Portland protest peaceful after federal presence reduced

dublinbay z6 (KS)

Like the protesters said, it was Trump's storm troopers inserted into the middle of the Portland protests that were causing a lot of the problems there.

------------------------------

"More than a thousand people showed up in downtown Portland early Saturday to peacefully protest, about three days after the announcement that the presence of U.S. agents there would be reduced — a deal that Oregon officials hope will continue to ease tensions as the city tries to move on from months of chaotic nightly protests.

[. . .]

As of midnight on Saturday, no federal agents had emerged from the courthouse, which has been the center of protests for weeks, and there was no noticeable law enforcement presence surrounding the area.

The fence that has separated protesters and U.S. agents stationed at the courthouse was decorated with balloons and upside down American flags sewn together with “BLM” painted across, an apparent reference to the Black Lives Matter movement.

At one point in the night a small firework was shot over the fence. As it sizzled out on its own, protesters pleaded with others to remain peaceful. Later, a few small fires were occasionally started outside the courthouse, with at least one put out by other protesters.

[. . .]

A group identified as “Firefighters for Black Lives Matter” gathered in a small park a couple miles west of the courthouse. Another group, “Unemployed Workers for Black Lives” began to march towards the federal building around 8 p.m. People stood next to a makeshift memorial, with the pictures and names of Black people killed by police, at the Waterfront Park. A parade of cars with Black Lives Matter signs taped to their windows slowed traffic in the city.

[. . .]

Leaders in Oregon are pushing for a raft of measures that would address systemic racism in everything from policing to housing. Those proposals could be fast-tracked for consideration in a special legislative session later this summer.

The governor also announced the creation of a Racial Justice Council to advise her on criminal justice reform and police accountability, health equity, economic opportunity, housing and homelessness, and environmental justice.

Portland’s City Council also voted this week to refer a ballot measure to voters in November that would create a police review board independent from any elected official or city department."

https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-hopes-changes-ongoing-portland-050627198.html

---------------------------

Promising movement toward change. Let's keep an eye on them to make sure the "follow through" actually follows through!

In the meantime, let this be a lesson to the authorities. When protesters say the authorities are the problem, maybe they are right.

Kate

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paprikash

How nice that the rioters didn’t burn the courthouse down. We should all be grateful and compliment them on their restraint.

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mrskjun(9)

First of all, federal presence has not been reduced. Oregon governor finally sent the state police (stormtroopers?) to quell the violence which they should have done on day 2. Federal marshalls will leave once federal property is safe from the violence.

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Joaniepoanie

Trump just sent in his goon agitators for photo ops in order to gin up his campaign rhetoric that the Dem protests are riots. Same as he’s trying to scare white suburbia with the Dems allowing low income housing in their neighborhoods.

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mudhouse

Right, mrskjun.

Mayor Wheeler found a spine. The Portland police cleared two parks of protesters early on Thursday, at the request of the Oregon State Police.

They should have done this when the violent acts started.

PORTLAND, Ore. (KOIN) — At least one arrest was made as authorities cleared out protesters from Chapman and Lownsdale Square parks early Thursday morning, following the 62nd consecutive night of demonstrations. Mayor Ted Wheeler said the move was at the request of Oregon State Police.

Just before 5:30 a.m., Portland police arrived at the parks donned in riot gear to announce both Chapman and Lownsdale Square parks were closed. The Portland Police Bureau ordered everyone inside the park and on the sidewalks to immediately leave to the north within 10 minutes — saying otherwise, people were subject to arrest, citations or crowd
control agents.

...Within 20 minutes of first announcing the closure of the park, PPB tweeted the parks had been safely cleared and thanked those who cooperated.

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/portland-protests-day-63-federal-agents-ppb-leave-clear-parks-07302020/

We'll see if the nightly protesters are willing now to stop trying to break into and burn down the courthouse; I hope so, because then the federal presence can be reduced. Looks like they've moved to burning bibles, as of yesterday. That ought to be a good way to encourage people to believe in Biden (or whatever they're trying to convince people to believe; I really can't tell.)

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mudhouse

Hampton said about 100 state police troopers and supervisors from all 36 Oregon counties will converge on the city starting Thursday. He said those responding have tactical and crowd control training. He said the protest area will also be cleaned up daily and efforts to remove graffiti will also begin.

He said the agency has committed to a minimum of two weeks on the ground in Portland.

Their actions during the protests will be directed by state police commanders; Hampton said he will oversee the overall response from an incident command center with Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell.

Hampton said additional state police supervisors will help monitor and direct officers from two additional command posts, in the federal courthouse and another federal building.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/oregon-state-police-take-over-portland-protest-duty-we-are-hoping-for-the-best-but-planning-for-the-worst.html

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maifleur03

When you post things that local police have done or not done you need to take into account the orders that were given to them by the federal people. Having been there the local police forces are told that they would only be backup.

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elvis

Having been there the local police forces are told that they would only be backup.

"Having been there"? You were there?

