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gabecascadia

Look at my plans. What's good? Not so good? Where to go from here?

Gabe Cascadia
3 years ago

We bought five forested acres, cleared one acre for a house and garage, installed the driveway, trenched the utilities, and now looking for the right builder. It’s our first build and we plan on it being our last. I developed the site plan and drew the house and garage in Sketchup then had a designer draft the house and garage for engineering and building permits. I’ve never designed a house before and I’m not very informed about architecture. I designed the house based on how I wanted to interact with the surroundings – mountain views to the east, large old-growth maples to the south, foothills to the west, and mixed deciduous/evergreen forest to the north. The views along with a desire to bring in lots of light to help get through the dark and rainy months in the Pacific northwest dictated lots of windows. I also factored in our tight budget, hence simple and practical, and some favored design elements such as a mostly single level close to the ground house with moderately pitched roofs and open floor plan. We will have HardiPlank siding using a variety of reveal widths in a pattern that appears random (see photo below for example) except for the covered entrance porch which will be HardiShake panel or painted cedar shake. Roof will initially be composite but eventually replaced with metal.


For the interior, we will be utilizing maple and alder milled from trees from the property. We will use the wood for window stools, baseboard, live-edge slab benches, a dining room table, the stairs, and possibly wood plank accent walls in the master bedroom, the foyer, the piano nook, and on the face of the island cabinets. Windows will be vinyl with drywall returns and a 2” thick maple stool (inside sill). The wall behind the woodstove will be rusted Corten steel to mimic the color of the mountains to the east. Flooring will be vinyl plank and I like light- to honey-brown wood color. Cabinets will be simple flat faces or shaker style. Countertops will be solid color Ceasarstone, or PaperStone. For interior colors I like grays, light green, rust orange, and cream colors. I’m considering medium gray counters and a light gray island top in the kitchen with a gray-green tile backsplash. Seagrass (light green) countertops in the bathroom and red-orange rust tile in the shower surround.


The plans are lacking the detail because the house designer that drafted the drawings was difficult to work with. I need some advice on how to take what we have and make sure we end up with a cohesive overall design style both inside and out. I want to make decisions now so we can have the builder estimate based on what we want. I like clean lines and want the house to feel warm but not dark and I want a variety of wood and other natural material tones to bring the outside in.


Besides the request for overall feedback on my design, I’m asking these questions: What do you think is a good architectural style for this house? I need some persuasion that will help me narrow in on making good design decisions. Should the baseboard be painted or natural wood? Should the cabinets be painted or natural wood? What color countertops? What exterior paint colors will help blend into the forested surroundings? Anything else? Fire away with your comments and criticisms – I’m here to learn so we can make informed decisions and end up with a house we will enjoy forever.










Comments (41)

  • Mrs Pete
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Yes, it's simple, and it will fit nicely on your land.

    Thoughts on the house:

    - The secondary bedroom closets are quite small.

    - I hate divided bathrooms. The door creates another obstacle around which you must clean. A simple, 3-piece bathroom is better.

    - You're talking about a large, expensive switchback staircase ... but it's tucked away in a corner where no one will see it. If you're going to splurge on something like this, it should be "out in front" where it can be seen.

    - The table area looks kinda cramped. Are you dead-set on a large round table? A rectangle would utilize the available space more effectively. Consider a banquette bench too. This is a perfect spot for such a thing, and they're big space savers.

    - The living room looks like a decent size -- if you pull the furniture out around the edges; the arrangement you're showing makes the seating very cramped.

    - You have a bit of a bottleneck between the island and the corner. Another foot or two added to the back side of the living room would fix this.

    - I like the pantry. It would be an ideal spot for a swinging door.

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Mrs Pete, thanks for your feedback. Your comments make sense.

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  • just_janni
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    Agree with Mrs Pete on the secondary bedrooms - perhaps pull the entrance down and put larger closets on the walls that back to the bathroom and laundry to provide sound buffers, too. And open up that second bath - unless those walls are pony walls and have glass between the shower / vanity (which would open the space visually)


    My thoughts:

    • Generally - very well done. You've done a better job than a lot of stuff we see here and better than a vast majority of the factory plans that emphasize form over function.
    • Be careful of your toilet clearances / spacings. I THINK code required 18" from the centerline of the toilet to the wall. Master toilet area might be too tight.

