Hi everyone,


I got my first and only AV on Sep 7. It started off with a few bright flowers, strong stems, lots of leaves. On Sep 13, I noticed that several flowers had bloomed, but they did not look as beautiful as the first flowers.


On Sep 15, I noticed that several flowers had wilted and gone stiff, while others have gotten a white tinge on the edge. One leaf, that was already ripped when I bought the AV, had also drooped and wilted. I removed these wilted flowers and the leaf this morning. There are more buds and leaves on the way and I don't want them to go down the same fate.


Specifications: The AV is in the pot it came in - 4" plastic pot that tapers down to 2.75" at the bottom. It has 15 1/4" drainage holes. For now, the tray is a clean plastic yogurt lid. Leaf spread is 9" at the narrowest and 10" at the widest (oval shape). The soil is the same soil it came in. The associate at the garden center assured me that my AV doesn't need to be repotted for 4-6 months.


Light: Most days, The AV has been sitting about 7 feet away from a huge NW-facing window. The last few days the air outside has been coated in smoke, so I'm wondering if that has reduced the light coming into my AV.


Temperature: I've been keeping the thermostat around 23°C (73° F) but my roommates turn on a moving fan in the AV's room during the daytime, which maybe chilled the AV. For a few days, I did keep the AV close to a NE-facing window, and the cold glass could have chilled it (although I shut the curtain at night).


Watering: I watered 6 days ago with around 60mL room-temperature tap water poured into the saucer. It was all soaked up in <45m (in retrospect I should have checked earlier, like 30m). The very top of the soil gets dry quite easily, but when I press down about a centimeter until the soil gives a bit of resistance to my finger, it still feels damp, so I haven't watered it since (not sure if this is correct since all sources I've read have only said to check the surface of the soil). I haven't used fertilizer.


Other: Since my AV was sitting on a lower rack beneath some other AVs in the garden centre, there is some residual dirt on the leaves, which I didn't bother to remove. I've been very careful not to get water on the plant itself. When I chose my plant, it had a few droplets of water on the leaves (presumably from the higher AVs). I dabbed the water off with my sleeve and there's no spotting on the leaves. I've also checked the undersides of the leaves (just red, no purple), and the crown (no browning), and overall there are no bugs or anything.


Can anyone help me figure out what happened, or what I can do to prevent my AV from wilting? Many thanks if you made it this far.


Pictures from Sep 7:




Sep 13 (ignore the -bar):



Sep 15:




Sorry that the angles and filters of the pictures are not very consistent. Some of these pictures were taken by someone else.

Comments (15)

  • aegis1000
    3 years ago

    I think that your problem is Thrips.

    You can clearly begin to see Thrip damage in the last two photos you show.

    My best approaches to dealing with Thrips ...

    Move the affected plant away from other plants ... like to another room, cause Thrips can fly.

    Pull off all of the flowers and flower buds on the offending plant.

    Drench the soil with a Thrip-killing insecticide. Something like Marathon or Bonide to kill larval Thrips in the soil. This treatment should be completed a couple times to catch any newly hatched Thrips.

    B Snow thanked aegis1000
  • Rosie1949
    3 years ago

    You have an Optimara violet and I think it looks pretty good. This is your first violet? Congratulations!!!!! Please spend some time reading the past posts for some great info and encouragement. You will be happy (and reassured) that you did.

    Watering--you don't need to measure. Optimara uses a not very well liked soil. If it dries out completely, the best way to hydrate it is to take the plant to the sink just as you are going to do your dishes. Use the warm soapy water and pour it onto the soil ball until it runs thru. After you do this several times, pour clear water thru to rinse the soap. You don't have to do this with every watering,,,,just every now and then. Then let the plant set and soak up whatever she wants. Let her drain and put her on a saucer. Don't let her dry out completely, but water her when she is about 1/2 or less dry.

    Fertilizer--Since she is blooming you can fertilize her if you wish. Since you only have one violet you may not want to mess with fertilizer until you learn a little more but that is up to you.