Or do you mean that the local police forces were there? Or are there? You said both things. I'm trying to figure out just what you are trying to say, Mai. Help me out here.

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Ziemia(6a)

Maybe this helped.

Also praise for this administration. Serious.

It's a good thing Brian Murphy has been side-lined at DHS. Haven't heard yet who made the decision, but it is someone high up. Sounds like he was a "no holds barred" sort.

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ronminsouthga

Any videos of the peaceful protest ?would love to see them.

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elvis

Yes: real, recent, and credible.

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mrskjun(9)

I find it so sickening to hear people call law enforcement, gestapo, stormtroopers, goons! When they leave for work, they don't know if they are going to return to their families. Or will they return blind, on life support? How soon have some forgotten the police who ran into the towers on 9/11 while others were running away. Or watched the police in Dallas running toward gunfire as the protesters they were protecting while they chanted "Pigs in a blanket, fry them up like bacon" ran away from the gunfire.

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Toby

There have been plenty of peaceful protests, which you'd know if you read or watched anything other than Trump State News.

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deegw

Here is one source.

If you'd like to see more you can use your favorite search engine and enter the key words, Portland peaceful protests. If your search engine has an option for date parameters you can use it to find the most recent videos and news stories.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-peaceful-protests-with-1000-demonstrators-forces-withdraw


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elvis

So the rioters are behaving less badly. Good.

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deegw


elvis

So the rioters are behaving less badly. Good.

--------------

The FOX news story that I linked referred to the demonstrations as peaceful protests. Where did you see that they were called riots?

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mrskjun(9)

I think ;the rioters kind of lost their CHOP zone. It has been peaceful protests every night until midnight when the criminals came out to play. Bringing molotov cocktails, saws, bolt cutters, commercial grade fireworks, pipe bombs.

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Iris GW

I find it so sickening to hear people call law enforcement

And I find it sickening when law enforcement personnel kill people unnecessarily, use unnecessary force, profiling people to pull over until those people no longer feel it's safe to go out on ordinary errands or their job.

mrskjun, there are wrong people on both sides. Calling out one without calling out the other is not fair.

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mudhouse

I hope the out of town rioters leave, now that they don't have a CHOP zone in the parks. And I hope the violence doesn't just move to other parts of the city. Last night, just before 11pm, a complex of townhomes and apartments in NE Portland was randomly sprayed with over 150 bullets.


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ronminsouthga

Toby I would love to see video show us? I have lots of the so called peaceful videos but you will not like the website so you will not watch. So again show us the videos.

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Kathy

The Department of Homeland Security has reassigned its top intelligence official, according to media outlets, following news that his office compiled intelligence reports on journalists and protesters in Portland, Ore.

Brian Murphy, who had been the acting undersecretary for the department's Office of Intelligence and Analysis, was removed from that position, according to The Washington Post, which was first to report the news. .......


.....House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff issued a statement Saturday saying the committee had been conducting an investigation into Murphy and the Office of Intelligence and Analysis for more than two weeks before the reassignment.

"In light of recent public reports, we are concerned that Murphy may have provided incomplete and potentially misleading information to Committee staff during our recent oversight engagement, and that the Department of Homeland Security and I&A are now delaying or withholding underlying intelligence products, legal memoranda, and other records requested by the Committee that could shed light on these actions," Schiff


https://www.npr.org/2020/08/02/898242662/dhs-reassigns-official-following-intelligence-reports-on-journalists-protesters


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ronminsouthga

NPR give me a break.

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Kathy

Facts are facts.

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Toby

Ron, thousands of peaceful protesters have gathered in Portland during daylight and evening hours. When the anarchists move in is when the peace ends. There have been estimates of around 200 anarchists at the courthouse. Those other thousand are ignored by Trump Media. I'm not searching for videos for you.

If you'd like to know more about ordinary citizens protesting, try the websites for the local newspaper, Oregonlive, and the TV stations KATU, KOIN, and KGW.

Wanna talk about South Georgia now? I hear they kill black joggers in your neck of the woods. Got any videos?

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maifleur03

elvis give it a rest. I was active in protests in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. Unless you have been active you have no idea what actually goes on at protests and how various police agencies handle things. When you have actually attended more than one protest and stood near a police command center and listen to what goes on you are talking out of thin air.

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elvis

"Give what a rest". Mai?

My last post was 3 hours ago, and read:

elvis

So the rioters are behaving less badly. Good.

I was sincere about that. Less violence is a good thing.

As far as your history of protesting, I trust that you were non-violent.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

It's really quite simple: the protesters and the rioters are two different groups that have very little (or nothing) in common.

What it comes down to is that the protesters are NOT rioting, and the rioters are NOT protesting.

That distinction should not be that hard to grasp.

Kate

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ohiomom

.......there is always a bottom line, and in this case the bottom line is attacking moms/vets was not really good ops for the tweeter. And on top of that in the whitest city in America? Yeah ya need new people tweety, the ones you have now aint working out so well for ya.

What's next tweeter?