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  • anj_p
    3 years ago

    Overall I think you have a good plan. I have a few minor suggestions.

    Confirm your stairway landing windows - it doesn't look like there's a step there, so the windows should align.

    I agree that the dining table space is more suited to rectangular. I also think a wall of windows would be great there - the window spacing looks a bit odd for the space. Not sure why there's a solid wall between windows there? Maybe that one window was meant to be a door to access the patio? If not, I would utilize that entire area for the table.

    Agree that the living space feels cramped. Will you have a TV in that room?

    You could do larger reach in closets on the shorter interior walls in the bedroom - which will buffer laundry and toilet noise for those rooms. Confirm you are able to vent your dryer and vent hood efficiently.

    IF you have guests semi-frequently, you may want to consider a powder room. Currently, guests will need to go into the private area of your home to use the second bath.

    In the kitchen, I'd square off the corner (both cabinet and counter). Confirm the space between the counter and island. It looks>4' now. Consider hidden pantry doors instead of a standard door for the pantry.

    I would make your hallways 4'.

    What's the big empty space in your master bedroom? It doesn't look like you can use it for much - you may want to consider moving the door for your bath so you have some wall space for dressers/sitting area. Not sure how wide the bath is, but it looks like it might be a bit narrow. You could make it a bit wider if you plan on using the bathroom at the same time. I would shift the windows in the master a bit to the left so you have space for a night stand in that corner.

    Good luck!



  • apple_pie_order
    3 years ago

    Where are the load bearing walls? Has a structural engineer been involved?

  • chicagoans
    3 years ago

    (not a pro) Great comments above and I like the repositioning of the front door as per bootybum - that seems like a gracious and pleasant entrance in which you walk in to a nice space with a choice of heading to kitchen, DR, or living room. In that version I'd rotate the island so the long side is facing the cooktop, seating on the LR side, prep sink across from fridge. And flatten out the lower right corner of the cabinetry.

  • AnnKH
    3 years ago

    There is no closet near the porch. I assume you use raincoats and umbrellas, but there is no place to put them.


    Flip the toilet and tub in the second bath, so the toilet isn't on the bedroom wall.


  • cpartist
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Here's what I'd do with the kitchen/living area.

    I switched the kitchen to the left side like booty did. This way you don't walk through your kitchen from the front entry to get to the living room and when you enter, you look ahead to the windows and dining are or look right into the living room.

    Your kitchen wasn't functional with those small cabinets and those angled walls. Plus a sink on the island facing a sink on the perimeter doesn't help. The idea is you take food out of the fridge, bring it to the prep sink (the sink on the island) wash the stuff, prep next to the sink and bring it to the cooktop. Your cleanup sink area becomes a separate zone.

    The dishwasher should always go on the outside.

    The pantry now can have a pocket door to close it off.

    What I still don't like is a few things.

    First do you need a 7' tub area? Do you take more baths than showers?

    Don't like that the bathroom is on the corner with lots of natural light and the bedroom only has windows on one wall. Maybe if you change the staircase somehow, you can flip the bathroom and the master.

    Also don't like that the toilet is up against the bedroom wall. Do you really want to hear those middle of the night flushes?

    You only have 4'9" of hanging space for clothing on each side? That is quite skimpy. Do yourself a favor and mark off that amount and then hang your clothes and see if they will all fit.

    Don't like that the toilet in the hall bath also is up against the bedroom. Flip the two. Flushes are always louder than some water running.

    Also agree about no need for a second room there.

    Agree about a rectangular table being a better choice.

    If children are in those two bedrooms, you'll need larger closets too. If not, then they are quite adequate.

    If you do keep the staircase as a switchback, I would do one central window on the landing. Not two. Looks strange with two.



  • jslazart
    3 years ago

    I agree with what others have said. I'm not clever enough to figure out how to shift the extra space in the master to becoming bigger closets in the spare bedrooms. Here I took booty bums' changes, messed a little with the kitchen, straightened the awkward kink in the wall between the living space and the master, and messed with the guest bathroom a bit:

    Both bathrooms still look a little cramped to me (the toilet area in the master and the walking space in the guest--but I can't read the dimensions, so it might be fine). And if you need that second access to the laundry (I image there's a reason it's there), the kitchen could be shifted back. Whatever you decide, I recommend putting it up in the kitchens forum for more specific feedback before you finalize the cabinet order.

