Lawsuits allege Hilton, other hotels discriminate against Black guests

dublinbay z6 (KS)

Not too many days ago we had an argument on this forum about the difference between black-on-white (or vice versa) crime and racist crimes. Some posters had trouble comprehending 'racist'--crimes committed because the victim is black. However, my point didn't get through to everyone, I guess, because the next day one of those posters was mis-using those terms on another thread.

So, I thought that maybe the following article might help clarify why some actions are considered 'racist.' Perhaps.

-------------------------

"Albert Law had checked into the Hilton Richmond Downtown in Virginia's capital and was waiting in the lobby when a security guard approached him with a question. It floored him.

"Do you belong here?" the guard inquired, demanding to see his room key and identification. As the only Black person seated near several white people – none of whom was asked the same question – Law was deeply offended, he said in an interview.

"It's a level of humiliation you can never get out of your head," said Law, a software executive from the Atlanta suburbs who had come to the hotel for a law enforcement administrators conferencein March 2018.

Law is one of several Black people who filed lawsuits alleging they were confronted about their presence at hotels where they were visitors or registered guests. In some instances, hotel staff called or threatened to call police.

[. . .]

Though the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis led to collective soul searching about the issue of racial profiling by police, an attorney who is representing and investigating eight race discrimination casesinvolving Hilton-brand hotelsquestioned whether Black people can receive fair and equal treatment while traveling.

"Hilton invites unbridled discrimination by encouraging hotel staff to confront persons in public areas and demand that they prove their right to be there," said Jason Kafoury, an attorney in Portland, Oregon, who is handling the Law case and others, all involving Black plaintiffs. "When guests take offense at being singled out, police are called."

Hilton said it has a zero-tolerance policy against racism or discrimination. . . .

[. . .]

Last month, a Black woman posted avideo of two police officers and a white hotel employee confronting her as her two children played in the swimming pool at a Hampton Inn, a Hilton brand, in Williamston, North Carolina. They demanded proof she was staying at the hotel.

"I feel it's discrimination. I have a room here," the woman said, holding up her room key.

Attorney Ben Crump, who is lead counsel for Floyd's family, said in a statement on Twitter that he represents the woman and that the hotel's actions smacked of injustice.

"For a hotel employee to DEMAND to see proof of being a guest only from the Black person and not from White people using the pool is BLATANT DISCRIMINATION," he tweeted. Calling the police, he said, is harassment.

The global head of Hampton, Shruti Gandhi Buckley, said the hotel employee who singled out the woman is no longer employed by the hotel.

[. . .]

Richard Willock of Madison, Mississippi, checked into a Hampton Inn in Nashville, Tennessee, in October 2018 with his son, who was attending a baseball camp at Vanderbilt University. A sports fan and coach, Willock was watching two games in the lobby – one on his iPad and the other on television – when he was approached by the front office manager, his lawsuit said. She asked if he was a guest and demanded his name and room number.

When Willock asked why he was singled out in a lobby filled with other people, some of whom appeared to be drunken Halloween revelers, the manager left and returned with a security guard, his lawsuit said.

"I gave her my room number, hoping that would settle what she wanted, but she continued on pressing me," Willock said in an interview. When she threatened to call the police, he said he told her, "Good luck with that because I have a son upstairs sleeping, and I am not going anywhere."

Willock said he stood his ground, "not knowing how this was going to play out," but another desk clerk interceded, saying she remembered him checking in.

[. . .]

Arnold Kemp went to the Palmer House, a Hilton hotel across the street from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, where he is dean of graduate studies, last October to meet a staff member. He went to the bar, then the lobby, where he met his friend, according to a synopsis prepared by his attorney. Almost as soon as he sat down, a plainclothes hotel security officer appeared and asked the woman if she knew Kemp.

“Yes, he’s my boss,” the woman said, to which the officer replied, “Well, he looks like someone we don’t want here,” according to Kemp.

Kemp said he returned the next day to complain at the front desk and got the brushoff. His lawyers announced this week they filed a discrimination complaint.