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lurker111

There have been plenty of peaceful protests

Old joke.

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mrskjun(9)

Amazing isn't it? Thousands of people can gather together to protest Covid isn't going to touch them, but let 20 people gather for church service and they must be community spreaders. Walmart and Lowes are fine, but a small mom and pop store would endanger us all. What brilliant governors we have.

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Toby

Lol! ^Still doesn't understand how a coronavirus is spread.

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soupgirl53

The Covid -19 does not care what the subject matter of the gathering is!

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lurker111

Lol! ^Still doesn't understand how a coronavirus is spread.

Isn't it spread by large crowds? No social distancing and no masks? Just what we see at the pandemic protests.

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Toby

Yes, if there was no social distancing and no masks, it could be spread by a large outdoor crowd. But it is more likely to be spread indoors.

So does Mrskjun support banning all gatherings and closing all stores?

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Kathy

The biggest threat to the US is RW Terrorists. Repeat. Repeat til it sinks in.

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Joaniepoanie

Most Dem protesters are wearing masks, unlike the Trump rallies, unlike R congresspeople, unlike the armed trumper protesters in Mi and Wi. Will be interesting to see what happens at the Republican convention, even if it’s just a few hundred people.

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lurker111

Most Dem protesters are wearing masks,

Thanks for the laugh.

The biggest threat to the US is RW Terrorists. Repeat. Repeat til it sinks in.

That's not what I'm seeing every night. Good luck with that lie.

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Joaniepoanie

Guess Gohmert, Guilfoyle, trump staffers and SS were at Dem protests, since that’s how the virus is spreading—according only to trumpers.

Portland protests—-masks! And it’s been reported RW groups are agitating and causing violence at the protests.




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Ziemia(6a)

Hunh?

"Walmart and Lowes are fine, but a small mom and pop store would endanger us all"

Where?

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lurker111

The peaceful protests are so peaceful, they go berserk.

And it’s been reported RW groups are agitating and causing violence at the protests.

lol

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lurker111

Propaganda...

Portland protest peaceful after federal presence reduced

Reality...

"Portland protest peaceful"...(sure)...after realizing that they will be arrested for their crimes.

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lurker111

Propaganda...

Portland protest peaceful after federal presence reduced

Reality...

"Portland protest peaceful" because they're getting sick.

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Joaniepoanie

lol

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Funny, isn't it, Joanie, how Lurker rarely has any evidence--hard facts--on which he/she can base his/her broad (and unsupported) generalizations.

Always sounds like they are being invented out of thin air.

Kate

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bob_cville

> I find it so sickening to hear people call law enforcement, gestapo, stormtroopers, goons!

I find it sickening to see law enforcement behave in a way that accurately calls to mind gestapo, stormtroopers, and goons!

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Today's update on the situation in Portland:

"Federal pullback in Portland immediately brought calm to the anti-racism protests

Large crowds have still been showing up at the federal courthouse in Portland, Oregon, since federal agents disappeared from view Thursday, but there's been a palpable change in atmosphere, and for the first time in weeks, calm. Protesters and members of the Trump administration cited the withdrawal of militarized federal agents and their violent tactics — tear gas, rubber bullets, clubs, legally dubious detentions — as the main reason for the relative peace. With federal agents present, some protesters threw bottles or firecrackers, tried to breach fencing around the courthouse, and shined laser pointers at officers.

[. . .]

Sunday's crowd outside the federal courthouse in downtown Portland, the 67th straight night of anti-racism and police reform protests since the Minneapolis police killed George Floyd, appeared "relatively small," The Oregonian repots. But Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights drew the larger groups that have been congregating since President Trump sent in the federal agents in early July. Oregon State troopers have replaced the federal agents at the courthouse, under an agreement Oregon Gov. Kate Brown (D) reached with the Trump administration.

With federal agents off the streets, the protesters have refocused their efforts on systemic anti-Black racism and their longstanding issues with local policing.

[. . .]

The federal agents aren't gone yet — a "quick reaction force" of some 130 agents are hidden around Portland. But they are no longer the issue. "On Saturday night, as protesters downtown marched peacefully through the streets, they noticed through the windows of a different federal building that Homeland Security agents were standing inside watching them," The New York Times reports. "Some in the crowd stopped to flash lights through the window. One agent appeared to respond by raising a middle finger. Then the crowd continued on."

https://news.yahoo.com/federal-pullback-portland-immediately-brought-052754615.html

--------

Like we said earlier, it was the federal presence that was setting off the fire alarms as far as the peaceful protesters were concerned.

Kate

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Let's have peaceful protesters only protest between 6:00 a.m. until 2 hours before dark. At that point, the peaceful sort can easily be identified as a separate group from the nightime rioters. Let them all wear masks.

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elvis

bob_cville

> I find it so sickening to hear people call law enforcement, gestapo, stormtroopers, goons!


Why paint law enforcement personnel with a broad brush like that, when clearly the bad officers are a minority of law enforcement?