    As to styles, I think you have to gather your own inspiration pictures for that. Gorgeous setting.

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I can't disagree that the bedroom closets are small. But in ten years when the kids have moved out, what are those rooms going to be used for? Probably multi purpose guest rooms used as a craft/art or office space. No reason to dedicate a lot of space for closets for that short period of time - dressers can provide space for the kids clothes until not needed anymore.


    So maybe I should incorporate the same long-term thinking into the bathroom. The thought was to divide it so the kids could be in there at the same time and still have some privacy. But this will be at the expense of making the space feel cramped permanently. I'm going to re think that dividing wall/door.


    The master bedroom has an 8'x8' clear space at the foot of the bed as a sacred yoga space and we're not going to be able to give that up. It's a good spot to close the door and have some privacy and get away from all other activity going on in the house. We will be able to look out toward the mountains through that big window on the east wall. I was thinking that the master bed would get plenty of light since light will come through the bathroom door. I positioned the bathroom door so when sitting in the bed, you will look out that big window next to the bathtub. We take lots of baths, especially my wife, so the tub location and size was a major design decision. Who wouldn't want to look out into a fern filled forest while sitting on the toilet? I'm not too worried about the toilet location in the master bath. It will be a seat with a view. Who flushes at night anyway?


    The foyer will have a bench and coat hooks to the left of the entrance door. The laundry room will also serve as a mudroom. It's critical to me to have a mudroom next to the entry as we often come in from the garden or back from hikes wet and muddy. We don't wear shoes in the house either so we will park our shoes there too. For our style of living I can't imagine entering the house directly into the kitchen or livingroom - where would the dirt end up? The other design feature of the foyer is that upon entry by guests, my hope is that your attention will be directed straight ahead towards the large window on the left side of the dining area where there will, at times, be a view of the mountains ahead. Then upon walking down the hallway and turning right you enter the space where others will be gathered for greetings. Maybe this is just a romantic idea but it works in my mind.


    Although, I'm pretty set on the general layout of the kitchen as it is because of how I envision the foyer being used, I'll need to think more about the arrangement of the dishwasher and secondary sink as pointed out by cpartist. And what about that bottle neck that's been pointed out? Maybe round off that corner of the island? Or is it really not too narrow?


    I'm a little stuck on the round table. It will have a large lazy suzan in the center. Round is just so much more communal. Maybe it's just that the house I grew up in had this type of table handmade by my father. To the left of the dining area will be a piano in that bump-out. I wanted a little space between the two "areas". Maybe a maple slab bench will go up against that short section of wall between the windows.


    I need to take into consideration of the furniture layout in the living room so it won't be cramped. We won't have a TV in the livingroom - the TV will be up in the bonus room. I was also considering built in book shelves below the livingroom windows so that complicates pushing the furniture outward. Any other ideas here?


    Someone mentioned the stairway windows being odd and I can't really disagree. But that side of the house won't be seen from the outside very often. The purpose of the windows being at different levels was so when you walk down the hallway towards the stairs, the window is centered on that first flight and is low enough to bring in light and a view of the hemlock trees on that side of the house. You will be able to see it from the living room and will help make the house feel bigger. The other window is raised so when coming down the upper flight of stairs, you get a similar intimate view of the forest.


    I like the idea of dark gray paint on the exterior and going with natural baseboards to start out with and then painting them later if we want. We will have lots of alder to mill up for baseboard material.


    So far I'm not convinced of changing all that much. The plans as they are already have an engineer stamp. I'm still open to more suggestions though. I'm enjoying the feedback. What about architecture or design style where does this house seem to fit?

  • David Cary
    3 years ago

    From a cost standpoint, I have to imagine sticking to a ranch would be better. Then there is the maintenance of a tall house over time. You are perhaps taking up 150 sqft just to access 500 sqft. And stairs aren't cheap, and then all that siding and roof for what is only 350 net sqft.

    Your hallways are another example of wasted space.

    I would guess you are too invested to make any changes. Doing something like this is a bit like being your own lawyer. But that being said, the plan is perfectly fine.

  • lmckuin
    3 years ago

    The kitchen/ entry/ pantry that cpartist did is definitely an improvement.