    Your room temp is fine and don't worry about a fan. Moving air is always a good thing. You don't want the fan blowing right onto the violet all the air needs to do is move.

    Light--She could use more light. 7 feet away from a NE window isn't very bright. Can you move her closer to the window? Or can you put her under a lamp you can leave on during the day? Or do you have a brighter (not sunnier,,,,just brighter) window facing east or west? That is why I suggested a lamp for additional light.

    Flowers--they form, bloom and fade which means they have to be cut off of the stem as they start looking past their prime. If you have sharp fingernails or a little pair of scissors that will do the trick. Otherwise they just die and hang on. Each stalk will probably have multiple flowers. Cut them off as they fade and when the last one is done cut the entire stalk off as close to the point of origin as you can.

    Remember one thing--violets are commercially grown from a leaf and raised in optimum conditions. Then they are packed and shipped to the stores where their care may be less than great. We buy them and there may be a broken leaf or spent flowers. We also don't have the best conditions so the flowers may not quite look like the beauties they should be. We give them the best we can offer, supplement the lighting and overall they turn out pretty well.

    Your violet looks fine to me inspite of the things you can fix. Don't be discouraged. Keep coming back and ask questions and above all read the previous posts,,,,there are thousands! We have all been where you are going,,,hang in there and keep us posted! Welcome to the forum!!!! Rosie

    B Snow thanked Rosie1949
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  • Northern Gardener (3b west central MN)
    3 years ago

    Yeah, B Snow, that's quite a significant change in 8 days flat. It seems to me that violet flowers fade more slowly, one or two at a time, but not the whole plant all at once.

    Since you got it at a garden center and not a general retail store: I wouldn't hesitate to take the plant back to where you got it and point out the decline and potential thrip problem. No plant declines that fast for no good reason. One week!?? I don't care if you over or under water and put it on a kitchen counter across the room from the window, it's not going to go that far downhill that fast. And if it *is* thrips I would hope they would exchange it for another one.

    I don't know how to recognize thrip damage on an AV, but I'd say take aegis's advice seriously, he's been around the block a few times, and his recommendation will do no harm. If you decide to keep the plant and try to save it, It will be a knife wound to your flower loving soul to remove *all* the flowers and buds. I feel your pain. But with an Optimara you should have more buds in just a few weeks (right, gang?)

    Rosie's general advice is always excellent. I agree with her too that 7' from a window is a long way, for anything except maybe south.

    I only started this habit last March. My solution to the fact that the first two violets, while very rewarding, didn't keep my shelf in constant flower was ... more violets. So as to hopefully stagger bloom. Maybe you can console yourself while that truly lovely plant recovers, with another one?

    Best wishes,

    Joan

    B Snow thanked Northern Gardener (3b west central MN)
  • B Snow
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Hi aegis, Rosie, and Joan,

    Thank you for the advice! Joan, I will take the plant back to the garden centre and get it checked out. I haven't seen any yellow pollen, or holes and grey streaks under the leaves, but I think I spotted one insect. Clumsy me, I made it fall into the soil before I got a good look. I'm worried that what I thought was soil on the leaves is actually thrips feces.


    If it is thrips, then I'll buy an insecticide too, and follow all the things that aegis suggested, Same if the garden center does an exchange as the new plant might have thrips as well. Rosie, thank you for the warm welcome! I'll be sure to place my AV(s) closer to light from now on and heed all your other great advice.


    *Update: I blew on the flowers and spotted two tiny crawling guys. Thank you for the warning - I will take action asap.

  • Rosie1949
    3 years ago

    I won't disagree with Aegis. I have never had thrips so I cannot identify them. Err on the side of caution and treat for thrips. If you bought it from Lowe's you can take it back for up to one year with your receipt. You can take it back completely dead and you will get a refund. As far as any other store, they may take it back with a receipt also. ALWAYS keep your receipt,,,,,you never know when you may need them! Good Luck! Rosie

    B Snow thanked Rosie1949
  • fortyseven_gw
    3 years ago

    Probably this was answered, but one fact jumped out at me. Watering only every 6 days for a flowering AV in the summer is not nearly enough.