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ronminsouthga

Ron, thousands of peaceful protesters have gathered in Portland during daylight and evening hours. When the anarchists move in is when the peace ends. There have been estimates of around 200 anarchists at the courthouse.

sorry if there are peaceful protesters who we assumed to be anarchist. WHY do you not speak out about them? I will look at your sites

Oregonlive, and the TV stations KATU, KOIN, and KGW.

Oh, about your comment

Wanna talk about South Georgia now? I hear they kill black joggers in your neck of the woods. Toby, You hear? You are now sounding like CNN, MSNBC, CBS. Anonymous source.

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Toby

sorry if there are peaceful protesters who we assumed to be anarchist.
WHY do you not speak out about them? I will look at your sites

I have, numerous times. Are you assuming that because I'm a liberal that I and others like me support anarchists and Antifa? That I support the vandalism and violence they cause in PNW cities? Where did you get that idea? I am a law-abiding citizen so don't get out your broad brush and try to paint me with it.

Wanna talk about South Georgia now? I hear they kill black joggers in
your neck of the woods. Toby, You hear? You are now sounding like CNN,
MSNBC, CBS. Anonymous source.

Ahmaud Arbery. Fortunately there was video or the police and DA would have denied him justice. Yet you want to criticize Portland for their response to lawlessness? Clean up your own backyard first.

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lurker111

Back to the OP...

Like the protesters said,

"The devil made me do it"

Yeah, riiiight.

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Nana H

"Why paint law enforcement personnel with a broad brush like that, when
clearly the bad officers are a minority of law enforcement?"

Probably for the same reason peaceful protesters get broad brushed as rioters and lawless criminals when that faction is a minority. Suits people's agendas.

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mudhouse

This is from today's Portland Police report about last night. They're still arresting people for violence.

Over the course of hours, some members of the group began throwing objects at officers and flashing laser pointers, bright flashlights, and strobe lights in the officers' eyes.

...At about 11:30p.m., members of the crowd entered the Kelly Building property. Officers made an arrest. The officers making the arrests had numerous items thrown at them.

At 11:46p.m., due to criminal activity, the gathering was declared an unlawful assembly. After numerous instructions via loudspeaker, officers moved the crowd to the east. During the dispersal, the officers had paint balloons and other objects thrown at them. One officer was punched. Another was injured in the arm by a protester swinging a stick or baton. Another arrest was made. After moving the crowd several blocks, officers deployed inert smoke to allow officers to safely disengage.

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=251067#cont

I agree this is progress; no broken courthouse windows, no fires set, no mortar-style fireworks with glued ball bearings fired at law enforcement, nobody trying to hit officers with hammers. That's good.

But protesters are still using lasers to try to blind officers, punching them, hitting them with sticks, and throwing objects. Call me crazy, but that's not peaceful protest.

It's absolutely better than trying to burn down the courthouse, but it's not peaceful protest.

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elvis

Nana H

"Why paint law enforcement personnel with a broad brush like that, when
clearly the bad officers are a minority of law enforcement?"

Probably for the same reason peaceful protesters get broad brushed as rioters and lawless criminals when that faction is a minority. Suits people's agendas.

So nana, do you feel that bob-c was suiting his own agenda when he wrote this?

I find it sickening to see law enforcement behave in a way that accurately calls to mind gestapo, stormtroopers, and goons!

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elvis

The OP:

Portland protest peaceful after federal presence reduced

dublinbay z6 (KS)on Sunday

_____________

Last night:

But protesters are still using lasers to try to blind officers, punching them, hitting them with sticks, and throwing objects. Call me crazy, but that's not peaceful protest.

What's up with that, kate?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

As we have repeatedly said, the anarchists move in, AFTER DARK, and start causing turmoil.

The protesters and the anarchists are two different groups, but you anti-protesters are "painting them with the same brush" (to borrow an analogy introduced above) so that you have an excuse to blame the protesters for what the anarchists are doing.

Dirty pool.

Kate

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mudhouse

It's not dirty pool, Kate. In your OP, you said:
"Like the protesters said, it was Trump's storm troopers inserted into the middle of the Portland protests that were causing a lot of the problems there.

In the meantime, let this be a lesson to the authorities. When protesters say the authorities are the problem, maybe they are right."

Federal CBP officers weren't on the scene last night. Do you think the Portland Police authorities were the problem last night, instead?

It's ridiculous to imply that the violence is caused by anyone except the protesters themselves; they're the ones with the lasers and batons and hurled objects. It's way past time to stop coming up with excuses for their illegal acts.

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Ziemia(6a)

Even the Portland police separate out general protesters from those using violent acts.

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Toby

When you start with the premise that all protests against Trump's administration are bad, the protesters themselves must be bad. Look at how the peaceful women's march and its speakers and organizers were attacked.

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mudhouse

Toby, I can only speak for myself, but I've posted many times that I respect the people who participated in the Women's Marches for being serious enough about their beliefs to put their time and money into traveling there to participate, and the record of holding those protests without violent incidents is something other event organizers should aspire to.