  • cpartist
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    By your comments I agree with David Cary that you are too invested in this plan as it is and you really only wanted confirmation from us. We showed you that it is not ideal to walk into a house and then have to walk through the kitchen/dining area to get to the public room , yet you just glossed over that.

    And every other suggestion except relatively minor ones you had an excuse for.

    What i find so interesting is that men are so less willing to make changes to their plans than the women are.

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    3 years ago

    IMO bonus rooms never make sense either have a purpose for a space or forget it 10 yrs is a very long time to kid that has no place to put their stuff. To use the wood from the property always sounds so great but to delay building while you wait for thr wood to be ready to use is along time maybe plan more on using it for a great dining table and those types of things. I am never a fan of having no architect involved in a new house too many things can go terribly wrong quickly . A kitchen designer can help make the most of a space and I dislike walk in pantries . You need a powder room unless you really don’t mind guests using your regular bathroom especially with kids. IMO aen enrtry always needs some kind of closet . I think it s great you actually thought about the placement on the property but where is the septic field how do handle the undulations of the actual lnad. Those are the things that an architect helps with and no designer can do all of that. I think you have done well but IMO I would still get an architect involved.

  • AnnKH
    3 years ago

    Kids tend to not use the bathroom at the same time. Our twins did everything together - except use the bathroom.


    What to do with more closet space? That made me laugh out loud! Out kids are grown and gone, but the closets in their rooms are full! Not because I'm a hoarder (I regularly purge stuff I don't need), but is we got older, our interests expanded - as did our ability to afford stuff that goes with them! I have half a closet that I reconfigured so I could hang our down sleeping bags - all 8 of them (the kids are gone, but some of their camping gear remains). The rest of that closet has shelves for hunting, skiing, and camping gear. Now there's only one spare bedroom closet, which we use for out of season clothes, and dress clothes we wear infrequently.


    I imagine having the plans you created criticized feels like a personal attack. That's a huge advantage to using an architect - when you ask for advice on architect plans, it's their work being criticized, not your own. Please keep in mind that the folks here simply want you to have the best house that you can have.

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I posted this so I could hear those constructive criticisms and I'm not feeling personally attacked. I'm listening to all of your suggestions and taking it all in. I'm willing to go back to the drawing board and actually that's partly why I'm here - to see if the extra expense is justified. We are not planning to build for another 7 months so we have time.

    I disagree that I'm glossing over the suggestion to enter the house into the livingroom. I'm explaining what our style of living is. If we used your suggestion on changing the layout of the kitchen and entry, where would we drop the muddy boots and wet rain coats? We would have to walk through the entire house to get to the laundry/mud room. I get that the long hallway entrance is not ideal for the public but we're building the house for us - not for the pleasure of guests - and they won't get a powder room.

    I'm convinced that dividing the bathroom is the wrong choice, so that's one thing to change.

    Doesn't the laundry room serve as a closet at the entry, Patricia? I do think getting a designer involved with the kitchen is a great idea. Is now the time to do that? Can a kitchen designer help with a lighting plan in that space too?

    It's a good point that David Cary raises that the Bonus room and stairs is not a very efficient use of space. Hmm...I'll need to think on that more but that space would need to go somewhere else and that would likely change the entire plan.

    If we extended the hallway for bigger closets in the bedroom on the wall shared with the bathroom and laundry room, we would lose that square footage to hallway. Do you think that would be wise? Are there other options that wouldn't require making the hallway longer? Maybe a second small closet in the corner?

    The purpose of the bonus room is as a TV/play room, guest room and office. I think we will use that space a lot.

    The septic is shown on the site plan and we have a permit for it already.

    My friend has a saw mill and he will kiln dry it over the next 3 months. I think it will be rewarding to have the wood used in the house. The maple has figure and will make great window sills, benches, and a dining table. Any thoughts on doing Accent walls with some of the wood?

  • anj_p
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    This is how you make bigger closets in the kids rooms.



    Or if you want, keep one closet on the wall between rooms and one as I've shown. Or move one door to the end of the hall, making that bedroom bigger and giving it a very large closet.

    RE: your table, just consider that you need about 3' min space between a table & obstruction for people to be able to walk behind a chair. I think the table size you've drawn is a bit large for that space and you'll encroach on the walkway between the island & dining table. If it will be mostly the 4 of you on a regular basis, consider doing a smaller table that can expand to oblong for larger gatherings when they occur.

