trump says "Australia has huge problems"with covid19

youngquinn_gw

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/as-us-cases-soar-trump-says-australia-has-tremendous-problems-20200731-p55h8e.html

This man is a master of pulling the wool over peoples eyes.

he is saying that the virus has "come back" to Australia.


He is correct......well a little bit.


The virus is back in Victoria...not in Australia. it is in one state.

lets get the statistics shall we?


America 150000 dead and 4 and a half million cases

Australia 196 dead and around 15000 cases


now USA has around 15 times the population....and yet the USA death s are 750 times higher.

he is trying to say




Look the virus is no worse here than anywhere else (meaning America) see its happening everywhere you cant blame me !!


which of course is absolute rubbish...


there is another large difference . The Federal and state governments in Australia , even tho on opposite sides of the fence are actually (if somewhat grudgingly)working together to bring the virus under control.

We are in an enforced lockdown.....we have compulsory masks....we have called in the Australian Defence Forces to help. there are enforceable penalties for breaking either rule. There is a $300 payment for those waiting to get test results if they have no sickleave and a $1500 payment for those who have the virus so they can stay home while they are sick if they have no sickleave. For EVERY person diagnosed with this virus.. starting from a few days ago...the ADF will knock on their door...if they are not home they will be referred to police but also they will be asked if they need any food or meds etc and the ADF will arrange to get it to them...

I dont appreciate the Bozo in the White House trying to gain political mileage by telling half truths and generally manipulating the information to present it in a way that (if people dont bother to check)that makes him look better


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arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

"Increase in Australia" 30 times! Never let a Salesman near stats!

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jmm1837

It's simple diversion, Arthur. A lot of Trump supporters seem to think that what the US is going through is what everyone is going through, and that the criticisms of Trump are just from disgruntled political opponents. Of course it's not true - obviously, living in Victoria, I'm not happy with the resurgence here , but compared to what's going on in the States, this is a spot fire. And we're angry with obvious governance failures, and demanding answers: Texans, Georgians and Floridians, on the other hand, seem to be complacent.

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haydayhayday

"huge problems"?

Those are not his words.

If you want to nitpick.

"Look the virus is no worse here than anywhere else (meaning America) see its happening everywhere you cant blame me !!"

Those are not his words. If you want to nitpick.

As a matter of fact, those are your words.

"which of course is absolute rubbish"

Those are your words, too.

And these are your words, too:

"I dont appreciate the Bozo in the White House trying to gain political mileage by telling half truths and generally manipulating the information to present it in a way that (if people dont bother to check)that makes him look better"

Looks more like the Aussies are doing just that.

Hay

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haydayhayday

He's right. There is a resurgence happening.

It's a point I like to make, too. Which is that, we're basically in the first half of the first inning of a ball game and you want to make statements about who is going to win the game.

The horses have just broken out of the start gate and you've already declared the winner!



Hay

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haydayhayday

arthurm:


"Increase in Australia" 30 times! Never let a Salesman near stats!


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

Trump:

"Since the beginning of June, daily new cases have increased by a factor of ....nearly 30 times in Australia"
The Facts from the chart at the link:

On June 1, in Australia, 9 cases.

On June 2, in Australia, 17 cases

On June 15, in Australia 15 cases....

17 looks to be the highest or close to it in the "beginning of June".

A little mathematics...

17 X 30 is 510.

Just now

arthurm:

"Increase in Australia" 30 times! Never let a Salesman near stats!"

What are you selling?


Hay



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haydayhayday

"The virus is back in Victoria...not in Australia. it is in one state.

lets get the statistics shall we?"

Sure, why not. I like statistics.

IF this is all or mostly in Victoria....

The population of Victoria is about 6.359 million.

The population of the USA is about 330 million.

More than 50 times more people than in Victoria.

50 X 602 is about 30,000 new cases in the same proportion as the USA.

Nothing to write home about.

I think the USA is running at around 60,000 new cases per day right now.




Hay

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lurker111

Australia doesn't know what they have. They declared victory too soon.

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haydayhayday

Meanwhile,

Israel.

Japan

Hong Kong:

Hay

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haydayhayday



Hay

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Cookie8

I think resurgence will happen anywhere where your guard is let down. It's a virus that's still present and outbreaks will happen. As soon as you start with too many large gatherings and no PPE, it will be back. This virus is so far spread that it's just here.

I do hate world leaders making comparisons to other countries as you never know which way this virus will turn. Focus on your own people.

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Cookie8


"Speaking of facts, is that what they said?"

LOL, I wouldn't be surprised if there was audio of it!

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haydayhayday

Cookie:

"LOL, I wouldn't be surprised if there was audio of it!"


"Just the facts, ma'am."

Too much fantasy around here already.


I'd love to hear the audio.

Maybe we can get HG to find it for us.

Hay

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colleenoz

Hay, since you seem to have totally missed arthurm's point, let me state it in simpler terms.

Yes, Australia has a resurgence.

Yes, the increase is 30 times.

But, when the baseline is so low, the factorial increase is bound to be artificially large. After all, if you only have one case, and then you get one more case, the cases have doubled.

Other things to note:

US population- 326,600,000

US Covid-19 cases- 4,495,224 or roughly 1 in 72 Americans

US deaths- 152,070, or roughly 1 in 30 of those infected

Australian population- 23,200,000

Australian Covid-19 cases- 16,906 or roughly 1 in 1372 Australians

Australian deaths- 197 or roughly 1 in 86 of those infected

I think Australia's still looking pretty good compared to the US.

And where the resurgence is, has been locked down again and we'll get it back under control, unlike places in the US which are having a resurgence.

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haydayhayday

"Hay, since you seem to have totally missed arthurm's point, let me state it in simpler terms.

Yes, Australia has a resurgence.

Yes, the increase is 30 times."

Good.

So, Trump is right.

Glad we're finished with this nonsense.

Hay

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youngquinn_gw

strange ..... hay



you have told me "Huge Problems" were not his words....OKAY "tremendous problems" were his words. Where I come from they mean the same .

Your little attempt to "manipulate" the figures means nothing. yes the cases are mostly in Victoria.....BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT THERE ARE NO FURTHER CASES IN AUSTRALIA...and trump himself uses the term "Australia" therefore , you must divide the figures by the Australian population NOT the Victorian one.

we are a FEDERATION not a collection of individual states!


oh and further info on how we are attacking the problem......NURSING homes ! sick resident have been transferred to hospital where they are being properly cared for...lots of staff now have to isolate for 14 days...so we have hospital nurses working to care for resident s in nursing homes and ADF nurses also called in.


AMERICA under trump has the WORST death rate anD infection rate in the world. DEAL WITH IT hay

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

I just wonder what tRump's term would be to describe the situation in the US

so far, every thing is dandy according to orange Karen, as long as everyone takes their hydrychloro-thingy

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youngquinn_gw

Hay you apprently didnt read this the last time it was posted (a few minutes ago) so I will repost it...hopefully you will understand it this time

cheers

"

US Covid-19 cases- 4,495,224 or roughly 1 in 72 Americans

US deaths- 152,070, or roughly 1 in 30 of those infected

Australian population- 23,200,000

Australian Covid-19 cases- 16,906 or roughly 1 in 1372 Australians

Australian deaths- 197 or roughly 1 in 86 of those infected

I think Australia's still looking pretty good compared to the US." from Cookie

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haydayhayday

"AMERICA under trump has the WORST death rate anD infection rate in the world. DEAL WITH IT hay"

More fantasy.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Hay

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haydayhayday

Notice:

Tea time!

Enjoy your fantasies.

Hay

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youngquinn_gw

did I exaggerate? oh are you only the third or fourth worst in the world? You must feel so much better about that. laughing over here

My whole point in posting this is to point out that the Bozo in the White House is trying to manipulate those Americans who have not the means or the will to investigate his statements for themselves !

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youngquinn_gw

at least I am reading what you write and responding to it. You simply chose to ignore anything that is too hard for you to deal with


Australian deaths per million of population 8

American deaths per million of population 469

hmmm. is that clear enough for you ????

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arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

I should apologise to all salespersons. Should of said Stats used by a person who uses words like tremendous, huge and so on as part of his daily dialogue are likely to be misleading.



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lurker111

How does puny little Australia get off on comparing itself to the greatness of the USA? How sad for them. We have sparsely populated areas that I'm sure are better off than Australia. They are irrelevant.

Is Australia having pandemic protests?

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jmm1837

Relax, guys. Anyone who looks at the same stats Hay does can see that Australia has around 6800 active cases, while Texas, with a similar population, has over 165,000 and Florida, with a slightly smaller population, has 410,000 and climbing. Heck, the state of Tennessee, which is about the same size as Victoria, has 37,000 cases,. Does Trump even know what's going on in the US? He couldn't be bothered wearing a mask on his visit to Texas but he thinks there's a tremendous problem in Aus? He, and Hay, have kind of lost any real sense of proportion.


Oh, and Australia is going through the second wave. The US hasn't made it out of the first.

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gettingnowhere

How does puny little Australia get off on comparing itself to the greatness of the USA? How sad for them. Yes, USA is great, but how come it is not leading the world with regard to flattening the curve. Oh, Trump compared his country to ’puny’ Australia, now why would he compare his ‘great country’ to ‘puny’ Australia?

