It worked!

You will not know for several weeks whether it worked. I myself would have suggested a memorial dinner next year when a vaccine would be presumably available rather than a gathering now.

Great solution.

Hopefully sufficient other measures were taken by the persons attending the dinner. Innovative solution!

This has been a hard week. A family I know lost a husband and father to suicide. The family has decided to forgo the funeral for now, but I wouldn't have held it against them if they had decided to have one anyway. Some people need the funeral. It's not my place to tell others how to grieve.

It sounds to me that Martha and crew handled the dinner in a respectful and appropriate manner. I'm sure the family appreciated the effort. The dinner itself probably had a low chance of transmission of Covid if anyone in the group even had it.

That sounds like a smart way to protect you and the other volunteers, but I wonder about the mourners eating together and spending time in an enclosed space and probably staying a while to visit. If someone happens to be asymptotic with COVID, the spread can be far and wide. As much as we want to accommodate families dealing with a death in the family, I think everyone needs to realize nothing is normal anymore and adjust the mourning to public health needs today. I realize this wasn't your decision, Martha. I think ministers/priests need to be willing to change normal practices for the greater good. This surely won't last forever.

Not being privy to the next of kin, pastor conversation, I do not know if he tried to dissuade them and they wouldn't budge about a funeral dinner or if it was his suggestion of they wanted it and he just caved.

When I said it "worked", I meant that we were able to serve them a dinner. That part did work.

I told my husband this morning that we would know in a week or so if any COVID came from having a "real" funeral. Because I felt the same way Lizbeth -- because That was most of our congregations concern -- we did not know from where they were coming or what they had done as far as being out and about before they came and whether they would wear masks or not. And even if we weren't there, they could still get COVID from the funeral AT OUR CHURCH!

If it were I, I would not have a real funeral -- just an immediate family graveside. If we want a remembrance, we would do it later. But I guess some people are wanting "normal" but I don't think now is the time!

How many were served, Martha? If I understand our mandates correctly, wedding and funerals in this state can be held but with a max of 30 people. And no receptions allowed. I'm assuming that means the after service meal. Anyone I know of is having private family services and postponing any kind of gathering, notices typically reading something like 'celebration of life to take place at a later date when virus restrictions permit'. This goes all the way back to March ;o( A close friend had a nice lunch planned (anticipating many attending) to commemorate her mother, was to have taken place Apr 4. Still on 'hold'.

I too think that this was probably a gathering that could have been avoided. Having said that, I think you and the other members came up with a practical solution Martha, by providing meals that required minimal contact among the mourners, at least as far as helping themselves to the food.

If no one gets ill, and hopefully that's the case, y'all were lucky. It's not an indication or validation that good judgement was used because I don't think that's the case, no matter what the outcome.

All risks run a spectrum from lower to higher. Some risks are unavoidable, some are worth taking, many aren't. That's what the "risk vs reward" assessment is about and why it is sometimes appropriate to consider. We all have our own safety and risk assessments to make.

Wow, I'm surprised an inside dinner for who-knows-how-many people was allowed by your state/county. It was kind of you to do it, but I would have refused to take part. I take it this was an indoor dinner?

I'm sorry Adell, for the loss of your friend.

Martha, our church has been faced with this a few times since the covid concerns first started. Our group of ladies that handles a funeral meal have dropped off a meal at the residence of one of the family members. I believe the first time they took a prepared meal (bought). Now they are back to church members dropping off food at the church, then the committee delivers. They leave on the porch of the residence and do not go inside. The only interaction really is the committee, which consists of a mother and daughter and two other members who are already in (safe) contact. There may or may not be other members helping. They wear masks when packing up and delivering the food.

“The dinner itself probably had a low chance of transmission of Covid if anyone in the group even had it.”.

You should not make completely unsupported remarks like this unless you knew how big the room was, how many people were seated at a table and in what proximity to each other, over what length of time and what type of HVAC system the room has to promote air exchange. Along with the age, temperature, pulse ox levels and underlying conditions of each diner. In other words, your having an opinion on this is absurd.

Were people sitting across from each other eating? If so, that sounds risky. The Maine wedding has spread the virus to over 100.

A family member died this month (not the virus), sadly no events took place except her final arrangements. We hope next year.

Did I miss it? How many people (meals) were there?

Curious we did the opposite. No more having the "church ladies" bring in dessert and salads, all from the local grocery store. In stead of serving "family style" on each table, we went to buffet style. Gloved and masked people walking by very little chance of a transmission. Instead of long tables spanning the entire room we set tables that sat 4-6 around the room so all family units could just be with each other and not people one might not feel comfortable sitting that close to. We have to keep the crowd under 200 which has not been a problem. We have had around 10 funerals this summer and average just about 100 staying to eat. We have a school with a gym on our campus so plenty of room to spread out.