  • littlebug zone 5 Missouri
    3 years ago

    Good luck with your house! You have thought a lot of things through.

    Is that a wood burning stove in the living area? Have you lived with a stove inside your house before? I have. It’s hard to tell - is there a door very close through which to deliver wood and to dispose of ashes? If there isn’t - if those are windows instead - I think you will live to regret it. I was young when we had a wood burner in our living room, across the room from an exterior door, and it taught me a lesson I won’t forget: NEVER AGAIN. Dirty, dirty, dirty.

    I’ll have to agree with the majority that I wouldn’t want my front door opening right into my kitchen.

  • doods
    3 years ago

    following

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    anj_p, the table will be about 5' diameter and only occasionally will we squeeze in 8 chairs, most time it will be just four. It's a little tight, I agree, but I think we can make it work. I like your closet suggestion and we could add this without having to have the engineer restamp the plans.

    littlebug, there is a door to the deck and that is on the opposite side of the room. I've thought a lot about wood and ash toting and agree it would be nice to have a closer way to access the wood stove. I grew up in a passive solar house on the east coast that only had wood heat and have spent a lot of time hauling wood. In an earlier version of my layout, I had a door on that south wall with the vault ceiling but it ruined the symmetry of that wall of windows. I also initially had a door to the front porch where the pantry is but I prefer to have that space used for storage. I'm going to see if the builder can put in some sort of access panel below the window that is on the same wall as the woodstove but I'm not sure if that's practicable. We will have a heat pump with ductless mini splits as our primary heat source. The woodstove will be secondary heat and where we live we loose power often and sometimes it will be out for three to five days if we get a bad storm.

    If you look at the floor plan at the very top of this thread, you will see that the entry is not directly into the kitchen. I have an entry hallway. Others here have suggested that the entry door go right into the kitchen/livingroom.

  • RNmomof2 zone 5
    3 years ago

    If you use your plan as originally drawn, what about spinning the island 90 degrees? This blocks the kitchen view from the living area and gives a nicer look from there. It orients the kitchen to facing the living room versus facing the table.

  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    I posted this so I could hear those constructive criticisms and I'm not feeling personally attacked. I'm listening to all of your suggestions and taking it all in.

    I apologize if that's how it felt. We have so many people who come onto these forums and only want to be patted on the back for their "fabulous" plans. (Trust me, 99% of the time there is nothing fabulous about them.) And when we make suggestions how to improve the flow of the house, kitchen, etc, they hone in on one person suggesting moving the door swinging open from left to right and ignore all the other advice. That is what it felt like you're doing.

    I'm willing to go back to the drawing board and actually that's partly why I'm here - to see if the extra expense is justified. We are not planning to build for another 7 months so we have time.

    It is always a heck of a lot cheaper to get it right on paper than to have to make changes once you start building. I know this for a fact. We were actually already in permitting and both DH and I kept feeling that the house wasn't right. Including the fact that I was ignoring best practices for passive solar heating/cooling and had my backyard facing west. We pulled the plans out of permitting, went back to the drawing board, turned the house so the back faced south (we were on a corner lot so we were able to do that), and redesigned everything that was not right. We have been in the house 2 years now and I am so glad we did what we did. We have a house that flows beautifully and works well in almost every way.

    I disagree that I'm glossing over the suggestion to enter the house into the livingroom. I'm explaining what our style of living is. If we used your suggestion on changing the layout of the kitchen and entry, where would we drop the muddy boots and wet rain coats? We would have to walk through the entire house to get to the laundry/mud room.

    So instead what about flipping the kitchen with the dining area? That will then allow the kitchen to utilize the back of the house, while the dining room is the first thing you see when you enter. Much more pleasant. Even for you as you enter. Plus, the advantage is then you have a view of the back.

    If you have not already read the book The Not So Big House by Sarah Susanka, I highly recommend it.

    I get that the long hallway entrance is not ideal for the public but we're building the house for us - not for the pleasure of guests - and they won't get a powder room.

    Of course not for the guests but don't you want to feel special when you enter your house? Life is not only about the utilitarian spaces but those special spaces that help make a house a home. How do you want to FEEL when you walk into your house?

    As long as you're ok with guests using the bathroom in your private spaces. Sometimes that's the only choice.

    Doesn't the laundry room serve as a closet at the entry, Patricia?

