Ambush shooting of 2 LA Sheriffs in Compton

Tito Milian

2 LA Sheriffs ambushed and shot while sitting in their patrol car, unprovoked. Twitter explodes with anti- cop hatred.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LASDHQ/status/1304993095725932545

Black Lives Matter gathers outside the emergency room and chants “ We hope they die”.

officers, including mother of a 6- year old, fighting for their lives.

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foodonastump

Subhumans.

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Iris GW

Black Lives Matter gathers outside the emergency room and chants “ We hope they die”.

Proof?

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Nana H

The shootings are despicable. I hope the officers recover and the thugs are found and charged.

As for the BLM chants out sided the hospital, I'm not taking that on face value got any facts or proof?

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HU-400972298

Who would have guessed that BLM marxists, Democrats and the crooked media stoking racial division and demonizing the police would lead to this? Great job Dems, great job.

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foodonastump

Protesters. “BLM” thrown in for effect.



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HU-400972298

Well, "We hope they (police shot execution style) die!" might not be BLM. Could be Antifa.

Probably BLM.

Sure wasn't Trump supporters.

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Tito Milian

Has anyone woken Biden up to tell him?

8:30am EST and Twitter silence.

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deegw

Terrible tragedy. As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence.

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Iris GW

I condemn every bit of this - deputies should not be shot, no one should hope they die. I hope those who did it are fully prosecuted.

I'm sure Biden will make a statement just like Trump makes a statement about every thing that happens (including horrific fires in the west).

ETA: but these days I would not be surprised if there are nefarious folks chanting that just hoping that folks will think it is the liberal protesters doing it. This country has gotten just that bizarre.

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paprikash

Welcome to the Democrats’ America

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how2girl

You must see a different Twitter, I saw the majority of comments being condemnation.

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haydayhayday

deegw:

"As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."

That's simply not true.

Miss Lindsey must be asleep or she'd be here with:


As you said in that thread:


"....or are you just here to deflect?"

Hay

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haydayhayday

Fake AND deflecting?

deegw:

" As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."

If someone other than Trump and his incompetence had been President, instead of nearly 200,000 deaths, we'd have zero?

Really?

That's a lie, plain and simple.

Trump's got nothing on you.


Hay

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mudhouse

“BLM” thrown in for effect.

Here's a link to a 15 minute video apparently filmed by one of the demonstrators. Most of the demonstrators seem to be black males. They were first stopped outside the hospital by what look to be female hospital security guards. The women tell them it's a private hospital, the male voices are saying it's public property and they "want to visit somebody." The female guards tell them there's no visiting, and won't let them pass. The protesters are carrying flags, and at 4:46 you can see a red, black, and green striped Pan African flag. They're celebrating and yelling "oink, oink" and "(expletive) the police" and "I hope they die (expletive.)"

Armed police show up to reinforce the security guards at about the 6:00 minute mark. One has a rifle, and the protesters become more animated, yelling expletives, taunting them and yelling at them to put their guns down, "you're next!" "Ya'll gonna die one by one, this ain't gonna stop." "Lots of (expletives) are gonna come down here."

More swearing; "(expletive) the executioners, I hope they (expletive) die." More police arrive at the 13 minute mark, cars arrive. Officers approach the protesters, and tell them they're blocking the hospital driveway, appearing to move them back to a sidewalk. More swearing and threats by the protesters, taunting them to shoot.

More officers arrive, and walk in a group causing the demonstrators to back up and away from the hospital. Some shoving, camera shot is blurred; a black man can be seen wearing a T shirt with the first word "Equality". Protesters repeating "they're harrassing our people right here" over and over. "This is America, y'all see what they're doing." The protesters appear to have been moved back to an intersection.

At the end of the video a man is saying "Kevin got arrested but he's not going to be going to jail because we didn't do (expletive.) We was just talking (expletive.) We was just celebrating." He's telling another man that they showed up "with the flags" and "yeah, they didn't like that (expletive.)"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQekKesPKX4&t=304s

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Tito Milian

Burn, Loot, Murder

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Iris GW

Of course that is wrong and I condemn that unconditionally.

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Tito Milian

I understand federalism and letting states handle their own issues, but I also understand "enemies, foreign and domestic"

If the Trump is waiting until winning reelection to send the Feds in-and I have been completely in support of that until now -were're going to have more assassination attempts on officers. Unfortunately, the law of averages says that some of those will be successful.

What to do? The Democrats are willing to stand on the sidelines and push Trump in order to get their Kent State moment in hopes that it will win Democrats the White House.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

All murders (or attempted murders) matter. In this day and age police cars should be equipped with bullet proof windows to protect them from bullets from all left, right, and any weapons of deluded persuasion.

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Iris GW

If Trump is waiting until winning reelection to [help reduce the number of black deaths at the hands of police officers then people are going to continue to feel like their voices are not heard and some people will take matters into their own hands].

It's wrong, of course. But so is the way some LEO treat blacks that they stop.

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mudhouse

Does anybody else think the shooter may have been a child? The video looks odd, as if the person who quickly approaches the police car, shoots, and runs away, is very short. I don't know if the video is distorted, but the thought of a child doing this makes it even more horrific, if that's possible.

It made me think of videos of very young children being taken to BLM protests and showing people filming that they've been taught how to say "(expletive) the police."

We're screwing up the lives of young people when we teach them to view law enforcement as an evil enemy, regardless of the age of this savage shooter.

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Tito Milian

Yes, looks like it could be a child or teen, even a girl

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foodonastump

Here's a link to a 15 minute video apparently filmed by one of the demonstrators. Most of the demonstrators seem to be black males.


Yes, BLM thrown in for effect. Just the other side of the coin that automatically associates neo Nazis and other white supremacists with Trump.

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Tito Milian

The hate cops fever has become this toxic. The anarchist Left are forcing officers out of all schools and street culture does the rest.

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mudhouse

foodonastump, the flags, clothing, and comments in the video doesn't fit anything I've seen of Antifa demonstrators; that was part of what I was trying to ascertain from watching the video.

Speaking for myself, I then try to move on to the question of whether or not it's accurate to say these individuals represent or support the BLM movement. I don't think there's any way for anybody to "prove" an association or a belief.

If someone attends a BLM protest and throws a brick through a window, do they cease being associated with that movement the moment the brick hits the glass?

Are the peaceful protesters in a BLM march the only ones we can associate with the movement? If the answer is yes, what's the correct terminology to be applied to demonstrators like this, who arrive to celebrate the attempted assassination of two police officers? Who are they associated with? What do we call them?

I'm open to suggestions. I'm getting very frustrated with the impossible task of trying to find some invisible dividing line that only seems apparent for some.

(Added for clarity: When I ask, what do we call them, I agree with your answer of subhuman. What I'm wrestling with is this: how do we identify the ideology of black people who condone violence against police, if that's a disqualification for being associated with the BLM movement? Is it a disqualification?)

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Iris GW

The hate cops fever has become this toxic.

Unfortunately, the more the LEO-black killing topic gets discussed, the more buried instances come to light. Which is good, but it's not helping with the perspective of LEO excessive force not being handled by LEO supervisors (in other words, cops getting away with murder).

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

We don't have enough info to say for sure what all was going on, so some posters might want to hold off on assuming that the protesters are one or the other politicial persuasion. We just don't know yet.

What we can probably safely assume is that the demonstrators are very anti-police, but it is entirely possible that they have no particular political affiliation at all. They just resent what they see as police brutality and oppression.

I do have to say, however, that the "right" is trying awfully hard to impose a political reading on the events even though the sources cited are so careful to NOT include political language.

Kate

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justerrilynn(10)

The shooter looks like someone with rickets. Or, someone with a form of dwarfism.

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haydayhayday

Kate:

"We don't have enough info to say for sure what all was going on, so some posters might want to hold off on assuming that the protesters are one or the other politicial persuasion. We just don't know yet."

Wow.

A quote worth remembering!

Hay

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haydayhayday

I just went out to my car, which looks to be about the same height as the cop car, with my tape measure.

Probably the best means of getting to the height of the shooter?

It looks like the person is a bit less than 5 feet tall as he/she is standing next to it, shooting away.

Hay

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mudhouse

The shooter looks like someone with rickets. Or, someone with a form of dwarfism.

Yes, I had that thought too, justerrilyn, and that's why I wondered if there was something odd going on causing camera distortion.

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jlhug

Agree, Hay. A quote to remember. Maybe the light is finally starting to dawn on some posters that the media, “influencers” politicians and armchair quarterbacks do us no favors when they analyze events with about a quarter of the facts.


VGKG, it is a sad statement on our society if the police need bulletproof glass to protect themselves from criminals.

I wonder if the shooting of the two police officers was some type of a gang initiation given the apparent small stature of the assailant.

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shead

Ditto, Hay. I copied that comment and was going to say essentially the same thing. Glad you beat me to it.

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Toby

Most of the demonstrators seem to be black males.

How many were there? A mob, like how HU 98 or Tito described a group of five demonstrators who argued with the #Walkaway founder on a D.C. street?

Let's be exact about what we see and hear on the video. The camera is pointed at the officers so we don't know. Two people are clearly pictured from what I saw, and one is filming. We hear the voices of two or three men. I didn't have time to study it so let us know if you saw more than that.

Do those three people represent all BLM, all protesters, all demonstrators, and/or all black people?

The way this is being presented feeds that narrative.

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Rory (Zone 6)(6)

I think that person will be apprehended quickly (at least I hope so). They are very particular looking. It could be a woman or even a kid. There also appears to be another person crossing the cross-walk in the direction that they ran. Hopefully there are more camera shots and/or witnesses.


It's a terrible and senseless tragedy. I hope the officers are able to recover and that despicable person pays swiftly and dearly for what they have done.

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haydayhayday


Hay

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jlhug

This article says the video of the shooting was taken with a camera with a fisheye lenswhich may explain the distortion of the height of the shooter.

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HU-400972298

Not even close, Joe. SAY THEIR NAMES, JOE. Democrats and their legacy media arm must condemn BLM, who are professed marxists and use marxist violence for change.

Just as Trump totally condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists, Joe must condemn BLM and Antifa by name.

Same coin. Same racism. Same hate.


Joe Biden

@JoeBiden

This cold-blooded shooting is unconscionable and the perpetrator must be brought to justice.
Violence of any kind is wrong; those who commit it should be caught and punished.
Jill and I are keeping the deputies and their loved ones in our hearts and praying for a full recovery.

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haydayhayday

Jlhug

"This article says the video of the shooting was taken with a camera with a fisheye lenswhich may explain the distortion of the height of the shooter."

Which I think is largely corrected for with my attempt to estimate the height of the person.

The video is centered right on the window of the cop car.

The person is standing right there.

If there's a distortion at that spot, I'd think it would affect both the car and the person's height in the same proportion.

Hay

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HU-400972298

mudhouse, as disgusting as the BLM comments were as they attempted to terrorize the hospital, staff and patients, remember that Biden's supporters and his VP pick have a fund that will bail out those BLM criminals if they get arrested.

Kamala's fund has sprung criminals who have gone on to murder.

Further, Democrats will just continue refusing to prosecute these thugs.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

VGKG, it is a sad statement on our society if the police need bulletproof glass to protect themselves from criminals.

It's sad also jlhug that they need to wear body armor too, patrol cars equipped with BP windows should have been implemented decades ago.

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HU-400972298

Baton Rouge

Dallas

Now L.A.


Keep up the hysteria, hatred and banishment of the thin blue line flags. Because reasons.

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mudhouse

Just as Trump totally condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists, Joe must condemn BLM and Antifa by name.

I don't think this will ever happen. BLM, at least, manages to remain impervious to criticism. Both groups are smart enough to have a loose knit structure as a movement, and that makes it easy for the groups and their supporters to disclaim comments or actions that involve violence.

