I think that I DID run the car over the V. opulus - great way to divide the plant! One of mine was a pup off an established shrub that had gotten in the way of a hose bibb and I had someone dig it out and he didn't know what to do with it so he left it sitting off the driveway (on soil) and about six months later when I got around to moving it to the compost pile, it had rooted in! You're dead right about zonal imbalances (like hormonal imbalances?) and no one should be shipping plants around once it warms up. I just explained our planting timing by way of illustration because it is so different than the majority of the country, and even zone 9 doesn't really explain what it's like here because we have so much ocean influence. We run in the high 70's/low 80's in summer with ocean breeze so your'e right, we don't have temps in the 90s unless it is a heat wave. So the best way to describe our weather is 'mild', which really doesn't describe any of the weather in z5,6,7,etc. We'll hope that PF finds the V. o. r. and yes, John, your wife will just love those flowers. They are pretty gorgeous when they first come out and they are that lovely shade of lime green. All this rapture about such a weedy shrub, but isn't it nice that we can find love in all the wrong places?

Wish I had a better pic of when it filled out. This was early in the spring. The fence is on the west side of my yard, the trunk on the left is a 40 foot Austrian Pine (shading from the south), the trunks you see on the other side of the fence are part of a line-up of four 50 foot or so Norway Spruce (shading from the west) and there are other plants shading it somewhat from the the east, so the area is quite shaded. The plant is about 5 feet tall but has had it's share of being rabbit pruned until I started remembering to put my "shields up" in the fall. Hope this helps. tj

Connie, Sorry to be so slow posting. I have not had a chance to be on the computer for very long. I received my seeds on Wednesday. Thank you for the great selection and for hosting this swap. Thanks also to everyone that participated. I can't wait to get the seeds planted. Ginger

In Mass, you're going to want to choose BS resistant varieties and/or spray. Most of my shrubs that I regard as attractive and healthy have not been great repeat bloomers. Cinco de Mayo is almost never without blooms for me and has a wonderful shape and pretty foliage, but black spots like heck if not sprayed. New in my garden this year, and my most attractive new shrub, has been Lady of Shallot. It has a graceful branches, lovely foliage, flowered all summer with blooms that hold their color and shape. I expect it will get big though. Another 1st year Austin, Munstead Wood, is smaller and I hope it will stay so. IMO the shrub is not as pretty, bloom not as prolific, but I'd still rate it highly. My Austins have all gotten big, zone 5 has been no deterrent to that tendency. I had Graham Thomas planted in my front yard and had to move him because he wanted to be 10' tall. You mentioned Caramella being zone 6B, but I'd give that another look. On HMF, it's listed at zone 6B by default, but check out the Gardens tab and you'll discover people growing it in cold locations. I've chosen Caramella for 2014. Palatine rates it as zone 5, also Pickering sells it. They are both reliable resources for cold zone roses, also High Country if you're looking for own-root. Kordes has a good reputation for producing disease resistant roses and they have many cold hardy choices. Oh, and I've just ordered Ascot from Palatine thanks to Diane's frequent praise, crossing my fingers for cold hardiness!