    It does, but it's also a bit far from the entry. Think of walking through the hallway with your muddy boots, coats, umbrellas, etc to get to the mudroom. And do you really want all that dirty stuff in the same place you're doing laundry that will be clean when taken out of the machines?

    I do think getting a designer involved with the kitchen is a great idea. Is now the time to do that? Can a kitchen designer help with a lighting plan in that space too?

    Yes you should have it all planned out BEFORE you get your plans finalized. Get everything nailed down now and there will be less cost surprises later.

    My friend has a saw mill and he will kiln dry it over the next 3 months. I think it will be rewarding to have the wood used in the house. The maple has figure and will make great window sills, benches, and a dining table. Any thoughts on doing Accent walls with some of the wood?

    Depending on the style of the actual house it could be quite beautiful to use the wood on an accent wall.

    anj_p, the table will be about 5' diameter and only occasionally will we squeeze in 8 chairs, most time it will be just four. It's a little tight, I agree, but I think we can make it work.

    It's a lot tight. From the edge of the table to a wall should be no less than 3'.

    I like your closet suggestion and we could add this without having to have the engineer restamp the plans.

    Again even if you have to restamp the plans, it's sometimes cheaper in the long run to have a house that lives well.

    littlebug, there is a door to the deck and that is on the opposite side of the room. I've thought a lot about wood and ash toting and agree it would be nice to have a closer way to access the wood stove. I grew up in a passive solar house on the east coast that only had wood heat and have spent a lot of time hauling wood. In an earlier version of my layout, I had a door on that south wall with the vault ceiling but it ruined the symmetry of that wall of windows.

    What about turning the two middle windows on that wall into either french doors or a slider? When designing a house, things like symmetry and good design have to also work with best flow and practices to make it easier for those living in the house.


    Gabe Cascadia thanked cpartist
  • caligirl5
    3 years ago

    I'll play devil's advocate on the divided bathroom. I live alone in a small house with 1 divided bathroom. It has a pocket door which is open 99% of the time, and there's nothing to clean around. It does get used when I have close family staying over so 1 person doesn't tie up the only bathroom. For me there wasn't a downside to the divided bathroom and getting some flexibility.

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Based on the feedback some of you provided about the entry and cramped dining room, I did some rearranging. Please tell me if you think it's an improvement.



  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    Kitchen layout still needs work, but it's definitely an improvement.

    In the kid's bath, flip toilet with tub so that when toilet is flushed in middle of the night it doesn't wake the occupant of the bed.

    In the master, I would still try and try and flip master bedroom with master bath. This way you'll get windows on two walls and by not being up against the kitchen, it will provide extra sound insulation between the kitchen and the bedroom.

  • suezbell
    3 years ago

    Haven't read all the comments. My first thought is about porches and roofline. You will be better able to enjoy your great views, especially in moderate spring and fall weather, if you have porches deep enough to set chairs and/or benches against the wall and still be able walk to comfortably walk past them. If the kind of seats you are going to choose have splayed legs, you'll want a deeper porch.


    In the Pacific NW where you're likely to have snow; and, if so, you might need at least one large porch so you can easily get out of the house without having snowdrift against your door and one on each side would be a good idea in case the wind from one direction fills one porch with snow.


    You could also get more room upstairs with a Gambrel roof -- one that uses a standard roof over the house but adds steeper roof slopes over both front and back full width porches.


    If you add a full width 6' (or 8') deep porch front and back and then, after adding a pony wall height upstairs exterior wall, you could still use the standard roof line for the roof over the actual house ( with a left right center ridge ) but then add a steep roof from that upstairs exterior pony wall to porch posts (front and back) that are tall enough to keep your porch ceiling at or above the downstairs ceiling height.


    As someone that has decks on three sides of the house and trees all around, I can tell you a few things you might not realize.

    Putting a deck low to the ground is not a good idea. Moisture and snakes and smelly possums as well as bugs like that area much to well. A ground patio by a porch is a better way to go.

    If your deck boards bow at all, the moisture on them can be expected to freeze and, in addition to being slippery, will adversely impact any finish you try to put on the deck.