"I am at the top of my field, and if people like me don’t feel empowered to speak up and try to change institutional racism, it’s not going to change in this country," he said in an interview.

Meg Ryan, a Hilton spokesperson, said Kemp received a phone call and apology from the hotel."


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/hotels/2020/07/21/hilton-discrimination-lawsuits-black-guests-allege-racism-hotels/5405270002/

----------------------------

One of the above examples was also covered in the discussion some of us had several days ago (in case it sounded familiar to you).

There are several other examples included in the linked source, if you are interested in exploring the issue in more detail.

Kate

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batyabeth

"Well, he looks like someone we don’t want here,”"

aaaaand there you have it. At least these morons are being honest and saying out loud what they're thinking. Keep talking, you guys. I want to know who you are. The question is........is it one guy, or is it company policy? Of course it would be unspoken policy, not actually written down anywhere, but the guy got instructions from someone to do what he did.

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foodonastump

"Do you belong here?" the guard inquired, demanding to see his room key and identification. As the only Black person seated near several white people – none of whom was asked the same question – Law was deeply offended, he said in an interview.


I can’t blame him! It’s unfortunate that this case and others are getting lumped together with the silly pool incident.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Ask your Black friends about that.

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justerrilynn(10)

Many hotels outsource their security from security companies. Private clubs and other do the same. It reduces their personal liability. There is also a trend in outsourcing valet parkers for the same reason.

I would need more details all around before blaming Hilton.

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lurker111

Ask your Black friends about that.

Are my black relatives good enough? My black friends feel really uncomfortable with all of this and reassure me that the left is out of their minds.

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lurker111

I've had the same thing happen to me a few times. Long hair and band attire will get that reaction. Yes, I was offended and the person bold enough to question my attendance heard about it for the rest of the night. The end.

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queenmargo

LOL lurker, I was stopped at a Casino hotel in Las Vegas back in my younger day I was staying at. They wanted to cite me for "solicitation" lol. I guess I looked like a hooker. I showed them my key and told them I came in on the "Fun Bus" from California.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)


Hair Length vs Skin Color.

How do these differ?

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justerrilynn(10)

My bags were searched at the airport a few years ago. I guess they thought I was a terrorist after a signal from a police dog. After nothing was found I was asked something about peroxide. I couldn’t fully understand what was being said. My reply was that I had had hair dye in my bag but used it during vacation. I only use half a container at a time for roots.

Could I claim I was delayed because I am a woman?

Who would I sue? The dog? The airport? Security? The airline?

How much money could I make from press exclusives?

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lurker111

Hair Length vs Skin Color.

How do these differ?

They don't. Not to me. Some people will judge you by your appearance. Who cares? Why would it bother me if some idiot didn't like they way I looked?

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foodonastump

Agreed, Thor. One thing to judge people on how they present themselves (some complain about that, too, but I say whatever) but quite another simply based on skin color.

Here’s why I speak up on these discussions when they seem questionable. Taking the description of what happened to Mr. Law at face value, he was singled out in a room full of white people. I’d be upset, too. Prejudice, plain and simple.

But what takes away from these cases is BS like the pool incident. If you have to leave out key details to make a case, it puts you on shaky ground. People did that on the original thread, and cRump is doing it again. There was a clear difference - beyond skin color - why she was singled out over other guests.

Lumping these cases together does a disservice to the legitimate one.

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deegw

Personal anecdotes, while potentially interesting, are not a compelling rebuttal.

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lurker111

I'm sure there is more to the story than just skin color.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

One might ask why some posters are so deeply resistant to seeing any racism in such incidents. Why so quick to denial--with no consideration that there might be some validity to the complaints.

For instance, what is the difference between skin color and long hair? One can be fixed, changed, if so desired. The other one cannot. Hopefully readers can tell the difference and realize the significance rather than rush to denial.

If you can't think of any difference between the two, consider the fact that you cannot be arrested for discriminating against long hair, but you can be arrested for discriminating against someone because of skin color. Surely you can understand that difference, if nothing else--maybe even why there is a difference?