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youngquinn_gw

"Is Australia having pandemic protests?" Lurker the answer is no.

we are attacking the pandemic in an Intelligent , co operative manner....with the full participation of all levels of government....when you want to know how America can actually BE great....we are happy to give lessons.

smiley face smiley face

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Stan Areted

The rubbish doesn't appear to be President TRUMP's words, does it?

youngquinn:

"I dont appreciate the Bozo in the White House trying to gain political mileage by telling half truths and generally manipulating the information to present it in a way that (if people dont bother to check)that makes him look better"

Some of us don't appreciate the bozos everywhere trying to gain political or feel good mileage by telling half truths and generally maniupulating the information to present it in a way (if people don't bother to check) that makes President Trump look bad.

As they say, fixed it.

Prickly Aussies can't take the heat? LOL

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lurker111

We don't need any advice. The crats will go against everything we try. We know what the problem is.

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youngquinn_gw

Stan Areted its not possible to make trump look worse.

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lurker111

Looks are deceiving. Trump has done more than anyone else to try to beat this. The crats are looking pretty bad at this point. Pro-virus and anti-American.

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Cookie8

"Oh, and Australia is going through the second wave. The US hasn't made it out of the first."

Plus their citizens will be provided healthcare now and for the heart and lung damage it leaves in the future. This virus is no joke. Good to see countries taking care of its citizens.

"I think Australia's still looking pretty good compared to the US." from Cookie"

This was colleenoz. Just correcting as I stated I didn't like the world leaders comparing - I guess, it would come across hypocritical to have it hanging like that.


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colleenoz

Interesting choice of word, Stan. When you say “makes President Trump look worse”, by implication you admit he already looks bad.

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youngquinn_gw

sorry for that Cookie. I stand corrected

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leona_2008

Dear Australia, on behalf of those of us here who do not support trump, I apologize. Please know that he and the ones here who take up for him no matter what do not represent the rest off us.

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HamiltonGardener

I think “flattening the curve” is a key point here.

We knew back in Feb/March that this virus was in the world now, and there is no containing it. You won’t eradicate this virus without either everyone getting it, or a vaccine. Even then, it will likely just become part of the range of endemic viruses to which humans have Immune responses in their repertoire.

Flattening the curve means to keep The hospitals and doctors from becoming overwhelmed, which Australia is doing very well.



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lurker111

If we contain and punish the crats the way Australia contains and punishes their prisoners, then our problems will vanish.

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colleenoz

Exactly what does that mean, lurker?

Actually, generally speaking, Australia treats its prisoners humanely. I guess you must mean if you treat the Democrats humanely, the US’ problems will vanish. I’ll go for that.

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lurker111

Exactly what does that mean, lurker?

If we force them to stay home and punish them with huge fines, then we should get this under control in no time. It's up to our governors to stand up and get this done. Abbott will probably pass covid cuomo today. Of course, covid cuomo is responsible for not locking down NY and allowing their residents to spread it across the country.

We have crazy, uncooperative crats. Good luck with containing them.

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Annie Deighnaugh


I just don't understand how people can argue about the data. It is what it is.

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colleenoz

Abbott? What rock have you been under for the past five years?

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youngquinn_gw

sigh Ann did you like the pretty red lines????? draw the graphs to the same scale dear.. and read the words underneath each one.

USA total cases4426967 recent new day 65256

Austalia total cases 16283 recent new day 428.

THEN come back and talk to me

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youngquinn_gw

Leona you have nothing to appologise for you are not responsible for self entitled people.

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lurker111

The so called data is incomplete and only includes those who go to get tested. It's much worse than you think.

Abbott? What rock have you been under for the past five years?

What on earth are you talking about?

sigh Ann did you like the pretty red lines????? draw the
graphs to the same scale dear.. and read the words underneath each
one.

lolol. :^)

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Annie Deighnaugh

youngquinn, a) I didn't draw the graphs...they are from endcoronavirusnow.org.

b) the graphs are accurate, the charts show the pattern of disease acquisition over time and the data below the chart shows the level

So why are you attacking me?

Australia's incidence is rising again after having been flat for months though the overall incidence rate remains very low.

US's incidence never declined, acquisition rates have been high and rising rapidly and only most recently show signs of heeling over, but still at a very high level.

The data is the data...it is what it is. Stop attacking the messenger.

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haydayhayday

collenoz:

"Abbott? What rock have you been under for the past five years?"

Lurker:

"What on earth are you talking about?"

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


The world does not revolve around Australia.


"Anthony John Abbott,... is a former Australian politician who served as the 28th Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015 and leader of the Liberal Party from 2009 to 2015."

"Gregory Wayne Abbott (born November 13, 1957) is an American attorney serving as the 48th and current governor of Texas since 2015"




Hay

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lurker111

Thanks Hay. Yeah, I have no interest in foreign politics. Doesn't even register in my world. Nothing could be more irrelevant, especially foreign liberal politicians. Of course, I was talking about our sorry excuse of a governor.

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how2girl


lurker111

Australia doesn't know what they have. They declared victory too soon.

Wrong. “Victory” was never declared, there were always warnings of a 2nd wave.

Just to reiterate, although it’s been stated many times above, the “surge“ is isolated to 1 state in Australia and if people were smart & did as they were told - aka when you get tested go home & isolate until you have (negative) results, if you have symptoms get tested, if you have a positive test isolate at home & make damn sure you’re there when you get checked on. If you’re in hotel quarantine don’t fraternise with anybody or leave the quarantine area. If you live in Victoria, stay home, wear a damn mask when you go out, wash your hands, use hand sanitiser, don’t touch your face, socially distance etc etc - then it “may“ not have happened.

Yes, we have nit wits here too, just a lot less of them. Those who refuse to wear masks, those who think it’s a hoax, those who think it’s no worse than the flue, a particular billionaire fool who thinks the border into one state should be opened for his benefit.

Your President just loves to bloviate, so much winning, so much whining.

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lurker111

Don't leave out the biggest idiots of all times...The pandemic protesters. ^^^

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how2girl

The ones protesting over the response to the pandemic or protesters in general?

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lurker111

Do you really need to ask? It's obvious to everyone. I'll go ahead and spell it out...The ones rioting in the streets, screaming BLM and defund the police. That group of morons.

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haydayhayday

Annie:

"The data is the data...it is what it is. Stop attacking the messenger."



Trump:

"Since the beginning of June, daily new cases have increased by a factor of ....nearly 30 times in Australia"


Youngquinn:

"My whole point in posting this is to point out that the Bozo in the White House is trying to manipulate those Americans who have not the means or the will to investigate his statements for themselves !"


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The whole point was to attack the messenger!

Hay

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haydayhayday

The data is the data...it is what it is


Totally irrelevant to THE Point!!!

Hay



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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

you have told me "Huge Problems" were not his words....OKAY "tremendous problems" were his words. Where I come from they mean the same .

Anywhere else it's "tremendous problems" back here in the US it's just some "embers".

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haydayhayday

Youngquinn:


"......trying to manipulate those Americans who have not the means or the will to investigate his statements for themselves !"

Funny.

And you?

Funny.

Hay

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how2girl

lurker111

Do you really need to ask? It's obvious to everyone. I'll go ahead and spell it out...The ones rioting in the streets, screaming BLM and defund the police. That group of morons.


So only a very particular group of protesters, whose public demonstration of their opposition to the treatment of POC you don’t align with, got it!

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Annie Deighnaugh

So funny....the administration was making exactly the opposite argument a few months ago when people were warning that US cases were doubling...they said, no, no, you need to look at the level of cases...the fake news is exaggerating when in fact the cases go from only 5 to 10 and they hawk that it's doubling.

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Stan Areted

lurker:

"If we contain and punish the crats the way Australia contains and punishes their prisoners, then our problems will vanish."


They sure would.

Canada could clean up it's treatment of Native Americans, lots of beams to remove!

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kadefol

Maybe if trump would focus on what's happening in this country and how to fix it, instead of pointing at everyone else, the US situation would improve.

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lurker111

So only a very particular group of protesters, whose public
demonstration of their opposition to the treatment of POC you don’t
align with, got it!

Whatever you need to believe. Don't let reality get in the way. How are POC treated differently? Smollett.

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blfenton

Youngquin - the snap shot of the stats that Hay posted way up thread was cherry-picked for timing.

The US could also clean up it's treatment of Native Americans. Doctors without Borders were called in to help the Navajo Nation with it's covid 19 outbreak.

ETA - Here's the link for the current stats from the same one that Hay posted. It gives a running tally as the stats are reported through the day

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

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haydayhayday

blfenton:

"Youngquin - the snap shot of the stats that Hay posted way up thread was cherry-picked for timing.

The US could also clean up it's treatment of Native Americans. Doctors without Borders were called in to help the Navajo Nation with it's covid 19 outbreak.

ETA - Here's the link for the current stats from the same one that Hay posted. It gives a running tally as the stats are reported through the day

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/"


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I love this forum.

Always good for a laugh.

I'm never disappointed.

"Youngquin - the snap shot of the stats that Hay posted way up thread was cherry-picked for timing."

....

"ETA - Here's the link for the current stats from the same one that Hay posted. "

Thanks for the laugh.

Those "snap shots" I posted this morning were the "current stats" this morning when I posted them.

I'm never disappointed!!!

I love it!

Hay

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haydayhayday

blfenton:

"Youngquin - the snap shot of the stats that Hay posted way up thread was cherry-picked for timing."

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Funny.