Disagreeing with the political views of some of the organizers, or the protesters, is a completely separate issue, and of course my right to disagree with anyone's political views falls under free speech.

To me, because of the extreme violence that has occurred on more nights than not, there's no just comparison between the Women's Marches and what's been going on in Portland for over two months now.

Over and over, I've called out the violence, not the peaceful protesters. I stand up for the right to peaceful assembly. You're right that there are peaceful protesters in Portland. They're out there every day and night too.

But their existence doesn't make the violence blink out of existence. The violence, damage, and destruction is what people are tired of seeing. That's what crosses the line. Those things were not part of the Women's Marches.

Criticism about the viewpoints in those protests is a completely separate issue from criticism about violence.

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elvis

mudhouse

Toby, I can only speak for myself...

Mud, you spoke for me, too. Thank you for your eloquency.

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Toby

But here you didn't differentiate between peaceful protesters and anarchists and antifa:

It's ridiculous to imply that the violence is caused by anyone except
the protesters themselves; they're the ones with the lasers and batons
and hurled objects.

I think accurate language matters because so many on the right have lumped the ordinary citizens--the mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers, teachers, activists, observers, etc.--in with the anarchists and Antifa who attend just about every Portland and Seattle protest to create havoc. It's been escalating the last few years as a response to white supremacists having decided that Portland is a good place to hold their rallies.

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mudhouse

mudhouse: It's ridiculous to imply that the violence is caused by anyone except the protesters themselves; they're the ones with the lasers and batons and hurled objects.

Toby: But here you didn't differentiate between peaceful protesters and anarchists and antifa:

You're right, Toby, I didn't. I chose the word protester because that's what they are, whether they're protesting peacefully or protesting using violence. They're all protesters.

I've tried for months to sidestep gingerly and respectfully around the terminology that left-leaning posters feel is unfair to peaceful protesters. It's pointless and impossible, and I'm done with it.

Protests can turn quickly from peaceful to violent, in the same public square, within the space of minutes. I've asked repeatedly, who are the violent protesters and anarchists? The ones with the rope around the statue? What about the people who only cheer the fires, toppled barriers or falling statues? Are they peaceful protesters? Nobody ever answers my question.

Take your argument up with the Oregon News, KOIN News, USNews, Colorado News, AP, CNN, CBS, or countless other news entities that use the word protesters to refer to people who commit violent acts during a protest:





There is no way for me to know if the people hitting law officers with batons are Antifa, or if they believe in anarchy, or if they're furious about George Floyd, or if they hate all authority in general. I don't care what their reason for the violence is, it's illegal and damaging to our country, and it has to stop.

When I mean peaceful protesters, I say peaceful protesters. If you or others want to insist you can read my mind and discern that I'm implying there's no such thing as peaceful protesters when I use the word "protesters" in connection with violence, have at it.

Just saying, I'm done with this game!

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Stan Areted

I have to say it is quite the case after reading this thread, to see in the end, the deniers of RIOTS and VIOLENCE in Portland have wound up with MUD all over their faces!

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Wow--Portland protesters must bear the burden of protester behavior everywhere else! At least, that seems to be the implication of the collection (above) of headlines from different cities and newspapers/media from across the country.

It is ALL the fault of Portland--is that what is being argued?

Perhaps some local Portland news can give you a better perspective.

-----------------------

"Donald Trump claims Portland protesters would have ‘killed’ Mayor Ted Wheeler: ‘He’s lucky he got away with his life’

An interview that aired on HBO’s “Axios” series Monday night has been making news all over, because of how President Donald Trump did, or didn’t, answer questions from Jonathan Swan, Axios national political correspondent. . . .

When the Trump administration deployed federal officers to Portland in early July, the stated purpose was to protect the downtown federal courthouse, which had become a focus for ongoing protests against police brutality and systemic racism. Local officials objected to the unasked-for presence of federal agents, and officers were criticized for aggressive shows of force and use of tear gas and impact munitions in response to protesters.

Swan’s interview with Trump was taped on Tuesday, July 28, just before Oregon Gov. Kate Brown’s July 29 announcement that there would be a phased withdrawal of federal officers from Portland. As The Oregonian/Oregonlive reported, Brown described the federal officers as “an occupying force” that has “refused accountability and brought strife to our community.”

Trump has consistently defended the presence of federal officers in Portland, with comments that made it sound as if the entire city was engulfed in violent protest and would have been, as Trump wrote on Twitter, “burned and beaten to the ground” if federal forces hadn’t come to the city.

During the “Axios” interview, Trump again made Portland sound like it was overrun with “anarchists” and “agitators.” Swan began the segment by citing the video of federal officers wearing fatigues beating a Navy veteran. (Swan and Trump begin discussing Portland at about the 26:45 mark.) Trump interrupted, calling that “fake news,” to which Swan responded, “It’s not fake news, it’s on video.”

“For 59 days,” Trump said, “these people were anarchists and agitators, and some protesters. But these were anarchists, these people were beating the hell out of the city, they were beating up our federal buildings, and one federal courthouse. We told the police to stop it....and the police wouldn’t do it.”