    Trees don't shed just leaves and don't just shed stuff only in the fall. They slough off other woodsy stuff year round ... EVERY DAY, including bug and bird poo. Some smaller items (in my case oak blooms and tiny not fully formed acorns) get between the deck boards and will not sweep off. They can hold moisture on the floor joists exposed between the deck boards. That can rot the primary supports for the deck. Even if your trees are not directly over your deck, light stuff blows onto porch or deck. If at all possible, a concrete floor porch is a better way to go and a mostly smooth floor porch will be easier to sweep than one with "grout" ruts between bricks or stones.


  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    Some other things. You still have the mudroom far from the entrance.

    If you decide to keep master as is, do you really want toilet up against your bedroom wall? I wouldn't!

    Also double check code for stairs. For some reason I have a memory that minimum width for a stair tread is 42". I may be wrong.

    Here is another suggestion for the kitchen layout.

    I moved cooktop to wall where you had fridge. Much nicer to see a cooktop first thing than the side of a fridge. Plus best kitchen practice has us taking food from fridge, bringing it to sink to wash, prepping between sink and stove and then cooking at stove without having to cross zones.

    Added one window so there are now five on back wall.

    On right wall, added a glass door out to the deck. Now you will have another way to get to the back deck without having to carry food and drinks into living room area.

    Island is 48" from perimeter cabinets now.

    Personally I'd ditch the sink on the island and get a work station big sink on the perimeter. Two people can work at one of the larger work station sinks at one time if needed and your island then becomes a place to do buffet style or set up for baking.

  • Beth Gazley
    3 years ago

    Not a pro but did design my house, so.... I disagree on moving the kitchen. Practically, entering to kitchen to dump groceries makes a lot more sense than entering to living room. Kitchen in my house is first room you enter and boy, does that cut down on floor cleaning. I also disagree with other suggestions that you add a half bath. This is too small a house for 2.5 baths. What we did in ours is position the second Bath (serving Guest BRs) so that it was super accessible for visitors. I do like the suggestion by someone else to consider switching MBR and MB space, but only if you want the extra window space and light in your MBR. It is a place for sleeping, after all. nobody Has mentioned windows: try to do standard sizes and you will save a bucket of money. Last, I was surprised to hear you saying you were building in a few months and had not started logging and milling the trees. They take some time to dry. But sounds like you have a plan there, so good luck.

  • suezbell
    3 years ago

    As to your view:


    Is any part of your house and garage already built or is that house an inspiration picture?


    Could you avoid adding driveway, garage and parking to your best views by directing your driveway to the north side or corner without wrapping the driveway around three sides of the house?


    Can you add your garage to that north side/corner apart from the house but near enough to later add a covered breezeway between house and garage?


    If utility lines are already in place, could they be attached to a smaller utility building rather than the full garage? A small building that could also be used for a limited purpose such as yard tool and yard toy storage and/or potting shed? ... leaving any additional space in the garage for other tools and workshop space?


  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Now the kitchen will have the best views towards the mountains with a full wall of windows and the island seating will take advantage of the views. Access to the deck is now directly from the kitchen and I can put the barbecue right outside. I got rid of the door to the deck in the livingroom and I'm thinking that the window next to the wood stove on the west wall could be a glass door instead to provide ingress for toting wood. Maybe it could be painted the same color as the siding so it doesn't beckon arriving guests. I stuck the piano in the living room since the piano nook is now where the fridge is - this gave some more space in the master walk-in. The entry hall is shorter but wider and still has a focal point through the kitchen window to the mountains and there is a built-in bench with shoe cubbies below and coat hooks above. Laundry room door is right around the corner for muddy things. I flipped everything in the bathroom so the toilet is not on the adjacent bedroom wall and I also removed the dividing wall in there so it feels like a larger space.




  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    You are definitely getting there. It's getting better and better.

    But now the kitchen layout is not best practice. When we cook we pull food out of the fridge, bring it to the sink to wash, wash at the sink, prep between stove and sink, and then bring food to stove to cook. The idea is that each of those is a separate zone and you don't want to cross zones. With the fridge on the end like you have it, you're crossing the cooking zone.

    Where are you located again?

    Also make sure your aisles between the perimeter counters and island are 4' to allow for more than one person cooking and/or cleaning in the kitchen at one time.

    Additionally when you enter the front door, your view is of the sink and fridge. Look at my version where the view is just the window looking out the back.

    Also your toilet in the master bath is still up against the bedroom wall.