When a supposed DC BLM leader with a bullhorn announces to a cheering crowd that he's "ready to put cops in their graves," people pretend it didn't happen, because nobody can "prove" that person really represents the BLM movement. Nothing to see here; no consequences.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

In other words, no proof that the bullhorn guy or the crowd is BLM. Just your assumption.

Kte

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catspa_zone9sunset14

The way this is being presented feeds that narrative.

That, plus nary a peep from conservatives on HT when law enforcement officers are shot and killed by right-wing extremists, as most recently happened May 29, 2020 in Oakland, CA and at least several times across the U.S. over the past few years, no doubt to the approval of the right-wing anti-cop contingent and to the extreme sadness of the rest of us.

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mudhouse

In other words, no proof that the bullhorn guy or the crowd is BLM. Just your assumption.

Right on time, and thanks for illustrating my point, Kate. Did you miss that I typed the word "supposed" DC BLM leader (even though the articles I read identified that man with the bullhorn as a BLM leader?)

No consequences for words inciting violence against police, because nobody can connect the dots with finite proof. I have to hand it to the people who've come up with a way to put targets on police officers without paying any legal or political price for doing so.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Just as Trump totally condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists....

When did that happen? Totally? As long as they support trump he will be just "fine" with them as they are "fine" with him.

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HU-400972298

mudhouse, this is what BLM has become. This is the destruction, chaos and violence of the Democrat party.

BLM is irrevocably broken and it's because it has always been a marxist revolutionary group which pledges to end the nuclear family and use violence as a means of change.

I wonder if the white, limousine libs in the burbs fully understand what they are supporting, because BLM's aim is to eliminate them. To destroy what they have. To destroy their families. To corrupt western civilzation.

Who cheers for that?

You have a BLM sign, flag, patch, logo or imprimatur of any kind, and you are these marxist thugs.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Exactly, Toby. You made the point even more directly than I did.

"a purely political attempt to delegitimize the entire BLM movement when ANY black behaves like a lunatic.

BLM shouldn't even be INCLUDED in this discussion as this was not a BLM protest."

Kate

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HU-400972298

Yes, in DC the BLM leader was screaming over a sound system, just outside the White House, in the BLM mayor's "BLM Plaza".

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I thought we were talking about two L.A. sheriffs being ambushed (see the OP). Why are you changing the subject, HU-4009?

Kate

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elvis

Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.

And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/

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haydayhayday


Kate:

"I thought we were talking about two L.A. sheriffs being ambushed (see the OP). Why are you changing the subject, HU-4009?"



Right out of the gate:

"Terrible tragedy. As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."

You miss that lie?

Hay


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Toby

If the incident with Nick Sandmann and the crazy Black Hebrews had occurred this summer, they'd be calling the Black Hebrews "BLM".

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I don't see a "lie" there, Hay.

Kate

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haydayhayday



Toby

If the incident with Nick Sandmann and the crazy Black Hebrews had occurred this summer, they'd be calling the Black Hebrews "BLM".

Kate:

"I thought we were talking about two L.A. sheriffs being ambushed (see the OP). Why are you changing the subject, HU-4009?"

Hay

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haydayhayday

Hay:

I don't see a "lie" there, Hay.

Really?

You want to double down?

deegw:

" As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."


If someone other than Trump and his incompetence had been President, instead of nearly 200,000 deaths, we'd have zero?

Really?

Really, Kate?

You think every single life that was lost to Coronavirus was "caused by Trump's incompetence.".

Hay

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HU-400972298

There’s nothing good coming from BLM. Nothing at all. Is the country a better place since their uprising? No, it has only gotten much worse. In the wake of George Floyd’s death, dozens of people have been killed as a result of the riots that have stemmed from BLM “protests.” Men like David Dorn are dead today because BLM encouraged destruction and harm, and Democrats not only stood in silence, they marched along, fists in the air.

This is just another BLM shooting in a line of murders.

BLM needs to end. Anyone who continues to support them can no longer claim ignorance or point to anything, not one thing, positive that BLM has done for the black community or more importantly, society at large.

They've taken in countless millions of dollars and have nothing to show for it but blood.

Marxist organizations that traffic in dangerous, divisive, sometimes even violent racial pot stirring do not lead “movements.” They lead the overturning of governments.

Wake. Up.

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gettingnowhere

Just sickening, appalling, murderous thugs. No words bad enough to describe these murdering criminals. Hope the cops survive, I feel for their families.

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Toby

So do I, gettingnowhere. Too bad Tito choose to make this thread about something other than those two officers.

The police shootings of unarmed blacks are radicalizing some blacks. We need a leader for the times now, one who can unite us because he cares about all Americans, not a sociopath who wants to divide us because it somehow benefits him.

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haydayhayday

noun


1 a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

2 something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture:


3 an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

Hay


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haydayhayday

Toby:

"So do I, gettingnowhere. Too bad Tito choose to make this thread about something other than those two officers."

Right out of the gate:

"Terrible tragedy. As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."


Toby:

"We need a leader for the times now, one who can unite us because he cares about all Americans, not a sociopath who wants to divide us because it somehow benefits him."


Hay

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Gizmo

haydayhayday


Hay:

I don't see a "lie" there, Hay.

Really?

You want to double down?

deegw:

" As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."


If someone other than Trump and his incompetence had been President, instead of nearly 200,000 deaths, we'd have zero?

Really?

Really, Kate?

You think every single life that was lost to Coronavirus was "caused by Trump's incompetence.".
Hay

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So Hay, does Trump bare any responsibility for the American deaths by Covid that happened under his watch?

Also - has Trump done absolutely everything in his power to stop/slow/curtail the American pandemic?

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Toby

HU-400972298

Not even close, Joe. SAY THEIR NAMES, JOE. Democrats and their legacy media
arm must condemn BLM, who are professed marxists and use marxist
violence for change.

Just as Trump totally condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists, Joe must condemn BLM and Antifa by name.

Same coin. Same racism. Same hate.

Joe Biden

@JoeBiden

This cold-blooded shooting is unconscionable and the perpetrator must be brought to justice.
Violence of any kind is wrong; those who commit it should be caught and punished.
Jill and I are keeping the deputies and their loved ones in our hearts and praying for a full recovery.

Here's one I should also address. Joe is saying exactly what he needs to say but 98 thinks he should be condemning BLM and Antifa. I missed where they caught the shooter and confirmed that he was affiliated with BLM and Antifa.

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HU-400972298

The day two police officers are in the hospital after being ambushed and shot, Ilhan Omar is on TV advocating that we defund police and saying that Joe Biden will be "responsive" to policies she’s pushing.

Boy, that brings a lot of comfort.

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gettingnowhere

I often wonder, what a Kennedy, Regan, (2) Bush’s, Carter or even the 2 Roosevelt’s, would say today or how they would handle the many tragedies the USA is now experiencing?

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mudhouse

Second try, because my posts seem to be disappearing.

Toby: Is that why you post falsehoods that every black behaving badly is a member of BLM?

Toby, I asked above if condoning violence against police was a disqualifier for being associated with the Black Lives Matter movement. Do you think it is?

In other words, if a black person espouses violence against police, do you think that proves they're not BLM supporters?

For example, it's possible for someone to support Trump and also be a white supremacist. I support Trump and completely reject white supremacy. We have different beliefs.

Why would it be impossible for any BLM supporters to also condone violence against police?

It is possible, and I think some do. That doesn't mean I believe all of them do.

No ideology or movement is monolithic, because belief systems are as individual as human beings are.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Here is some clarification from the WashPost:

"Five myths about antifa

Short for “anti-fascist,” the label “antifa” gained notoriety in 2017 over the course of several high-profile conflicts between left-wing protesters and the far right in Berkeley, Calif.; Portland, Ore.; Charlottesville; and elsewhere. But antifa has been a staple of radical politics across Europe, Latin America and beyond for decades. . . . [A]ntifa remains largely misunderstood. Here are some of the most popular myths.

Myth No. 1: Antifa is a single organization.

On May 31, President Trump tweeted, “The United States of America will be designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization.” . . . .

But Trump cannot designate “ANTIFA” as a terrorist organization because antifa is not an organization. Rather, it is a politics of revolutionary opposition to the far right. There are antifa groups, such as Rose City Antifa in Portland and NYC Antifa, just as there are feminist groups, such as Code Pink. But neither antifa nor feminism is itself an organization. You cannot subpoena an idea or a movement.

Myth No. 2: Antifa masterminds violence at Black Lives Matter protests.

Police stations were burned, squad cars were destroyed, and property was damaged across the country after the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis in May. Days later, Trump was quick to blame the violence on “ANTIFA and the Radical Left.” . . .

But neither the Justice Department, the FBI nor the press have found evidence to corroborate the grandiose allegation that the most widespread and significant political upheaval this country has seen in half a century was masterminded by one shadowy organization. Not even in Portland. Antifa groups are simply not numerous enough, nor their memberships large enough, nor their politics influential enough to have achieved such massive destruction. Militant anti-fascist groups heavily vet potential members to prevent infiltration from law enforcement or the far right. Some don’t open their ranks to new members at all. Significant investments of time and energy are expected. Such high barriers to entry necessarily keep numbers low.

Myth No. 3: Antifa is affiliated with the Democratic Party.

In August, a fake antifa website began to redirect users to Joe Biden’s campaign site. Though it was clearly a ploy to associate the Democratic Party with antifa, right wingers seized upon the apparent conspiracy. . . .

Not only is there no evidence to support such allegations — which are more of an effort to associate liberalism with lawlessness than anything else — but Democratic leaders have routinely condemned antifa and political violence more broadly. . . . When a reporter recently asked Joe Biden, “Do you condemn antifa?,” he responded, “Yes, I do.”

Nor is there any antifa love affair with the Democrats. The vast majority of antifa militants are radical anti-capitalists who oppose the Democratic Party. . . .

Myth No. 4: Antifa is funded by liberal financiers like George Soros.

[. . .]

There is no evidence that Soros or any other 1 percenter is bankrolling antifa groups. Receiving financial support from a billionaire would be anathema to their anti-capitalist politics.

Myth No. 5: Antifascists are the 'real fascists.'

[. . .]

Indeed, antifascists and fascists have one thing in common: an illiberal disdain for the confines of mainstream politics. In every other way they are worlds apart. As opposed to their far-right adversaries, antifascists are feminist, anti-racist, anti-capitalists who seek to abolish prisons and police.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-antifa/2020/09/11/527071ac-f37b-11ea-bc45-e5d48ab44b9f_story.html

------------------------
Just for the record--since not every poster seems to be talking about the same thing.

Kate

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deegw

Hay, I posted ONE sentence that you disagreed with. You quoted part of my post multiple times. You twisted my words, you left out the sentence in my post that didn't fit your narrative and you declared I posted a lie. You partially copied a post of mine from another thread and again left out the part that didn't fit your narrative.

I don't respond to bullying.

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Ann

I haven't read this thread yet but I heard this story today from my golf partner. OMG:(

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debo_2006

The shooter looks like someone with rickets. Or, someone with a form of dwarfism.


This was my thinking when I watched the video.

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haydayhayday

deegw:

Hay, I posted ONE sentence that you disagreed with. You quoted part of my post multiple times. You twisted my words, you left out the sentence in my post that didn't fit your narrative and you declared I posted a lie.

I don't respond to bullying.


deegw:

"Terrible tragedy. As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."

Did I leave anything out?



Hay

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haydayhayday

"Terrible tragedy. As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."

True or false?

"nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."

Every single death with a few extra just for good measure?

Right this moment:



Hay

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I condemn the ambush of the deputies, and there is no excuse for their violence.

I too am outraged by the activities within the Compton station, but more violence is not the answer to the violence within the Sheriffs Department.

*

Now some perspective on the LA County Sheriffs Department's Compton Station.