This morning:

"Current stats":

Hay

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haydayhayday

blfenton:

"Youngquin - the snap shot of the stats that Hay posted way up thread was cherry-picked for timing."

////////////////////////////////////////////////

Funny:

This morning:




"Current stats":

Hay

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haydayhayday

Youngquinn:

"......trying to manipulate those Americans who have not the means or the will to investigate his statements for themselves !"

Funny.

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maifleur03

Jingoism at it's finest. My county is the best in the world even as it goes down the tubes but give a cheer because that is what good little boys and girls do.

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KarenS, NYC

Why do you folks even bother?

DJT shouldn't be discussing ANY country's Covid business, he should be focused on us, THIS COUNTRY, no one else.

More deflection from the 150,000+ dead & his unending incompetence.

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lurker111

Trump and his supporters don't have one track minds.

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HU-274840647

Or even one mind.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)


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bleusblue2

^^^ that was too easy

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jmm1837

What a weird conversation. Does anyone reading these charts not see that the daily new case numbers for Australia are numbered in increments of 200? The comparable charts for the US are numbered in increments of 25,000. The situation in Australia, troublesome though it is, isn't even close to being comparable with the situation in the US. Anyone with basic arithmetic should be able to recognize that.

And I have no idea what semi incoherent allusions to prisoners and protesters mean. The protests here did not cause this; mismanagement of quarantine hotels seems to have been the match that set this off.

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terezosa / terriks

Anyone with basic arithmetic should be able to recognize that.

And therein lies the problem

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isabellagracepan

There is no comparison between the outbreak in Australia and that in the U.S. Anyone trying to disparage Australia is just coming across as petty and mean. Australia has done a much better job of controlling the virus, but that doesn't mean that they are out of the woods. The new outbreak in Victoria, Australia clearly demonstrates how contagious coronavirus is, and indicates that all of us need to be very careful about not relaxing our social distancing and mask wearing.

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haydayhayday

JMM:


"What a weird conversation. Does anyone reading these charts not see that the daily new case numbers for Australia are numbered in increments of 200? The comparable charts for the US are numbered in increments of 25,000. The situation in Australia, troublesome though it is, isn't even close to being comparable with the situation in the US. Anyone with basic arithmetic should be able to recognize that."

Funny.

I've got plenty of basic arithmetic skills. That's not an issue.

Trump, if you go look at what HE actually said was not talking about anything more than the resurgence that's going on around the world.


Not only do I have plenty of basic arithmetic skills, but I'm pretty good at reading and hearing the English language, too:

"This resurgence in cases is occurring throughout large portions of our planet — in Japan, China, Australia, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Hong Kong — places where they thought they'd really done great," he said.


"It came back, and in a couple of cases came back very strongly. The virus was said to be under control but new cases have risen very significantly once again. So when you think somebody is doing well, sometimes you have to hold your decision on that. You have to hold your statements."

I'm not interested in talking about your fantasies and the problems you're having with your strawman.


Funny.

Really funny.

I'm never disappointed.

Hay

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haydayhayday

terrezosa:

Anyone with basic arithmetic should be able to recognize that.

"And therein lies the problem"

Trust me, that's not the problem.

I know what "resurgence" means. That's what we're talking about.

You and your various strawmen are all over the place.


Funny.


Hay


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haydayhayday

Isabella:

"There is no comparison between the outbreak in Australia and that in the U.S. Anyone trying to disparage Australia is just coming across as petty and mean."

Easy enough to fix the problem: Get yourself a new strawman!

Funny.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Here you go,

In the English language, that's called a "resurgence".

No matter the levels.

Funny.

Got any more strawmen you want to try out?

Hay


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haydayhayday

Youngquinn:

"......trying to manipulate those Americans who have not the means or the will to investigate his statements for themselves !"

Funny.

I love this forum.

Never disappointed.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Right off the bat in the OP, Youngquinn feels the need to bring in her strawman:

"he is trying to say


Look the virus is no worse here than anywhere else (meaning America) see its happening everywhere you cant blame me !!

which of course is absolute rubbish..."

Except that's Youngquinn's strawman saying that, not Trump.

Funny.

Hay




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haydayhayday



Most of the people I know, even those without any basic arithmetic skills, would, I suspect, call that pattern a "resurgence".

"resurgent:

adjective

rising or tending to rise again; "

Does the word mean something different in Australia?

Hay

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haydayhayday


Youngquinn;

"sigh Ann did you like the pretty red lines????? draw the graphs to the same scale dear.. and read the words underneath each one.

USA total cases4426967 recent new day 65256

Austalia total cases 16283 recent new day 428.

THEN come back and talk to me"

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Just for fun, go directly to the source: the video in YOUR linked story.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/as-us-cases-soar-trump-says-australia-has-tremendous-problems-20200731-p55h8e.html

Then, come back with a direct quote...not your fantasy version.... of Trump and I'd love to talk to you or anyone else about what Trump actually said.

Leave your strawmen at home.

The same offer to you, Jmm.

And terrezosa

And Isabella.

And anyone else. Especially those of you who "liked' these poster's comments.

I'm here when you want to discuss what Trump actually said.

Join me if you want.

Funny.
Hay


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jmm1837

"In the English language, that's called a "resurgence".

No matter the levels.

Funny.

Got any more strawmen you want to try out?"


No one has said there isn't a resurgence of the virus in Australia, or for that matter in the other countries Trump listed in his speech. That is a classic straw man argument, actually, in which you are providing stats to disprove a claim that no one made, while ignoring the actual point that was being made.


The resurgence in Australia is nowhere near the scale of what is going on in the US currently. That is a fact and that is the point.


And if you want some more figures, here are some that address the point directly. It is commonly understood that a high rate of positive test results indicates widespread community circulation of the disease and insufficient testing for the scale of the outbreak. 10% positive is considered to be the minimum level for safe reopening, and most experts suggest 5% as a safer number. At the moment, according to Johns Hopkins, California is tracking at 7.0%; Florida at 19.4%; Texas at 11.5%, Georgia at 12.6%, Arizona at 22.0%. In Victoria, the center of the Australian outbreak, the numbers are running between 1 and 3%. A totally different level of community transmission than that occurring in the US.


Trump's speech misrepresented the situation abroad (OMG look at those increases and ignore the low base) to divert attention from his on going failure to get the disease anywhere close to being under control in the US (look over there, not over here).

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haydayhayday

"No one has said there isn't a resurgence of the virus in Australia, or for that matter in the other countries Trump listed in his speech."

So, we agree.

Trump was right.

Good.

Hay

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haydayhayday

"while ignoring the actual point that was being made."

Funny.

Hay

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blfenton

I read his speech (or tried to anyway) and he said that a number of countries have had a resurgence of 35X (Israel - "that;s 35X" he had to restate), Australia 30X, and I'm surprised that he didn't say that the US's resurgence was only 3X from the beginning of June to now. Regardless of the fact that it went from 23,000 new cases to 66,000 (and still counting for today). And yes, no mention of base numbers. He managed to slap a bunch of states down as well. Nothing but deflection.

jmm - trying living next door to this crap and hoping and hoping and hoping that the border isn't opened anytime soon.

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haydayhayday

"The resurgence in Australia is nowhere near the scale of what is going on in the US currently. That is a fact and that is the point."


So, why bother quoting Trump in the article,

"This resurgence in cases is occurring throughout large portions of our planet — in Japan, China, Australia, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Hong Kong — places where they thought they'd really done great," he said.

"It came back, and in a couple of cases came back very strongly. The virus was said to be under control but new cases have risen very significantly once again. So when you think somebody is doing well, sometimes you have to hold your decision on that. You have to hold your statements."


if the next statement, like the Aussie reporter in her very next words are;


"Trump's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successive polls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."

Strange way to make a point: Start with a random video and quotes that have nothing to do with your point.


Hay




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haydayhayday

The sky is blue.

Stars come out at night.

I just ate some cheese doodles and beer.

"Hay's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."


That's how Aussie's make a point.

Funny.

The beer and cheese doodles were nice.

Hay's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."


Hay


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haydayhayday

Usually if someone posts a video and quotes it, you'd think they were actually wanting to talk about what was in the video and what was actually said.

But, not the Aussies.

Anything at all will work to lead into bashing Trump.

Hay's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."

Funny.

Hay



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ubro(2a)

AMERICA under trump has the WORST death rate anD infection rate in the world. DEAL WITH IT hay

bolding is mine, this deserved to be repeated.


ETA

Anything at all will work to lead into bashing Trump.

Maybe that is because most of what Trump seems to do is worth bashing

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haydayhayday

Youngquinn:

"My whole point in posting this is to point out that the Bozo in the White House is trying to manipulate those Americans who have not the means or the will to investigate his statements for themselves !"

Strange way the Aussie's have of making a point.


Youngquinn's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."

Hay

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haydayhayday

ubro:

AMERICA under trump has the WORST death rate anD infection rate in the world. DEAL WITH IT hay

"bolding is mine, this deserved to be repeated."

Except it's a lie.

Why do lies deserve to be repeated?


Ubro's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."


Funny

Hay


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haydayhayday

AMERICA under trump has the WORST death rate anD infection rate in the world. DEAL WITH IT hay

bolding is mine, this deserved to be repeated.


Hay's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."


Hay



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haydayhayday

Ubro:

"Maybe that is because most of what Trump seems to do is worth bashing"

Ubro's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis.

Hay



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HamiltonGardener

Such fussing, you guys.

