What does your agreement say?

That if we choose not to go with him we get any money back minus his $2500 fee and any costs that they have incurred such as architect fees, permits, etc. But the plans are not usable and he is so absurdly over budget that I feel like he is responsible for this situation.

I am going to continue to work with him as long as he is willing to complete the house within our budget.

Laura:

I can tell you what's going on. Your contractor is at or beyond his capacity. He doesn't want your job, but he'll disappoint someone else because he's making big money on yours if he gets it.

That is what I was thinking too. If we get upset and quit him he can keep our money. That is why I decided to stay and have him try to fulfill his commitment. But can I get my money back if he can't get the job done for what we wanted to spend?

"The job." Nobody at this point knows what "the job" is.

I would move on.

The job is a whole house renovation for $350K-$400K based on plans that the contractor developed with an architect as I stated. You would walk away from $25,000 and receive nothing for all that money?

I’d hire a new architect, make up new plans, and get bids.

Construction costs are very high now (where I live...very high), but... this guy doesn’t have your back, and you need someone who is oriented toward helping you, and it sounds like he’s not that person.

We had a very similar experience. Don't know if you will have better luck than we did. We paid a retainer with an architect. He had his artistic vision I guess and did not listen when we told him his initial drawing is not what we want. We told him we did not need 8' gallery along the entire length of the house or the floating staircase. We just wanted a simple one story addition ( adding two bedrooms and two baths ). After some back and forth to see if we can salvage the relationship, he told us what we want is not possible and had his staff architect draw up a plan where we would need to walk thru one bedroom to get to the next one. To make a long story short, we ended our relationship and wanted our retainer back. He sicced his company's lawyers on us basically told us all of the retainer has been used and we owe him for additional work. We talked to our own lawyers and they basically said the contracts are always in favor of the architect and it would not be worth it to try to fight it as the likelihood of winning the case is low, so we ended up paying fees for nothing. We did not get a single usable document or plan.

Not what I want to hear. I think all of our money will go to his architect who was great at envisioning what we wanted, but very bad at measuring. I had to keep telling him his plans were not correct. He would do things like put doors in front of trees, windows that land on intersecting walls, or stairs that emptied out to open air on a second floor and then add more floor. I have email after email with his errors. I think he'll get all my money.

"You would walk away from $25,000 and receive nothing for all that money?"

Better than getting 250K into the project and figure out that your budget was not truly accurate and now you need to put in another 500K to finish the remodel.

"We talked to our own lawyers and they basically said the contracts are always in favor of the architect and it would not be worth it to try to fight it as the likelihood of winning the case is low, so we ended up paying fees for nothing. We did not get a single usable document or plan."

Thanks American Institute of Architects. That's what trade associations are for. Write boilerplate legal documents that are lopsided in your member's favor.

I know a lot of people rebuilding and in the process after the fires in California a couple years ago. You wouldn't believe the number who have had to switch architects. I know someone who is out $200,000 and had to switch architects before permitting. Even on this website, your issue, or issues like it, have come up again and again. People post a plan that looks dumb (to the seasoned architects on this website) and then the reality hits them that they have invested a lot of money that they won't see again. And others, like yours, where the design phase is not clicking and money is flowing out and you're getting nowhere. It hurts. Its hard. But it's time to switch.

I really don't want to talk about my personal situation, but suffice it to say, I've been where you are. I look at it like this. I have a big project that's going to cost a lot of money, emotions and time. That project isn't going away: it's going to happen. I need to focus my money, time and emotions on THAT, and make a PLEASANT experience about it.

I would be angry with the first architect/builder, and I'd negotiate for money back, but in the end analysis of contemplating lawyers and litigation and collection, do you want TWO projects sucking up your time, emotions and money?

The money is gone. It's sunk cost. You still have a project to build.

This is a design billing dispute & possibly a design scope issue so far. Did you ask them to design to your budget or to design as you directed? I see many design to what they wrongly believe is budget.

He asked you to scale back the project from what? The original budget could have been easily used up rehabbing the home from drywall to finish or less, unless you're in the CA Bay Area, where labor costs are double the central CA region.

For a rehab project in your budget range the plans usually wouldn't be that complex. Was an addition involved? Ceiling height increases? Windows, roofing, siding?

I did just have a build client wonder into a local remodeling showroom, thinking she was visiting a cabinet maker. $130K including closets & wall units for a home slightly larger. Add high end appliances, counters, plumbing, flooring and that remodeler would have used up your budget.