A whistleblower's report from July and a recent controversial -- Dijon Kizzee --killing both involve deputies from the Compton station. There have been ongoing protests at the Compton over the killing of Kizzee, an unarmed Black man who stopped while riding his bike. At the same time, news of yet another gang in the Sheriffs Department is in the news -- a gang with celebrations of shootings of civilians. There is talk that one of the deputies involved in Kizzee's killing is a member of the Executioner gang. In addition, LA County Sheriff Alex Villanueva has refused to release the autopsy results for Kizzee. Villanueva has in the past refused civilian oversight, and has been involved in several controversies which cast a shadow on his judgement and temperament.


L.A. County deputy alleges 'Executioner' gang dominates Compton sheriff station

https://news.yahoo.com/l-county-deputy-alleges-executioner-231811948.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALKz-zEuW3Ktj_2lWpqGETXjsjfmJmnGOwY1xfhekdjxnkUiQGv3o6mJNDwYLM6ZAssSgEy7aVc0dhwG186DkRICTjT5zAyllUwLZJLhcv7emYZN1-aMBgZ8utE1aqKiFGPl5WOh19vaadAjb63hoEryQYbUKjGSmjtTGpcq3DXK

. . . It was one of the first instances of retaliation that continued for months, exacted by the Executioners, a band of deputies with matching tattoos that wields vast power at the Compton station, he [the whistleblower] alleged in a claim filed against Los Angeles County. The claim says the group — sporting tattoos of a skull with Nazi imagery and an AK-47 — celebrates deputy shootings and the induction of new members with "inking parties."

In recent years, the claim says, its members were involved in setting illegal arrest quotas and threatening work slowdowns — which involve ignoring or responding slowly to calls — when they did not get preferred assignments.

The allegations have revived long-standing concerns that inked deputy groups — with monikers such as the Spartans, Regulators, Grim Reapers and Banditos — operate out of several Sheriff's Department stations and represent what many in the community see as criminal gangs within law enforcement. The existence of such fraternities has sparked multiple internal investigations and recently a federal probe by the FBI, but the groups have remained entrenched, with many civil liberties advocates accusing the Sheriff's Department of turning a blind eye. [ . . .]

[Los Angeles County Sheriff] Villanueva said he ordered an investigation.

"I take these allegations very seriously and recently enacted a policy specifically addressing illicit groups, deputy cliques, and subgroups," he said, referring to measures he enacted in February that prohibit deputies from participating in cliques.

Inspector General Max Huntsman said Thursday that he is "aware of no implementation whatsoever" of the policy and that his office can't effectively investigate the secret societies "because of the obstruction of the Sheriff's Department." He said the criminal investigation of Banditos members who were allegedly involved in an off-duty beating in 2018 amounted to a "cover-up," noting that more than 20 deputies were not required to give statements.

Gonzalez's claim alleges the Compton station clique numbers about 20 deputies, while 20 more are prospects or associates. Many work at night, the claim says, and communicate through WhatsApp. Black and female deputies are not allowed in the clique, the claim says.

"Nearly all the CPT Deputies who have been involved in high-profile shootings and out-of-policy beatings at CPT in recent years have been 'inked' members of The Executioners," the claim alleges. "'Inking' refers to the act of each newly made member of The Executioners receiving a matching tattoo indicating membership in the organization. … Members become inked as 'Executioners' after executing members of the public, or otherwise committing acts of violence in furtherance of the gang." [ . . . ]

For decades, a subculture of matching tattoos has been rooted in the Sheriff’s Department, where secret societies have been accused of glorifying an aggressive style of policing. Sean Kennedy, member of the Civilian Oversight Commission and professor at Loyola Law School, said Thursday that he and his students have identified at least 17 gangs — some of them historical — in the department.

The FBI, however, has been interviewing deputies over the last year about whether clique members are actively violating civil rights of the public with false reports or violence. Rand Corp., a nonprofit research agency, has also been studying the clique culture and plans to publish its report in January.

The new allegations out of Compton come as the station faces extra scrutiny recently in a number of high-profile uses of force, including the arrest and beating in May of Dalvin Price, who was pinned to the ground and struck by three deputies at Rosecrans and Santa Fe avenues, and the fatal shooting last month in Gardena of Andres Guardado, an 18-year-old who was shot by a deputy five times in the back. {Article was written before the killing of Dijon Kizzee.]

Details about the Compton clique were first revealed in a civil case brought by the family of Donta Taylor, a 31-year-old man who was shot and killed when deputies opened fire during a foot chase in 2016. Deputies claimed Taylor had a handgun, but no weapon was found. [An example of the infamous 'ghost gun.']

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foodonastump

"nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."


That can be read different ways.


a) there have been nearly 200,000 deaths that Trump is directly responsible for.


b) Trump is responsible for the fact that the death toll is nearly 200,000.


Personally I’d consider that the poster is at least halfway intelligent and informed, and safely assume that while not worded in the best way, she clearly meant something more along the lines of b. But if I wanted to badger her for hours I might take advantage of the wording and pretend I thought she meant a.

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foodonastump

I condemn the ambush of the deputies, and there is no excuse for their violence.

I too am outraged by the activities within the Compton station...


Same here. Like Ann, I haven’t read this entire thread. What Dem or other leaders from the left have supported the shooting and the aftermath? Nancy? AOC? Other? I see Biden strongly condemned the violence, and he’s about the most important person representing the party at this moment. Whose statements have the right in a tizzy?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I agree, food.

----

Thank you, nancy, for the additional info about the L.A. situation. Helps make a lot more sense of the events taking place there.

Kate

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mudhouse

Nancy: I condemn the ambush of the deputies, and there is no excuse for their violence.

I too am outraged by the activities within the Compton station, but
more violence is not the answer to the violence within the Sheriffs
Department.

*Now some perspective on the LA County Sheriffs Department's Compton Station.

******************

Thank you Nancy, that helps me understand the protester references to "Executioners" and Kizzee. (I tried to look up Kizzee but couldn't hear it clearly enough to figure out how to spell it.)

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haydayhayday

This has been a good thread.

A good example of just how far people can stretch the truth and still brazenly call it a truth.

You want to make a bet on how soon we'll see something like that statement made on HT once again, FOAS?

It's not the first time and I doubt it will be the last.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Why, it seems like only yesterday:

vedabeeps:


"While this particular Coronavirus is new the threat of a pandemic is not. Trump CHOSE not to use the “Pandemic Playbook” left by his predecessors or create a new one in case one was needed- he had been warned. He failed the American people in a big way, 200,000+ Deaths and no end in sight is a pretty major failure."

Hay

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Civil libertarian Angelenos have been fighting the curse of gang culture within the Sheriffs department for decades -- and still no effective change has resulted. (I will grant that the scandal and convictions around criminal deputy misconduct in the downtown LA County jail consumed much of the attention in recent years.)

Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department has an enormous problem with the behavior of deputies -- the extent of which we do not actually know because of obstruction by the department -- so few would be surprised at civilian rancor towards the institution. Yet the department itself will not participate in reform -- even to protect itself.

Rather than defund the Sheriffs Department, it should be abolished and reconfigured on an entirely different model.

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haydayhayday

Why, it seems like only yesterday:

maddie260

"I watched, Ann. The problem: Biden was NOT POTUS and did not have the intelligence that dt had. dt FAILED to use the intelligence he had to mobilize the federal government to deal with Covid. It's not what Biden did. It's what dt FAILED to do. THAT is why there are near 200,000 people dead."


Hay

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

understand the protester references to "Executioners" and Kizzee

Kizzee is only the most recent victim, and Executioners only the most recently discovered gang -- the anger builds because of previous victims and gangs (which are mentioned in the linked article).

If my memory holds, the first deputy gang was the Vikings, organized by white supremacists in the Lynwood station in the early 1970s.

The department has a 50-year history of criminal gangs in what is supposed to be a law enforcement agency.

Edited to add: The LAPD has a national reputation for violence, but the LACSD is now perhaps the more brutal of the two having made no progress while LAPD had been forced to reform (not completely successful) by the DOJ.

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haydayhayday

Why, it seems like only yesterday:

vgkg brings it down a little.

"...yeah everyone was so relaxed we lost an extra 150,000 lives. Amazing what 2 weeks difference would have made. Thx Prez Deathwish."

He's precise, though: "we lost an extra 150,000 lives"

Hay

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foodonastump

It's what dt FAILED to do. THAT is why there are near 200,000 people dead."


Thanks for posting that, Hay. An even more clear example of meaning the magnitude not each death.

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haydayhayday

Why, it seems like only yesterday:

dandyfopp:

"Donnies optimism has led to the deaths of nearly 200,000 Americans."

"Liked" by 20.


Hay

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haydayhayday

FOAS:

Thanks for posting that, Hay. An even more clear example of meaning the magnitude not each death."

What nonsense!

Just utter nonsense.


Hay

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haydayhayday

Why, it seems like only yesterday:

Maddie 260:

" What was lost because of dt’s callousness and disrespect of the American people was 200,000 lives,"

Hay

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haydayhayday

Why, it seems like only yesterday:

Annie:

"Meanwhile, we are rapidly approaching 200,000 dead Americans through trump's mishandling of the virus."

Hay

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haydayhayday

Why, it seems like only yesterday;

Dandyfopp:

"200,000 Americans are dead on Donnies watch."



Hay

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

LAC SD has been policing Compton for 20 years, and relations with the community are not good.

*

From the linked article:

Compton has long had a troubled history with law enforcement. In 2000, the city disbanded its police force after struggling to contain rising crime and gang violence.

The solution, as city leaders saw it, was to hire the Sheriff’s Department to patrol the streets, a move advertised as a way to have more sophisticated policing that would save the city $7 million a year out of its $20-million budget for policing costs. Proponents claimed the money would be reinvested in the community and would lead to an economic revival.

But sheriff’s deputies in Compton were increasingly seen as outsiders and developed a reputation among some locals for aggressive tactics. Deputies were heavily criticized in 2005 after firing about 120 rounds at a moving vehicle driven by an unarmed man, who was shot four times. In 2009, a 16-year-old boy was fatally shot in the back by a Compton station deputy, who claimed the boy pointed a gun at him. An attorney for the boy’s family suggested the deputy planted the weapon. [Another 'ghost gun.']

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foodonastump

Dandyfopp:


"200,000 Americans are dead on Donnies watch."