“The dinner itself probably had a low chance of transmission of Covid if anyone in the group even had it.”.

You should not make completely unsupported remarks like this unless you knew how big the room was, how many people were seated at a table and in what proximity to each other, over what length of time and what type of HVAC system the room has to promote air exchange. Along with the age, temperature, pulse ox levels and underlying conditions of each diner. In other words, your having an opinion on this is absurd.

Would it help you if I used the words like 'food' or 'plated meal' instead of 'dinner'? People get takeout from restaurants all the time. The way this was explained was as if this was basically a takeout of individually plated meals. I guess I could say “The plated meal itself probably had a low chance of transmission of Covid if anyone in the group even had it.”. I think Martha and her group handled the situation well. Martha and her people were not in contact with the funeral attendees and even if the attendees had Covid, Martha and her people were basically not in contact with the funeral attendees.

The funeral attendees made their own choices of how to handle the situation. Whether they ate distanced or not was on them.

IMO, Martha and her people handled the request well. I have no idea what the funeral attendees did. If they chose to take a higher risk, I wouldn't fault them either. Some people simply need that closure to help them in the grieving process.

I can not imagine attending a church dinner, even for a funeral, during the pandemic.

The wedding that Socks mentions above in Maine (my state) has cases rising every day, (on Thursday there were 87). A woman who did not attend, but who was visited by an attendee died of Covid-19 Here is an article from the Boston Globe on it.

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/08/28/covid-19-cases-maine-wedding-big-moose-inn

Today, the count is 123! https://www.cbsnews.com/news/123-coronavirus-cases-wedding-reception-millinocket-maine-big-moose-inn/

Morz -- I do not know how many were served. I do know how many meals were requested -- 50 -- but the lady delivering them based on the cars in the parking lot thought that if there would be 30 it would be a crowd -- she thought probably closer to 25. I do know that we set tables up spread out throughout the fellowship hall but we had no control over how many sat at each table (and I wasn't about to come in and police the matter that's for sure since I wasn't even willing to deliver the food). We (the church dinner committee) had no control over whether or not they wore masks and you definitely can't eat and wear a mask! We did make sure that they knew that whatever dinners were left that they could take them with them.

Maddielee, me either which is why I was floored at being asked to provide a dinner.

OMG -- My 3 dogs -- that's awful!

Unless the pastor owns the rights to the church I would have contacted as many church elders as I could. A suggestion to give to the pastor is for him/her to find a restaurant in the area that would be willing to break the law.

It truly is, Martha; there are people infected who are in law enforcement that are 242 miles from the Inn where all this occurred, and this from the article I have linked below - It also includes nine cases at Maplecrest Rehabilitation Center in Madison. This rehab center is 100 miles from the Inn.

https://www.pressherald.com/2020/08/28/outbreak-spreads-dramatically-in-york-county-jail/

https://wgme.com/news/coronavirus/millinocket-wedding-outbreak-spreads-to-123-covid-19-cases

"we had no control over how many sat at each table (and I wasn't about to come in and police the matter that's for sure since I wasn't even willing to deliver the food). We (the church dinner committee) had no control over whether or not they wore masks"

Why didn't the pastor, or church management if different, have the sense to think about helping do your deity's work, to look after the welfare of believers, by saying "No, that's not possible here".

I can't understand churches, of all places, that are so willing to expose people to the very real danger of serious illness and even death during this time. This is not directed at Martha, but all around my area churches have returned to inhouse worship, with "feel good" measures in place that strike me very much like that of the TSA (i.e., take off your shoes and nobody gets hurt.) In my opinion, this is an abysmal witness to the society at large. God knows (yep) that the church has turned off people in droves over these past decades, and now they're willing to send a message that somehow gathering is worth risking lives. I think that is NOT AT ALL what Jesus would have done, especially since he was pretty much all about caring for the most vulnerable.

adellabedella_usa "...some people need that closure..."

my dad just went through that. a family member died (not covid related) and my dad drove 5 hours to the funeral, and drove home after. everybody wore masks, stayed outside and was distanced, but he took the risk of hugging his sister. they felt like it was worth it because she's quite old and they're not sure if they'll ever see each other again. that story breaks my heart for a million different reasons.

so.... I get it.

Awful about that wedding in Maine. What a way to start married life, sharing responsibility for all those people getting sick. In retrospect, everyone there should have been repeating the vows, "in sickness and health, until death do we part."

A good friend's husband died in the spring and they postponed his memorial to July thinking the worse would be over. They ordered food, sent out the invites and then abruptly canceled. I told the friend right after his death, that any memorial they had I would not be attending. It just took the family a little longer to realize the severity of this virus. Now there will be no memorial at all.

I told the friend she made the right decision because a news story caught my eye of a 66-year-old woman who was in the hospital about to be put on a ventilator telling nurses she should not have had the service for her husband who died of COVID. Sadly an hour late she died too.