Kate

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lurker111

One can be fixed, changed, if so desired.

Lame excuse.

If you can't think of any difference between the two, consider the fact
that you cannot be arrested for discriminating against long hair, but
you can be arrested for discriminating against someone because of skin color.

Hogwash.

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deegw


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adoptedbyhounds

"Personal anecdotes, while potentially interesting, are not a compelling rebuttal."

Nor are personal anecdotes claiming racism evidence of racism.

It's OK not to jump on the "America is RACIST!' bandwagon while you wait for more information.

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queenmargo

It's OK not to jump on the "America is RACIST!' bandwagon while you wait for more information.

Truly, without RACISM, the left ain't got nuthin!!!!!!!!!

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bleusblue2

^^^Well, qm -- I posted it and deleted it immediately but I wasn't fast enough. Why did I delete it? Because there is no point. Talk among yourselves.

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Joaniepoanie

Truly, without RACISM, the left ain't got nuthin!!!!!!!!!

******

Hoot....that would be the RW. It’s what got Trump elected. It was music to their ears.

Mexicans are rapists

Muslim ban

Haitians...get em outta here

Why can’t we have more Norwegians?


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deegw

Equating posting about cases that are currently in the court system to posting random, unsubstantiated anecdotes from ? years ago is disingenuous.


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queenmargo

Joaniepoane- you only heard what you wanted to hear.

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queenmargo

Equating posting about cases that are currently in the court system to posting random stories from 20 years ago is disingenuous.

Yeah, blah, blah, that is what "deplorable's" do. ;))

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llucy

FOAS: But what takes away from these cases is BS like the pool incident. If you have to leave out key details to make a case, it puts you on shaky ground. There was a clear difference - beyond skin color - why she was singled out over other guests. Lumping these cases together does a disservice to the legitimate one.

The pool incident was a woman who left her kids unsupervised in a gated Hampton Inn pool despite the posted pool regulations. When an employee asked the kids where their adult was, they pointed to a car in the parking lot. The employee asked the woman in the car her name and room # to ascertain she was a guest of the hotel. The woman refused to give that information.

As per the hotel's policy, the employee called the police to investigate whether or not the woman was trespassing. The police were able to determine the woman was registered at the hotel. The uncooperative woman who left her kids unsupervised at the pool happened to be black. The employee happened to be white.

There would have been no "incident" at all if the woman had simply given her name and room # when asked. There was no racism - this "incident" never would have made any news if both employee and guest were the same color - whatever color.

Dublinbay: One might ask why some posters are so deeply resistant to seeing any racism in such incidents. Why so quick to denial--with no consideration that there might be some validity to the complaints.

Kate, I wonder why you seemingly scour the internet to post incidents that may OR MAY NOT BE racially motivated on this forum. At least once a week you post some stuff along the same lines. What do you get out of it?

Margo made an adroit point:

Might being the operative word. Why don't you WAIT until ALL the details come out before you post racist baiting threads?



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maifleur03

Interesting. Last night I posted that I had personally seen it based on my first name at hotels but the post was removed. I found it amazing when a middle aged white woman standing in front of the check in desk could generate the comments about I could not be in "that" room. That room always turned out to be next to the laundry or back then furnace room. Or the Black person that was there before me was ignored. When it has been pointed out that they were there first the clerks from their facial expressions were not happy. Not the hooker thing although I have been "looked".

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elvis


dublinbay z6 (KS)

One might ask why some posters are so deeply resistant to seeing any racism in such incidents. Why so quick to denial--with no consideration that there might be some validity to the complaints.

Fair enough. So's this:




One might ask why some posters are so deeply insistent on seeing racism in such incidents. Why so quick to assume the worst--with no consideration that there might be some validity to the unwanted scrutiny.

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jmm1837

"One might ask why some posters are so deeply insistent on seeing racism in such incidents."


Perhaps its the pattern created by all those lawsuits.