Hay

~~~

Is it someone else’s watch?

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haydayhayday

Why, it seems like only yesterday:

bob_cville:

"However when Trump is told that this will be very serious, that many many many people will die, and not only does he do (virtually) nothing but he lies about it and knowingly encourages people to act in ways that will make things worse, as a result nearly 200000 Americans have died.

Hay

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foodonastump

Hay - If I were to say something like “If it weren’t for smoking, we wouldn’t have about 140,000 lung cancer deaths a year” would you

a) understand that I’m obviously referring to the fact that a majority of lung cancer deaths are smoking related, or,

b) nitpick the death out of my statement because not all lung cancer cases are brought on by smoking?

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foodonastump

What you are demonstrating, Hay, is that many people will write that statement in a similar way and most people other than you understand what is meant.

Notice: If there is anyone here who believes that all COVID deaths are due to Trump please speak up so that I may personally call you stupid.

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haydayhayday

FOAS:

"If there is anyone here who believes that all COVID deaths are due to Trump please speak up so that I may personally call you stupid."

Good luck.

Notice: If anyone whom I have quoted wants to clarify their statements, please speak up...


Hay


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foodonastump

24/7

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haydayhayday

And, just for the sake of accuracy, give us a number as to exactly how many deaths you attribute directly to Trump.


Hay

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haydayhayday

"24/7"

Defending honesty and the truth.

No shame in that.

It's a full time job around here.


Hay

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cattyles

Why do you attempt reasonable results, FOAS?

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foodonastump

How many deaths would there have been without his “leadership”?

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olychick

If you haven't noticed, this is not Biden's America, this trump's America.

Can't we all agree that good people believe that violence against anyone is wrong/bad?

Can't we all agree that we need police officers to protect and help us, which the majority of officers are trying to do?

Can't we agree that there are bad cops who need to be weeded out. They come from the mainstream after all, so some of the bad players in our society are going to slip through.

Can't we all agree that peaceful protests are the bedrock of our democracy?

Can't we all agree that NO good people on either side condone rioting and property damage?

Can't we all agree that a few bad apples on the far left, the far right and in law enforcement are bringing us down instead of working together to rid ourselves of all of their influences.

It just can't be that hard.

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Toby

Nancy, thank you for that background. I had no idea there are gangs within the Sheriff's Department. If he's caught, do you think we'll find out that that was the shooter's motivation?

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Rory (Zone 6)(6)

Why isn't the full video available? I would like to see everything the camera caught that has the shooter in frame. Seems like the full video would be helpful in catching the person.

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elvis

foodonastump

What you are demonstrating, Hay, is that many people will write that statement in a similar way and most people other than you understand what is meant.

Notice: If there is anyone here who believes that all COVID deaths are due to Trump please speak up so that I may personally call you stupid.

I doubt they believe it. But they say it because they enjoy saying it, and want people to read it. I for one appreciate Hay's persistence. Hay is right.

My opinion, not Hay's: the people who make posts that infer that any of the covid fatalities are Trump's fault are dead wrong.

If, OTOH, they really do believe it, they're delusional.

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cattyles

Elvis, your statement is just as false as blaming every single death on trump.


He’s having an indoor, no masks, crammed like sardines rally right now. Should he be doing that?

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mudhouse

Elvis: I doubt they believe it. But they say it because they enjoy saying it, and want people to read it. I for one appreciate Hay's persistence. Hay is right.

I think so too, and I also think Hay is right.

I'd also add yesterday's comment here in HT referring to Trump as a mass murderer. I'm not sure the poster believes that; maybe. I think they hope it will be effective leading up to a presidential election.

Maybe it will be, but my take is, it's the kind of statement that will help reelect Donald Trump.

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Olychick

Cattyles, yes...eliminating the base, one rally at a time.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

To return to an earlier argument advanced in this thread:

"this is what BLM has become. This is the destruction, chaos and violence of the Democrat party.

BLM is irrevocably broken and it's because it has always been a marxist revolutionary group which pledges to end the nuclear family and use violence as a means of change."

-----------------

I just happened upon an informative article by the Tulsa BLM. It will hopefully clarify how misdirected the above quote is.

------------

"What's Black Lives Matter about? Combating police violence but also economic empowerment, advocates say

The Rev. Mareo Johnson chuckled when asked if Black Lives Matter is a Marxist organization.

“No,” said the leader of Tulsa’s chapter, “Black Lives Matter is not trying to overthrow the government. We just (want) a fair government.”

If anything, Johnson said, Tulsa African Americans want the chance to more fully participate in free enterprise capitalism.

He also says “Black lives matter” doesn’t mean only Black lives matter. It means they matter, too.

“We’re not saying Black lives matter more or that other lives don’t matter,” Johnson said. “We’re saying Black lives have to matter as much as any other, because for 400 years they haven’t.”

[. . .]

Critics perceive BLM, as it’s commonly known, as a racist, subversive organization steeped in Marxist political theory. . . . More immediately, BLM is accused of inciting violence and undermining law enforcement. . . .

[. . .]

“I just think there’s a tremendous amount of confusion about (who) were the founders, and then who were these people who came after the founders who used that hashtag or used that phrase,” [University of Oklahoma professor Karlos] Hill said. “What did they really mean? What are their intentions? And so some conflate Black Lives Matter with Defund the Police. Some think ‘This has to be some kind of plot.’ Or ‘Black lives matter, other lives don’t.’ Or ‘Black lives matter, blue lives don’t.’ ”

“None of that really gets to the substance of what they are saying,” Hill said. “What they have tried to say is, if I could add a word, is that Black lives ought to matter. Should matter. But they don’t matter.”

[. . .]

. . . Johnson and Hill say combating violence, and especially police violence, is really what Black Lives Matter is about. While some portray the movement as full of ’60s-style radicals, and some of its members might profess communist views, its rhetoric says little to nothing about class struggle or economic theory beyond a demand for economic opportunity.

“We want Blacks empowered in business, like in 1921,” he said, referring to Tulsa’s early African American entrepreneurs. “We want to help create a better government. And that will not only help Black people. It will help people as a whole.”

As Hill noted, Black Lives Matter began as a Twitter hashtag in 2013, following the acquittal of George Zimmerman for the shooting death of Black teenager Trayvon Martin. It burst into public view a few years later after the shooting death of another Black teen, Mike Brown, by a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer.

Black Lives Matter became associated with both the movement to address what many believe to be law enforcement’s excessive use of force and the rioting in Ferguson after Brown’s death.

In recent months, the movement has gained momentum since the death of George Floyd at the hands of a Minneapolis police officer.

Johnson said he is not an advocate of literally defunding police, but he would like changes in the way public safety is addressed.

What people are really saying is that if we invested more in communities, maybe we wouldn’t have to fund the police the way we do now. ... Maybe we can make the police’s job easier,” Johnson said.

“Everybody knows there are times when you need police,” he said.

“Black lives matter is not anti-police,” said Hill. “It’s not even anti-policing per se. It’s anti-police brutality.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/whats-black-lives-matter-about-combating-police-violence-but-also-economic-empowerment-advocates-say/article_36fc5289-785c-5e71-bc2b-0dd0c8bcae22.html

---------------------------

I hope that clarifies that BLM is NOT a Marxist organization and has no intentions of overthrowing the American government.

Kate

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Thanks for your BLM comments, Kate.

However, the origins and aims of BLM has been explained before, and the accusations of marxist / rioters / revolutionaries still persist.

There's no attempt at understanding because admitting that police brutality towards minority communities exists means that some police officers are indeed guilty of wrongdoing, and changes / reforms must be made -- an idea not in keeping with an authoritarian mindset.

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miss lindsey (She/Her)(8a)

haydayhayday

10 hours ago

deegw:

"As are the nearly 200,000 US deaths from covid caused by Trump's incompetence."

Miss Lindsey must be asleep or she'd be here with:

———

Aww, glad you missed me Hay.

10 hours ago I was already at work after a one hour commute though. Sunday is definitely not a sleep-in day in the miss Lindsey household.

As for what what dee posted, where’s the lie?

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haydayhayday

"As for what what dee posted, where’s the lie?"

Read my comment just after the one you're quoting.

Starts with

Fake AND deflecting?

I'm here if you still have a question.

Hay

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elvis

...some police officers are indeed guilty of wrongdoing, and changes / reforms must be made...

Not in dispute, nancy. Not here on HT.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Not here on HT.

We must be reading different threads.

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cattyles

Lindsey, just take your pick from those multiple spammed comments!

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haydayhayday

"I'm here if you still have a question."

It's pretty clear, isn't it?

Hay

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mudhouse

Reports are they think both deputies will survive; no information yet about the long term impact of their injuries. The female officer suffered gunshot wounds to her jaw and arms, and is in critical but stable condition. The male officer suffered gunshot wounds to his forehead, arms, and a hand, and is alert.

LA County Sheriff's Dept is offering a $100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the suspect. They're describing the suspect as a black male, 28-30 years old. He drove away in a black 4 door sedan.


https://abcnews.go.com/US/los-angeles-sheriffs-deputies-shot-ambush-critical-condition/story?id=72978931

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Good news. I hope that the deputies both make a complete recovery.

On the other hand Dalvin Price, Andres Guardado, and Dijon Kizzee are irrevocably dead.

And a Compton Executioner got "ink" for the killing of Andres Guardado.

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mudhouse

The 37 law enforcement officers who've been feloniously killed so far in 2020 are irrevocably dead too. That's a 23% increase over the same period last year.

Thank God the number didn't move up to 39 as a result of last night's shooting in Compton.

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elvis

nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Good news. I hope that the deputies both make a complete recovery.

On the other hand Dalvin Price, Andres Guardado, and Dijon Kizzee are irrevocably dead.

Make sure you tell the deputies that in your get-well card, nancy. I am sure they will appreciate your good thoughts.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

That's a 23% increase over the same period last year.

Gang member deputies within the LASD are also up -- and a civilian killing qualifies them for a specialized tattoo plus preferential treatment within the department.

A little too much like Putin giving bounties to Taliban killing US soldiers in Afghanistan.

Would you like your law enforcement agencies to have secret gangs among the officers?

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AITG

"and a civilian killing qualifies them for a specialized tattoo"

Trophies.

Killings as collectables.

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Gizmo

Video catches Los Angeles sheriffs in lie about events outside hospital where ambushed cops were recovering


https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/video-catches-los-angeles-sheriffs-in-lie-about-events-outside-hospital-where-ambushed-cops-were-recovering/

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Also in the Raw Story article are tweets from Josie Huang, reporter with KPCC FM (So Cal NPR), and a video of her arrest by LASD.

The SD also lies about Huang's actions which supposedly caused the arrest. How dumb is the SD not to know that there will be videos made by Huang and of Huang's arrest that will expose their lies.

So much for the promise made in June that law enforcement would honor the right for reporters to be present during demonstrations and protests.

This is two for two for Josie with L.A.'s law enforcement departments; she was struck by LAPD when covering protests in late May for the killing of George Floyd.

From LAist - https://laist.com/latest/post/20200913/893eeb5a5c59a7e17055e1ccf1b554cca8f3ce07

Los Angeles County Sheriff’s deputies arrested KPCC/LAist Correspondent Josie Huang late Saturday while she was covering the ambush shooting of two deputies in Compton.

Even as she was being thrown to the ground, Huang — who was wearing a lanyard with her press credential hanging from her neck — was recording the encounter. In video that continued to film after her phone was knocked from her hand, Huang can be heard repeatedly identifying herself as a reporter and shouting “KPCC” several times. You also can hear Huang yelling "you're hurting me" and crying out in pain.

The incident occurred outside St. Francis Medical Center in Lynwood, where the two deputies were being treated for gunshot wounds. Huang had just finished covering a 10 p.m. news conference by Sheriff Alex Villanueva and other department officials.

Sheriff’s officials allege that Huang, an award-winning journalist, obstructed justice. The department initially refused to provide details of what happened, but later, Deputy Juanita Navarro of the Sheriff's Information Bureau confirmed that deputies took Huang into custody on suspicion of obstruction of justice by "interfering with a lawful arrest." Huang said she was trying to document the arrest of a protester, an account in line with her video from the scene.