Australia is doing well right now. The hospitals have plenty of capacity.

As soon as they hit full capacity, then you can say Australia hasn’t flattened the curve.

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haydayhayday


blfenton:

I read his speech (or tried to anyway) and he said that a number of countries have had a resurgence of 35X (Israel - "that;s 35X" he had to restate), Australia 30X...

Oh, good, we agree.

Just like Trump stated.

blfenton's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis.

Hay


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haydayhayday

I think we all agree?

Trump was right when he said:


"This resurgence in cases is occurring throughout large portions of our planet — in Japan, China, Australia, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Hong Kong — places where they thought they'd really done great," he said.

"It came back, and in a couple of cases came back very strongly. The virus was said to be under control but new cases have risen very significantly once again. So when you think somebody is doing well, sometimes you have to hold your decision on that. You have to hold your statements."


And this is also true:


"Trump's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successive polls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."


Hay

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haydayhayday

Strange way to "make a point."

For a while I was fooled into thinking we might actually be talking about something that Trump actually said in the lead up.

Guess not.


Hay

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haydayhayday

Hay

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haydayhayday


Youngquinn:

"he is saying that the virus has "come back" to Australia.

He is correct"

Hay

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bleusblue2

youngquinn_gw

....< >....

AMERICA under trump has the WORST death rate anD infection rate in the world. DEAL WITH IT hay

~~~~

We don't need to look at statistics to tell us how bad it is in the US -- seen any freezer trucks in Victoria lately? You know -- to handle the excess number of dead bodies?

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haydayhayday

bleusblue:

AMERICA under trump has the WORST death rate anD infection rate in the world. DEAL WITH IT hay

~~~~

We don't need to look at statistics to tell us how bad it is in the US -- seen any freezer trucks in Victoria lately? You know -- to handle the excess number of dead bodies?


So, now you post a lie and then post something that has no relationship to the lie.

What's the point this time around?

Hay

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haydayhayday

AMERICA under trump has the WORST death rate anD infection rate in the world. DEAL WITH IT hay

bolding is mine, this deserved to be repeated.


Hay's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successivepolls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."


Hay

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haydayhayday

HamiltonGardener

Such fussing, you guys.

Australia is doing well right now. The hospitals have plenty of capacity.

As soon as they hit full capacity, then you can say Australia hasn’t flattened the curve.


Might find a few bumps in the road along the way.


Trump was right:

"This resurgence in cases is occurring throughout large portions of our planet — in Japan, China, Australia, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Hong Kong — places where they thought they'd really done great," he said.

"It came back, and in a couple of cases came back very strongly. The virus was said to be under control but new cases have risen very significantly once again. So when you think somebody is doing well, sometimes you have to hold your decision on that. You have to hold your statements."

Hay

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haydayhayday

(HG, glad to see you're back. I noticed that your meme with Merkel is gone. I also noticed that my posting of it and commenting on it is also gone. Out of my sight, too. I had nothing to do with either of those actions... which means, I suspect, that our host doesn't like one of the people whose name was mentioned in the meme. Good to know, I think. Good policy, I think, too.)

Hay

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HamiltonGardener

Might find a few bumps in the road along the way.


I agree with that. Australia has a population that is almost entirely unexposed to the virus. Any exposure will cause an outbreak. There will be bumps along the way.

But as long as they can flattened the curve, keep their hospitals under capacity, that’s what the plan has been all along.


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patriciae_gw(07)

Hay, this is not about you.

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blfenton

Other pesky little stats as mentioned by a poster upthread and ignored by trump - Total cases/million pop in Israel 7716, in Japan 272, and in Australia 662 but in the US 14,208. And then we have total deaths/million pop - Israel 56, Japan 8, Australia 8 and in the US 473.

trump just dealing in deflection and lies by omission. He's just throwing crumbs to his supporters, if they even listened to his speech.

ETA - too bad that trump has never had a plan

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HamiltonGardener

I had nothing to do with either of those actions.


I don’t think you are the type to delete things, it’s all good.


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haydayhayday

Repeating my post from way up above:

////////////////////////////////////////////////

He's right. There is a resurgence happening.

It's a point I like to make, too. Which is that, we're basically in the first half of the first inning of a ball game and you want to make statements about who is going to win the game.

The horses have just broken out of the start gate and you've already declared the winner!

Hay

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haydayhayday

"Hay, this is not about you."

Bread and Circus.

The masses love it.

Hay

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haydayhayday

"I don’t think you are the type to delete things, it’s all good."

Not really an issue. Mostly thought it was interesting about WHY I think it's gone. Good to know, I think, for future reference.

Hay


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HamiltonGardener

I’m not sure why. Lots of things mention Trump, so cant be that.

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haydayhayday

Fantasy:

blfenton:

"trump just dealing in deflection and lies by omission. He's just throwing crumbs to his supporters, if they even listened to his speech."


Youngquinn:

"he is trying to say

Look the virus is no worse here than anywhere else (meaning America) see its happening everywhere you cant blame me !!"

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

These are his actual words:

"This resurgence in cases is occurring throughout large portions of our planet — in Japan, China, Australia, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Hong Kong — places where they thought they'd really done great," he said.

"It came back, and in a couple of cases came back very strongly. The virus was said to be under control but new cases have risen very significantly once again. So when you think somebody is doing well, sometimes you have to hold your decision on that. You have to hold your statements."

Pretty straightforward and all very true.

Hay



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haydayhayday

"I’m not sure why. Lots of things mention Trump, so cant be that."

It mentioned a certain prominent man born in Austria. Just a guess and speculation on my part. I think it's reasonable all around.


Hay

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haydayhayday

Something that I was thinking today.

Many of us are gardeners. How many times do we carefully weed our garden, go away for a week, come back and it's full of weeds again?

I think the virus will do that to us for a while.

Hay

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HamiltonGardener

Ah, right.

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HamiltonGardener

Hay,

Depends on whether humans are the gardeners or the virus is the gardener.

Humans look at it as weeding the virus.

The virus sees it as thinning the humans.

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haydayhayday

Virus' can't see.

They're like weeds.

In my garden, the weeds never really go away.

Resurgence all Summer long.

Hay

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terezosa / terriks

As to the weeding analogy, if you stay on top of it and pull weeds every day, you can keep your garden virtually weed free.

Similar with a virus, keep vigilant and extinguish outbreaks early to keep the spread down.

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youngquinn_gw

Hay are you aware that you are constantly looping the same comments?

early in this thread you tried to use Victoria's population figures in combination with Australias covid 19 statistics and didnt like it when i didnt let you get away with that. a number of posters repeatedly post shots of red lines and call them graphs. In no instances are there any numbers on the left axis of these graphs.....you cannot compare the graphs for USA and Australia when the graphs CLEARLY have different gradations. this is an attempt to befuddle that is worthy of the Great beffuddler in the white house.. (I have promoted him from Bozo)

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haydayhayday

Youngquinn in the OP:


"The virus is back in Victoria...not in Australia. it is in one state.

lets get the statistics shall we?"

So, I got the statistics.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Youngquinn:

"a number of posters repeatedly post shots of red lines and call them graphs. In no instances are there any numbers on the left axis of these graphs.....you cannot compare the graphs for USA and Australia when the graphs CLEARLY have different gradations."

I'm not trying to compare any graphs for USA and Australia. That's you and some others around here.

The graphs I post stand alone and they're meant to show what I thought was the point of Trump's statements. That is, that there is a resurgence in Australia.

The "red" graph for Australia illustrates the same point. You don't need the numbers on the left axis to recognize a "resurgence".

Hay

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haydayhayday

It took me a while to figure out that, even though Trump was very clearly talking about "resurgence" and that was the lead in to the story, that was not THE POINT you were wanting to discuss.

Fine. now I know.

" Hay's comments come despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successive polls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."

Hay

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haydayhayday

Youngquinn:

"he is saying that the virus has "come back" to Australia.

He is correct"

We all agree.

" Hay's comments come despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successive polls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."


Hay

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haydayhayday

Youngquinn:

"he is saying that the virus has "come back" to Australia.

He is correct"

In bold red colors:


" Hay's comments come despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successive polls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."

Feel free to put some numbers on the left axis if it makes any difference to you. Won't change a thing in illustrating that Trump was right when he said:




"This resurgence in cases is occurring throughout large portions of our planet — in Japan, China, Australia, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Hong Kong — places where they thought they'd really done great," he said.

"It came back, and in a couple of cases came back very strongly. The virus was said to be under control but new cases have risen very significantly once again. So when you think somebody is doing well, sometimes you have to hold your decision on that. You have to hold your statements."


If you want to add and focus on this from the article, fine with me.


"Trump's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successive polls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."

Now I know. Doesn't negate THE POINT TRUMP WAS MAKING.


Hay

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haydayhayday

Took me a while to really see that I was pretty much the only one who actually thought the conversation was about what Trump actually said. As shown in the article's video and the article's quotes from the video.

Now I know.

Hay

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youngquinn_gw

no he is not saying that....he is deflecting....just as he is deflecting when he refers to Covid 19 as "The China Virus" and the way he purses his little mouth to spit out the words.

He is deflecting

because that is what he does

.

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jmm1837

The conversation was about Trump's attempt at manipulation. Sorry you missed that.

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tropicbreezent

Interesting how Trump seems to be up to date with all the covid statistics in countries around the world, but oblivious to what's happening in the US.