This is a second home. Is it in a vacation area? Maybe a full remodel is really at $1 mill and not possible at your desired budget. Building materials and labor are in demand and priced high at the moment. Have you considered selling and buying an existing house that better meets your needs?

@lauraldafonte,

Hope you can get things worked out. As others have alluded, we ended up treating it as an expensive lesson learned. We engaged another architect and moved on. It was still a pretty bitter pill to swallow though.

I still have not given up on trying to work things out. They have a good reputation and I hope they will want to resolve this in a way that works for both of us.

Usually when a general contractor is involved in the design process with the architect the process goes smother than you have experienced. Make sure you convey all your concerns to the general contractor and verify the architect's license with the State. I hope you can work things out with them.

Many people think I was unrealistic, but it was me that kept asking if the items that they were including fit in our budget. I was happy with the bathrooms and the layout of the entire 2nd floor. I even had many fixtures that I was keeping. I wanted to reuse cabinetry and just paint it out for use in the pantry...etc. I didn't drive the cost up. I thought they designed a house based on our budget.

What research did you do that determined that 400K was an appropriate budget for your list of changes? What is the complete list of changes? A “total update, inside and out” is as costly as the house purchase price. Or more so. Why did you buy a house that displeased you so much? Why did you not buy the already remodeled 2M house instead?

When pricing comes back 3x the desired budget, it’s not any add ons driving the costs. It’s the basic items and a basic misunderstanding of construction costs. Renovations are far more expensive than new construction. There’s just too much scope for the money. The scope has to be reduced. So, post the entire actual scope. Not a vague list.

We purchased the house because it was in a beautiful location and the house bones suited our needs. Why we bought the house seems irrelevant to the conversation though. We didn’t research what was an appropriate budget, rather we gave a budget asking what can we do for that amount. We consistently asked if the design fell within our budget. We relied on the builder and architect to create what was needed. I’m curious if you are suggesting that the builder had a misunderstanding of construction costs? This is exactly why we hired professionals...to understand the building process and costs involved. We did not have $2M to spend on a home, we had $1M. In our area you can purchase new 3000sqf homes for $400k. As far as listing everything it seems pointless. We were given a set of plans and we liked them. We made small changes to door placements and appliance locations, etc. If I say we wanted a kitchen remodel, then you say that there are different ideas as to what a kitchen remodel entails. Since we didn’t get to that point yet how do you know what the actual cost of the kitchen will be? My list is as of right now vague. I guess my question is why did a professional builder not know the costs involved in the plans he was creating and inform us they will exceed our budget unless they hoped we would get frustrated and they can walk away with our money?

I still have not given up on trying to work things out.

I hope it works out but will caution that you guard against the sunk cost fallacy. Regardless of whether all this money is wasted or there is some value there, the money you already spent is not relevant. The money you still have to spend and the results you will get for spending it, are all that really matter. If this is the wrong contractor for your job, giving him more money is unlikely to make him the right contractor for your job.

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I personally could not work with a contractor who did this. I would question the validity of every recommendation and decision going forward and without some element of trust the odds of having a positive outcome are too low. You may feel otherwise.

The contractor finally asked, after 11 months, to get out of our contractual agreement .He decided to refunded my $25K and part ways. I'm glad I didn't walk away and continued to hold him to the parameters of our contract which stated that he would provide me with architectural drawings. I was more than happy to scale down project, but I wanted to know what the project would look like once complete.All's well that ends well!

I've never paid a contractor a retainer, and never would. To me that's a warning sign. Sure, I'll pay for time spent on a project after the hours have been worked, but that's it. So, I'm glad you got out of this and got your money back. And I hope you consider walking away in advance from any potential contractor that tries this BS. I remodeled a number of times and I've always been able to find well-regarded contractors who did excellent work...and were ethical and financially stable enough to not expect money upfront.

Wow, I'm so glad that you have resolved this situation and have gotten back your money. Thanks for letting us know, and good luck finding someone else whom you can work with and who can give you what you want at a fair price.

kudzu9:

It depends. I have sinks custom made for customers. Once I approve the drawing, that sink goes into production and I get charged. I pay for that sink with the customer's down payment. That down payment is nonrefundable. That is nonnegotiable and that is legal in Florida.

Joseph-

I would find the situation you described acceptable because that’s work in progress. What I wouldn’t do, though, is fork over $25K to a contractor who hasn’t done anything much other than meet with me.

Usually you make a deposit when you sign the contract and have all the plans ready to go. The contract has a payment schedule designating when payment is due, after specific tasks are completed, like after foundation poured, drywall finished, etc.