Navarro also said Huang "didn't have proper credentials," but she was clearly wearing press credentials around her neck. A tweet from the Sheriff’s Department at 2:19 a.m. Sunday includes a false claim that Huang did not identify herself as a journalist. Huang told deputies at least five separate times that she was a reporter and KPCC staffer in less than a minute, according to the recording. [Video of Huang's arrest in LAist link.]

Video from ABC7 shows at least five deputies pinning Huang to the pavement, handcuffing her, and placing her in a patrol car. Huang’s phone fell to the ground as she was being arrested, and deputies appear to have stepped on it multiple times as it continued to record.

READ REPORTER JOSIE HUANG'S ACCOUNT OF HER ARREST

In a series of tweets posted Sunday, Huang wrote "I was filming an arrest when suddenly deputies shout 'back up.' Within seconds, I was getting shoved around. There was nowhere to back up ... You see my phone clatter to the ground and I start shouting 'I’m a reporter ... I’m with KPCC.' I scream for help from the TV reporters I know are around the corner doing their 11 p.m. live hits." You can watch the videos here. [ . . . ]

Huang was taken to the women’s jail at the Century Regional Detention Center. She was released at about 4 a.m. without bail, but was cited for an obstruction charge. A KPCC newsroom executive said Huang had visible bruises and scrapes, a sore shoulder and a blackened eye. LAist and KPCC called for an apology from the department. Undersheriff Tim Murakami said he would look into the incident.

KPCC issued this official statement:

"We offer condolences to the two sheriff deputies who were shot Saturday evening.

"These are challenging and stressful times for everyone, but Josie Huang was arrested while doing her job. The charges should be dropped.

"Her arrest is the latest in a series of troubling interactions between our reporters and some local law enforcement officers. Journalists provide an essential service, providing fair, accurate and timely journalism and without them, our democracy is at risk."

[ . . .]

L.A. County Inspector General Max Huntsman told KPCC's Frank Stoltze that he is opening an investigation into Huang’s arrest. [L.A. County] Supervisor Mark Ridley-Thomas, who represents Lynwood, called for an investigation by Huntsman and added that “The Citizens Oversight Commission must convene a special meeting on this matter.”

The incident sparked outrage among fellow journalists, who called her arrest a violation of the First Amendment.

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jmm1837

Oh well, if it's only a violation of the 1st and not the 2nd Amendment, why worry? Yes, that is sarcasm. I await with not so bated breath the condemnation from the right.

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Tito Milian

Female officer treats her partner’s wounds as she bleeds all over the ground, not knowing if the shooter is going to come back to finish them off.


https://mobile.twitter.com/BillFOXLA/status/1305331051112181760/photo/1

BLM ghouls rejoice.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8729597/amp/Shocking-video-shows-enormous-police-response-two-LA-deputies-ambushed.html

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

The Raw Story link above also contains info that contradicts some earlier accusations made by certain HT posters:

------------------

"Video catches Los Angeles sheriffs in lie about events outside hospital where ambushed cops were recovering

[. . .]

"The heartbreaking story took a turn, however, when the officers were recovering at a nearby hospital. The LA County Sheriff’s department tweeted that there was a huge crowd of protesters blocking the hospital entrance and chanting, “we hope they die.”

Despite multiple cell phone videos capturing the protests, none seem to be able to show the so-called “chant.” In fact, videos showed just a few individuals, not a huge crowd of people and nothing was being blocked. One person said the phrase “we hope they die,” one time.

https://twitter.com/GolferGirl305/status/1305160316364480513

There wasn’t a huge crowd of protesters. No ambulances were blocked. There were no chants."

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/video-catches-los-angeles-sheriffs-in-lie-about-events-outside-hospital-where-ambushed-cops-were-recovering/

------------------------

Well, which posters above jumped the gun? Wasn't me--though Hay (and a couple others) kept trying to pronounce me guilty.

Kate

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Toby

All you needed to do was watch the actual video to see what really happened.

Sadly, the anti-BLM agenda detracted from the real story that two officers were shot.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Why, it seems like only yesterday:

vgkg brings it down a little.

"...yeah everyone was so relaxed we lost an extra 150,000 lives. Amazing what 2 weeks difference would have made. Thx Prez Deathwish."

He's precise, though: "we lost an extra 150,000 lives"

------------------

That's not me being precise Hay, it's our experts on the pandemic numbers. Don't bark up my tree, if you want to a bone to pick, pick it with them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/05/21/at-least-54000-us-deaths-could-have-been-avoided-if-lockdown-came-two-weeks-earlier/#518bb58a42f1


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mudhouse

Kate: The Raw Story link above also contains info that contradicts some earlier accusations made by certain HT posters:

Kate, I don't know who "GolfGirl" is, but her tweet (used by Raw Story to refute LACSD's statement about protesters blocking the emergency entry) seems to have been removed, and she looks to have been their solitary source.

Raw Story writes: The heartbreaking story took a turn, however, when the officers were recovering at a nearby hospital. The LA County Sheriff’s department tweeted that there was a huge crowd of protesters blocking the hospital entrance and chanting, “we hope they die.”

Then they show the tweet from the LA County Sheriff's department. I don't see any mention of "huge crowd" or "chanting." I tried, but I can't find any tweets from LACSD using "huge crowd" or "chanting." They use the terms "protesters" and "yelling." And no poster in this thread has used the term "huge crowd" either.


Regarding chants, Raw Story writes: "one person said "we hope they die" one time."

That's not true, either. "I hope they die" is yelled more than once at two different points in the video; I counted four times, but feel free to come up with your own count, in the link I posted above. We can disagree about how many times something needs to be repeated before it's chanting.

Additionally, the protesters yell at the police "You're next!" and "Ya'll gonna die." They repeat this twice: "One by one y'all gonna die you stupid (expletive)" Also, "This ain't gonna stop, more (expletives) are coming down here."

It's up to you, but I'd advise against using Raw Story as a source, and against trying to defend the behavior of these protesters.

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elvis

LEFT BIAS

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Left Bias sources.

  • Overall, we rate Raw Story Left Biased based on story selection that favors the left and Mixed for factual reporting due to half-true, false and unproven claims, as well as promotion of mild pseudoscience misinformation. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/raw-story/
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elvis

LEFT BIAS

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Left Bias sources.

Factual Reporting: MIXED

Raw Progressive is a news and opinion website with a borderline extreme left bias in reporting. Virtually every headline utilizes sensational loaded words that induce clicking (Clickbait). The content of articles is typically sourced to far-left sources such as LeftScoop. Raw Progressive typically takes a news story and interjects left-biased opinions around the story. The opinion is always pro-left and anti-right. Although we could not find any instances of failed fact checks, we still rate them mixed for factual reporting based on strong opinions that can be distracting and misleading from the facts. This source also does not have an “About” page or any other author information, which reduces credibility. (D. Van Zandt 5/25/2017)

Update: As of 2/9/2018 this source is offline.

Source: http://www.rawprogressive.com/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/raw-progressive/

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

There is still the problem with the LASD's account of why KPCC reporter Josie Huang was arrested being contradicted by video evidence, or why a member of the press was arrested at all -- plus the black eye that one of the deputies gave Ms. Huang.

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elvis

nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

There is still the problem with the LASD's account of ...

Nancy, do you think that the attempted murder of these 2 officers is a problem? Do you think that the calls to kill cops were a problem? Please try to keep your eye on the ball.

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Toby

It's up to you, but I'd advise against using Raw Story as a source, and
against trying to defend the behavior of these protesters.

No one tried to defend their behavior! Their language toward the officers is grotesque! Wanting an accurate account of the incident is not defending the protesters. I'm really shocked that you would write such a thing about those who posted here looking for the truth!

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haydayhayday

Elvis, my Malware detector says that your link "Source: rawprogressive..." is infected with malware.

It comes from your link at mediabiasfactcheck, I see.

Another reason to avoid mediabiasfactcheck.

Here's the first reason:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

"The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and Van Zandt as an "armchair media analyst."[3] The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific."[5] Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent "amateur/civic outfit" and wrote that its founder's only qualification was a degree in communications.[4]"


Hay

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Toby

elvis

nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

There is still the problem with the LASD's account of ...

Nancy, do you think that the attempted murder of these 2 officers is a
problem? Do you think that the calls to kill cops were a problem?
Please try to keep your eye on the ball.

OMG!! This is so absurd it's almost comical!

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Gizmo

Toby

elvis

nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

There is still the problem with the LASD's account of ...

Nancy, do you think that the attempted murder of these 2 officers is a
problem? Do you think that the calls to kill cops were a problem?
Please try to keep your eye on the ball.

OMG!! This is so absurd it's almost comical!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't you also just love the shady selective quoting?

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Gizmo

haydayhayday

Elvis, my Malware detector says that your link "rawprogressive" is infected with malware.

Hay

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ahh, the irony

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Well if Elvis doesn't reply back soon it could be that someone was cruel to a heart that was true.

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haydayhayday


Gizmo:

"Ahh, the irony"

The link comes from quoting a page at mediabiasfactcheck.

Wait a few days and someone more to your liking will use mediabiasfactcheck to support one of their sites.

It's a very popular site with our left leaning friends at HT.

Follow the second link Elvis has there,

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/raw-progressive/

and there is the link that seems to have the malware that elvis posted.

From a very popular site with our left leaning friends here at HT.

It happens.

Hay




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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Please try to keep your eye on the ball.

This is an excellent example of deflection from the desperate need for police reform -- in contrast to the assertion that there is universal support on HT for police reform.

My first comment in this thread was to condemn the attack on the deputies.

*

When confronted with the evidence that reporter Huang did identify herself as with the press, LASD now asserts that the press ID on her lanyard -- which has previously served her when covering law enforcement -- is not regulation (denied by her station KPCC), and that Huang verbally identifying herself as with KPCC is not sufficient since KPCC is not well known (number one NPR station in Southern California).

No link as above was heard on KPCC's Air Talk this morning. https://www.scpr.org/programs/airtalk/2020/09/14/66014/2-la-county-sheriff-s-deputies-shot-in-ambush-atta/

Also discussed was the chilling effect Huang's arrest will have on reporting the LASD, and the department's disregard of the right of press to report on events involving police -- there was no skirmish line that Huang crossed, no time between warning to back up and Huang's arrest. Two reporters noted the pattern of LASD not offering information, refusing comments, and the denial of Floyd's autopsy to L.A. County Inspector General Huntsman.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Here is what the L.A. Times had to say on the issue:

-------------------

"The Sheriff’s Department has been under scrutiny for several deputy-involved shootings in recent months. The killing of Dijon Kizzee, 29, in Westmont last month, who was stopped while riding a bicycle, has sparked days of tense protests. On Saturday night, some demonstrators came to St. Francis Medical Center, where the wounded deputies were being treated. The department said on Twitter that some of those protesters had blocked entrances and exits at the hospital, but that could not be independently verified.

Videos from the scene capture at least one person in the crowd yelling, “I hope they ... die.”

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-09-13/sheriffs-deputies-ambush

---------------

I hope the L.A. Times is respectable enough for you.

If there were lots of protesters chanting "I hope they . . . die" and blocking traffic, you would think it would be a lot easier to find video and witness evidence--which seems hard to find!

I think the police were probably talking in "hype" about the crowd and chants and blocked traffic.

Kate

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haydayhayday

Kate:

"Well, which posters above jumped the gun? Wasn't me--though Hay (and a couple others) kept trying to pronounce me guilty."

While I'm almost certainly guilty of pointing out that there are times I think you "jump the gun" on other threads, I don't think I did it on this thread.

I'm pleased, actually, to note that, on this thread, I don't see you "jumping the gun".

I hope we all can continue with the attitude you expressed,

Kate:

"We don't have enough info to say for sure what all was going on, so some posters might want to hold off on assuming that the protesters are one or the other politicial persuasion. We just don't know yet."

It's a good rule for all of us to abide.

And while I'm here....

I congratulate you again:

I don't think I've ever seen any indication that you've ever caused any of my posts to disappear. I respect you immensely for that.

Hay

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mudhouse

If there were lots of protesters chanting "I hope they . . . die"

Kate, I scanned the whole thread again, and I still don't see anyone here discussing the number of protesters, or the size of the crowd, except for you, Toby, and the Raw Story article.