Swan cited the Justice Department’s Office of the Inspector General launching an investigation into Department of Justice personnel’s use of force in protests in Portland.

“You’re trying now to blame law enforcement instead of anarchists, instead of antifa,” Trump said. “It’s antifa and anarchists that are causing the problem.” Apparently referring to some demonstrators who set fires and threw objects at officers near the courthouse, Trump told Swan that if federal officers hadn’t come to Portland, “You would have your federal courthouse...burned to the ground.”

Swan asked if Trump supported the investigations. “I think antifa should be investigated,” Trump said, asking Swan, “Have you been watching television? Have you been seeing the violence?” Trump went on to talk about watching “NBC fake news” coverage of Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler’s attendance at a downtown Portland protest on July 22, during which Wheeler was among the crowd that was tear-gassed by federal officers. Wheeler was also booed by some protesters who oppose Portland Police crowd control tactics, and Wheeler’s role as the city police commissioner.

Wheeler and his team of security guards remained at the protest for nearly three hours, before eventually departing, and going inside the Portland Building on Southwest Fifth Avenue.

During the “Axios” interview, Trump described the episode as Wheeler “standing out there, and he’s being accosted by the people...he had five security guards, he got out with his life.” Trump criticized the NBC News report, which, according to Trump, made Wheeler look like “he’s standing there, bravely fighting with the people...everything is wonderful. No, he went out there, he’s lucky he got away with his life, ‘cause they would have killed him....NBC News showed it like he’s standing with the people for justice.”

https://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/2020/08/donald-trump-claims-portland-protesters-would-have-killed-mayor-ted-wheeler-hes-lucky-he-got-away-with-his-life.html

----------------------

Now that I've read Trump's spiel about the Portland protests, I see why the Trumpsters out there are so confused about what is actually happening in Portland. As usual, Trump is lying--his interviewer (Swan) keeps trying to correct Trump's mis-statements, but Trump just meanders off in another direction, but continuing with his outrageous and made-up versions of what is going on out there.

My advice to anyone listening to Trump: DO NOT LISTEN. He will just mess up your head.

Kate

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Tito Milian

Oh we’ve seen millions of messed up heads because of Trump. It’s not so much Trump derangement syndrome as it is Trump broke your brain syndrome.

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Tito Milian

The women’s march for as misguided and astroturfed, was at least law abiding, organized and peaceful.

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mudhouse

Wow--Portland protesters must bear the burden of protester behavior everywhere else! At least, that seems to be the implication of the collection (above) of headlines from different cities and newspapers/media from across the country.

No, you misunderstood my comment, Kate.

The headlines show news outlets using the word "protester" along with a violent act. I was responding to Toby's comment about how I did the same thing in a sentence above, as she pointed out the importance of being more accurate in our descriptions about whether protesters are peaceful or violent. (See the two quotes at the top of my comment, from me and from Toby.)

They're all protesters, whether they're peaceful protesters or violent protesters. Using the word protester in association with violence isn't deemed a sin when news outlets do it, so I'm giving myself the same freedom; that's all.

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Toby

You're right, Toby, I didn't. I chose the word protester because
that's what they are, whether they're protesting peacefully or
protesting using violence. They're all protesters.

I've tried for months to sidestep gingerly and respectfully around
the terminology that left-leaning posters feel is unfair to peaceful
protesters. It's pointless and impossible, and I'm done with it.

Protests can turn quickly from peaceful to violent, in the same
public square, within the space of minutes. I've asked repeatedly, who
are the violent protesters and anarchists? The ones with the rope around
the statue? What about the people who only cheer the fires, toppled
barriers or falling statues? Are they peaceful protesters? Nobody ever
answers my question.

Total cop-out, mudhouse. It is unfair. It's just as unfair as when all Trump supporters are lumped in with white supremacists and other racists. It's just as unfair as when all Trump supporters are called uneducated because voters without a college degree swing heavily to Trump. If you don't want to be careful with your language, why should we be careful with ours? I give you the courtesy of calling you what you want to be called. I don't want to stoop to the level of some here who throw labels around at fellow Americans for political purposes. I am not out there protesting, but like thousands of other law-abiding liberals who want justice, I could be. Would you then call me a violent protester just for attending a protest?

Yes, call those individuals violent if they cause harm to a person or cause the
potential for harm to a person or if they cheer on such actions. THEY are the anarchists and the antifa! Someone with a rope around a statue is much different than the one throwing fireworks into the courthouse or pointing lasers at officers. I would cheer a a statue coming down so am I a violent protester? If I was at the protests, I would be the one with the peaceful protesters who tried to stomp out the fires. Until their actions turn from peaceful to violent, they are peaceful protesters.

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Toby

When I mean peaceful protesters, I say peaceful protesters.