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haydayhayday

Trump: (You can hear his very words in the video that youngquinn posted):

"This resurgence in cases is occurring throughout large portions of our planet — in Japan, China, Australia, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Hong Kong — places where they thought they'd really done great," he said.

"It came back, and in a couple of cases came back very strongly. The virus was said to be under control but new cases have risen very significantly once again. So when you think somebody is doing well, sometimes you have to hold your decision on that. You have to hold your statements."


Youngquinn:

"he is saying that the virus has "come back" to Australia.

He is correct"


The facts in bold red colors:



Youngquinn again:

"no he is not saying that"


Hay:

"FUNNY!!!!!"

Hay


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haydayhayday

jmm:

"The conversation was about Trump's attempt at manipulation. "

Facts speaking for themselves:


Hay:

"REALLY FUNNY!!!!"

Hay

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haydayhayday

Meanwhile, in other news:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-worlds-covid-resurgence-11595978652


The World’s Covid Resurgence

Countries hailed as models see a virus case revival.


https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/asia-covid-resurgence-shatters-travel-bubble-hopes


Asia COVID Resurgence Shatters Travel Bubble Hopes



https://www.reuters.com/article/china-stocks-midday/china-stocks-flat-in-choppy-trade-virus-resurgence-weighs-idUSL3N2F21RM


China stocks flat in choppy trade, virus resurgence weighs


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/yum-china-says-virus-resurgence-in-china-hit-q2-sales-2020-07-29


Yum China says virus resurgence in China hit Q2 sales


https://www.tv7israelnews.com/israel-reenacts-partial-closure-over-virus-resurgence/


Israel reenacts partial closure over virus resurgence


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53589817


Coronavirus: Australia's Victoria records huge case jump

The resurgence of the virus in Australia has been centred in Melbourne


https://www.vox.com/2020/7/10/21317918/australia-melbourne-victoria-coronavirus-covid-19-lockdown


Australia was a coronavirus success story. Now, an outbreak is prompting new lockdowns.


To contain the new resurgence, Australia...


https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-back-with-a-vengeance-in-places-where-it-had-all-but-vanished-11595842202


Coronavirus Is Back With a Vengeance in Places Where It Had All but Vanished


Hong Kong, Japan and Australia are seeing new waves of infections after relaxing Covid-19 restrictions


https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/australian-virus-resurgence-forces-suspension-of-parliament-12943556


Australian virus resurgence forces suspension of parliament



https://www.news18.com/news/world/a-resurgence-millions-of-australians-back-to-covid-19-lockdown-after-new-outbreak-in-melbourne-2710969.html


A Resurgence: Millions of Australians Back to Covid-19 Lockdown After New Outbreak in Melbourne

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/08/ffde3ea797f6-breaking-news-tokyo-reports-472-coronavirus-infections-new-record-high.html

Japan reports over 1,000 infections for 4th day as virus resurges

Hay

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jmm1837

I say again, this is about Trump's effort to manipulate perspective.

"It’s what it is, is a plague, but also to come up with therapeutics and vaccines and we’re making a lot of strides. All over the world, they’re having tremendous problems. Resurgence has taken place in many countries that people thought were doing well."

First, he says "we" are making strides. Then, he says "they" are having tremendous problems. This is a total distortion of the actual position. The US is not making strides: its experiencing an uncontrolled spread of the disease, it has no effective treatment, and is not any further ahead than anyone else in developing a vaccine. The situation in the US is approaching catastrophic. Relative to what is happening there, the resurgence of the virus in other countries is not the "tremendous" picture he paints, simply because all those increases he cites come from a low base.

The same can be said for all your charts.

Both of you are choosing to distort perception by providing cherry picked data rather than a complete perspective. You continue with your straw man arguments of trying to argue the reality of a resurgence, which is not the issue. The issue is Trump's distortion of the extent of that resurgence in relation to the position of the US.

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bleusblue2

jmm1837

"I say again, this is about Trump's effort to manipulate perspective.

....< >....