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    While I agree that arranging the kitchen appliances with the fridge on the right hand side of counter, the sink in the middle of the windows, and the stove along the left hand wall looks fantastic and provides the right layout for work stations, I see two challenges with it: 1) It places the work stations far away from each other - the fridge about 20ft away from the stove, and 2) traffic flow through the door to the right of the fridge that provides access to the deck would be interrupted if someone were standing at the refrigerator with the door open. I've read that 9ft should be the longest distance between any work station and total of the three legs should be max of 23ft. Putting the stove in the island would make the work triangle much smaller but that offers it's own challenges...

  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    Gabe where exactly in the US is the house going to be built? I ask for a valid reason

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Whatcom County, WA. Bellingham is the closest city to us.

  • jslazart
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    A thought (could be done with or without a prep sink in the island):



    (I'm clearly not one to require a window in front of the sink, but also, if that door to the deck is glass, you could put a mirror over the sink and be able to look out onto the deck.)

  • PRO
    RappArchitecture
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I'm late to this thread and didn't have time to read all the comments, so I may be repeating things that have already been said.


    In general I think it's a pretty good plan, but I have a few thoughts:

    • My biggest criticism has to do with the master suite. I would strongly suggest flipping the bed and bath so that the master bedroom is in the corner and can have light coming from two directions (north and east). This would also allow the bedroom to be more remote and private from the main living spaces. Also, the walk-in closet appears to be pretty small.
    • I don't see a coat closet at the entry hall. In the PNW I think this would be almost required. Why not just create a 2-ft deep closet at the right side of the laundry room, open to the hall, and have the laundry accessed just from the bedroom hall.
    • The dining room table as drawn is squeezed into the corner and doesn't seem functional. There is also a lot of wasted space to the left of the table. A solution to both is to use a long rectangular table parallel to the back wall which could seat 8 people or even more with extensions. I'd also create a door from the dining area directly to the patio.
    • You haven't shown any, but I assume stools could be pulled up to the kitchen island for informal eating.
    • Where do you watch TV? I don't see any shown in the living space.


    Good luck with your project!

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    RappArchitecture - Thanks for commenting. I've made some changes to the layout since the original post. You can see the latest floor plan in my comment posted yesterday. I think the changes I've made address most of your comments. Take a look at the revised floor plan and let me know what you think. I'm still struggling with the kitchen layout and where the appliances should go.

    Other commenters have made similar suggestions to yours about the master suite but there's a few things keeping me from making changes to that space. One being that my wife especially loves taking baths and I located the bath tub to have a great view of the mountains to the east (foot end of the tub). The window along the north side of the tub offers views into the forest and is a very private part of our property so we won't need to draw the window shade. I aligned the door between the bath area and bed area to be centered with the bed and that window will be a focal point from the bed. We will get some light from that direction too. The space at the foot of the bed is reserved for an area that my wife can use when doing yoga and the big window looks towards our mountain view. Maybe we could have a small window up high next to the bed on the south wall for a little extra light that wouldn't intrude on privacy? Maybe we should also sound proof the wall at the head of the bed since it will share a wall with the kitchen?

    We will have the TV upstairs in the bonus room.

  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    I'm wondering if you could make your door from the kitchen a pocket slider. I have a pocket slider to my outdoors. In fact it's a four panel pocket slider and slides into an outdoor "pocket". This way you could have the fridge on that side. How wide again is that back wall of the kitchen?

    Even if you don't there's still plenty of room. Here's how to get around the 9' rule. You put a prep sink on the island and move the stove to the window wall. This way you're prepping (which is 70% of the time spent in the kitchen) facing family and guests, and cleanup which is only 10% of the time doesn't really need a window nowadays.

    I understand your wife loves to take baths but you're giving up the view, windows on two walls and cross ventilation in your bedroom for a bath time?

  • jslazart
    3 years ago

    I'm going to dissent on the master. As set up, there's a view from the bed (and the yoga mat) to the window over the tub. Assuming at least one window in the bathroom is operable (I would hope so--being able to open the window by the tub is nice when there is privacy) there should be at least some cross-breeze potential.

  • Gabe Cascadia
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Here's my latest version with additional changes to the entry and dining areas. The biggest challenge is the placement of kitchen appliances. We dont want to obstruct the views through the kitchen windows with a range hood.

    No changes to the master - I guess we're primitive in that we prefer to sleep in a cave and bathe in the airy light.