Like they are the exception rather than the rule. Thousands attend the protests but they're ignored by media. About two hundred cause the violence. People on the right watch right-wing media and make assumptions that all the protesters have been violent. Look at Ron across the country in Georgia, assuming I have never spoken out against the violence and must support it simply for being liberal. And he's not the only one.

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elvis

Toby

... About two hundred cause the violence.

That's an interesting number, how'd you come up with that?

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Toby

Reports.

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Toby

The suspension of disbelief and willingness to disavow civilization,
law and order are required to maintain the lie that the riots don’t
really exist. Of course they exist but take heart Stan. The riots are
coming to their suburbs too.

I live in the suburbs. We're not as dumb or as motivated by fear of "others" as you hope. Try some other tactic to win this election. How about we talk policy? Maybe you could tell us about Trump's great healthcare plan or how he's going to save us from Tik Tok.

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bob_cville

At no point did I accuse all law enforcement of being goons etc. I have no reliable information concerning what proportion, what fraction of all law enforcement fall into that category;. Like you, I believe them to be a small minority of the overall membership of law enforcement, but (also like you) I have no actual valid factual data to support that belief.

I will say that I have seen (images of) law enforcement personnel acting like goons, stormtroopers, or gestapo, and there is little wiggle room there. If you behave like a goon, or stormtrooper or gestapo, its pretty strong evidence that in your heart that is what you truly are. Examples would be intentionally shooting peaceful protestors in the head with "non-lethal" rounds. Knocking an elderly man to the ground causing him to experience a fractured skull. Firing tear gas to clear an orderly protest well before a curfew began so that the President could hold a photo op on the steps of a church. Intentionally spraying people in the face and eyes from short range with pepper spray. Looking around to see whether people are watching before savagely beating and kicking an already unconscious protestor. Pulling people off the street in the middle of the night, in an unmarked car and following none of the required procedures that make it a legal arrest.

Kneeling on a person's neck for 10 minutes, until that person dies.

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mudhouse

Toby: Would you then call me a violent protester just for attending a protest?

No, of course not.

I am careful with my language, but won't be chastised for doing the same thing that major news outlets do on a regular basis. National news and even local news outlets in Portland, as I demonstrated above, use the word protesters when referring to violent acts.

If I say, "protesters used batons to hit police," that's exactly what it means. Of course it doesn't mean that all of the protesters there hit police with batons, or that all of the protesters there were violent. If you hear things I'm not saying, that's beyond my control.

Portland News headline shown above: Portland protesters topple fence at federal courthouse early Sunday

Do you think Portland News means that all the protesters present toppled the fence? Of course not. They mean the people who toppled the fence were protesters. Police didn't topple the fence, and it didn't fall over by itself.

KOIN News headline shown above: Feds detail charges against protesters for hammer attacks

Do you think KOIN means the Feds are detailing charges because all the protesters used hammers? Of course not. The people facing charges are protesters that used hammers. Police weren't using hammers; protesters were.

Why didn't Portland News and KOIN write headlines saying "Portland anarchists topple fence?" "Feds detail charges against violent protesters for using hammers and lasers?"

Because anarchists makes an assumption that might be incorrect, and the two headlines are completely clear without those modifications. It only upsets people who are looking for ways to be offended, and that's beyond my control.

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cait1

@ Kate

As we have repeatedly said, the anarchists move in, AFTER DARK, and start causing turmoil.

How do you know that? Do they wear name tags? ROFL

Preposterous!

And I seriously hope no one here considers the 'anarchists' RW. We know they are antifa and antifa are commies. Or have leftists replaced 'antifa' with 'anarchists' to confuse and paste a RW moniker on them? Double plus good newspeak! ROFL The only glitch is that people with brains that can actually think and reason see through that.

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Toby

In those examples, the news is reporting specific acts of violence and vandalism. In context of the sentence, it's clear they are referring to those who topple fences and those who committed hammer attacks.

Who is Ron referring to here? You can tell he doesn't believe that there are peaceful protesters in Portland. Elvis doesn't believe it either. Why do they have that impression?

ronminsouthga

Any videos of the peaceful protest ?would love to see them.

elvis

Yes: real, recent, and credible.

lurker111

The peaceful protests are so peaceful, they go berserk.

lurker111

There have been plenty of peaceful protests

Old joke.

lurker111

Propaganda...

Portland protest peaceful after federal presence reduced

Reality...

"Portland protest peaceful"...(sure)...after realizing that they will be arrested for their crimes.

These comments, and dozens like them, were liked by other Trump supporters.

Elvis liked most if not all of those posts so let me finish with this gem:

elvis

bob_cville

> I find it so sickening to hear people call law enforcement, gestapo, stormtroopers, goons!

Why paint law enforcement personnel with a broad brush
like that, when clearly the bad officers are a minority of law
enforcement?

Yes, Trumpers, why paint all protesters with a broad brush like that when clearly the bad protesters are a minority?

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Toby

cait1

@ Kate

As we have repeatedly said, the anarchists move in, AFTER DARK, and start causing turmoil.

How do you know that? Do they wear name tags? ROFL

Preposterous!