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elvis

Could be, but this brings to mind that so many people sue for whiplash after an accident. Get enough of those, and the concept loses credibility.

Perhaps its the pattern created by all those lawsuits.

Double-edged sword.

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jmm1837

Or perhaps it's actually real.

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elvis

Perhaps. Bottom line is that most people see what they expect to see and believe what they wish to believe So it goes.

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jmm1837

More to the point, a lot of people refuse to see what they don't want to see. A person who wants to believe there is no issue with systemic racism looks at BLM protests, sentencing imbalances between white and black offenders, blatant racism by small town politicians and national leaders, lawsuits against hotels, the rise of white supremacist groups, and more than a smattering of racist attitudes right here on Houzz, and dismisses them all as aberrations. Others seem the as symptomatic of the problem.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

llucy asked:

"Kate, I wonder why you seemingly scour the internet to post incidents that may OR MAY NOT BE racially motivated on this forum."

I do not "scour" the internet. That is your perception/interpretation. And it happens to be wrong. Most mornings I browse the morning headlines to see what is in the day's news. Racist incidents pop up with fair regularity.

I do not post about incidents that "MAY NOT BE racially motivated." That they "may not be" is, again, your perception/interpretation. I post the ones that most likely or even definitely are "racist." (Is "racist" what you mean by "racially motivated"? "Racist" is what I am talking about, at any rate.)


"At least once a week you post some stuff along the same lines."

Once a week? You must not be reading my posts with much regularity if that is all you have seen. I could swear that I often post 3 or 4, sometimes even 6 or more, a week.

If your question is about do I do this every week or all the time. No--just when current events have brought the issue to my attention again--and when a number of posters exhibit the "denial" syndrome.


"What do you get out of it?"

I'm hoping that at least a few people will learn from the posted examples that racism is fairly commonplace in our culture. Awareness is the first step toward change, after all.



Now, what is your motivation for posting, especially for always disagreeing with me, llucy?

Kate

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shaxhome (Frog Rock, Australia 9b)(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

"My bags were searched at the airport a
few years ago. I guess they thought I was a terrorist after a signal
from a police dog. After nothing was found I was asked something about
peroxide. I couldn’t fully understand what was being said. My reply was
that I had had hair dye in my bag but used it during vacation. I only
use half a container at a time for roots.

Could I claim I was delayed because I am a woman?

Who would I sue? The dog? The airport? Security? The airline?

How much money could I make from press exclusives?"

This made me LOL. You weren't stopped because you are a woman. Your bags were searched because a trained sniffer-dog detected traces of a potential substance that was possibly part of an explosive that could blow a plane from the sky, killing hundreds of people. Why on earth would you consider suing? Litigious USA...

The black people stopped and questioned in hotel foyers etc were detained and questioned because of the colour of their skin. They were posing no threats to anyone.

Simple.

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justerrilynn(10)

It’s not simple if people are too simple to wait for the whole story to come out. Perhaps you don’t realize this. It’s ok, you are not from here.

My advice to you would be to put down the liberal based faux news rags. Every year there is presidential voting the left pull out the race card. It’s nothing new. America is a good country with good people. 98.9% of us could care less what your skin color is. We are not perfect but we are not as the crazy lefty loons portray us as a country. They are really into shaming to get their way.

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shaxhome (Frog Rock, Australia 9b)(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

"98.9% of us could care less what your skin color is."

Evidence, please. The guy who repaired my chainsaw said that his sister met a woman whose cousin has an acquaintance whose hairdresser told her that a new customer read on Facebook that 47.6% of people in the USA are racist.

That's proof, in my book.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Let's face it--there will never be enough of the story to come out to convince you that there is too much racism in America.

Some people won't be convinced because they do not want to be convinced--no matter how much evidence is spread before them.

Kate

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justerrilynn(10)

I’m convinced there are people with hateful hearts in America and every other country in the world. Some of the people in their hateful path may or may not be black. Heck, some of the hateful people are black. Hateful people come in all colors, not just white Kate.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Some people won't be convinced because they do not want to be convinced--no matter how much evidence is spread before them.