Both of you are choosing to distort perception by providing cherry picked data rather than a complete perspective. You continue wuth your straw man arguments of trying to argue the reality of a resurgance, which is not the issue. The issue is Trump's distortion of the extent of that resurgance in relation to the position of the US."

~~~

jmm --- I agree. And may I also repeat -- statistics, data, have a place, can be useful. But why play with numbers? If the numbers are so fine why do some states order REFRIGERATOR TRUCKS because the morgues are overflowing with the dead? Is that fact reflected in a statistic?

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colleenoz

You may as well give up, jmm. When you argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

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arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Hay has carpet bombed this thread, I do not know if this is a deliberate tactic or if he has a different way of thinking.

The word was out in February, it was coming, it was was very infective, but not as infective as measles. The large public hospital nearby closed all its day clinics.

The warning (I think was widespread around the world) my source was a CSIRO Scientist.

Some countries decided to wait and see, others took immediate action. History will say which course of action was better.


NSW Australia latest Stats

Set of stats that make sense.....,"it" is still lurking.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Great statement Coleen. Love it.

and

It is called being Hayed. Sometimes there seems to be a point somewhere. I seldom SOB but.....he is entitled to his pov what ever it is though.

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youngquinn_gw

Hay are you aware that you are saying the same thing....ad nauseum?

If you go back and read my opening post you will find that you are hammering a point that is not in dispute

"

he is saying that the virus has "come back" to Australia.


He is correct......well a little bit.

The virus is back in Victoria..."

Jmm1837 says it best

"No one has said there isn't a resurgence of the virus in Australia, or
for that matter in the other countries Trump listed in his speech. That
is a classic straw man argument, actually, in which you are providing
stats to disprove a claim that no one made, while ignoring the actual
point that was being made."


AND AGAIN "

I say again, this is about Trump's effort to manipulate perspective.

"It’s what it is, is a plague, but also to come up with therapeutics
and vaccines and we’re making a lot of strides. All over the world,
they’re having tremendous problems. Resurgence has taken place in many
countries that people thought were doing well."

First, he says "we" are making strides. Then, he says "they" are
having tremendous problems. This is a total distortion of the actual
position. The US is not making strides: its experiencing an uncontrolled
spread of the disease, it has no effective treatment, and is not any
further ahead than anyone else in developing a vaccine. The situation in
the US is approaching catastrophic. Relative to what is happening
there, the resurgence of the virus in other countries is not the
"tremendous" picture he paints, simply because all those increases he
cites come from a low base.

The same can be said for all your charts.

Both of you are choosing to distort perception by providing cherry
picked data rather than a complete perspective. You continue with your
straw man arguments of trying to argue the reality of a resurgence,
which is not the issue. The issue is Trump's distortion of the extent of
that resurgence in relation to the position of the US."


see Hay trump is aligning himself with the "Winners" to impress his uneducated base.....he is manilpulating the "we" and the "them" to put himself with the winners.

he is trying to make a favourable comparison between the USA and the Ist wave winning nations....to make it seem that what is happening in USA is just "what happens" and he is going to make a wonderful vaccine NEXT WEEK and get it manufactured in record time and it will all be wonderful and he will "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN" and make all the non thinkers believe that he has it all under control.



and THAT is what the thread is about.


(as a side issue for anyone who is interested VIctoria is about to announce level 4 lockdown everything closed and Government funds keeping things afloat. The federal and State Governments will work together as BOTH have acknowledged that there can be no economic recovery while we are groaning under the burden of this virus. We have removed hundreds of elderly sick people from nursing homes into hospital and are accepting the Federal Governments offer of ADF personnel. Lets hope we can get on top of this)

Thanks for your input into this thread Jmm you put things very succinctly

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haydayhayday

Two days ago:

"I think we all agree?

Trump was right when he said:

"This resurgence in cases is occurring throughout large portions of our planet — in Japan, China, Australia, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Hong Kong — places where they thought they'd really done great," he said.


"It came back, and in a couple of cases came back very strongly. The virus was said to be under control but new cases have risen very significantly once again. So when you think somebody is doing well, sometimes you have to hold your decision on that. You have to hold your statements."

And this is also true:

"Trump's comments came despite America having the highest number of infections and deaths in the world, with successive polls showing widespread disapproval over his mishandling of the crisis."

...


For a while I was fooled into thinking we might actually be talking about something that Trump actually said in the lead up.


Guess not

Now I know"

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

What more do you want?

Hay


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haydayhayday

Moving on:


Two days ago:


Today:

Hay


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haydayhayday

Moving on:

Today's news:

////////////////////////////////////

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53627038

"Coronavirus: Victoria declares state of disaster after spike in cases

On Sunday, the state reported 671 new coronavirus cases and seven deaths.

...

Melbourne residents will only be allowed to shop and exercise within 5 km of their home. Exercise outside of the home will only be allowed for one hour at a time.


...

To ensure these rules are observed, police will be given additional powers, Mr Andrews said.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/02/victoria-stage-4-restrictions-melbourne-lockdown-rules-covid-19-vic-four-victorian


"You cannot have visitors or go to another person’s house unless it is for the purpose of giving or receiving care. You can leave your house to visit a person if you are in an “intimate personal relationship” with them, even during curfew hours. That is, there is no “bonk ban”.


If your partner lives outside Melbourne and/or 5km of your home you can still visit them.


...

Brothels and strip clubs will also shut


...


Exercise can only happen within 5km of home, and must be in metropolitan Melbourne. Exercise is limited to one hour, once per day.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Hay





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colleenoz

Actually, that last picture is incorrect: there were groups organised both by the government and local charities to ferry truckloads of free food and medical supplies into the public housing tower blocks daily. The pictures also don't say that the reason those tower blocks were locked down is because they were identified as having a large proportion of Covid-infected residents who had to be quarantined.

So Hay, can you find any news stories or pictures of places in the US (which still has about six times the number of people dying daily from Covid as Australia has had since March) which are working assertively to prevent the further spread of Covid outbreaks? I dare you.

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haydayhayday

Moving on:

From Annie's link:

https://www.endcoronavirus.org/

From around the world:



Hay

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haydayhayday


Hay

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HamiltonGardener

Given the number of asymptomatic people, people who are mild cases, countries that are or were not testing everyone, etc. I don’t think current infection rate is a good indicator.

Are there graphs for death rates instead? A country that got a handle on its death rate is one that is successfully handling this crisis.

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haydayhayday

"Are there graphs for death rates instead? A country that got a handle on its death rate is one that is successfully handling this crisis."

That gets tricky, too.

The Northeast USA was THE Hot Spot in the very early days of the pandemic arriving to our shores.

We knew basically nothing about anything at that time.....

I've seen estimates that about 50% of the deaths that occurred in those early days in Connecticut and Massachusetts were in Nursing Homes.

Today, all across the nation, they're getting better at dealing with the risks in Nursing Homes and it's the young people who are getting it. Young people don't die at anywhere near the rate that old people in nursing homes do.

Hay

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haydayhayday



Hay

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how2girl

Or not.

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haydayhayday


Hay

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haydayhayday


how2girl:

"Or not."

Or not what?

Hay

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how2girl

colleenoz

Actually, that last picture is incorrect: there were groups organised both by the government and local charities to ferry truckloads of free food and medical supplies into the public housing tower blocks daily. The pictures also don't say that the reason those tower blocks were locked down is because they were identified as having a large proportion of Covid-infected residents who had to be quarantined.

So Hay, can you find any news stories or pictures of places in the US (which still has about six times the number of people dying daily from Covid as Australia has had since March) which are working assertively to prevent the further spread of Covid outbreaks? I dare you.

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haydayhayday

"I dare you."

I dare you to go jump off a cliff.

Or not.

Funny.

Hay


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youngquinn_gw

I guess I will keep repeating this until you aknowlege that you have understood.

from Jmm1837

"

Jmm1837 says it best

"No one has said there isn't a resurgence of the virus in Australia, or
for that matter in the other countries Trump listed in his speech. That
is a classic straw man argument, actually, in which you are providing
stats to disprove a claim that no one made, while ignoring the actual
point that was being made."

so you are in a loop of "proving" things which are not in dipute.


the issue is that trump is implying that the situation is worse than it is in Australia in order to "soothe" his followers. He is implying that everyone is in the same boat.



everyone is not in the same boat...believe me.


One state in Australia is experiencing a second wave

AMERICA IS YET TO DIG ITSELF OUT OF THE FIRST WAVE !

The total number of Australian Covid deaths to 2 august 2020 is

..............202......... thats it after almost 6 months

America has that many daily deaths BEFORE BREAKFAST.


yes you see a lot of activity in Melbourne Victoria....that is becasue we are doing our utmost to suppress this virus. We are now in stage 4 lockdown with an 8pm curfew and not permitted to travel more than 5 kilometres from our homes.


we can only shop for one hour per day and only one person from each household..we are taking these steps in order to limit interactions between people and hopefully curb community transmissions


now Hay.......dont you wish that America had taken the same steps?


The cases in Victoria started from such a low base that it is MISLEADING of trump to imply that America and Australia are in the same situation.


America is in a shocking Covid situation and trump is trying to distance himself from the fallout. He is manipulating the situation.....

I cannot be more blunt than that. Please stop trying to prove something that has not been disputed



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youngquinn_gw

one thing I forgot to mention....your last graph.....you will note the numbers on the left axis.....the highest daily new deaths in Australia (due to Covid19) is 13. it looks very high....but of course when you look at teh numbers you will note that its a very small number...made to look big by faking the numbers. By comparison the preceding graph which lists American deaths is numbered by the thousands..

and yet side by side they look the same. that is what I mean by misleading

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haydayhayday

"I guess I will keep repeating this until you aknowlege that you have understood."

Funny.

Have fun.

Hay




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youngquinn_gw

so you dont understand then...that explains a lot

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haydayhayday

Moving on.

Have fun.

Hay

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lurker111

the issue is that trump is implying that the situation is worse
than it is in Australia in order to "soothe" his followers. He is
implying that everyone is in the same boat.

To be honest, Trump supporters aren't that interested in Australia. Nice opals from Lightning Ridge...My 1919 Dunklings Rolex is pretty nice. It still has the original sticker on it. I have a nice 1690 verge fusee pocket watch with a calendar that came from Australia, but it was made in England. I purchased a lot of the pocket watch movements from Ferntree Gully Watch and Clock. Cleaned out everything he had at the time.

BTW, the graphs are fine. I don't think anyone will have any problems understanding what they see.

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HamiltonGardener

Hay,

Yes, worldometer is good. With the 7 day tend line turned on is probably best.

UPSWING:

PLATEAU:


RESURGENCE:


UNDER CONTROL:

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haydayhayday

Where is the link for those, HG?


I don't see exactly that at Worldometer.

Thanks


Hay

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youngquinn_gw

deaths per million of population USA477 Australia 8

(for lurker and hay...that means that there are 477 Americans dead for every million of population in the country)

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HamiltonGardener

Same place as you got your last ones, Hay

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


If you go to the chart, you can click on the 7 or 3 day trend and click off the daily

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HamiltonGardener

Hay, here where I highlighted



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haydayhayday

"misleading"


Funny.

More like,

misfollowing

Hay


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haydayhayday

I'll see if I can find it, HG.

Thanks.

Hay

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haydayhayday

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Still confused, but that's OK.

Thinking maybe maybe maybe it could be because we're using different devices to access?

It's OK if you don't want to pursue it. I just don't see it there.

Hay

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HamiltonGardener

Ok, now click the “daily” radio button off, see where I highlighted below



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lurker111

Thanks youngquinn. I'm not having any problems with reading the charts or understanding the numbers. I'm not at all happy with how the left is ignoring the rules and protesting across the country. I've been isolated since March while the crats are having a riot. Almost half a year because the crats won't behave. Not really a problem because most everything I like to do, I can do on my property. I still have plenty of food, but I do get bread and ice cream delivered every once in awhile. The only things that really changed for me is not having company, and not having to go shopping. This could be the new normal and I wouldn't miss a thing. I do need to get my Houston properties sold. That's about all I'm waiting on.

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haydayhayday

Thanks, HG,

While you were posting, I also went back and figured out what I was missing.

Thanks.

Hay

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HamiltonGardener

No problem.

Our charts may look a little different in slope still because I’m posting from my phone. If I turn it sideways, it looks like yours. I hold it upright, it compresses the chart, slope becomes tighter.

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haydayhayday

Thanks.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Notice:

I got some real work to do.

Unfortunately.

Been fun.

See you later.

Hay

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jmm1837

How very tedious. Dozens of charts from Hay, all simply amplifying Trump's attempted deflection.


For the non Aussies here, the state of Victoria has just gone into stage 4 lockdown precisely because the Premier wants to avoid ending up in an American-style scenario. Unlike the President of the US and the governors of California and Georgia, he is not throwing his hands in the air, saying "it's a plague" and hoping for a miracle future cure while people die in the present. He actually wants to stop the spread of the disease (and save some lives along the way) and is prepared to risk his political future by doing so. And unlike the US again, the state is getting cooperation and support from the federal government even though the Premier and the PM are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.


For Trump to even suggest that the US situation, a product in no small part of his inertia, is in any way comparable to the efforts being put in place here and in Japan, Germany etc to quell the resurgence is laughable.

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bleusblue2

jmm1837

He actually wants to stop the spread of the disease (and save some lives along the way) and is prepared to risk his political future by doing so. And unlike the US again, the state is getting cooperation and support from the federal government even though the Premier and the PM are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

For Trump to even suggest that the US situation, a product in no small part of his inertia, is in any way comparable to the efforts being put in place here and in Japan, Germany etc to quell the resurgence is laughable.

~~~

Right, jmm! -- so unlike the US -- where the President's team enlisted to prepare a Strategy -- five months in!!!! -- decided it's better to let the people in States with Democrat Governors struggle on -- that way, the President can blame the GOVERNORS for the ilness and deaths that ensue. Why should they be helped at the expense of his campaign for a second term. He has labelled the opposition party TRAITORS.. Trump probably thinks that makes him a true American patriot. What a bunch of criminals -- who dares call them anything else?

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mrskjun(9)

Do you realize what our death toll would be if some governors did not send Covid patients back into nursing homes?

Can you say half of 150 thousand? And you want to blame that on Trump? Of course you do!!

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jmm1837

mrskjun - what did Trump do to alleviate the spread of the disease? What action did he take to discourage the protests against lockdowns and mask wearing right from the start? What guidance has he provided to the states and to the general public? Where is the quarantining of people arriving from overseas? Why is the disease claiming 200 to 300 lives a day in Texas and Florida, with case numbers still soaring, 6 months in? Do I blame Trump for every death? No, certainly not. Do I blame him for the shambolic response in the US. Indeed I do.