And as the Raw Story article shows, the LACSD tweet doesn't say anything about a crowd, either; as you can see, they just say "protesters." I don't know who you're arguing with.

If you mean it's not a problem if a small number of protesters yelled those disgusting things at police, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it's a problem.

The LA Times not independently verifying the blocking of emergency access doesn't prove it didn't happen. It seems odd (to me) for LA law enforcement to lie about protesters blocking emergency access, but of course we can all choose which sources we think are reliable.

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Gizmo

Love the term 'Copaganda'


Copaganda

I'd like to think that with the numerous instances - big and small - of
cops just making things up and being contradicted by obvious evidence
that the amount of unfiltered copaganda that news outlets willing to
report, even when their own journalists are being beaten up, would be
reduced. But lol NPR.


NPR

@NPR

While covering L.A. protests, journalist Josie Huang was tackled and arrested by several sheriff's deputies. Police say she didn't identify herself as a reporter and was interfering with a lawful arrest. KPCC says Huang was just documenting the arrest.

KPCC Journalist Tackled, Arrested While Trying To Cover L.A. Protest

Police say reporter Josie Huang didn't identify herself as a reporter, and was interfering with a lawful arrest. KPCC says Huang was just documenting the arrest on video when police tackled her.

npr.org

4:33 PM · Sep 13, 2020

Each side has a story, who can say???

Here's Huang herself about All That.
by
Atrios
at
08:30

67 Comments

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

It seems odd for LA law enforcement to lie about protesters blocking emergency access

Not for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department which in the past was put under a federal consent decree.

If Trump's DOJ were still committed to consent decrees, I have no doubt that Sheriff Villanueva's department would qualify. He is as corrupt a law enforcement officer as we have seen.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The following are Los Angeles County Deputy gangs within the Sheriff's Department -- both past and present -- in the past 50 years. Some gangs have been neo-Nazis, white supremacists, disappearing after investigations only to reappear later in other guises with new members. (East Los Angeles and South Los Angeles seem to be the primary problem areas with these gangs.) No one can doubt that there is a systemic problems with deputy gangs within the Sheriff's Department.

*

Little Devils

Grim Reapers

Pirates

Vikings

Rattlesnakes

Cavemen

Spartans

Regulators

Banditos

Executioners

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-mar-24-mn-20461-story.html 

https://news.yahoo.com/l-county-deputy-alleges-executioner-231811948.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALKz-zEuW3Ktj_2lWpqGETXjsjfmJmnGOwY1xfhekdjxnkUiQGv3o6mJNDwYLM6ZAssSgEy7aVc0dhwG186DkRICTjT5zAyllUwLZJLhcv7emYZN1-aMBgZ8utE1aqKiFGPl5WOh19vaadAjb63hoEryQYbUKjGSmjtTGpcq3DXK&guccounter=2

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cattyles

Raw Progressive is not the same site as Raw Story.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Another KPCC interview re arrest of Josie Huang: A lawyer specializing in first amendment cases stated that since the protest was a public event in a public space, there was NO requirement that Ms. Huang have any type of press ID.

Interview on Take Two hosted by A. Martinez.

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elvis

haydayhayday

Elvis, my Malware detector says that your link "Source: rawprogressive..." is infected with malware.

It comes from your link at mediabiasfactcheck, I see.

Another reason to avoid mediabiasfactcheck.

Thanks, Hay. I'll avoid it in the future Actually, I don't put much stock in mediabiasfactcheck anyway. I know a couple of posters here rely on it, so I figured I'd use it. No more!

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haydayhayday

Elvis posted two posts using Mediabiasfactcheck as the source.

The first one doesn't appear to be infected by my anti-virus protector.

That's this post:

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Elvis:

"LEFT BIAS

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Left Bias sources.


Overall, we rate Raw Story Left Biased based on story selection that favors the left and Mixed for factual reporting due to half-true, false and unproven claims, as well as promotion of mild pseudoscience misinformation. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/raw-story/";

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Mediabiasfactcheck puts this link into their analysis of this rawstory:

https://www.rawstory.com/

which looks to be exactly what some of you are quoting.

Mediabiasfactcheck is indeed a favorite go-to for some of our more left leaning posters.

Something else that might be "worth remembering".


Hay




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HU-400972298

Tucker played the call from the LEOs, radioing in for help. As the female LEO is bleeding from her head, shot in the jaw, mouth full of blood, you can hear her slurring as she tries to speak and move her broken mouth, in order to get backup to save their lives.

As thugs FILMED THEM, LAUGHING AND REJOICING as the mother tended to her partner's bleeding head, wondering if the thug was going to come back to finish them off.

"Pigs"

"High five"

"Die mfer"

"Oink oink"

"Hope they die"

"This is the start of retribution. It's a very good start" Said BLM activist and "community leader", Kevin Wharton Price.

Mayor Garcetti's "go to" liasion for "cultural competency". In other words, the BLM thug who was making demands as Garcetti fawned in capitualtion.

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Ann

HU298, I saw that on Tucker's show. I'm so stunned and shocked by the whole story and all the video that I just can't even write my feelings.

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elvis

Horrible. Those people were watching, not helping, cheering at the horrible injuries, laughing. Something is terribly wrong with them.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Mayor Garcetti's "go to" liasion for "cultural competency". In other words, the BLM thug who was making demands as Garcetti fawned in capitualtion.

What the heck does Eric Garcetti have to do with the attack in Compton?

Compton is an incorporated city -- not part of the City of Los Angeles -- and has its own mayor, Aja Brown, who has related her own driving-while-Black problems with LASD.

Compton is in the County of Los Angeles, hence the LASD, and not the LAPD.


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Ann

That's what my husband said as we watched, Elvis. He said, "Those people are really messed up.". I couldn't even respond to him. It's all just far too weird for me to even try to wrap my brain around.

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Toby

The little I could find on Kevin Wharton Price is that he is associated with a group called Africa Town Coalition. I could find nothing identifying him or Africa Town Coalition as BLM activists--unless you count Reddit, but they're as reliable as HT is these days.

This incident had nothing to do with BLM. It was not protesters coming from a BLM protest. It was a few cop-hating black men who I would bet believe that black lives matter more so than any other lives.

Weren't you earlier today concerned about "false narratives" that led to violence? You seem to like your own just fine.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

These videos gives an example of the distrust the people of Compton have towards the LASD.

https://twitter.com/josie_huang/status/1304955387481735168

https://twitter.com/josie_huang/status/1304976539235151874

https://twitter.com/josie_huang/status/1304885229019000833

https://twitter.com/josie_huang/status/1304871257188438017


LASD deputy attacks a peaceful legal observer. Notice the one deputy with a weapon drawn on the group of legal observers who finally lowers his weapon after being told several times that he is aiming at a group of lawyers.

https://twitter.com/josie_huang/status/1304865544886038528


All these videos -- plus more -- are on the twitter account of Josie Huang, the reporter arrested by LASD for doing her job diligently.

Makes one wonder if she was intentionally targeted.

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paprikash

You couldn’t pay me to visit crazy liberal CA. Those poor officers will never be the same. The thug’s life who did this doesn’t matter at all.

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haydayhayday

People need to put a name on things.

And then go on and on about just what name that should be.

And so it starts:

Toby:

"Do those three people represent all BLM, all protesters, all demonstrators, and/or all black people?

The way this is being presented feeds that narrative."

And then on and on......

"The little I could find on Kevin Wharton Price is that he is associated with a group called Africa Town Coalition. I could find nothing identifying him or Africa Town Coalition as BLM activists--unless you count Reddit, but they're as reliable as HT is these days."


Took me two clicks:




The guy has a very limited vocabulary and every other word is vulgar street talk. If you click, be aware of what you're going to hear.

At 4:09 he says the words, "Black Lives Matter."

But that doesn't count because.......

______

Off to the hospital:



Where, once again, a very limited vocabulary. Be aware: every other word is vulgar street talk.

One word that kept being thrown around?

"My comrade, my comrade...."

Funny.

Where have I heard that word before?

Have fun.

Hay

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Back to MediaBias--has anyone offered proof that its assessments of various sources are inaccurate? Is an "armchair amateur" by definition an error-prone source?

According to the dictionary www.vocabulary.com , "An amateur is a person who does something for enjoyment, not money, like an amateur who paints as a hobby but earns a living another way."

I think some of you are selling MediaBias short just because it doesn't fit well with your politics. At least I have never seen it widely denounced (or denounced at all) as an unreliable source. Please provide your proofs of its supposed inadequacies before you go around condemning it.

Kate

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haydayhayday

"I think some of you are selling MediaBias short just because it doesn't fit well with your politics. At least I have never seen it widely denounced (or denounced at all) as an unreliable source. Please provide your proofs of its supposed inadequacies before you go around condemning it."

If you didn't hear it the first two or three times, what makes you think you'll hear it now, Admiral Horatio Nelson?

Hay

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haydayhayday

Believe what you want to believe.

This is what Mediabias says about the rawstory site you're relying on:


"History


Raw Story was founded by John K. Byrne in 2004, as a liberal alternative to the Drudge Report."


Ouch!!!

"Analysis / Bias


In review, Raw Story is mostly a news aggregation site that aggregates news from AFP and Reuters. Raw Story also summarizes news from other sources such as this: “Irate customer drags salon owner 50 feet to her death after running out on manicure without paying.” Infrequently, they publish original stories such as this: Trans activist detained in Arizona and threatened with deportation due to bureaucratic catch-22. Raw Story consistently utilizes strong emotionally loaded headlines such as “Trump insists border wall will be ‘all concrete’ — except where it’s ‘see-through’: ‘Makes sense to me!’” and “MSNBC’s Morning Joe mocks ‘confused’ Trump over shutdown boasts: ‘Voters are blaming him’”.


When it comes to sourcing, Raw Story generally sources to credible media outlets such as the Washington Blade, Las Vegas Review-Journal, and the St. Louis Post Dispatch. In general, story selection always favors the left and frequently has an anti-Trump tone. Raw Story has published misleading articles that promote miracle cures such as this one: Scientists discover virus that kills all grades of breast cancer ‘within seven days’. This headline is misleading, as within the article they clearly state “but not in normal mammary epithelial cells.” When it comes to consensus science, they sometimes promote anti-GMO propaganda, however, they also publish credible scientifically sound information as well.


A factual search reveals a Half-True claim from Politifact as well as a false claim and an Unproven claim with Snopes."

Hay

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foodonastump

But that doesn't count because.......


...because it’s a phrase.


The lack of distinction between the phrase and the organization, between the organization and any other group that marches or peacefully riots using that phrase, is definitely problematic. I’ve been objecting to the ambiguity for a long time. A renaming/rebranding would be beneficial in my opinion.


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elvis

I’ve been objecting to the ambiguity for a long time. A renaming/rebranding would be beneficial in my opinion.

We conservatives here on HT have said that in posts many times, same with "defund the police".

But, like "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon", that would mean learning new chants. What with the limited vocabulary and short attention span of most of these protesters, that's likely not practical.

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foodonastump

Of course there would also have to a desire to disambuguate.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Hay, your post makes no sense. I was talking about the accuracy of MediaBias's assessments. You changed the subject and started talking about Raw Story--though I have no idea why. I can't tell if you think MediaBias correctly or incorrectly rated Raw Story.

My post was a defense of MediaBias. It had absolutely nothing to do with Raw Story--unless you are offering its asssessment of Raw STory as an example of how wrong you believe the assessments of MediaBias are.

Like many of these prolonged threads, much of this one makes little sense!

Kate

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haydayhayday

Kate:

"Hay, your post makes no sense."

Or, as a friend of mine once said,

"If you're so smart, why can't you explain it to me?"

Hay

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I should note, however, that if it is true that "Raw Story was founded . . . as a liberal alternative to the Drudge Report," then my opinion of Raw Story just rose considerably. Anything the opposite of Drudge Report must have a lot going for it!

Kate

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Ann

"peacefully riots"

??????

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haydayhayday


Kate:

"Anything the opposite of Drudge Report must have a lot going for it!"

Two sides of the same coin.

Hay

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mudhouse

Kate, if you search, you can find fact checkers of fact checking sites. There are sites that question the reliability of specific fact checking sites. People don't agree which fact checkers are the most reliable.

Human beings are biased. The best thing is to keep in mind that anything you read is affected by your own preexisting beliefs, and what you're reading was affected by the beliefs of the person who wrote it.

About all we can do is try to read across a lot of sources, and find what we think makes the most sense and is most credible, based on our own experience and thinking. We go with that, but we should try to remember that it's a fool's game to think there's any one site that's a perfect source of the One Real Truth.