I agree.

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miss lindsey (She/Her)(8a)

justerrilynn(10)

21 minutes ago

I’m convinced there are people with hateful hearts in America and every other country in the world. Some of the people in their hateful path may or may not be black. Heck, some of the hateful people are black. Hateful people come in all colors, not just white Kate.

———

And then there are the people who hate Black people simply because of their skin colour.

Those are the people who can be described as racist, bigoted, or xenophobic.

A person might hate someone who is Black for any number of reasons. When a person hates, fears, or has disdain for someone who is Black without knowing him/her, simply because s/he is Black, that hatred enters the arena of the topic in discussion on this thread.

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llucy

Now, what is your motivation for posting, especially for always disagreeing with me, llucy?

Kate

My motivation for posting on this thread was agreement with FOAS about omission of pertinent details in some of these purported racial incidents. The Hampton pool was an example.

I have been curious why you start so many *white folk behaving badly* threads. I don't read or comment on most of them. I do sometimes read threads you start on other topics and may offer my own POV, but I'm perplexed you believe I always disagree with you. I don't remember addressing you directly on other threads recently. Maybe that is just your own perception/interpretation?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

If an individual poster does not approve of what others are posting, my advice to that individual poster is to scroll on by--ignore topics if they do not meet with your approval.

I have been posting here for years. This is the first time I have been asked to justify my topic selections. I tried to answer you politely, but quite frankly, I find your questioning borderline rude and I will not continue this discussion with you.

Kate


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llucy

I tried to answer you politely, but quite frankly, I find your questioning borderline rude and I will not continue this discussion with you.

DITTO

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justerrilynn(10)

Miss Lindsey, people hate for all manner of reasons. Sometimes it’s not hate though, sometimes a person might be acting like a jerk...not to be confused with racism.

Anyway, I would encourage you to learn about the cultural genocide of Canada’s indigenous peoples. Also, maybe learn about the national tragedy of the MURDER and disappearance of thousands of indigenous women and girls in Canada.

I will look forward to reading your solutions on one of your “what I’m learning“ posts.

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jmm1837

For heavens sakes, one wrong doesnt justify another (and the US record on indigenous peoples is at least as bad as Canada's ). So make that two wrongs don't justify the third.

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justerrilynn(10)

Of course, however, some think they are perfect. They are not.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Rather ironic that the US seeks to lecture Canada on the treatment of indigenous peoples when the US has treated/is treating indigenous peoples as bad or worse than the Canadians.

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justerrilynn(10)

Its not a lecture. It’s a reminder that one is not better than the other.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I would encourage you to learn about the cultural genocide of Canada’s indigenous peoples.

Reads like a lecturing moment to me -- plus the assumption that someone living in Canada and is current on political trends and developments is unaware of their history.

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justerrilynn(10)

Nancy, maybe you haven’t been following. Linsey often shares what she is learning. I’m just sharing as well.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I doubt that Lindsey has need of a non-Canadian to suggest areas of learning in regards to Canadian history -- especially as the topic of First Nations is part of Canadian politics.

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HU-274840647

Black people have been treated very badly ever since we imported them against their will and when slavery ended we had no idea what to do with them. As we had spent time and energy on justifying slavery by claiming that they were not like us certainly not as good as us then we let these animals out of their cage what to do, maybe they will die out.

Ancient history you say, and in the year 2020 some people have to justify why they have the right to live among we superior white folk.

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elvis

I'm hoping that at least a few people will learn from the posted examples that racism is fairly commonplace in our culture. Awareness is the first step toward change, after all.

I doubt they will learn little more than that you fancy showcasing instances wherein black people are portrayed as victims of white people. It's kinda obvious, to the point of being humorous.

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jmm1837

Cattyles - I think 647's point was that white folks don't need to justify sitting in a hotel lobby, but black folks often do. In 2020, they are still subject to closer scrutiny and a higher level of mistrust than "us" purely because of a vestigial belief in their lesser human status.

