Mystery? no not hardly... you're trying to cheat. How is that battery in the nest going to recharge itself? Osmosis?

This is why Google is so stupid paying billions of dollars for this glorious paper weight.

I feel like a little slow on the uptake, but yeah, you may be right. it seems some people are figuring it out.

The Fast Stat 3000 has a sender and a receiver. I see the receiver, where is the sender located? The way this is supposed to work is the one wire (purple) has the ability to multiplex the functions of three wires (W, G, and Y). The R wire carries the power between the receiver, sender, and furnace.

If your old thermostat worked well for heating and cooling, then we can assume for a minute the sender and receiver are wired correctly. I think the problem is the Nest has no C wire. In that case the Nest uses the other wires to power the WiFi radio. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think the fix here is to add a C wire.

It looks like there is a brown wire in the wall behind the Nest. If that is an unused wire running back to the furnace, then you may be able to use it as the C wire.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I don't see a brown wire, unfortunately, but I think you are right. we need something providing constant power to the system. I need to figure out that wiring scheme it sounds like.

As of February 2018 Google sold 11 million Nest thermostats. At a average selling price of $200 that is a $2.2B in revenue. Most companies would love to own that paperweight. With the ability to control the thermostat through Alexa devices, the smart thermostat business will continue to grow.

The mistake Google (the Nest company no longer exists) is to tell installers a C wire in not required in most cases. The homeowner believes it is a simple installation. They should be upfront and say use without a C wire is not guaranteed to operate under all conditions..

According to what I read with a link provided... the nest produces 726 million in revenue with a 621 million loss.

So Google loses over half billion a year. Paid over 3 billion for the company years ago. (these figures as of 2018, probably worse now)

Google losing 621 million a year on Nest

Do you think Google made a financial mistake buying Nest?

It's been said years ago.... where have you been Mike?

From Wiki: By June 2016, the Nest acquisition was described by some press as a "disaster" for Google.[20]

Nest's problems in 2016 stem in a large part due to a limited market. According to Frank Gillet of Forrester Research, only 6% of American households possess internet-connected devices such as appliances, home-monitoring systems, speakers, or lighting. He also predicted this percentage to grow to only 15% by 2021. Furthermore, 72% of respondents in a 2016 survey conducted by Pricewaterhouse Coopers did not foresee adopting smart-home technology over the next two to five years.[21]

Read the whole fiasco here: The google owned 'rat' nest.

The money problem stems from the quote above.

3.2 billion + over 500,000 per year

Bought in Jan. 2014 for 3.2 billion / 6 x 500,000 per year in losses (at least)

Total waste likely over 6.2 billion. You never recoup these costs at $250 a pop for a thermostat installed by DIY's. Even selling them thru Energy company partnerships / ADT or whatever presents challenges --- compatibility is a big one.

Primary competition: Amazon (owns the popular ring door bell)

So a 15% market share that is probably being shared with the likes of Amazon but more interestingly is that if a market can afford these types of gadgets they could also afford a communicating HVAC system which would render the Google nest utterly useless. (Nest doesn't work with communicating systems).

So if this market is equally shared among Amazon, Google and Honeywell via the communicating system... that makes 5% each.

It doesn't take a math whiz to determine this is a dog. I can hear Kevin O'leary saying take this dog out back and shoot him.

To make matters even worse for this high end market is that there are rumors that Tesla *may be* entering this market -- but not just a thermostat --- actual HVAC equipment. Currently AFAIK, this is just a rumor. But with power walls and solar roofs for the home --- HVAC would be a logical next step for Tesla.

I agree the initial purchase price in 2014 was way over priced. Perhaps Google saw this as the big plan to control the Smart Home market. But on the other hand Kevin O'leary thought the price to invest in the Ring doorbell was too high and declined.The founder went on to become rich and is now a Shark himself. Since then O'Leary has regretted his decision.

The problem with Nest is it advertises itself to be able to connect to any HVAC equipment. It is false advertising in my opinion. The Nest engineers have employed a circuit to use power stealing in order to avoid connecting a C wire. Short term it may work, but long tern it will not and cause frustration.

When it debuted on Shark Tank it was called Doorbot. There wasn't much of a need then until a short while later criminals started stealing packages from Amazon (ironically) off people's door steps.

O'leary isn't a psychic. So a 7 million valuation then... was clearly over valued then until the problem of stolen packages emerged.

Problem solving is solving a problem that exists... not creating one out of thin air. Timing and clever marketing along with name change is what made this into what it is. That required work.

It's completely different situation compared to Nest. Because nest doesn't really solve any problems that another thermostat couldn't solve without creating new additional headaches. (compatibility in most cases).

Amazon is probably making money off Ring. Google doesn't like that so they won't allow nest products to work with Ring. Another reason nest is probably DOA.

People have been stealing delivered packages before Amazon existed. I suppose Mr. Wonderful couldn't see the potential of combining a doorbell with video surveillance.