It's also good to remember that what we may see as absolute truth is often seen as a flawed opinion by others. And vice versa. On we go.

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mudhouse

I’ve been objecting to the ambiguity for a long time. A renaming/rebranding would be beneficial in my opinion.

Food, I think (and you may be saying) that the ambiguity goes far beyond the name of Black Lives Matter. I think the movement means entirely different things to different people - in some cases, wildly different things. To me, those differences in meaning seem to be broadening since the death of George Floyd.

So it's no surprise to me that it's almost impossible to have clear discussions about the benefits or negative consequences of the movement.

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foodonastump

Ann - “Peaceful riots” is a term I learned from lurker. Love it.

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foodonastump

Toby I have zero issues with the phrase itself. I don’t know which came first, the phrase or the movement, but as mudhouse is saying it’s a big blur.

My trusting side says the blur is unintentional and unfortunate. The cynic in me wonders if it’s convenient.

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mudhouse

Toby, almost every general article I've read about Black Lives Matter includes a statement agreeing that black lives do matter, of course. One podcast I listened to made the point that the name of the movement was directed more at black people themselves, because the (black) podcast author felt that some black people weren't even certain at a deep level that their own lives mattered much. If that's true, that's a problem for everybody.

The objections to that phrase has its roots in deep-seated racism.

I disagree; to me, objecting to the phrase "all lives matter" can be heard as a racist response. I say that because my ultimate goal is being able to judge people based the merits of their character, and not skin color, so I support a statement that doesn't qualify which lives matter, based on race.

So "all lives matter" is consistent with my ultimate goal.

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foodonastump

My ultimate goal is being able to judge people based the merits of their character, and not skin color, so I support a statement that doesn't qualify which lives matter based on race.


“Black Lives Matter” does not qualify which lives matter. It should be no more objectionable to whites than “save blue whales” should be to the spotted owl.

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mudhouse

Okay, but I think the meaning changes when you go from "matter" to "save."

"Save black lives" has a different meaning to me than "black lives matter." Of course black lives matter. Saving lives implies a threat or risk, so the response to one phrase is not the same as to the other.

If you said "Blue Whales Matter" I'd say, of course they do. So do spotted owls. All species matter.

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foodonastump

It’s hard for me to read this as anything but intentional distortion of the obvious intent of the phrase.

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haydayhayday


Nitpicking.

I'm beginning to think it must be hardwired into our evolutionary brains.



With all the closeup group selfies in recent times, there has been such a big surge in nits that there are now professional nitpickers.

Hay

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haydayhayday

When all else fails, nitpick it to death.

Hay

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Toby

I haven't seen many liberals object to the phrase but I've seen plenty of conservatives object to it. When did conservatives start objecting to it? Was there a trigger event?

I know the phrase and movement started because of Trayvon Martin. I wasn't too politically aware then but what I do remember is that conservatives and Fox News tried to paint Trayvon as a thug in a hoodie who smoked marijuana, and that he somehow "asked for it". George Zimmerman was supported by conservatives. So you can see that there was a racist narrative in play from the very beginning. "Black lives matter" wasn't even interpreted as "police lives don't matter" back then but conservatives were raising objections to the phrase anyway.

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haydayhayday

"People need to put a name on things.

And then go on and on about just what name that should be.

And so it starts:"


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Toby:

"Do those three people represent all BLM, all protesters, all demonstrators, and/or all black people?

The way this is being presented feeds that narrative."

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

And then go on and on.....

And then go on and on....

And then go on and on.....

And then go on and on....


Hay

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elvis

“Black Lives Matter” does not qualify which lives matter. It should be no more objectionable to whites than “save blue whales” should be to the spotted owl.

My opinion: "Save Black Lives" would have been a better motto.

Mud's point is sound, and I agree.

foodonastump

It’s hard for me to read this as anything but intentional distortion of the obvious intent of the phrase.

Fair enough, Food.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

"if you search, you can find fact checkers of fact checking sites."

If you know of fact checkers who check fact checkers, please share some names. Or do you just mean that different folks have different opinions? That would be an entirely different matter, wouldn't it.

However, that has nothing to do with the point I was making about Hay and Elvis trying to rebut my statements about MediaBias's reliability even though it is an admittedly "amateur" site (someone who enjoys fact-checking but doesn't earn his living at it) by discussing Raw Story--which obviously is NOT MediaBias.

That is what does not make sense.

Thank you for the lecture on "bias." Though why you think a professor who taught such matters for over 35 years needed such a lecture, I don't really know.

Let me return the favor with a lecture for you. There is a key word you are omitting from your definition of "bias"--namely, an UNFAIR judgment. I think you might be blurring the distinction between "subjectivity" (being influenced by personal feelings or opinions") and "biased" (being unfairly prejudiced for or against something).

While anyone is capable of being biased (unfairly prejudiced), people who are intelligent, self-aware, educated, and/or trying to be fair are much less likely to be biased to any great degree and are usually quick to work on eliminating any bias they discover in themselves. That, of course, can be a life-time project.

Instead, consider the differences between subjectivity and objectivity--and think in terms of degrees rather than absolutes. People can be more or less subjective (influenced by personal feelings or opinions) or more or less objective (impartial, unprejudiced, not influenced by personal feelings or opinions). One of the goals of higher education is to teach students to become more objective--whether they are math majors or science majors or any major that includes analytical approaches (such as analyzing a poem). While probably no one achieves 100% objectivity, one can certainly learn to increase considerably one's ability to approach subjects more objectively or at least less subjectively--to be more neutral, in other words.

Bringing all this back to my earlier post about MediaBias, I would point out that there is nothing inherently subjective/objective or biased/unbiased about someone being an amateur fact-checker (done for enjoyment but not for pay); therefore, the earlier implication that MediaBias is untrustworthy because its owner is an amateur cannot be supported.

Any one else want a free lecture? I have lots of them stored up. : )

Kate

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mudhouse

Thank you, Kate, for your thoughts. Apparently I'm unable to write mine in a way that doesn't come across to you as a lecture, and I'm glad you let me know. It'll save me some time and effort in the future, and I appreciate that.

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HU-400972298

My opinion: "Save Black Lives" would have been a better motto.


"Black people stop killing black people."

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HU-400972298

Big problem is the cultural baseline for many blacks is hatred of cops. Period. It's how they're raised and socialized. There's no respect, and it starts in the home.


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olychick

Everyone stop killing Black people as if their lives don’t matter as much as white peoples’ lives.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

If all lives really mattered, there would not be the need for the phrase "black lives matter."

"Black people stop killing black people."

White people should stop killing white people too -- but that phrase doesn't advance the fear campaign being waged by Team Trump.

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olychick

Why would you respect a group who uses their power to kill innocent members of your community? Someone, maybe Dave Chappell does a stand up routine about why, even though he’s well known, successful, etc. would never call the cops if his house was robbed. He says that he believes the cops would show up and find him in this gorgeous, fancy house and they would assume they’d caught the burglar in the act and shoot him. Imagine if that’s how you view law enforcement based on your experiences and observations.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

It is a Black peoples' movement created by them. They have a right to name it whatever they want. All us non-Blacks should just quit butting our heads into their business. It is none of our business--unless we want to sympathize and/or help out. But it still remains their movement, not ours.

Kate

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mudhouse

Why would you respect a group who uses their power to kill innocent members of your community?

The two deputies sitting in their car who were ambushed and shot in the head were innocent.

Imagine if that’s how you view law enforcement based on your experiences and observations.

Imagine if you view law enforcement as people whose murders deserve to be celebrated.

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elvis

dublinbay z6 (KS)

It is a Black peoples' movement created by them

You think? Maybe. that's true, maybe not.

Thank you for the lecture on "bias." Though why you think a professor who taught such matters for over 35 years needed such a lecture, I don't really know.

Since you opened the door, what exactly did you teach, at what grade level, and where, i.e., high school, junior college, university, correspondence course?

For some reason, I thought it was history or lit.

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Toby

Mudhouse, this recent shooting does not negate the historic treatment of blacks by our justice system.

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Toby

So which is a bigger problem, mudhouse--the wider black community in every city in every state not trusting the police or these two LA officers who were shot by one assailant and whose shootings were celebrated by a small group of people?

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miss lindsey (She/Her)(8a)

“Big problem is the cultural baseline for many blacks is hatred of cops. Period. It's how they're raised and socialized. There's no respect, and it starts in the home.”

Same was true in my lily white midwestern home too.

Cops don’t automatically get my respect. They can earn it, or not, and I must obey their orders or face the consequences.

But no human has the right to *demand* respect of another.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The attack on the two deputies was wrong, and the history of violence against the residents of Compton by law enforcement is wrong.

Deputy/officer gangs within law enforcement in South and East Los Angeles dates back 50 years -- and still in existence today -- with status given to those who commit violence against civilians. The Executioners gang has been accused of running the LASD station in Compton.

Can anyone truthfully say that they would want members of a violent law enforcement gang policing their community? Please remember actual guilt or innocence can be totally unrelated to police actions, including arrest or shootings.

This is the day-to-day reality in Compton and other areas of South Los Angeles.

The inability, or lack of will, to eliminate deputy/officer gangs endangers the lives of honest, hard-working members of law enforcement in Compton and elsewhere.

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mudhouse

So which is a bigger problem, mudhouse--the wider black community in every city in every state not trusting the police or these two LA officers who were shot by one assailant and whose shootings were celebrated by a small group of people?

Toby, I'm not sure why you're comparing the broader problem of distrust of police by the wider black community with the single incident of this particular Compton shooting.

If we're going to try to weigh out serious problems, we should put the distrust of police by the black community in one hand, and the viewpoint that violence against police is justified in the other hand.

The existence of the latter problem, the viewpoint that violence against police is justified, is being demonstrated not just with this shooting, but with violent rhetoric at protests in recent years, and other attacks on law enforcement. Less than an hour ago, a US Marshal was wounded in a drive by shooting in front of the federal court building in downtown Phoenix.

https://ktar.com/story/3566537/federal-officer-wounded-in-drive-by-shooting-at-phoenix-courthouse/

So far this year, out of the 37 law enforcement officers that have lost their lives in felonious assaults, eight were victims of premeditated ambushes, and two more lost their lives as victims of unprovoked attacks.

Both are serious problems with very dangerous consequences for the country.

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Gizmo

“Big problem is the cultural baseline for many blacks is hatred of cops.
Period. It's how they're raised and socialized. There's no respect, and
it starts in the home.”

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Couldn't the same also be said for the police?


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Toby

mudhouse Toby, I'm not sure why you're comparing the broader problem of
distrust of police by the wider black community with the single incident
of this particular Compton shooting.

Because that's what you did here. Olychick asked a question about the broader perspective of the black community and you answered it from the police communities' perspective, citing one incident of which only a few black people were involved.

mudhouse

Why would you respect a group who uses their power to kill innocent members of your community?

The two deputies sitting in their car who were ambushed and shot in the head were innocent.

Imagine if that’s how you view law enforcement based on your experiences and observations.

Imagine if you view law enforcement as people whose murders deserve to be celebrated.

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elvis

Cops don’t automatically get my respect. They can earn it, or not, and I must obey their orders or face the consequences. But no human has the right to *demand* respect of another.

I think "demand" is a strange choice of words. "Expect" is a better fit for me. But. okay. So, conversely, lindsey, do you believe that you have no right to expect respect from the police?

It looks as though any interaction you might have with law enforcement is going to be pretty...unpleasant.

I disagree with you here. Reasonable people should expect respect from each other.