If not anarchists, who do you think is causing turmoil?

Remember when the right wing only said we were Antifa sympathizers? Now they're saying we're all Antifa anarchists! Oh, for the good old days!

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cait1

Remember when the right wing only said we were Antifa sympathizers?

source? And it better not be from one of the lying leftwing media b/c I believe nothing from them.

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mudhouse

Toby, you objected to this sentence, because I didn't differentiate between peaceful protesters and anarchists and Antifa:

Mudhouse said: It's ridiculous to imply that the violence is caused by anyone except the protesters themselves; they're the ones with the lasers and batons and hurled objects.

And you said the headline examples I listed were " reporting specific acts of violence and vandalism. In context of the sentence, it's clear they are referring to those who topple fences and those who committed hammer attacks."

It was also clear in my sentence above that I wasn't referring to peaceful protesters. (Why would peaceful protesters have lasers, batons, and objects to hurl?)

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Ziemia(6a)

Generally {sic sic} - there is a different word applied to them besides *protesters*. Perhaps simply a modifier is needed.

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mudhouse

Who is Ron referring to here? You can tell he doesn't believe that there are peaceful protesters in Portland. Elvis doesn't believe it either. Why do they have that impression?

I'm not very good at mind reading, to be honest, and It's kind of weird you're asking me to explain what other people think.

I can guess that they're skeptical, as I am, about the OP's statement that the Portland protests are peaceful now that the federal presence has been reduced, and stating that "it was Trump's storm troopers inserted into the middle of the Portland protests that were causing a lot of the problems there."

And you know what? They're not entirely peaceful, as today's report from the Portland police showed, and that's why I posted above: But protesters are still using lasers to try to blind officers, punching them, hitting them with sticks, and throwing objects. Call me crazy, but that's not peaceful protest.

When the OP makes a blanket statement saying Portland protests are peaceful because the Feds aren't involved, and then the police reports list violent acts that are still happening, people are going to doubt that the OP's blanket statement is correct.

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elvis

You would have made a very good preschool teacher, Mud. So much patience and tact. Sigh, I admire that.

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Toby

cait1

Remember when the right wing only said we were Antifa sympathizers?

source? And it better not be from one of the lying leftwing media b/c I believe nothing from them.

Source is Trump supporters on Hot Topics.

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mudhouse

Last night, more violence from protesters, breaking into buildings and setting multiple fires, even though the federal CPB officers aren't on the streets.

That's odd; I thought the federal officers were the ones causing the problem. How, then, can the violence be continuing? More fires set. How is that possible, if the feds are the problem, as the OP states?

And look, the Portland Tribune is using the term "protesters" instead of anarchists or Antifa. Why would they do that? Maybe because it's an acceptable way to use the word?

**********************************************************

Protesters vandalized and set fire to the Portland Police Association headquarters in North Portland early Wednesday. Police then declared a riot and dispersed the crowd outside the building in the 1800 block of North Lombard.

...The riot was declared about an hour later once a group of protesters breached the PPA building, causing damage and setting fire to the building. The majority of the crowd had left the area by 3:30.

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/475931-384672-protesters-set-fire-to-police-union-heaquarters

***************************************************

And more details from the Portland Police about last night's protests:

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=261069#cont

At 8:45 p.m., ...a couple hundred people began marching towards the Portland Police Association Office located on the 1800 block of North Lombard Street. The group...began blocking all lanes of traffic on North Lombard Street at North Campbell Avenue.

...a large fire was started on North Lombard Street. Members of the group started vandalizing the Portland Police Association office with graffiti while others attempted to pull the plywood off of the doors and windows.

...a couple members of the group began an effort to break in to the Portland Police Association office.

...the group had set up several barricades and fences along North Lombard Street. The group continued to tamper with the doors in an effort to break in to the Portland Police Association office and several fires were started in the streets and around the building.

...the gathering was declared an unlawful assembly at 12:02 a.m. ...As officers attempted to secure the Portland Police Association office, members of the group began throwing projectiles such as rocks and bricks striking several officers.

...several shots were heard on the 7000 block of North Mobile Avenue and upon investigation a vehicle was found struck by gunfire.

...the group breached the doors to the Portland Police Association office and entered the building. The group caused damage inside of the office and set fire to the building. Due to the ongoing serious criminal behavior a riot was declared at 1:23 a.m.

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lurker111

"We come in peace"

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mudhouse

It's all the Stormtroopers...

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cait1

@ Toby

Source is Trump supporters on Hot Topics.

Ahhh, I see... of course leftists sympathize with antifa. But antifa aren't anarchists. Two different beasts. Antifa are communists. Anarchists are not.

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lurker111

Cool, I didn't know that.

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Toby

Here's an article that explains the history of Portland police and why the protests continue after Trump's withdrawal.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/08/trump-agents-may-leave-portland-but-police-brutality-wont.html#comments

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Ziemia(6a)

"Antifa are communists. Anarchists are not."

😹😹😹😹😹😹😹

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