    I can see there were lengthy replies by our experts, so I trust you have been given great advice as to how to care for your plant.

    B Snow thanked fortyseven_gw
  • aegis1000
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    The easiest way to determine if you have Thrips is to blow gently on the blossoms. If you see small insects scurrying across the face of the blossoms, ... those are Thrips. Another sign of Thrips is pollen (yellow dust) spilt onto the blossoms.

    Thrips live in the blossoms of African Violets and feed upon them. They sort of scrape the surface of the blossom petals, discoloring them and making them so thin that they prematurely brown and fade in spots. If they are not counteracted, you will get no truly viable blossoms, as the Thrips will destroy them first.

    Unfortunately, indoor gardening departments of box hardware stores are primary sources of Thrip exposure for African Violets, (as well as many other types of plant pests ... some of which affect African Violets, and some not). I have not bought a violet from this type of outlet for a couple years, and only one or two in the last ten years or so.

    When I do peruse African Violets in such an outlet, I almost always see signs of Thrip infestation, and if I don't see any spilt pollen ... or bedraggled blossoms, if I blow gently on the blooms, I will see the little Thrips scurrying around.

    I encountered Thrips for the first time in my first few years of serious growing. I liked to get my plants from local outlets (Lowes, Home Depot, Kroger, etc.) ... and I inevitably ended up with Thrips. Thrips fly, ... so they would eventually spread to all of the AV's in the area. I didn't have a good idea of how to fight Thrips then, so eventually I would tire of what was a losing battle, ... and just ditch an entire collection of 10-50 plants.

    When I started growing again years later, I avoided getting plants from local outlets, and so pretty much avoided episodes with Thrips. Because I would occasionally give in to temptation and scarf a plant from Lowes, I eventually had to develop a successful approach to combatting them. I've tried a number of approaches, and I finally happened upon a fairly successful approach.

    As I said, Thrips live mostly in AV blooms and buds ... so, hard as it is, ... you have to remove the blooms and buds from affected plants. in addition to this, I will make a solution of insecticide granules that contain Imidacloprid and water affected plants with the solution.

    I use Bayer Tree and Shrub Protect and Feed, but I believe Bonide and Marathon have the same ingredient.

    I dissolve about a teaspoon/tablespoon of granules in about a half-gallon of water. I have found that a couple waterings about a week or two apart will usually take care of the issue. I have found that this also works to eliminate soil mealybugs.

    B Snow thanked aegis1000
  • Northern Gardener (3b west central MN)
    3 years ago

    Thank you very much, Aegis, for the tutorial on thrips. SO useful. I think I will get some Bonide in house just in case, because I agree with Rosie! There's a four-pack of 8oz bottles (more than I need!) at Amazon for about $35 (ouch), but I will share with my daughter whose roommate is deathly afraid of all bugs and tends to blame the houseplants for *everything,* even stuff that has nothing to do with plants and probably comes from the neighboring apartments. This will be belt-and-braces insurance for all of us.

    I don't think the product labeled "Marathon" is available for non-farm use anymore. Thank goodness. And yes: it's Imidacloprid, which is a neonicitinoid, a class of chemicals which you may remember was very much in the news a few years ago when there was great alarm over the staggering losses of pollinators across the US and indeed worldwide.

    I'm not in favor of using Imidacloprid for all and sundry insect problems; for me it'll be houseplants only, because it does make it into all parts of a plant, including pollen and nectar, which are eaten by a lot of the beneficial insects: not only many and various bees but butterflies and moths. My guess is that all you reading this forum already know this, but just in case - -

    B Snow thanked Northern Gardener (3b west central MN)
  • B Snow
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Again, thank you everyone for the advice. Aegis, I will be sure to rid the offending plant of all the flowers and buds, check out those insecticides, and find an alternative way to buy/get future AVs. All the best!