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miss lindsey (She/Her)(8a)

It’s a little different when my taxes are paying their salaries, but no I wouldn’t say I can expect or demand their respect. I obey the law and I expect them to do the same, I know our interactions will be much more pleasant if we are courteous to one another. Just like any brief interaction between two people.

I should have clarified in my first post that I am referring to respect beyond the decency that one person owes another.

But I don’t owe any police officer any of the obsequiousness that so many of them seem to think I should show. I don’t feel obligated to “sir” or “ma’am” them. I believe I am perfectly justified in reminding them of my rights under the law and there should be absolutely no fall out from that.

As far as reasonable people, it’s my belief that reasonable people should only have expectations for their *own* behaviour (and to a certain extent, that of the children they are responsible for). In that sense I have no reason to expect respect from anyone. I do generally presume that most people are well-intentioned though.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Elvis--taught English (mostly American literature, some International literature on occasion) and Women's Studies at a university to undergraduate majors and non-majors and to graduate students.

Your curiosity strikes me as a bit strange, however. Why did you want to know?

Kate

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elvis

dublinbay z6 (KS)

Elvis--taught English (mostly American literature, some International literature on occasion) and Women's Studies at a university to undergraduate majors and non-majors and to graduate students.

Your curiosity strikes me as a bit strange, however. Why did you want to know?

I was trying to ascertain your qualifications for making this statement: Thank you for the lecture on "bias." Though why you think a professor who taught such matters for over 35 years needed such a lecture, I don't really know.

You answered my question, thanks.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

You're welcome.

Kate

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Ziemia(6a)

"save black lives" indicates to me that Black people need saving by someone. And that is not the message.

PS: so, this is all capitalized but the one about Black people isn't.

""Save black lives" has a different meaning to me than "black lives matter." Of course black lives matter. Saving lives implies a threat or risk, so the response to one phrase is not the same as to the other.

"If you said "Blue Whales Matter" I'd say..."

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I think "black lives matter" says exactly what BLM means.

Some trumpsters, however, certainly do work hard trying to squeeze alternate (and discredited) meanings out of that phrase.

Kate

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lurker111

BLM = domestic terrorism. Nothing else.

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Kathy

Why don’t conservatives try to discuss the reason for the BLM title with blacks rather than criticizing the movement because of the title? There is never a right time, a right phrase, a right issue or a right reason for Blacks to protest, ask for equality or mention anything about racism.


The conservatives minimize the plight of blacks because they might just have to open their minds to the racism in America.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

From 9/14:

In the wake of Saturday night’s shooting of two L.A. County Sheriff’s Department deputies in Compton, several activists have come forward to denounce the violence and urge the department to engage in more dialogue with the community.

Najee Ali, an activist at the forefront of ongoing protests around the Aug. 31 fatal shooting of Dijon Kizzee, and LaWanda Hawkins, the founder of Justice for Murdered Children, a group that represents families of homicide victims, stood Monday morning outside St. Francis Medical Center in Lynwood to deliver a reconciliatory message amid rising tensions between residents and law enforcement.

“We don’t support shooting. We don’t support the murder of anybody,” Ali told a group of reporters. “At the end of the day, we’re not against the Sheriff’s Department. We’re not against law enforcement. We are simply against police abuse, police racial profiling, police mistreatment of Black and brown residents within the city.”

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-09-14/activists-seek-dialogue-with-sheriffs-department-after-deputy-shooting-inflames-tensions

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elvis

Good, I hope he's willing and able to be helpful.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

willing and able to be helpful

The Sheriff's Department threw more gasoline on the fire, and Sheriff Villanueva continues to be the belligerent idiot he has been since his election.

Sheriff’s combative response to shocking deputy attack sparks new alarms, criticism https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-09-16/sheriff-deputies-shooting-response

But the agency’s response to the attack has raised alarms among some activists, lawmakers and Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department watchdogs, who question whether the aggressive rhetoric is inflaming rather than easing tensions at a moment when community groups are protesting several controversial shootings by deputies amid a national discussion over policing and race.

Within 24 hours, a longtime Sheriff’s Department spokeswoman posted tweets about the attack that employed racist stereotypes in reference to a reward for information leading to the arrest of the shooter. In one post accompanied by a GIF of a Black man shuffling bills, she wrote: “And here’s the neighborhood homies and enemies ‘bout to come up’ on that $100,000 #REWARD because $100,000 dollas is $100,000 dollas.”

The spokeswoman, Deputy Juanita Navarro-Suarez, later deleted the posts. When asked to respond, she said: “Everyone has an opinion, and that’s it.”

Deputies also arrested a public radio reporter covering the aftermath of the shooting, offering a narrative of the incident that was refuted by videos the reporter had recorded on her phone.

Sheriff Alex Villanueva then doubled down, defending the arrest while accusing politicians and athletes of “fanning the flames of hatred” during this time of unrest over police brutality. [ . . . ]

L.A. County Inspector General Max Huntsman is now investigating the reporter’s arrest. A spokesman for the department said the offensive tweets were being reviewed internally as well.

Since taking office in 2018, Villanueva has clashed repeatedly with civilian overseers and the Board of Supervisors, who have accused him of rehiring officials with tainted backgrounds and unraveling policing reforms instituted after a massive corruption scandal that brought criminal convictions against former Sheriff Lee Baca and other commanders.

Priscilla Ocen, a member of the Sheriff Civilian Oversight Commission, said she was particularly alarmed by the racist tweets, which she described as “insulting to the residents of Compton and the surrounding areas” at a time when the department needed to build trust and relationships in those communities.

“Although the statements are racist and reprehensible, they are not surprising,” she added, saying Villanueva “set the example for this kind of rhetoric” when he recently used a derogatory term in reference to County Supervisor Hilda Solis.

Now, as the two deputies are recovering from gunshot wounds, to the head and face, the Sheriff’s Department once again finds itself under investigation by the Office of Inspector General, which is reviewing its handling of KPCC and LAist reporter Josie Huang’s arrest, as well as deputies’ actions during a news conference held Friday by activists in South L.A.

The Sheriff’s Department said that Huang did not identify herself as a member of the media and lacked “proper” press credentials during a confrontation in which a protester was arrested outside St. Francis Medical Center in Lynwood, where the two wounded deputies were being treated.

That account was directly contradicted by videos Huang shared on Twitter, which showed that she did not intervene in the man’s arrest but instead was filming from a distance. As deputies take her to the ground, she can clearly be heard identifying herself as a reporter with KPCC and screaming for help.

Despite that, Villanueva told the Associated Press that Huang “crossed the line from journalism to activism” in getting too close to the deputies during the episode.

“All I can say is, in the heat of the moment when these protesters are calling or chanting for the death of the deputies in the emergency room, she picked the worst time possible to try to get an up-close of the deputies making an arrest,” Villanueva said. “That’s on her.”

Solis called the footage of Huang’s arrest “extremely disturbing” and requested an outside investigation by Huntsman.

Huang “was simply doing her job and clearly identified herself,” Solis said in a statement. “Journalists are critical in safeguarding our democracy and they should not be treated this way.”

The reporter’s arrest came a day after sheriff’s deputies in riot gear surrounded a news conference hosted by activists near the South L.A. sheriff’s station. Speakers condemned the department’s use of pepper balls and rubber bullets against demonstrators gathering regularly to protest the Aug. 31 killing of bicyclist Dijon Kizzee by deputies in the Westmont neighborhood of South Los Angeles. In interviews, protesters have challenged the Sheriff’s Department’s narrative that they instigated the confrontations by throwing bottles and rocks at deputies.

At Friday’s event, a deputy grabbed a legal observer who had been filming him. When the news conference ended, the deputies ordered those attending, including reporters, to leave the area.

“Those two incidents are of concern to us because First Amendment rights are absolutely critical to the public’s respect of law enforcement,” Huntsman said. “And so we feel that requires immediate investigation.”

Huntsman and other public officials have long criticized the department for resisting oversight and accountability. And a string of controversial police shootings and beatings caught on camera in Compton and South L.A., along with allegations of misconduct, have intensified mistrust of the department among residents in the community.

After the killing of Andres Guardado, who was shot five times in the back by a deputy in June, Villanueva’s chief of staff posted on social media that the 18-year-old “chose his fate.” [ . . . ]

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Continuation of the LA Times article with complete text from Sheriff's Department spokesperson:

Then there was a series of bizarre tweets by Navarro-Suarez, after officials announced a $100,000 reward for information to help find the attacker.

“My advice to all the ex-girlfriends, side pieces, friends, wifey, ol’ lady, dime, queen, baby momma who know the #ComptonAmbush shooter of 2 LA Sheriff’s about getting that $100,000 #REWARD...,” Navarro-Suarez wrote next to an image of a Black woman saying, “Make that money girl.”

The tweets were quickly condemned as unprofessional, perpetuating offensive stereotypes of Black communities and exacerbating already deep tensions with law enforcement.

Within about two hours, they were deleted.

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Tito Milian

So when are Kamala and her VP pick going to visit these officers and tell them how proud they are?

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haydayhayday

So when are Kamala and her VP pick going to visit these officers and tell them how proud they are?



He did manage to bring his entourage to Kenosha.

Hay

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Toby

Wow! That spokeswoman has to go!

Why does the Sheriff's Department have jurisdiction over the city of Compton? Here they only have jurisdiction over unincorporated areas of the county.

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Ziemia(6a)

Does this mean fact checking is the same as examining a claim against what one thinks and experienced?

"About all we can do is try to read across a lot of sources, and find what we think makes the most sense and is most credible, based on our own experience and thinking. "

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

UPDATE: BLM was NOT involved, according to this HuffPost article:

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"People Yelled ‘I Hope They Die’ About Ambushed LA Deputies. They Weren’t BLM Protesters.

On Saturday night, after two Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies were shot in the head while sitting in their patrol car, a handful of people stood outside the hospital where they were being treated and celebrated the attack. At least one person shouted that he hoped the deputies died.

Right-wing media, including Fox News and Breitbart, latched onto the story, eager to link the small gathering to the massive Black Lives Matter movement against police brutality and systemic racism.

[. . .]

In fact, the demonstration consisted of four people. They were members of the so-called Africa Town Coalition ― a Black advocacy group that is not affiliated with the Black Lives Matter national organization.

[. . .]

Cellphone video recorded by one of the demonstrators shows the four men walking toward the hospital’s entrance and attempting to get inside. . . .

The small group can be heard celebrating the deputies’ injuries and bashing police officers as “pigs” and “murderers.” At least one shouts that he hopes the deputies “f**k*** die.” Eventually, roughly a dozen law enforcement officers arrive and demand that the demonstrators leave. At least one officer shown on the video draws a gun at the protesters.

The demonstration lasted less than 10 minutes and resulted in the arrests of one protester and one journalist who was covering the confrontation. The sheriff’s office said the journalist neither identified herself nor carried press credentials. Video of her violent arrest showedboth claims were false.

In a video posted to Facebook on Monday, Africa Town Coalition leader Kevin Wharton Price identified himself as one of the demonstrators at the hospital. He stated explicitly that his group is “not Black Lives Matter.”

“We’ve been on some actions with Black Lives Matter, but we have our own political agenda,” Wharton said. “Not Black Lives Matter. Not antifa.”

[. . .]

In his video, Wharton said his group supports neither Trump nor Biden for president and said “many of us” won’t vote in the election.

[. . .]

Since Floyd’s death, tens of thousands of demonstrators have taken to the streets in solidarity with Black Lives Matter. The protests have been largely peaceful, and though their demands vary, all of the demonstrators are unified against police brutality.

None of the Africa Town Coalition members who showed up at the hospital chanted “Black Lives Matter” or appeared to hold any signs linking them to the movement.

Portraying the four Africa Town Coalition members who showed up at the hospital as reflective of the vast nationwide movement is simply inaccurate"

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/los-angeles-deputies-protest-hospital-134258699.html

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OK--waiting for some apologies from the posters above--especially from those who jumped the gun!

Kate

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haydayhayday

"People need to put a name on things.

And then go on and on about just what name that should be.

And so it starts:"

It just never ends.

Hay

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Toby

I still don't know what's really behind the anti-BLM agenda and false narrative that started this thread and others like it.

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