We have not yet had any kind of a service for my mother, who died of Covid on May 23rd. It is PAINFUL! It feels so disrespectful to her memory, it feels as if we don't have permission to fully grieve, sometimes I wonder if it truly happened.... And yet. There is no possible way we would endanger other lives to memorialize her. It will just have to wait.

My Mom passed last April. We were allowed 10 people graveside, where i spoke. We hope to hold a memorial service on the first anniversary of her death. I've heard similar from others.

Not certain if it is possible with so many distant from where their loved ones are buried, interred, scattered but perhaps a visit to the place will help individuals feel better about not having the normal services. But remember every time you think of a loved one who has died you should not think of them with grief but with love. The grief is for your lost not theirs.

Ida, I have mixed feelings about churches being open. Our church closed for weeks and once the reopening phase started, we opened for Sunday AM service only, with no nursery, children's church, etc. Many precautions were taken. However, many apparently felt the need to congregate on the front porch and parking lot afterwards. Then our little area started seeing more cases and we had a few cases within the church, so we closed again. We are starting back again tomorrow. i'm not sure with schools now open, if it really matters??? I keep telling my husband I know things have to open back up, children have to go to school, people have to get back to work, etc. Our university opened last week. All schools in the area are now open. So, I think people now just have to make the decision whether they will attend, or not. Making whatever decision they feel best about. The church is still set up for social distancing (every other pew marked off) and disinfected, etc. We do not feel that we want to be within a group yet, so we will continue to stream the service.

True story that recently happened in the next town over, about ten miles away. There was a funeral and when it was over many people left with Covid. In my rural state, 1100 people tested positive for Covid in the last 24 hours. That's huge.

Testing positive...is a hassle and 10 days of the worst flu you have ever had but for the vast majority that is all it means!! Lets not over dramatize. We have had no issues with our Church being open. To blame their opening on people's choices before or after is not fair. Physical space, masks on, 10 minutes of visiting or less, most people most of the time will be fine. I doubt very much these guidelines were followed THAT is the problem--not if churches should be open or not.

Very good chart (and article) about safety during COVID activities:

https://www.businessinsider.com/6-foot-distancing-rule-is-outdated-oxford-mit-new-system-2020-8?amp

10 days of the worst flu you have ever had but for the vast majority that is all it means!! Lets not over dramatize.

All those people who die. All that are left with permanent injury. Plus the possibility of reinfection, and other possibilities we don't even know of yet because we are still learning. Avoiding Covid is not over dramatizing.

There have been a large number of deaths in my circle the last 3 months-- more than 10 and most of them not covid related.

• My father died in May-- we had a small mass and graveside service in late June with only immediate family, masks worn. My aunt (dad's' sister), uncle and cousins flew in from a then hotspot-- via private plane, all wore masks and social distanced no hugs. They flew in and out. No meals. No visiting other than in the parking lot at a distance of more than 10'. We have a tentative plan to have a large memorial service with the community next summer.
• Today my mother leaves the house we/she has lived in for 50 yr. It's literally the 50th anniversary of our move in. We will gather-- just siblings and mom-- for a last celebration on the very large porch where we have gathered frequently over the years. I am sure I will hug mom and siblings-- i can't imagine not. I am very isolated and not going out at all for weeks at a time-- siblings moderately so. One sister is a teacher and back in school on a limited schedule. I expect she will be maintaining distance and not hugging.
• My aunt died in July, there will be a zoom memorial service next weekend.

SO many of us have lost parents and loved ones. It is an unusual kind of heartbreak in these times -- but it is what it is. We need to make wise and healthy decisions. Healthy for our physical and mental well being.

I've said it before and I'll say it again ... Covid doesn't care what you think about it.

Lest anyone insist on continuing to spread disinformation as to its seriousness, take another look at these faces. Start telling the truth, for the sake of honoring these very real lives now gone.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/faces-coronavirus-pandemic-remembering-died/story?id=69932880

People are willing to attend church because they are seeking comfort, sameness. Churches are willing to open—at least in part—so the plate can be passed.

The plate can be passed virtually. Ours is, and the church continues to be sustained by online giving.

“The funeral attendees made their own choices of how to handle the situation. Whether they ate distanced or not was on them.”

No, whether or not they are there and exposed is “on” the church / pastor / hospitality committee that chose to give them a place and opportunity. This is exactly why the rules are in place. You still don’t understand. And the pastor should be fired.

My MIL passed away on Mother’s Day. Graveside service of about 20 people, only six chairs very far apart from each other under the tent, no wake or reception. This is how people die during a pandemic. You don’t just pretend it doesn’t exist and have a funeral or wedding or graduation party because you “need” it that then sickens and kills others. Seriously, what is wrong with people that they don’t understand this?