Edit: By the way, about half the deaths in Florida are occurring in aged care homes. That kind of suggests to me that the problem is not restricted to Cuomo's bad decision, but to Trump's failure to make any decisions at all.

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mrskjun(9)

What would you have done differently jmm?

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jmm1837

I'd have done what other countries did: get mass testing and contact tracing underway in January, not March; close the borders to people who'd been in infected countries, not just to citizens of those countries, and impose mandatory self isolation on the travelers; set up science-based guidelines for the states and actually listen to what the medical experts were saying; support the governors who wanted firm lockdowns instead of encouraging them to open up early and backing the anti-lockdown protesters; wear a mask to set an example for the public; ignore junk science like the fad for hydroxychloroquine; knock the southern governors into line when the numbers started ballooning, instead of demanding that schools reopen in the middle of a pandemic. There are plenty of other things, but the one thing I'd have want to do was show some leadership. Others managed it. Trump, not a whisper of it.

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mrskjun(9)

"It is impossible to overestimate the number of American lives saved by that momentous decision by President Trump on January 31. And no media or Pelosi false narratives or phony Biden campaign ad can change the truth about the real chronology of the coronavirus."

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/31/the-real-coronavirus-chronology-shows-trump-was-on-top-of-it-while-biden-was-mocking-the-danger/

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jmm1837

Your article is an interesting cherry-picking of dates. The real chronology is that the world knew the disease was human to human transmission by Jan 22. WHO told them so.

https://www.who.int/china/news/detail/22-01-2020-field-visit-wuhan-china-jan-2020

Germany had testing going on Jan 17 and Australia on Jan 21. The US didn't get mass testing going until mid March by which time it had admitted tens of thousands of people from epicenters not only in China but Europe as well.

Closing the borders only works if you then track down everyone who's been in China (and Europe) and quarantine them, and if you put contact tracing in place. Other countries had that going six weeks before the US. The disease got a foothold in the US because of the snail-like pace to testing there and the total lack of urgency displayed by Trump. The lives Trump might have saved have been thrown away by the failure to manage the original influx of cases.

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cattyles

Jmm, save your sanity. Thank you for your effort.

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jmm1837

After a few months of this, I'm not sure I have much sanity left to save! ;-)

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cattyles

Pace yourself! 😊

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studio10001

mrs., what governors do not have elderly covid patients in nursing homes, pray tell?

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lurker111

Jmm, save your sanity. Thank you for your effort.

After a few months of this, I'm not sure I have much sanity left to save! ;-)

No comment.

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haydayhayday


Hay

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haydayhayday

Monday morning quarterback

PRONUNCIATION:

(MUHN-day MOR-ning KWOR-tuhr-bak)


MEANING:

noun: One who criticizes others’ actions and offers alternatives with the benefit of hindsight.

Hay


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haydayhayday

"But Monday mornin', you gave me no warnin' of what was to be"

Hindsight is 20/20.

Foresight is a little more difficult.

Today in Australia:

Hay

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lurker111

Lockdown the criminals instead of telling the people to lockdown while releasing the criminals to roam the streets. There's a thought. Goes to show how stupid the crats are. If I ran a prison, the prisoners would have been confined to their cells. No exceptions. Allowing them to go free would never be an option.

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haydayhayday

What other Aussies are saying:



https://www.theage.com.au/national/new-ama-head-warns-of-significant-crisis-in-train-wreck-victoria-20200803-p55hyr.html


New AMA head warns of 'significant crisis' in 'train wreck' Victoria


The newly-elected president of the Australian Medical Association has warned Victoria’s hospitals are "rapidly getting to the point of significant crisis" as they begin struggling to find enough doctors and nurses to fill shifts.

...


"I think there is a sense of frustration that we could see this train wreck coming and not enough was done to avert it," Dr Khorshid said.


"I think the public health response, I think everyone will acknowledge, has been sub-par.


...


"We were too lax in terms of how quickly we got back to normality. A lot of us decided 'Oh, we're over this' and we went out shopping and basically thought the problem was over."


//////////////////////////////////////////


https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/solomon-lew-decries-government-inaction-as-retail-shutdown-announced-20200803-p55hz6.html


Mr Lew, who operates stores such as Smiggle, Just Jeans, JayJays and Dotti under his Premier Investments business, said that, while the steps taken were the right choice, the government should have moved more quickly.


"While this is the right step, acting sooner could have prevented a lot of illness and unnecessary deaths. Delaying has only placed further pressure on the rest of the country and the national economy," Mr Lew said.

///////////////////////////////////


https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/prisoners-to-be-relocated-after-positive-tests-linked-to-court-building-20200803-p55i4m.html



Prisoners to be relocated after positive tests linked to court building


Prison authorities are trying to relocate people being held in a custody centre underneath the Melbourne Magistrates Court building after two positive coronavirus tests.


Victoria Police, which manages the centre, confirmed two staff had tested positive at the weekend and that the centre was now in lockdown for a deep clean.

Hay

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haydayhayday






Hay


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haydayhayday

"Yeah, yeah, but what about Trump!?"


TDS has reached the shores of Australia.

Double Whammy.



Hay

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lurker111

TDS has reached the shores of Australia.

That's obvious just from reading this forum.

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barncatz

Precisely what jmm is saying- How the Pandemic Defeated America:

...

Being prepared means being ready to spring into action, “so that when something like this happens, you’re moving quickly,” Ronald Klain, who coordinated the U.S. response to the West African Ebola outbreak in 2014, told me. “By early February, we should have triggered a series of actions, precisely zero of which were taken.” Trump could have spent those crucial early weeks mass-producing tests to detect the virus, asking companies to manufacture protective equipment and ventilators, and otherwise steeling the nation for the worst. Instead, he focused on the border. On January 31, Trump announced that the U.S. would bar entry to foreigners who had recently been in China, and urged Americans to avoid going there.

Travel bans make intuitive sense, because travel obviously enables the spread of a virus. But in practice, travel bans are woefully inefficient at restricting either travel or viruses. They prompt people to seek indirect routes via third-party countries, or to deliberately hide their symptoms. They are often porous: Trump’s included numerous exceptions, and allowed tens of thousands of people to enter from China. Ironically, they create travel: When Trump later announced a ban on flights from continental Europe, a surge of travelers packed America’s airports in a rush to beat the incoming restrictions. Travel bans may sometimes work for remote island nations, but in general they can only delay the spread of an epidemic—not stop it. And they can create a harmful false confidence, so countries “rely on bans to the exclusion of the things they actually need to do—testing, tracing, building up the health system,” says Thomas Bollyky, a global-health expert at the Council on Foreign Relations. “That sounds an awful lot like what happened in the U.S.”

...
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/coronavirus-american-failure/614191/

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studio10001

I don't agree w blanket criticism of travel bans, for the very reason given - they can slow the spread, if done in a coordinated manner. Our lack of coordination has been key from the get.

I've been interested to see that the mask mandates here are now being enforced by Big Business, rather than government. Who's your Daddy? Sam Walton, apparently.

Sam was also the first relief on the scene in Katrina, as a side note.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

What would you have done differently jmm?

As trump Mrskjun? ....Well, for one thing not be a cheerleader and be the Quarterback the country needed. He pissed away valuable time downplaying the virus (it's under control, just 15 cases soon to be zero, It will disappear like a miracle by April, warm weather will make it vanish like the flu, everyone will be back in church by Easter, and on and on...) Face it, trump gambled that he didn't have to do much of anything and it would simply go away. He lost that bet.

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lurker111

Ridiculous blather. ^^^

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youngquinn_gw

Australia has around 7500 active cases...if that is a catastrophie what is America which has around 2,500,000 cases?

hay has , as usual posted pics and graphs of the terrible situation in Victoria

we had 13 deaths today yep. 13.

and we have gone into stage 4 lockdown with most business and industry shut down for 6 weeks...only supermarkets, chemists post offices banks petrol stations and newsagents allowed to open. We cannot be more than 5 kilometres from our homes (Unless we are an essential worker)and are only allowed out for one hour per day to excercise or food shop...and only one person per home can do the shopping.

and we are under curfew


and all this because we had 13 deaths and 380 cases. its true cases have been rising and we have had a couple of days of 700 cases.

this is because this is what you HAVE TO DO to get it back under control.


the PM and the Premier are CO OPERATING.

TO American eyes it would look as if the sky is falling butthat is because , in the main you do not have lederships who are prepared on most levels to invest the effort to try and bring the virus under control

no matter how many pics Hay posts the fact remains that we have had 210 approx deaths in 6 months...

oh yes and another thing.....from thursday ALL MEATWORKERS will e dressed in full HOSPITAL GRADE ppe FOR ALL SHIFTS AND SHIFTS HAVE BEEN REDUCED by 33% they will also have their emps taken every shift.


NOW Hay dont you wish you had leadershiop who would take such care and show such committment to the American population?

I dont hold out much hope of getting a response to my post from the main protagonist.....that would require grace .


Hay appears unable to grasp that he is continually "proving" something which has not been disputed while he ignores the subject of this thread.



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gettingnowhere

The president is doing the best he can with what he has. One cannot expect anyone but to do their best and this is exactly what is happening and expected. Nothing more to be done at this point, right?

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Nana H

YQ, Australia has done an excellent job in containing the virus, hopefully the terrible situation in Victoria will be brought under control soon. Hats off to the people and leaders of Australia for having the courage to do what has to be done even though it's tough.

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Nana H

gettingnowhere, what president are you talking about?