  • Rosie1949
    3 years ago

    Northern Gardener are you possibly thinking of Malathion? I think that was banned long ago. Just wondering,,,, Rosie

  • Northern Gardener (3b west central MN)
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Nope, it's Marathon, which has Imidacloprid in it. I think commercial growers might still be able to get it, but not retail. The annuals guy at the nursery where I worked used to use it until he found out about the neonic issue, after which he turned to other methods, more bio-specific stuff, like Bt etc.

    Edit: I went looking for stuff called "Marathon." You can still get it but it's crazy expensive because, it looks like, it's only being sold in the kind of quantity that would be needed for a large scale operation.

  • puppypro89
    3 years ago

    whoa!!!...are we talking about dealing with african violet plants...i have been growing african violets for 20 yrs, and NEVER have i ever, heard of or used Bayer Tree and Shrub Protect and Feed on african violets!!! and i know of no other person to ever use that on violets!!!...it's for outdoor use, not on indoor use ...whew!...take off all the blossoms and buds that's what we usually do when we have a new violet...we also isolate it from our violets, or houseplants...we dome it or cover it with a plastic, clear bag so if it has something, it won't spread to other plants we have ..we don't even know for sure that your plant has thrips and you are thinking of using heavy duty poisons on your plant..i would never do that...1) your violet has had a huge change in culture when it came into your home...that's enough for the violet to drop it's blossoms....large change in lite, water, etc...give it a rest 2)the natural lite you are giving the violet sounds ok...north/east is probably the best window, altho north west is good too...3) you don't want your violet to dry out for 6 days, which is enough to have it droop everything!...and then it has to put a lot of energy into recovering from the drought!!...you need to check if the violet needs water..."mama's toothpick trick" comes in handy at this time...take a wooden toothpick, put it as far into the pot as you can and take it out...if the toothpick is dry -->water, if the toothpick is damp--> water, if it is wet --> don't water!...check the plant daily for watering until you get used to it , use room temperature water...i use gallon jugs, fill them with water and leave them out without a top on the container to allow it to get rid of some of the chlorine in it 4) repot into GOOD african violet soil...the stuff it is in is usually not good soil for avs, if you got it from a garden center...do not use miracle grow african violet soil...it's too heavy and will cause root rot as it drowns the roots...i use "hunter's wycked wicking soil "which you can get on ebay...or use optimara soil...look for optimara website and you can get it from there...or go to heidi at the enchanted garden website...buy the soil, and buy course perlite from heidi also...when you get these ...mix it about 2 parts soil to 1 part perlite and repot your violet...since you have a standard violet, repot every 6 months...5) brush off those leaves of soil, etc...we use a soft makeup brush...your plant breathes thru it leaves, you want to make them as clean as possible...6) join the african violet society of america...with their files, etc you will get the info the care for violet...7) go to the website "babyviolet.com...there is all the info you need to grow violets...8) on facebook there is a group on african violets for beginners...you can get a lot of info on violets...and stay on houzz and become friends...sorry this is so long, and obviously the above is how i and my violet friends do it...this is your first violet and hopefully not your last...

  • judy musicant
    3 years ago

    Actually, when I had a thrips outbreak, I used Bayer Tree and Shrub Insect Control as a drench while spraying with an Avid solution for 3 successive weeks. Thrips were gone with no adverse consequences to the plants. At least one person I know who has been growing AVs since the 1960’s uses Bayer yearly as a preventative.

  • Rosie1949
    3 years ago

    I have used Bayer Rose Insect Care (don't remember the exact title). I get it from Walmart although they sell it at Lowe's, Meijer and I imagine at a lot of other places. It is roughly under $5 for a spray bottle. I don't know if it really works on all (av's and foilage) of my indoor plants or if I am just incredibly lucky to not get bugs.

    I have been growing since the 1960s also and have used many, many different solutions,,,,I guess never say something won't work unless you have tried it first! You never know! Rosie

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