I have to agree with Kswl. The "choices" that people make are carried to others who made no such "choices" of their own, sometimes with dire effects.

"Many precautions were taken. However, many apparently felt the need to congregate on the front porch and parking lot afterwards."

Highlighted because IMO this is exactly the root of the problem--people are people. We are social creatures and given the opportunity to gather it is absolutely impossible to prevent folks from doing what we all are hardwired to do: congregate.

Witness also the comments in this topic about 'safe' gatherings in which people include that they had to hug their mother/brother/sister etc....my own mantra has become this: it's not a social network, it's a virus. Period.

Since I believe i was the only one to note hugging family members, I will respond.... I don't make excuses nor am i encouraging others. I am (and have been since my father's death) honest about the decisions i have made. Since I am fully isolated otherwise, my decisions affect only myself and my family.

I hear you all speak about how socially limited you are.. and while i can sympathize, i note that you are able to get out. You do go to the library or the store.. you go walking (socially distanced) with friends, you gather (socially distanced) in backyards. I have none of that because I do not drive and will not take uber OR lean on family/friends to get around. I have everything I need delivered.. and the only gatherings I have attended were surrounding my father's death and the need to move my elderly mother out of her house. I have declined all other funerals, graduation parties and social invitations. Again, I won't give excuses. I simply share my circumstances and decisions.

No, i take that back.. i will provide one defense: the covid rate in my area has steeply declined since May. Our numbers are no where near those in FL, GA, CA, TX etc. I think decisions need to take the rates into account.

I have none of that because I do not drive and will not take uber OR lean on family/friends to get around. I have everything I need delivered..

I think there are a bunch who do that. I do. It is difficult and kudos to you for making that extra effort.

I think decisions need to take the rates into account.

I think that if your one time behavior contributes to a death, the dead person 's family isn't going to see it that way.

All of us are taking *some* risk. I think it is helpful to share decision-making. And often, such as in Funky's case, there is an entire picture to consider. I heard someone say virus risk is like calories. Try to limit your risk, and if you want to take risk in one area, limit it in another. I think that is a good way to look at it once we appreciate that all of us will take some risk.

For the last six months: We all wear masks and use hand sanitizer liberally when we are out. None of us go to jobs or school. We have had no cleaning people or workers inside the home. We were tested in July. Those are our primary precautions.

Our primary risk-taking? Starting maybe 4-6 weeks ago ...My children have friend bubbles with 1-2 friends. They get together outdoors only. We have had a few socially distanced outdoor dinner parties. And I no longer shop like I am provisioning the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria.

“And I no longer shop like I am provisioning the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria.”

Lol!

I don't see being isolated as extra effort-- it's my only option. Hard or not, it is what it is.

I will say that I feel VERY lucky that I have a job that allow me to WFH -- I don't expect to be in the office before next spring (and very possibly later). I also feel extra lucky that until this week, all of my siblings have had the same benefits of working at home. SO many families have been forced to work outside the home-- some at great risk. And my heart truly breaks for those who are/have been out of work.

Going over to the church and picking up a meal is not that risky. Mingling with other folks at a funeral is. And yet, how important is community support when you have lost a loved one . . . Our schools are delivering meals to the needy with curbside pick up. That is working, but the personal contact element of comfort is missing. But there may be ways to work around that as well. Many people I know are doing graveside services where small groups visit with the grieving and can maintain social distancing. That's actually what cemeteries were designed to be, places where people could meet outdoors and grieve together. Families used to do picnics there, that's why old cemeteries are landscaped and nice like parks . . . Our church has a small memory garden with benches and ashes of congregants in vaults under the ground.

I think what MS is saying is that they managed to figure out how to do the food service part of a funeral. The gathering may have been different . . . I've been struggling these past months with two friends having experienced significant losses, one a mother who died of old age, and another lost a husband to cancer. And yet I haven't been able to visit either of them. My one friend seems to not want much sympathy, isn't sharing on social media and when I called her was very perfunctory. My other friend has created a social media site just for sharing with close friends. It's still going to be a tough road for her. I called her but she isn't taking calls. So each family has to work out the best solutions that work for them . . . I think big funeral gatherings were nice and all, but having lost my mother suddenly, the long haul of grieving was better served for me by individuals who brought food to the house and stayed for short condolence visits, or helped with other "end of life" tasks. In the Jewish tradition, groups visit home of the grieving for prayers. We will find ways to manage these connections if we really want to. I think churches can open up again if they organize themselves for social distancing, limiting the size of the gatherings, deal with ventilation issues, and require masks and have hand sanitizing stations. This is how they are doing press conferences . . . but the leadership has to be there . . . our church could have rotating groups gather for bible study and prayer, that's how the early church got started and spread. No sense in the church sitting empty six days out of the week for just one big show on Sunday, does not need to be that way . . .