I agree the Nest thermostat doesn't solve problems. It was marketed as a learning thermostat which in my opinion causes more problems than it solves. There are some Nest models which work with Alexa. That's a feature that I would like given how often people are changing the thermostat settings in my house. If I could train it to only recognize my voice commands I might go a buy one tomorrow.

Nest also makes a doorbell similar to Ring. In one review I saw comparing the two the reviewer favored the Nest over the Ring. I don't see Google putting Honeywell out of the thermostat business. Google has bigger plans than selling thermostats.

That's not what the record shows... 2013 appeared on Shark Tank.

2016.... 3 years later the problem of stealing packages. Shaq as well as others invested in the company.

This information is easily searched. It's 2020 when are you going to research things *before* you spout nonsense. This is the second time already in this thread.

Houzz, the home of misinformation?

quote: In 2016, Shaquille O'Neal acquired an equity stake in Ring, and subsequently became a spokesperson in the company's marketing.[7] In a series of internal emails, Siminoff declared war with "the dirtbag criminals that steal our packages and rob our houses" in 2016 and competitor ADT Inc. in 2017.[8]

Research: Doorbot to Ring the history of how things take shape.

Amazon didn't buy Ring until 2018... 5 years after Shark Tank debut. (alot of work went into it.)

Ray,

Sorry I don't have the latest data on how many delivery packages were being stolen in 2016 compared to 2013. I am sure the problem has grown. It appears Shaquille O'Neal is a better in seeing investment opportunities then Kevin O'Leary. Thanks for sharing all this research.

The discussion on this thread is about trying to provide a Nest thermostat with a C wire. There are millions of Nest thermostats installed throughout the country. I think most people don't care if Google made a good investment or not. It is irrelevant to the their problem of their Nest thermostat not working unless this bad investment will cause Google to discontinue selling thermostats.

As I stated earlier the flaw of Nest is advertising a thermostat with a WiFi radio which can work reliably without a dedicated ground connection. Next time I will only help advise the a poster how he should connect his Nest thermostat. I will leave it up to you to provide the financial summary of Google's investment.

mike_home

Do you think Google made a financial mistake buying Nest?

You asked. In terms of packages stolen when Doorbot debuted on shark tank, there was not a single mention of packages being stolen from front door.

Search for the video on YouTube it's there in color.

It was marketed as a way for people to see who was at the front door from their cell phone. (laziness like people can't look out a peep hole)

A mere 3 years later... things changed a problem developed.

The point: If you don't know and you post things pretending --- what good is it?

At some point it's a 'rat nest' of misinformation.

I should probably ignore you... you do more to keep me in business than anything I could possibly say or do.

Ray,

I am happy to hear I'm helping you grow your business. There are millions of Nest thermostats installed without C wires that need to be fixed. It's a great opportunity for you.

Many more than that --- quit working due to failure of battery to hold a charge. (#Pretty Paperweight)

The battery is not replaceable... they want you to buy a new one every couple of years or so.

So much fun... a pro is a pro because?

The warranty is designed to expire just before the battery does.

In some cases the battery is able to work for several months. In the case of this posting it stopped working when switched to cooling.

*some cases* I'd like to know how you know this Mike. ( are you running service calls now?)

Several months it's able to work? But it doesn't work in cooling mode.

LOL. When I say it works --- that means it works in any mode the operator puts it in.

The battery will always be the source of trouble for this expensive google experiment.... you aren't going to get around that because it's an energy hog.

This pic below is nothing new BTW, the thread gets locked after a time then starts anew.

The 3rd generation Nest thermostat has over 20,000 reviews on Amazon. Read the reviews posted by the buyers of the product. You can see the common complaints. If there is no C wire the Nest has to rely on it power stealing mode to operate.

If the supply voltage to the micro-controller is too low, the voltage detection circuit switches to the battery to power the electronics. The battery is not getting recharged and eventually the electronics stop operating. There is a period of time when the battery is beginning to become too low in voltage that the electronics begins to work intermittently. There are many reports where people are stating sometimes it works great and other times it is ignoring temperature settings.

I agree when the device is operating below the minimum supply voltage the device will fail and report errors. This includes the low battery indication. In the thread you posted, the homeowner may have installed it according to the instructions supplied by Google. It could be another no C wire installation.

Well Amazon also has an incentivized review system. So just how much you can trust those reviews is anyone's guess.

The picture of the post that I posted claims the unit is wired properly. It doesn't go into specifics as having a c wire or not. But I have seen problems in the field with nest actual calls I have run.

I have also condemned other thermostats (other brands) not smart stats. So they all fail at some point... the biggest difference among those?

AGE. Nest's don't last as long (without trouble) in many cases it's intermittent issues of the equipment acting erratically.

Can't tell you how many times I get a blank stare from someone when I tell them the problem is the highly coveted do no wrong Nest thermostat. I stopped counting years ago.