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HU-274840647

What did you say cattyles? I would like the chance to remedy what I think is a misunderstanding

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miss lindsey (She/Her)(8a)

Don’t worry justerrilynn, I’m continually learning on a variety of subjects and I’ll continue posting them here when they are relevant. Take the information or leave it, it’s all the same to me.

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justerrilynn(10)

I have no problem going back and forth Lindsey. That is what this site is for. Unlike some people I don’t get grudge-y about it.

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miss lindsey (She/Her)(8a)

justerrilynn I guess you’ve missed my numerous comments about First Nations people in Canada. Pity.

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cattyles

HU647, it’s my fault and no problem. I wasn’t reading carefully. I’m sorry about the misunderstanding. 🌻

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justerrilynn(10)

I didn’t see it Lindsey, sorry.

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miss lindsey (She/Her)(8a)

No worries justerrilynn, I mostly bring it up on threads pertaining specifically to Canada, and there aren’t many of those.

Did you also miss where I’ve explained that I am in fact American? So even though I have no theoretical problem with “outsiders” pointing out where America is falling short in the eyes of her allies, I am not actually one of those “outsiders.” It is quite astonishing the perspective one gains when looking at a challenge from a distance though.

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adoptedbyhounds

I'm hoping that at least a few people will learn from the posted examples that racism is fairly commonplace in our culture.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More than a few people know from other "posted examples" that false accusations and lawsuits alleging racism are also commonplace. We're about due for another restaurant tab doctored with a racist message to become front page news.

Some of us have watched the "America is Racist"! narrative play out for years.

In 1987:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/05/209194252/15-years-later-tawana-brawley-has-paid-1-percent-of-penalty

In 2006:

https://thefederalist.com/2016/03/16/fantastic-lies-10-appalling-moments-from-the-duke-lacrosse-case/

in 2019:

https://abc7chicago.com/brothers-told-police-smollett-was-upset-threatening-letter-didnt-get-enough-attention-staged-attack/5143364/

"America is Racist" is an ongoing narrative. By the time investigators catch up with the fake "victims" they have already victimized other people with false accusations. The scammers make it harder for real victims to tell their stories and be believed because the MSM keeps the accusation going 24/7.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Three unfortunate examples in over thirty years. Not exactly an "epidemic."

False charges are always to be deplored, though you do overwork those three. That is not the issue here, however.

I'd guess that there are more false charges of "false charge" than there are of "discrimination."

Kate

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llucy

More than a few people know from other "posted examples" that false accusations and lawsuits alleging racism are also commonplace.

Unfortunately true and the reason some of us don't automatically take 'race related incidents ' accurate as written and will wait for further details.

We know racism exists. We also know dishonest people exist and come in all colors and ethnicity. We've discovered some writers deliberately omit facts and slant stories to make them more sensational and saleable.

We may be a bit less gullible and a bit more skeptical thanks to Jussie Smollett.

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elvis

I'm hoping that at least a few people will learn from the posted examples that racism is fairly commonplace in our culture.

Intolerance, in many forms, is present in many cultures worldwide, be it skin color, intellect, ethnicity, political inclination, religious preference, etc.

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adoptedbyhounds

"Three unfortunate examples in over thirty years. Not exactly an "epidemic."

Didn't make such a claim. Three examples do not make for a comprehensive history, any more than the examples you presented. I included 1987 because it is important that younger people know who the participants were. One of them is now part of the MSM.

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HU-274840647

Although what elvis writes is no doubt true surely racism in the United States is special case due to slavery and this is what we must face up to. As an example, James Baldwin was just as black in Paris as he was in New York but he never experienced hatred because of that color in Paris.

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lurker111

Slavery in America is ancient history. It's nothing I need to "face up to". How silly. Blacks were not the only slaves and blacks owned slaves.

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HU-274840647

You are wrong lurker. Before you call anyone silly you might want to have a look at slavery and it’s aftermath otherwise making a comment from ignorance, now that really is silly. That initially there were white slaves and a few blacks were slave owners this alters nothing.