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studio10001

The US may not be able to develop a national strategy until next year, but local officials are paying attention to AU, and your measures may yet do us some good. Thanks for sharing this.

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gettingnowhere

@Nana, Trump of course.

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Nana H

You think Trump is doing the best he can? You may be right on that.........I don't think he is capable of doing any better.

edited

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gettingnowhere

@Nana, the best he can, with what he has...But I am pleased that our leaders have more, so they are able to deal with the virus much more efficiently.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Ridiculous blather. ^^^

Trump's past quotes, indeed lurker, just blather, it's what he does best, or worst.

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Nana H

...I think I need the /sarc

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blfenton

Our numbers are going up as well and after the beautiful August long weekend that we just had I expect them to go even higher in the coming 2-3 weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if our Public Health Officer reinstated some previous mandates that we are out of having to follow. People are just being stupid. But if you give them a centimetre they'll take a kilometre.

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lurker111

Trump's past quotes, indeed lurker, just blather, it's what he does best, or worst.

I know you are but what am I? ^^^

I dont hold out much hope of getting a response to my post from the main protagonist.....that would require grace .

We aren't Australia. If Trump tried to lockdown the country, the crats would have him on a silver platter. A little something called State Rights. He could declare martial law...I'm all for it.

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Nana H

bf, I am very worried about Toronto which went into phase 3 Friday. Hoping for the best but very concerned about the bar and restaurant scene. I know though that Ford will be on it. He won't put up with any back peddling. If he thinks we are headed to a resurgence I don't think he would hesitate to roll back.

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lurker111

Is Canada having pandemic protests? It will be interesting to see what happens without them.

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blfenton

sorry lurker

It will be interesting to see what happens without them.

Without what? What does them refer to? (Not being snarky, just want to make sure what "them" is referring to.

Vancouver had an anti-mask protest a couple of weeks ago which went no where. But big pandemic protests? not that I'm aware of. There has been a couple of news reports about individuals not wearing masks when required but nothing on a large scale, at least not where I live.


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youngquinn_gw

"We aren't Australia. If Trump tried to lockdown the country, the crats
would have him on a silver platter. A little something called State
Rights." from Lurker

Our Prime Minister did not "declare" anything....the Victoria premier did and the PM from the other said of the political spectrum supported him providing pandemic payments and ADF troops and ADF nurses etc. It is so civilised.....to not try and make political mileage out of the pandemic and the deaths of many citizens

if you are caught without your mask over here ...outside your home it is a $1650 fine...you dont pay and you will find yourself in court paying out $10000. No one over here has the right to put others lives at risk.

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Ziemia(6a)

Australia had 13 Covid-19 deaths yesterday?

Florida had more. Florida has 73 so far today.

PS: the nay sayers here ignore all facts that don't support Donnie's inactions. They present opinions that use selected events.

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lurker111

Without what? What does them refer to?

Seriously? It refers to my comment in the previous sentence. "Them" are the pandemic protests.

to not try and make political mileage out of the pandemic and the deaths of many citizens

You need to talk to the crats because they are the ones trying very hard to do that. They are uncivilized and unwilling to cooperate. They are all acting in bad faith and with ill intent.

There has been a couple of news reports about individuals not wearing
masks when required but nothing on a large scale, at least not where I
live.

Cool. We'll use Canada as an experiment. If you guys manage to pull off a safe reopening, that will settle a lot of issues.

We have rules on crowd sizes, but the pandemic protesters don't care about our laws.

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bleusblue2

gettingnowhere

@Nana, the best he can, with what he has...But I am pleased that our leaders have more, so they are able to deal with the virus much more efficiently.

~~~

"with what he has" -- sure -- the United States is a third world country with very few resources or educated people to step up to the plate in the crisis. Poor President Trump, confronted with a crisis, he only had access to papier mache and macrame technology and not a single educated health expert to invite on his team. /sarcasm\

how does the cult continue to live the dodo that occupies a seat in the Oval Office ?

ETA -- I presume I am offering a sarcastic response to a sarcastic comment. Maybe they cancel each other out?

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youngquinn_gw

no lurker.... your President is doing that.

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lurker111

lol. Whatever.

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barncatz

Just listened to Dr. Osterholm, he is saying the only way to control this now is exactly what youngquinn describes in their post. It is past testing, past tracing now - some areas should be shutting back down.

He also talked about the harm he expects from the Sturgis rally next week.

The other thing he said that broke my heart was that 1400 health care workers have died in the US. He said that we expect that even if we get sick, someone will be there to test us or treat us. We're doing a risk analysis for ourselves and/or our families that often fails to consider the health workers.

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isabellagracepan

I am so sorry that the virus has come back to Australia, but it sounds like your government is doing a great job taking the severe steps necessary to get it under control again.

I think it is essential that both sides of your government are working together, since it is much easier to fight coronavirus as a united people with a common goal. A similar thing happened in Canada, where all three main political parties have come together to fight the virus as a united front. There was some grumbling, but ultimately the message was one of a single united Canada working to stop the virus together. It was quite heartwarming to gather around the radio each morning and listen to Trudeau's message, and I am not a Trudeau supporter usually! It felt a little bit like I imagine WW2 did, as most Canadians gathered to listen to a message of solidarity that we all needed to do our part to stop the spread of the virus.


The divisiveness in American politics right now is part of the challenge in fighting coronavirus. The message of caring about your community and neighbours only really works in the context of us all being in this together. All of the divisive rhetoric ('crats for example) really hinders the sense that America as a country is one unit that can work together to fight the virus. I really hope that unity returns to the U.S. in the future. It is nice to not hate and disparage people who vote differently than you (see some posts above where certain posters are very vitriolic in their references to the other political party). It creates a friendlier community, both on gardenweb and in real life too. In the end, we are all humans who want to live happy lives without worrying about being killed early by coronavirus. We need to work together and support each other.

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gettingnowhere

“ Cool. We'll use Canada as an experiment. If you guys manage to pull off a safe reopening, that will settle a lot of issues” If you are serious...

The issue of course, is to expect covidiots to party or gather and not follow rules. We expect some resurgence and then containment. No one wants to return to shutdown phase. Most of the country is re-opening and Ontario schools will resume in Sept. Albeit, with protocols in place. The economy is expanding as the country re-opens. Today, in Canada, there are 123 new cases. So far, so good!

We also do not want the border to re-open, it’s just not safe!

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bleusblue2

BLEUSBLEU said

We don't need to look at statistics to tell us how bad it is in the US -- seen any freezer trucks in Victoria lately? You know -- to handle the excess number of dead bodies?

HAY said
So, now you post a lie and then post something that has no relationship to the lie.

What's the point this time around?

~~~~

I just saw this post by Hay -- calling me a liar. Usually wouldn't bother but for the record -- Victoria hasn't called for freezer/refrigerated trucks to pick up the overflow of dead bodies that the morgue cannot handle. There are States in the US that have ordered freezer/refrigerated trucks because the morgue is full. My statement is exactly on point. And I'm bothering to repeat it over and over where it makes this point: Statistics are one thing. Play with them all you like. You can see those Refrigerated trucks with your own eyes and they are only there for one reason.

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bleusblue2

Nana H

bf, I am very worried about Toronto which went into phase 3 Friday. Hoping for the best but very concerned about the bar and restaurant scene. I know though that Ford will be on it. He won't put up with any back peddling. If he thinks we are headed to a resurgence I don't think he would hesitate to roll back.

~~~~

That's how I feel -- the only positive about getting to phase 3 is that the hospitals now have room for you if you get it! So I'll keep doing what I've been doing.

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Cookie8

"The other thing he said that broke my heart was that 1400 health care workers have died in the US. He said that we expect that even if we get sick, someone will be there to test us or treat us. We're doing a risk analysis for ourselves and/or our families that often fails to consider the health workers."

I have a problem with this too. The fact someone is " healthy, young, a non-believer in the virus, just can never believe it can be them affected" just go about their business with no consideration for those who have to work to serve the public every day, doing their job, whether they are in healthcare or the service industry. Their exposure risk far exceeds anything I have to expose myself to so wearing a mask and keeping a fair distance is the very least I can do. And no, I don't like wearing one but so what.

My province is fully opening schools in the fall. I guess it's a wait and see what happens...

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studio10001

There was a hospital in Fl that temp. lost 14 anesthesiologists this past week - all 14 went to a party and are now home after testing positive for covid.

I was told by a newbie yesterday that" the CDC said masks don't do anything at all, so what is your problem?"

Someone asked earlier what the president could do - stick to the notes, encourage the mask, and be an example of what to do, not who to avoid. It would show a little leadership. By the way, did he free Michigan yet?

#free45

#vote early

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ubro(2a)

Vancouver had an anti-mask protest a couple of weeks ago which went no where.

Regina had one a few weeks back, we don't have a mandatory mask regulation but they organized to prevent one, 12 people showed up.

Canada did have BLM protests.


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jmm1837

Re those photos of empty shelves posted by Hay, I was in the local supermarket yesterday and the only shortage was beef (plenty of lamb, chicken and pork) and salad greens (and the latter was due to a Covid case at a distribution center). The butcher had beef, though. We expect the meat supply chain may be a bit disrupted by the new safety requirements but no one is going to go hungry. So, our first day of total lockdown and we can still take walks in the sun, buy fresh food, and get a newspaper. And my shire has almost no covid cases, so health risks are low.

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