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jmm1837

"Intolerance, in many forms, is present in many cultures worldwide, be it skin color, intellect, ethnicity, political inclination, religious preference, etc."

Of course intolerance exists everywhere. That doesn't make it okay anywhere, and certainly not in developed democracies. A developed society should be outraged that it still exists within its borders and should be pulling out all the stops to eliminate it, education being a good place to start. Instead we see people denying it exists at all (while simultaneously being evidence that it does) and others downplaying it because it's only happening in small towns or someone once lied about being a victim of racism. Give me a break.

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justerrilynn(10)

People would be more than willing to discuss disadvantaged peoples, particularly in inner cities. They need to be safe, have better education etcetera ...most people do not care about people’s color although we know there are a few bad apples. I think people are just getting weary of the usual trumped up claims by democrats to use blacks for votes. This happens before every presidential election.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

people are just getting weary of the usual trumped up claims by democrats to use blacks for votes

Maybe conservatives are, but please consider that the GOP's decades-old Southern Strategy is the biggest promoter of Blacks voting for Democratic candidates.

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patriciae_gw(07)

This is as good a place as any to think that Slavery has led to racism has it backwards. It was Racism that led to slavery. Only by believing that people arent really people can someone decide you can own that person and own their children and make them work for you for free. Freeing people from bondage doesnt do a thing to get rid of the racism that led to it. When it was no longer legal to own blacks the trade turned to Asians who were treated just as badly. When people are viewed as not human you get these issues.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

It was Racism that led to slavery

Years ago I read that the lucrative slave trade and use of slaves as unpaid workers lead to the idea of Africans as inferior so as to remove a European -- then American -- guilty conscience when reaping in the profits from human misery.

Of course, once the idea of African inferiority was established, future generations could participate in the ownership of slaves with a [relatively] clear conscience.

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elvis

patriciae_gw(07)

This is as good a place as any to think that Slavery has led to racism has it backwards. It was Racism that led to slavery. Only by believing that people arent really people can someone decide you can own that person and own their children and make them work for you for free

And here I always thought of serfs as caucasian.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Nancy, only by believing black African people to be inferior sorts of being can you justifying taking them from Africa and making them not only work for free but create new generations of inferior subhumans for you to own and exploit. The original people who bought these people had no history of owning people. Those people were viewed as a sort of cattle suitable for labor. The native people they found here were not suitable. They refused enslavement. The people who owned slaves constantly strove to justify why and how they could do that. They would even argue to themselves that they were improving the breed. It is all those diaries I have read. And yet they knew better and were actually afraid of their slaves. You never knew what they were actually thinking they would say. It is very strange but selfish evil people will do what they do.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Elvis the concept of serf is bound up in place and caste and is very complex but it was long gone by the time the people who came here-people who might very well be the descendants of those serfs of the distant past., bought slaves Serfs didnt work for free, they had their own expected payment and obligations. Property owners had as much obligation to their serfs as the serf had to them, a sort of mutual bondage but an owner of a black slave had no more legal obligation to that slave than any cow they might own.

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bleusblue2

^^^from what I remember about history and Roman times -- Slaves were people taken in war -- but they had rights and could buy their way out of slavery and even rise in the hierarchy. They could be of any race.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

And yet they knew better and were actually afraid of their slaves.

I'm struck by the contradiction between belief in the intellectual inferiority of the African slaves, and the very real fear of slaves learning to read and write.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Strange isnt it. The speech patterns used by slaves so often reproduced in the diaries of owners as a sign of inferiority of the slaves was designed to mislead the white owner, to keep them fooled. Being viewed as uppity was dangerous. Woolie headed was safer for a person who had no power to protect themselves. Happy Darkie syndrome. Women have historically done the same thing. Being able to write though was a specific danger. Slaves off the plantation had to have a pass and a literate slave who could write could write passes. Restrictions on access to paper was strict. In the memoir Twelve Years a Slave he speaks of the almost impossible task of getting writing paper.

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